so one USB port not equal to other USB port

I have been having trouble with one of my USB hard disks.
It worked for some time, but not reliably.
In practice it randomly dismounted while copying files (and also when not 
copying).
After that I had to pull the power plug and reinsert it to make the drive 
mount again.

Yesterday this happened again, I got annoyed and, since the drive is still 
under a few monthes warranty, I decided to call Medion support.
This guy advised to try it on another USB port.
Initially I was sceptical but nevertheles I gave it a try. Guess what? The 
troublesome drive now seems to work like a charm! Problem solved.

But... how is this??? USB ports aren't equal? I changed over cables with the 
other USB drive, which still seems to work fine on the former "errorous" 
port.

PS both USB2 ports. No hubs.


-- 
regards,

|\  /|
| \/ |@rk
 \../
  \/os


0
Linea
3/5/2010 8:32:30 PM
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Linea Recta wrote:
> I have been having trouble with one of my USB hard disks.
> It worked for some time, but not reliably.
> In practice it randomly dismounted while copying files (and also when not 
> copying).
> After that I had to pull the power plug and reinsert it to make the drive 
> mount again.
> 
> Yesterday this happened again, I got annoyed and, since the drive is still 
> under a few monthes warranty, I decided to call Medion support.
> This guy advised to try it on another USB port.
> Initially I was sceptical but nevertheles I gave it a try. Guess what? The 
> troublesome drive now seems to work like a charm! Problem solved.
> 
> But... how is this??? USB ports aren't equal? I changed over cables with the 
> other USB drive, which still seems to work fine on the former "errorous" 
> port.
> 
> PS both USB2 ports. No hubs.
> 
> 

Is this a bus powered 2.5" USB hard drive ?

The USB port has a limit of 500mA.

The power is policed in different ways.

On my Asus desktop motherboards, a single Polyfuse is used to power
two ports in a stack. The fuse is rated at slightly more than 1 amp.
If only one USB connector in the stack is being used, the peripheral
could draw current close to that level.

On some laptops, and also some hub devices, they use a silicon solution
for USB power monitoring. You can get an 8 pin chip that will measure the
power and cut off the flow at just over 500mA (the port limit).

The two implementations differ in the limit they have in hardware.
The laptop is less likely to be forgiving, on overcurrent.

If you look at the specifications of raw 2.5" USB drives now, some
give the appearance of needing less than 500mA. In many of those
cases, the "spinup current" is not specified. On some of the older
drives, it is 5V @ 1000mA. If a newer drive doesn't state that limit,
then we don't know whether it is better than the old drives, or the
same.

Some 2.5" USB enclosures, include cabling solutions to enhance current
flow. The first kind they made, has two USB connectors for the host
end, and one USB connector on the peripheral end. The intention of that
cable, is to add the current flow from two connectors. Of the two
connectors on the host end, only one connector has the D+ and D-
data pins connected.

A second cabling solution, provides two USB cables. One is an ordinary
shielded USB2 cable. The second, has a host connector on one end, and
a barrel power connector which plugs into a 5VDC hole on the drive
enclosure. This is doing something similar to the "two headed" cable,
only providing two separate cables to do it. The two separate cables
might encourage a larger separation between the two ports used
on the computer.

There are some enclosure purchases, that include an actual 5VDC adapter
in the box. These leave nothing to the imagination, and will simply work.
But if an enclosure maker is going to shave the parts list to the bare
minimum, there is no reason to be doing it right. It's more fun if
the end-users go around, with their hard drive working half the time.

    Paul
0
Paul
3/5/2010 9:56:56 PM
"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> schreef in bericht 
news:hmrun7$hpn$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> Linea Recta wrote:
>> I have been having trouble with one of my USB hard disks.
>> It worked for some time, but not reliably.
>> In practice it randomly dismounted while copying files (and also when not 
>> copying).
>> After that I had to pull the power plug and reinsert it to make the drive 
>> mount again.
>>
>> Yesterday this happened again, I got annoyed and, since the drive is 
>> still under a few monthes warranty, I decided to call Medion support.
>> This guy advised to try it on another USB port.
>> Initially I was sceptical but nevertheles I gave it a try. Guess what? 
>> The troublesome drive now seems to work like a charm! Problem solved.
>>
>> But... how is this??? USB ports aren't equal? I changed over cables with 
>> the other USB drive, which still seems to work fine on the former 
>> "errorous" port.
>>
>> PS both USB2 ports. No hubs.
>>
>>
>
> Is this a bus powered 2.5" USB hard drive ?
>
> The USB port has a limit of 500mA.
>
> The power is policed in different ways.



No, this is a 3.5" external USB 1.1 / USB 2 / SATA drive, which has its own 
power adapter.
The power adaptor = 12V, 2A, (24W).
The drive case is Branded Medion MD 90087, but testing program HD Sentinel 
indicates Model ID ST3500820AS, which points to Seagate.



>
> On my Asus desktop motherboards, a single Polyfuse is used to power
> two ports in a stack. The fuse is rated at slightly more than 1 amp.
> If only one USB connector in the stack is being used, the peripheral
> could draw current close to that level.


The mainboard of concerning PC is Asus P4B266.


>
> On some laptops, and also some hub devices, they use a silicon solution
> for USB power monitoring. You can get an 8 pin chip that will measure the
> power and cut off the flow at just over 500mA (the port limit).
>
> The two implementations differ in the limit they have in hardware.
> The laptop is less likely to be forgiving, on overcurrent.



As opposed to using it with the PC the drive has never failed yet connected 
to the laptop (also connected by USB).



>
> If you look at the specifications of raw 2.5" USB drives now, some
> give the appearance of needing less than 500mA. In many of those
> cases, the "spinup current" is not specified. On some of the older
> drives, it is 5V @ 1000mA. If a newer drive doesn't state that limit,
> then we don't know whether it is better than the old drives, or the
> same.
>
> Some 2.5" USB enclosures, include cabling solutions to enhance current
> flow. The first kind they made, has two USB connectors for the host
> end, and one USB connector on the peripheral end. The intention of that
> cable, is to add the current flow from two connectors. Of the two
> connectors on the host end, only one connector has the D+ and D-
> data pins connected.
>
> A second cabling solution, provides two USB cables. One is an ordinary
> shielded USB2 cable. The second, has a host connector on one end, and
> a barrel power connector which plugs into a 5VDC hole on the drive
> enclosure. This is doing something similar to the "two headed" cable,
> only providing two separate cables to do it. The two separate cables
> might encourage a larger separation between the two ports used
> on the computer.
>
> There are some enclosure purchases, that include an actual 5VDC adapter
> in the box. These leave nothing to the imagination, and will simply work.
> But if an enclosure maker is going to shave the parts list to the bare
> minimum, there is no reason to be doing it right. It's more fun if
> the end-users go around, with their hard drive working half the time.


Below I'll paste detailed information report:
-----------------------------------------------------

Hard Disk Summary
Hard Disk Number,3
Interface,JMicron USB/ATA
Vendor Information,"VID: 152D, PID: 2336"
Hard Disk Model ID,ST3500820AS
Firmware Revision,SD45
Hard Disk Serial Number,9QM2K3L7
Total Size,476937 MB
Power State,Active

Logical Drive(s)
Logical Drive,I: [HDDRIVE2GO]

ATA Information
Hard Disk Cylinders,969021
Hard Disk Heads,16
Hard Disk Sectors,63
Total Sectors,976773168
ATA Revision,ATA8-ACS version 4
Transport Version,SATA Rev 2.6
Bytes Per Sector,512
Buffer Size,8192 KB
Multiple Sectors,16
Error Correction Bytes,4
Unformatted Capacity,476940 MB
Maximum PIO Mode,4
Maximum Multiword DMA Mode,2
Maximum UDMA Mode,300 MB/s (6)
Active UDMA Mode,300 MB/s (6)
Minimum multiword DMA Transfer Time,120 ns
Recommended Multiword DMA Transfer Time,120 ns
Minimum PIO Transfer Time Without IORDY,120 ns
Minimum PIO Transfer Time With IORDY,120 ns
ATA Control Byte,Valid
ATA Checksum Value,Valid

Acoustic Management Configuration
Acoustic Management,Not supported
Acoustic Management,Disabled
Current Acoustic Level,Default (00h)
Recommended Acoustic Level,Balanced performance and volume (D0h)

ATA Features
Read Ahead Buffer,"Supported, Enabled"
DMA,Supported
Ultra DMA,Supported
S.M.A.R.T.,Supported
Power Management,Supported
Write Cache,Supported
Host Protected Area,Supported
Advanced Power Management,Not supported
Power Up In Standby,Not supported
48-bit LBA Addressing,Supported
Device Configuration Overlay,Supported
IORDY Support,Supported
Read/Write DMA Queue,Not supported
NOP Command,Not supported
Trusted Computing,Not supported
64-bit World Wide ID,005000C5930B595C
Streaming,Not supported
Media Card Pass Through,Not supported
General Purpose Logging,Supported
Error Logging,Supported
CFA Feature Set,Not supported
CFast Device,Not supported
Long Physical Sectors (1),Not supported
Long Logical Sectors,Not supported
Write-Read-Verify,"Supported, Enabled"
NV Cache Feature,Not supported
NV Cache Power Mode,Not supported
NV Cache Size,Not supported
Free-fall Control,Not supported
Free-fall Control Sensitivity,Not supported
Nominal Media Rotation Rate,7200 RPM

SSD Features
Data Set Management,Not supported
TRIM Command,Not supported
Deterministic Read After TRIM,Not supported

S.M.A.R.T. Details
Off-line Data Collection Status,Successfully Completed
Self Test Execution Status,Successfully Completed
Total Time To Complete Off-line Data Collection,625 seconds
Execute Off-line Immediate,Supported
Abort/restart Off-line By Host,Not supported
Off-line Read Scanning,Supported
Short Self-test,Supported
Extended Self-test,Supported
Conveyance Self-test,Supported
Selective Self-Test,Supported
Save Data Before/After Power Saving Mode,Supported
Enable/Disable Attribute Autosave,Supported
Error Logging Capability,Supported
Short Self-test Estimated Time,1 minutes
Extended Self-test Estimated Time,113 minutes
Conveyance self-test estimated time,2 minutes
Last Short Self-test Result,Never Started
Last Short Self-test Date,Never Started
Last Extended Self-test Result,Never Started
Last Extended Self-test Date,Never Started
Last Conveyance Self-test Result,Never Started
Last Conveyance Self-test Date,Never Started

Security Mode
Security Mode,Supported
Security Erase,Supported
Security Erase Time,49 minutes
Security Enhanced Erase Feature,Supported
Security Enhanced Erase Time,49 minutes
Security Enabled,No
Security Locked,No
Security Frozen,No
Security Counter Expired,No
Security Level,High

Serial ATA Features
S-ATA Compliance,Yes
S-ATA I Signaling Speed (1.5 Gps),Supported
S-ATA II Signaling Speed (3 Gps),Supported
S-ATA Gen3 Signaling Speed (6 Gps),Not supported
Receipt Of Power Management Requests From Host,Not supported
PHY Event Counters,Supported
Non-Zero Buffer Offsets In DMA Setup FIS,Not supported
DMA Setup Auto-Activate Optimization,Not supported
Device Initiating Interface Power Management,Not supported
In-Order Data Delivery,Not supported
Asynchronous Notification,Not supported
Software Settings Preservation,"Supported, Enabled"
Native Command Queuing (NCQ),Supported
Queue Length,32

Disk Information
Disk Family,Barracuda 7200.11 500820
Form Factor,"3.5"" "
Capacity,500 GB (500 x 1.000.000.000 bytes)
Number Of Disks,2
Number Of Heads,4
Rotational Speed,7200 RPM
Rotation Time,"8,33 ms"
Average Rotational Latency,"4,17 ms"
Disk Interface,Serial-ATA/300
Buffer-Host Max. Rate,300 MB/seconds
Buffer Size,8192 KB
Drive Ready Time (typical),20 seconds
Average Seek Time,"8,5 ms"
Track To Track Seek Time,"0,8 ms"
Full Stroke Seek Time,? ms
Width,"101,6 mm (4,0 inch)"
Depth,"147,0 mm (5,8 inch)"
Height,"26,1 mm (1,0 inch)"
Weight,"530 grams (1,2 pounds)"
Acoustic (Idle),"2,7 Bel"
Acoustic (Min performance and volume),"2,9 Bel"
Acoustic (Max performance and volume),"2,9 Bel"
Required power for spinup,2.800 mA
Power required (seek),"12,8 W"
Power required (idle),"7,2 W"
Power required (standby),"0,8 W"
Manufacturer,Seagate Technology
Manufacturer Website,http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products

-----------------------------------------------------




-- 
regards,

|\  /|
| \/ |@rk
 \../
  \/os


0
Linea
3/6/2010 12:18:44 PM
I have been trying to reply to your message, until now without success.
It is possible that multiple attempts may appear here.



-- 
regards,

|\  /|
| \/ |@rk
 \../
  \/os


0
Linea
3/6/2010 1:38:06 PM
Linea Recta wrote:
> "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> schreef in bericht 
> news:hmrun7$hpn$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>> Linea Recta wrote:
>>> I have been having trouble with one of my USB hard disks.
>>> It worked for some time, but not reliably.
>>> In practice it randomly dismounted while copying files (and also when not 
>>> copying).
>>> After that I had to pull the power plug and reinsert it to make the drive 
>>> mount again.
>>>
>>> Yesterday this happened again, I got annoyed and, since the drive is 
>>> still under a few monthes warranty, I decided to call Medion support.
>>> This guy advised to try it on another USB port.
>>> Initially I was sceptical but nevertheles I gave it a try. Guess what? 
>>> The troublesome drive now seems to work like a charm! Problem solved.
>>>
>>> But... how is this??? USB ports aren't equal? I changed over cables with 
>>> the other USB drive, which still seems to work fine on the former 
>>> "errorous" port.
>>>
>>> PS both USB2 ports. No hubs.
>>>
>>>
>> Is this a bus powered 2.5" USB hard drive ?
>>
>> The USB port has a limit of 500mA.
>>
>> The power is policed in different ways.
> 
> 
> 
> No, this is a 3.5" external USB 1.1 / USB 2 / SATA drive, which has its own 
> power adapter.
> The power adaptor = 12V, 2A, (24W).
> The drive case is Branded Medion MD 90087, but testing program HD Sentinel 
> indicates Model ID ST3500820AS, which points to Seagate.
> 
> 
> 
>> On my Asus desktop motherboards, a single Polyfuse is used to power
>> two ports in a stack. The fuse is rated at slightly more than 1 amp.
>> If only one USB connector in the stack is being used, the peripheral
>> could draw current close to that level.
> 
> 
> The mainboard of concerning PC is Asus P4B266.
> 
> 
>> On some laptops, and also some hub devices, they use a silicon solution
>> for USB power monitoring. You can get an 8 pin chip that will measure the
>> power and cut off the flow at just over 500mA (the port limit).
>>
>> The two implementations differ in the limit they have in hardware.
>> The laptop is less likely to be forgiving, on overcurrent.
> 
> 
> 
> As opposed to using it with the PC the drive has never failed yet connected 
> to the laptop (also connected by USB).
> 
> 
> 
>> If you look at the specifications of raw 2.5" USB drives now, some
>> give the appearance of needing less than 500mA. In many of those
>> cases, the "spinup current" is not specified. On some of the older
>> drives, it is 5V @ 1000mA. If a newer drive doesn't state that limit,
>> then we don't know whether it is better than the old drives, or the
>> same.
>>
>> Some 2.5" USB enclosures, include cabling solutions to enhance current
>> flow. The first kind they made, has two USB connectors for the host
>> end, and one USB connector on the peripheral end. The intention of that
>> cable, is to add the current flow from two connectors. Of the two
>> connectors on the host end, only one connector has the D+ and D-
>> data pins connected.
>>
>> A second cabling solution, provides two USB cables. One is an ordinary
>> shielded USB2 cable. The second, has a host connector on one end, and
>> a barrel power connector which plugs into a 5VDC hole on the drive
>> enclosure. This is doing something similar to the "two headed" cable,
>> only providing two separate cables to do it. The two separate cables
>> might encourage a larger separation between the two ports used
>> on the computer.
>>
>> There are some enclosure purchases, that include an actual 5VDC adapter
>> in the box. These leave nothing to the imagination, and will simply work.
>> But if an enclosure maker is going to shave the parts list to the bare
>> minimum, there is no reason to be doing it right. It's more fun if
>> the end-users go around, with their hard drive working half the time.
> 
> 
> Below I'll paste detailed information report:
> -----------------------------------------------------
> 
> Hard Disk Summary
> Hard Disk Number,3
> Interface,JMicron USB/ATA
> Vendor Information,"VID: 152D, PID: 2336"
> Hard Disk Model ID,ST3500820AS
> Firmware Revision,SD45
> Hard Disk Serial Number,9QM2K3L7
> Total Size,476937 MB
> Power State,Active
> 
> Logical Drive(s)
> Logical Drive,I: [HDDRIVE2GO]
> 
> ATA Information
> Hard Disk Cylinders,969021
> Hard Disk Heads,16
> Hard Disk Sectors,63
> Total Sectors,976773168
> ATA Revision,ATA8-ACS version 4
> Transport Version,SATA Rev 2.6
> Bytes Per Sector,512
> Buffer Size,8192 KB
> Multiple Sectors,16
> Error Correction Bytes,4
> Unformatted Capacity,476940 MB
> Maximum PIO Mode,4
> Maximum Multiword DMA Mode,2
> Maximum UDMA Mode,300 MB/s (6)
> Active UDMA Mode,300 MB/s (6)
> Minimum multiword DMA Transfer Time,120 ns
> Recommended Multiword DMA Transfer Time,120 ns
> Minimum PIO Transfer Time Without IORDY,120 ns
> Minimum PIO Transfer Time With IORDY,120 ns
> ATA Control Byte,Valid
> ATA Checksum Value,Valid
> 
> Acoustic Management Configuration
> Acoustic Management,Not supported
> Acoustic Management,Disabled
> Current Acoustic Level,Default (00h)
> Recommended Acoustic Level,Balanced performance and volume (D0h)
> 
> ATA Features
> Read Ahead Buffer,"Supported, Enabled"
> DMA,Supported
> Ultra DMA,Supported
> S.M.A.R.T.,Supported
> Power Management,Supported
> Write Cache,Supported
> Host Protected Area,Supported
> Advanced Power Management,Not supported
> Power Up In Standby,Not supported
> 48-bit LBA Addressing,Supported
> Device Configuration Overlay,Supported
> IORDY Support,Supported
> Read/Write DMA Queue,Not supported
> NOP Command,Not supported
> Trusted Computing,Not supported
> 64-bit World Wide ID,005000C5930B595C
> Streaming,Not supported
> Media Card Pass Through,Not supported
> General Purpose Logging,Supported
> Error Logging,Supported
> CFA Feature Set,Not supported
> CFast Device,Not supported
> Long Physical Sectors (1),Not supported
> Long Logical Sectors,Not supported
> Write-Read-Verify,"Supported, Enabled"
> NV Cache Feature,Not supported
> NV Cache Power Mode,Not supported
> NV Cache Size,Not supported
> Free-fall Control,Not supported
> Free-fall Control Sensitivity,Not supported
> Nominal Media Rotation Rate,7200 RPM
> 
> SSD Features
> Data Set Management,Not supported
> TRIM Command,Not supported
> Deterministic Read After TRIM,Not supported
> 
> S.M.A.R.T. Details
> Off-line Data Collection Status,Successfully Completed
> Self Test Execution Status,Successfully Completed
> Total Time To Complete Off-line Data Collection,625 seconds
> Execute Off-line Immediate,Supported
> Abort/restart Off-line By Host,Not supported
> Off-line Read Scanning,Supported
> Short Self-test,Supported
> Extended Self-test,Supported
> Conveyance Self-test,Supported
> Selective Self-Test,Supported
> Save Data Before/After Power Saving Mode,Supported
> Enable/Disable Attribute Autosave,Supported
> Error Logging Capability,Supported
> Short Self-test Estimated Time,1 minutes
> Extended Self-test Estimated Time,113 minutes
> Conveyance self-test estimated time,2 minutes
> Last Short Self-test Result,Never Started
> Last Short Self-test Date,Never Started
> Last Extended Self-test Result,Never Started
> Last Extended Self-test Date,Never Started
> Last Conveyance Self-test Result,Never Started
> Last Conveyance Self-test Date,Never Started
> 
> Security Mode
> Security Mode,Supported
> Security Erase,Supported
> Security Erase Time,49 minutes
> Security Enhanced Erase Feature,Supported
> Security Enhanced Erase Time,49 minutes
> Security Enabled,No
> Security Locked,No
> Security Frozen,No
> Security Counter Expired,No
> Security Level,High
> 
> Serial ATA Features
> S-ATA Compliance,Yes
> S-ATA I Signaling Speed (1.5 Gps),Supported
> S-ATA II Signaling Speed (3 Gps),Supported
> S-ATA Gen3 Signaling Speed (6 Gps),Not supported
> Receipt Of Power Management Requests From Host,Not supported
> PHY Event Counters,Supported
> Non-Zero Buffer Offsets In DMA Setup FIS,Not supported
> DMA Setup Auto-Activate Optimization,Not supported
> Device Initiating Interface Power Management,Not supported
> In-Order Data Delivery,Not supported
> Asynchronous Notification,Not supported
> Software Settings Preservation,"Supported, Enabled"
> Native Command Queuing (NCQ),Supported
> Queue Length,32
> 
> Disk Information
> Disk Family,Barracuda 7200.11 500820
> Form Factor,"3.5"" "
> Capacity,500 GB (500 x 1.000.000.000 bytes)
> Number Of Disks,2
> Number Of Heads,4
> Rotational Speed,7200 RPM
> Rotation Time,"8,33 ms"
> Average Rotational Latency,"4,17 ms"
> Disk Interface,Serial-ATA/300
> Buffer-Host Max. Rate,300 MB/seconds
> Buffer Size,8192 KB
> Drive Ready Time (typical),20 seconds
> Average Seek Time,"8,5 ms"
> Track To Track Seek Time,"0,8 ms"
> Full Stroke Seek Time,? ms
> Width,"101,6 mm (4,0 inch)"
> Depth,"147,0 mm (5,8 inch)"
> Height,"26,1 mm (1,0 inch)"
> Weight,"530 grams (1,2 pounds)"
> Acoustic (Idle),"2,7 Bel"
> Acoustic (Min performance and volume),"2,9 Bel"
> Acoustic (Max performance and volume),"2,9 Bel"
> Required power for spinup,2.800 mA
> Power required (seek),"12,8 W"
> Power required (idle),"7,2 W"
> Power required (standby),"0,8 W"
> Manufacturer,Seagate Technology
> Manufacturer Website,http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------
> 

Then forget my suggestion. Since this is a 3.5" enclosure, with its
own power supply, there would be no significant power draw by the
enclosure, from the USB cable.

*******

The one thing that stuck out in your data dump above was "HDDRIVE2GO",
so I tried that term plus Medion and ended up here.

http://forums.seagate.com/t5/Internal-ATA-and-Serial-ATA/Firmware-update-for-SATA-drive-via-USB-enclosure-Seagate/m-p/22202

The comments there, are with respect to some of their larger capacity
disks.

    "I can't even use this drive to backup things, since it will just
     stop working after a few minutes."

Seagate did have an issue with firmware on their drives a while back.
There was a short stink about it. Seagate doesn't typically offer firmware
updates directly on the web site, but vets them via their tech support.

I see your raw drive model number ST3500820AS here, but perhaps your
firmware has already been updated (i.e. not an affected version).
Your firmware version of SD45 isn't in the table.
It is something you might discuss with Seagate technical support.
And I see they do offer downloads here, which is unusual.

http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=207951&Hilite=

*******

I don't want to send you off chasing a red herring. The thing is,
you say the drive works fine when plugged into another USB port.
Which suggests the drive mechanism isn't at fault. The power
for the drive is coming from the enclosure side of things.

On a computer, there is a difference between the front USB ports
and the rear USB ports. The USB connector on a rear port, is soldered
directly to the motherboard PCB. The tracks leading up to the connector,
can have controlled impedance. Which means, electrically speaking, the
"wiring" is ideal.

The front panel, on the other hand, has a cable assembly leading from a
pin header on the motherboard. On assemblies Asus makes, they're careful
to shield the wire bundle, and do so very close to the end connectors. That
is similar to USB2 external cabling, where there is shielding, and they're
pretty careful about the construction details.

Some computer cases have had less than ideal front port assemblies. Antec,
a company that makes computer cases, issued a large number of cases that
only support USB 1.1 transmission rates on the front connector. So a customer
might expect some problems with the front connector, versus the rear one.
Sometimes, it isn't the wiring itself, but a few analog components on the
USB connector PCB mounted in the front of the computer case (filtering
which is not consistent with usage at USB2 rates). The rear port design
is done by a motherboard designer, and they seem to have more clues
than whoever makes the little PCB glued into the front of a computer
case.

In Windows, the registry is used to keep track of devices. Sometimes,
a USB behavior is a result of something stored in the registry. Moving
a USB peripheral to another connector, may benefit from some level of
"starting from scratch", in terms of the information recorded in the
registry. Again, I don't see a reason to suspect this, but something
an entire clearing of the USB stack, changes the symptoms a person sees.

So there are a few ideas, but none of them so far exactly correlates with
yours. Since you do have a USB port that works, you're not really in much
trouble at all. If none of the ports worked, and the symptoms were
consistent, it might point to a more serious problem.

In terms of design concepts, Seagate, in their own external enclosure designs,
had a few thermal problems. They like to design enclosures without fans. To
counter potential heat issues (high drive fallout, perhaps thermally induced),
their next generation of enclosures caused the drive to spin down after a
short interval of inactivity. Perhaps the behavior correlates with spindown,
but I don't really know what I'd be looking for there. Certainly, if you
were in the middle of transferring files, there is no reason for spindown
to take place. It should require a period of inactivity, if that is actually
implemented in the design. If Medion designed their own housing, and this
isn't just some rebadged Seagate design, then that might not be it either.

The chip in the enclosure is a Jmicron, and I don't know if we could
find any "dirt" on that end of things or not. I took a quick look, but
don't see anything of note.

http://www.jmicron.com/Product_JM20336.htm

    Paul
0
Paul
3/6/2010 5:18:27 PM
"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> schreef in bericht 
news:hmu2p3$p6s$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> Linea Recta wrote:
>> "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> schreef in bericht 
>> news:hmrun7$hpn$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>>> Linea Recta wrote:
>>>> I have been having trouble with one of my USB hard disks.
>>>> It worked for some time, but not reliably.
>>>> In practice it randomly dismounted while copying files (and also when 
>>>> not copying).
>>>> After that I had to pull the power plug and reinsert it to make the 
>>>> drive mount again.
>>>>
>>>> Yesterday this happened again, I got annoyed and, since the drive is 
>>>> still under a few monthes warranty, I decided to call Medion support.
>>>> This guy advised to try it on another USB port.
>>>> Initially I was sceptical but nevertheles I gave it a try. Guess what? 
>>>> The troublesome drive now seems to work like a charm! Problem solved.
>>>>
>>>> But... how is this??? USB ports aren't equal? I changed over cables 
>>>> with the other USB drive, which still seems to work fine on the former 
>>>> "errorous" port.
>>>>
>>>> PS both USB2 ports. No hubs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Is this a bus powered 2.5" USB hard drive ?
>>>
>>> The USB port has a limit of 500mA.
>>>
>>> The power is policed in different ways.
>>
>>
>>
>> No, this is a 3.5" external USB 1.1 / USB 2 / SATA drive, which has its 
>> own power adapter.
>> The power adaptor = 12V, 2A, (24W).
>> The drive case is Branded Medion MD 90087, but testing program HD 
>> Sentinel indicates Model ID ST3500820AS, which points to Seagate.
>>
>>
>>
>>> On my Asus desktop motherboards, a single Polyfuse is used to power
>>> two ports in a stack. The fuse is rated at slightly more than 1 amp.
>>> If only one USB connector in the stack is being used, the peripheral
>>> could draw current close to that level.
>>
>>
>> The mainboard of concerning PC is Asus P4B266.
>>
>>
>>> On some laptops, and also some hub devices, they use a silicon solution
>>> for USB power monitoring. You can get an 8 pin chip that will measure 
>>> the
>>> power and cut off the flow at just over 500mA (the port limit).
>>>
>>> The two implementations differ in the limit they have in hardware.
>>> The laptop is less likely to be forgiving, on overcurrent.
>>
>>
>>
>> As opposed to using it with the PC the drive has never failed yet 
>> connected to the laptop (also connected by USB).
>>
>>
>>
>>> If you look at the specifications of raw 2.5" USB drives now, some
>>> give the appearance of needing less than 500mA. In many of those
>>> cases, the "spinup current" is not specified. On some of the older
>>> drives, it is 5V @ 1000mA. If a newer drive doesn't state that limit,
>>> then we don't know whether it is better than the old drives, or the
>>> same.
>>>
>>> Some 2.5" USB enclosures, include cabling solutions to enhance current
>>> flow. The first kind they made, has two USB connectors for the host
>>> end, and one USB connector on the peripheral end. The intention of that
>>> cable, is to add the current flow from two connectors. Of the two
>>> connectors on the host end, only one connector has the D+ and D-
>>> data pins connected.
>>>
>>> A second cabling solution, provides two USB cables. One is an ordinary
>>> shielded USB2 cable. The second, has a host connector on one end, and
>>> a barrel power connector which plugs into a 5VDC hole on the drive
>>> enclosure. This is doing something similar to the "two headed" cable,
>>> only providing two separate cables to do it. The two separate cables
>>> might encourage a larger separation between the two ports used
>>> on the computer.
>>>
>>> There are some enclosure purchases, that include an actual 5VDC adapter
>>> in the box. These leave nothing to the imagination, and will simply 
>>> work.
>>> But if an enclosure maker is going to shave the parts list to the bare
>>> minimum, there is no reason to be doing it right. It's more fun if
>>> the end-users go around, with their hard drive working half the time.
>>
>>
>> Below I'll paste detailed information report:
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Hard Disk Summary
>> Hard Disk Number,3
>> Interface,JMicron USB/ATA
>> Vendor Information,"VID: 152D, PID: 2336"
>> Hard Disk Model ID,ST3500820AS
>> Firmware Revision,SD45
>> Hard Disk Serial Number,9QM2K3L7
>> Total Size,476937 MB
>> Power State,Active
>>
>> Logical Drive(s)
>> Logical Drive,I: [HDDRIVE2GO]
>>
>> ATA Information
>> Hard Disk Cylinders,969021
>> Hard Disk Heads,16
>> Hard Disk Sectors,63
>> Total Sectors,976773168
>> ATA Revision,ATA8-ACS version 4
>> Transport Version,SATA Rev 2.6
>> Bytes Per Sector,512
>> Buffer Size,8192 KB
>> Multiple Sectors,16
>> Error Correction Bytes,4
>> Unformatted Capacity,476940 MB
>> Maximum PIO Mode,4
>> Maximum Multiword DMA Mode,2
>> Maximum UDMA Mode,300 MB/s (6)
>> Active UDMA Mode,300 MB/s (6)
>> Minimum multiword DMA Transfer Time,120 ns
>> Recommended Multiword DMA Transfer Time,120 ns
>> Minimum PIO Transfer Time Without IORDY,120 ns
>> Minimum PIO Transfer Time With IORDY,120 ns
>> ATA Control Byte,Valid
>> ATA Checksum Value,Valid
>>
>> Acoustic Management Configuration
>> Acoustic Management,Not supported
>> Acoustic Management,Disabled
>> Current Acoustic Level,Default (00h)
>> Recommended Acoustic Level,Balanced performance and volume (D0h)
>>
>> ATA Features
>> Read Ahead Buffer,"Supported, Enabled"
>> DMA,Supported
>> Ultra DMA,Supported
>> S.M.A.R.T.,Supported
>> Power Management,Supported
>> Write Cache,Supported
>> Host Protected Area,Supported
>> Advanced Power Management,Not supported
>> Power Up In Standby,Not supported
>> 48-bit LBA Addressing,Supported
>> Device Configuration Overlay,Supported
>> IORDY Support,Supported
>> Read/Write DMA Queue,Not supported
>> NOP Command,Not supported
>> Trusted Computing,Not supported
>> 64-bit World Wide ID,005000C5930B595C
>> Streaming,Not supported
>> Media Card Pass Through,Not supported
>> General Purpose Logging,Supported
>> Error Logging,Supported
>> CFA Feature Set,Not supported
>> CFast Device,Not supported
>> Long Physical Sectors (1),Not supported
>> Long Logical Sectors,Not supported
>> Write-Read-Verify,"Supported, Enabled"
>> NV Cache Feature,Not supported
>> NV Cache Power Mode,Not supported
>> NV Cache Size,Not supported
>> Free-fall Control,Not supported
>> Free-fall Control Sensitivity,Not supported
>> Nominal Media Rotation Rate,7200 RPM
>>
>> SSD Features
>> Data Set Management,Not supported
>> TRIM Command,Not supported
>> Deterministic Read After TRIM,Not supported
>>
>> S.M.A.R.T. Details
>> Off-line Data Collection Status,Successfully Completed
>> Self Test Execution Status,Successfully Completed
>> Total Time To Complete Off-line Data Collection,625 seconds
>> Execute Off-line Immediate,Supported
>> Abort/restart Off-line By Host,Not supported
>> Off-line Read Scanning,Supported
>> Short Self-test,Supported
>> Extended Self-test,Supported
>> Conveyance Self-test,Supported
>> Selective Self-Test,Supported
>> Save Data Before/After Power Saving Mode,Supported
>> Enable/Disable Attribute Autosave,Supported
>> Error Logging Capability,Supported
>> Short Self-test Estimated Time,1 minutes
>> Extended Self-test Estimated Time,113 minutes
>> Conveyance self-test estimated time,2 minutes
>> Last Short Self-test Result,Never Started
>> Last Short Self-test Date,Never Started
>> Last Extended Self-test Result,Never Started
>> Last Extended Self-test Date,Never Started
>> Last Conveyance Self-test Result,Never Started
>> Last Conveyance Self-test Date,Never Started
>>
>> Security Mode
>> Security Mode,Supported
>> Security Erase,Supported
>> Security Erase Time,49 minutes
>> Security Enhanced Erase Feature,Supported
>> Security Enhanced Erase Time,49 minutes
>> Security Enabled,No
>> Security Locked,No
>> Security Frozen,No
>> Security Counter Expired,No
>> Security Level,High
>>
>> Serial ATA Features
>> S-ATA Compliance,Yes
>> S-ATA I Signaling Speed (1.5 Gps),Supported
>> S-ATA II Signaling Speed (3 Gps),Supported
>> S-ATA Gen3 Signaling Speed (6 Gps),Not supported
>> Receipt Of Power Management Requests From Host,Not supported
>> PHY Event Counters,Supported
>> Non-Zero Buffer Offsets In DMA Setup FIS,Not supported
>> DMA Setup Auto-Activate Optimization,Not supported
>> Device Initiating Interface Power Management,Not supported
>> In-Order Data Delivery,Not supported
>> Asynchronous Notification,Not supported
>> Software Settings Preservation,"Supported, Enabled"
>> Native Command Queuing (NCQ),Supported
>> Queue Length,32
>>
>> Disk Information
>> Disk Family,Barracuda 7200.11 500820
>> Form Factor,"3.5"" "
>> Capacity,500 GB (500 x 1.000.000.000 bytes)
>> Number Of Disks,2
>> Number Of Heads,4
>> Rotational Speed,7200 RPM
>> Rotation Time,"8,33 ms"
>> Average Rotational Latency,"4,17 ms"
>> Disk Interface,Serial-ATA/300
>> Buffer-Host Max. Rate,300 MB/seconds
>> Buffer Size,8192 KB
>> Drive Ready Time (typical),20 seconds
>> Average Seek Time,"8,5 ms"
>> Track To Track Seek Time,"0,8 ms"
>> Full Stroke Seek Time,? ms
>> Width,"101,6 mm (4,0 inch)"
>> Depth,"147,0 mm (5,8 inch)"
>> Height,"26,1 mm (1,0 inch)"
>> Weight,"530 grams (1,2 pounds)"
>> Acoustic (Idle),"2,7 Bel"
>> Acoustic (Min performance and volume),"2,9 Bel"
>> Acoustic (Max performance and volume),"2,9 Bel"
>> Required power for spinup,2.800 mA
>> Power required (seek),"12,8 W"
>> Power required (idle),"7,2 W"
>> Power required (standby),"0,8 W"
>> Manufacturer,Seagate Technology
>> Manufacturer Website,http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>
>
> Then forget my suggestion. Since this is a 3.5" enclosure, with its
> own power supply, there would be no significant power draw by the
> enclosure, from the USB cable.
>
> *******
>
> The one thing that stuck out in your data dump above was "HDDRIVE2GO",
> so I tried that term plus Medion and ended up here.
>
> http://forums.seagate.com/t5/Internal-ATA-and-Serial-ATA/Firmware-update-for-SATA-drive-via-USB-enclosure-Seagate/m-p/22202
>
> The comments there, are with respect to some of their larger capacity
> disks.
>
>    "I can't even use this drive to backup things, since it will just
>     stop working after a few minutes."
>
> Seagate did have an issue with firmware on their drives a while back.
> There was a short stink about it. Seagate doesn't typically offer firmware
> updates directly on the web site, but vets them via their tech support.
>
> I see your raw drive model number ST3500820AS here, but perhaps your
> firmware has already been updated (i.e. not an affected version).
> Your firmware version of SD45 isn't in the table.


I see... but I'm not sure about the implimentation, i.e. how can I know for 
sure which firmware is the latest? These codes don't ring a bell and I don't 
see any release dates...
Furthermore I tried their Drive Detect software: it seems to detect all my 
maxtor(!) drives, even the external one, but it does NOT detect the 
Medion/Seagate in question!



> It is something you might discuss with Seagate technical support.
> And I see they do offer downloads here, which is unusual.
>
> http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=207951&Hilite=
>
> *******
>
> I don't want to send you off chasing a red herring. The thing is,
> you say the drive works fine when plugged into another USB port.
> Which suggests the drive mechanism isn't at fault. The power
> for the drive is coming from the enclosure side of things.
>
> On a computer, there is a difference between the front USB ports
> and the rear USB ports. The USB connector on a rear port, is soldered
> directly to the motherboard PCB. The tracks leading up to the connector,
> can have controlled impedance. Which means, electrically speaking, the
> "wiring" is ideal.
>
> The front panel, on the other hand, has a cable assembly leading from a
> pin header on the motherboard. On assemblies Asus makes, they're careful
> to shield the wire bundle, and do so very close to the end connectors. 
> That
> is similar to USB2 external cabling, where there is shielding, and they're
> pretty careful about the construction details.
>
> Some computer cases have had less than ideal front port assemblies. Antec,
> a company that makes computer cases, issued a large number of cases that
> only support USB 1.1 transmission rates on the front connector. So a 
> customer
> might expect some problems with the front connector, versus the rear one.
> Sometimes, it isn't the wiring itself, but a few analog components on the
> USB connector PCB mounted in the front of the computer case (filtering
> which is not consistent with usage at USB2 rates). The rear port design
> is done by a motherboard designer, and they seem to have more clues
> than whoever makes the little PCB glued into the front of a computer
> case.


I have 2 USB1 connections and 4 USB2 connections, all of them located at the 
rear end of the comuter (and btw diastrously out of reach...)


>
> In Windows, the registry is used to keep track of devices. Sometimes,
> a USB behavior is a result of something stored in the registry. Moving
> a USB peripheral to another connector, may benefit from some level of
> "starting from scratch", in terms of the information recorded in the
> registry. Again, I don't see a reason to suspect this, but something
> an entire clearing of the USB stack, changes the symptoms a person sees.
>
> So there are a few ideas, but none of them so far exactly correlates with
> yours. Since you do have a USB port that works, you're not really in much
> trouble at all. If none of the ports worked, and the symptoms were
> consistent, it might point to a more serious problem.
>
> In terms of design concepts, Seagate, in their own external enclosure 
> designs,
> had a few thermal problems. They like to design enclosures without fans. 
> To


The Medion enclosure has no fan, but it does have air slots. Temperature is 
never becomming exeedingly high on the outside.


> counter potential heat issues (high drive fallout, perhaps thermally 
> induced),
> their next generation of enclosures caused the drive to spin down after a
> short interval of inactivity. Perhaps the behavior correlates with 
> spindown,
> but I don't really know what I'd be looking for there. Certainly, if you


For my external Maxtror I have a utility to set the spindown time or to 
disable it.
For the Medion I have no such thing, nor could find any on the internet. 
Later on I discovered that it spins down anyway after some time, by a built 
in parameter I suppose.



> were in the middle of transferring files, there is no reason for spindown
> to take place. It should require a period of inactivity, if that is 
> actually
> implemented in the design. If Medion designed their own housing, and this
> isn't just some rebadged Seagate design, then that might not be it either.
>
> The chip in the enclosure is a Jmicron, and I don't know if we could
> find any "dirt" on that end of things or not. I took a quick look, but
> don't see anything of note.
>
> http://www.jmicron.com/Product_JM20336.htm


Thanks for all your input,


-- 
regards,

|\  /|
| \/ |@rk
 \../
  \/os



>
>    Paul 


0
Linea
3/9/2010 2:33:23 PM
Linea Recta wrote:
> "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> schreef in bericht 
> news:hmu2p3$p6s$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>> Linea Recta wrote:

>>>
>>> Below I'll paste detailed information report:
>>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Hard Disk Summary
>>> Hard Disk Number,3
>>> Interface,JMicron USB/ATA
>>> Vendor Information,"VID: 152D, PID: 2336"
>>> Hard Disk Model ID,ST3500820AS
>>> Firmware Revision,SD45
>>> Hard Disk Serial Number,9QM2K3L7
>>> Total Size,476937 MB
>>> Power State,Active
>>>

>> Seagate did have an issue with firmware on their drives a while back.
>> There was a short stink about it. Seagate doesn't typically offer firmware
>> updates directly on the web site, but vets them via their tech support.
>>
>> I see your raw drive model number ST3500820AS here, but perhaps your
>> firmware has already been updated (i.e. not an affected version).
>> Your firmware version of SD45 isn't in the table.
> 
> 
> I see... but I'm not sure about the implimentation, i.e. how can I know for 
> sure which firmware is the latest? These codes don't ring a bell and I don't 
> see any release dates...
> Furthermore I tried their Drive Detect software: it seems to detect all my 
> maxtor(!) drives, even the external one, but it does NOT detect the 
> Medion/Seagate in question!

If the software doesn't work, perhaps you can take the info you pasted
in your "detailed information report" above, and contact Seagate tech
support. It is possible their Drive Detect software is designed for
directly connected drives, rather than USB ones. Similarly, if
they have a firmware updater, a question would be whether that runs
on a directly connected port, or can work through USB. My experience
(with flashing optical drives), is they should be directly connected.

> 
> 
> I have 2 USB1 connections and 4 USB2 connections, all of them located at the 
> rear end of the comuter (and btw diastrously out of reach...)
> 
> 
> The Medion enclosure has no fan, but it does have air slots. Temperature is 
> never becomming exeedingly high on the outside.
> 
> 
> For my external Maxtror I have a utility to set the spindown time or to 
> disable it.
> For the Medion I have no such thing, nor could find any on the internet. 
> Later on I discovered that it spins down anyway after some time, by a built 
> in parameter I suppose.
> 
> Thanks for all your input,
> 

For the USB ports which are out of reach, you could always plug a
cable into them, and leave the cable end located in a convenient location.

That is one of the reasons, that I keep my computers on the desktop. I can reach
all sides of the computers. My computer table is 4' x 4', so there is room
for plenty of junk.

If you want to browse through the ATA/ATAPI spec, there is an example here
of one. Section 7.18.3 has a "Table 40" with Standby Timer value settings.
In the case of your drive housed in a USB enclosure, it could be the
enclosure chip that sets the value. It isn't clear whether that value is
preserved across power cycles or not, by the drive, or whether it has
to be programmed at each power up. (And at 500 pages in length for the
spec, if would likely take a few minutes to figure that out.)

http://www.t13.org/Documents/UploadedDocuments/docs2008/D1699r6a-ATA8-ACS.pdf

    Paul
0
Paul
3/9/2010 3:35:50 PM
I had problems with using front USB ports as opposed to the rear ones in my 
computer. Seems the front ones were low power or something. One manufacturer 
makes a keyboard I used to own, which has two USB ports on them, but they're 
worthless since they were low powered. It wasn't useful in that my devices 
needed more.

"Linea Recta" <mccm.vos@abc.invalid> wrote in message 
news:e9avCMKvKHA.3896@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>I have been having trouble with one of my USB hard disks.
> It worked for some time, but not reliably.
> In practice it randomly dismounted while copying files (and also when not 
> copying).
> After that I had to pull the power plug and reinsert it to make the drive 
> mount again.
>
> Yesterday this happened again, I got annoyed and, since the drive is still 
> under a few monthes warranty, I decided to call Medion support.
> This guy advised to try it on another USB port.
> Initially I was sceptical but nevertheles I gave it a try. Guess what? The 
> troublesome drive now seems to work like a charm! Problem solved.
>
> But... how is this??? USB ports aren't equal? I changed over cables with 
> the other USB drive, which still seems to work fine on the former 
> "errorous" port.
>
> PS both USB2 ports. No hubs.
>
>
> -- 
> regards,
>
> |\  /|
> | \/ |@rk
> \../
>  \/os
>
> 


0
shawn
3/9/2010 8:15:02 PM
Reply:

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I am trying to map a product list to a template for their my website ecommerce app. my product fields don't match up exactly with the website so in some cases I need to consolidate fields. I would like take some columns and combine them into one.. but instead of taking 1,2,3 into 123 I want to add some text and stuff in between... ie, some of the columns I have are measurements so the numbers alone might be meaning less. I'm not really excel savvy but I tried =B2&othercolumns, but the problem with this is there are no spaces. I tried adding spaces before and or after ...

Multiple "SUM IF" functions in one formula??
I know it can be done, Excel can do anything but I'm not sure if I can even explain it. For example, I want column D2 to display a qty IF a customer number equals a specific value AND a part number equals a specific value. Basically Column A is a list of part numbers, and Row 1 is a list of customers. I need to pull how many parts each customer has ordered. Hi see: http://www.xldynamic.com/source/xld.SUMPRODUCT.html -- Regards Frank Kabel Frankfurt, Germany "Dax" <dax.tipton@smc.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:593e3ca7.0408301337.7b8f6a35@posting.google.com... > I ...

How to create Chart like this one
I want to create a LINE chart that keeps track of the student progress. The x-axis starting from 1 to upper bound, say, 10, and the y-axis is the student scores. The LINE will starts from the second coordinate (2ndX, 2ndY) and increasing by (x+5,y). Can you show me how to do that? ...

How do I print one page only?
I'm using the merge function and have a report with 20 pages. Sometimes I make a mistake on one page and have to reprint but it only lets me reprint all 20 pages.How do I print one page of a multiple page documents? When you select File, Print there is where it will display the pages to print. Say you want only page 12. Select pages from 12 of 12. -- Don Vancouver USA "mandero" <mandero@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:52FFB5AD-3F05-4DB8-AAF3-709503B30F3F@microsoft.com... > I'm using the merge function and have a report with 20 pages. Somet...

telnet to port 25
For single recipient, we type "rcpt to:user@domain.com" What is the syntax for sending test message to 2 recipients? Thanks! rcpt to:user1@domain.com rcpt to:user2@domain.com ... ... rcpt to:usern@domain.com Just repeating the line.. -- Regards, Yannick DUCERF French Exchange Administrator "kevin" <kevin@nospam.com> a �crit dans le message de news: eNi13GotEHA.2664@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... > For single recipient, we type "rcpt to:user@domain.com" > What is the syntax for sending test message to 2 recipients? > > Thanks! > > Can I do ...

how do i delete blank space on one note pages
Once I've added something on to a one note page and then delete it, its not always possible to delete the blank space. Not a big problem in one note, until you come to print and then you get blank pages which is not good for the planet !! Ive tried using the Insert Extra Writing Space in reverse, which sometimes works but not consistently. Im using OneNote 2007 in XP environment -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Once I've added something on to a one note page and then delete it, its not > always possible to delete the blank space. > > Not ...

"One or more of the selected senders could not be added to your blocked senders list"
Hey all. I get this when ever I try to killfile anyone at all, regardless of who they are. I'm on OE6 in XP Home and this has only just started happening. My KF only has a few spammers in it so I don't think it's full. Does anyone know what's going on? Thanks Ayatollah of rock 'n' roller wrote: > Hey all. I get this when ever I try to killfile anyone at all, regardless of > who they are. I'm on OE6 in XP Home and this has only just started > happening. My KF only has a few spammers in it so I don't think it's full. > Does anyone...

Turning a row color to "yellow" if one date field is greater than another.
I would like to automatically turn a row color to yellow if the current date is greater than a "needed by" date column. What is the best way to do this? Hi Select the rows necessary and then go to Format/Conditional Formatting. If your 'needed by' date is in column D use 'Formula Is' and then in the box type: =$D1=today() Hope this helps. Andy. "Ray Stevens" <nfr@nospam.com> wrote in message news:umTvfnURGHA.4976@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... >I would like to automatically turn a row color to yellow if the current >date is greater than a &q...

Sum of all formulas in one column?
Is there some automatic way to make Excel total all of the cells containing formulas in a column? I know about the Subtotals feature, and being a new user, I can't quite figure out how to work it. I got to thinking if there is some easy formula that SUMs the results of all formulas in the same column, that would do exactly what I want it to do. Right now, all I'm doing to create a grand total is creating a formula manually to give me my grand total, i.e. =SUM(C5,C11,C18). However, if I'm going to add rows with subtotals in between each of my categories, I'll have to manu...

Ports to open on Firewall
I have bought a new Netgear router as I'm sure my old one was knackered... My router has just reset itself... is this normal? Anyway back to the subject... What ports do I need to keep open on my router, I am running Exchange with OWA on SBS03, nothing else really. Any help would be appreciated. Woady On Mon, 2 May 2005 16:32:00 +0100, "Me" <me@me.com> wrote: >I have bought a new Netgear router as I'm sure my old one was knackered... > >My router has just reset itself... is this normal? Anyway back to the >subject... > >What ports do I need...