ARM compiler in Microsoft Platform Builder 5.0

Hello,
I have a Freescale iMX31 (ARM11 Family). I know that ARM11 Famility 
corrisponds to core ARMv6 but on Microsoft Documentation I read that the ARM 
compiler support 4 and 5 (ARMv4 and ARMv5).
Followint the link :

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms925478.aspx

So I'm using a ARM11 processor with instruction set of ARM9 (ARMv4 - ARMv5).
In this manner, there isn't and optiomization on compiled code.
Some comments ?

Thanks,
Paolo
0
Utf
11/20/2009 2:18:01 PM
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On Nov 20, 2:18=A0pm, paolo patierno
<paolopatie...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I have a Freescale iMX31 (ARM11 Family). I know that ARM11 Famility
> corrisponds to core ARMv6 but on Microsoft Documentation I read that the =
ARM
> compiler support 4 and 5 (ARMv4 and ARMv5).
> Followint the link :
>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms925478.aspx
>
> So I'm using a ARM11 processor with instruction set of ARM9 (ARMv4 - ARMv=
5).
> In this manner, there isn't and optiomization on compiled code.
> Some comments ?
>
> Thanks,
> Paolo

Yes, you are correct. The compiler will generate only ARMV4/5 code and
all of the binary libraries supplied by Microsoft are compiled to use
ARMV4I instructions; none of the ARMV6 or NEON instructions are used,
and in CE 5.0 all floating point operations through the CRT are
emulated and the compiler never generates floating point instructions,
even if you have a processor with hardware VFP, like the i.MX31.
This does not mean that there is no optimisation, there is, but it
doesn't make use of the advanced instructions available in the newer
ARM cores.
If you use CE 6.0, it is possible to use the hardware VFP (see other
posts in this thread).
I believe that Microsoft are aware that the compiler for ARM is a
little out of date but don't plan to fix it for CE 6.0. They may
upgrade it with the next major release of CE.
Regards,
Andrew.
0
AndrewScholan
11/20/2009 3:17:25 PM
Why doesn't Microsoft update the compiler ??!

Thanks,
Paolo

"AndrewScholan[MCTS]" wrote:

> On Nov 20, 2:18 pm, paolo patierno
> <paolopatie...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> > Hello,
> > I have a Freescale iMX31 (ARM11 Family). I know that ARM11 Famility
> > corrisponds to core ARMv6 but on Microsoft Documentation I read that the ARM
> > compiler support 4 and 5 (ARMv4 and ARMv5).
> > Followint the link :
> >
> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms925478.aspx
> >
> > So I'm using a ARM11 processor with instruction set of ARM9 (ARMv4 - ARMv5).
> > In this manner, there isn't and optiomization on compiled code.
> > Some comments ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Paolo
> 
> Yes, you are correct. The compiler will generate only ARMV4/5 code and
> all of the binary libraries supplied by Microsoft are compiled to use
> ARMV4I instructions; none of the ARMV6 or NEON instructions are used,
> and in CE 5.0 all floating point operations through the CRT are
> emulated and the compiler never generates floating point instructions,
> even if you have a processor with hardware VFP, like the i.MX31.
> This does not mean that there is no optimisation, there is, but it
> doesn't make use of the advanced instructions available in the newer
> ARM cores.
> If you use CE 6.0, it is possible to use the hardware VFP (see other
> posts in this thread).
> I believe that Microsoft are aware that the compiler for ARM is a
> little out of date but don't plan to fix it for CE 6.0. They may
> upgrade it with the next major release of CE.
> Regards,
> Andrew.
> .
> 
0
Utf
11/20/2009 4:52:05 PM
Keep in mind that a large part of CE components are delivered prebuilt. 
Since the newer instructions are not compatible with older cores they would 
have to release/test multiple trees or drop support for older processors.

-- 
Dean Ramsier - eMVP
BSQUARE Corporation


"paolo patierno" <paolopatierno@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:8295BB26-DAA6-4C48-ADFF-F1532C2B29AD@microsoft.com...
> Why doesn't Microsoft update the compiler ??!
>
> Thanks,
> Paolo
>
> "AndrewScholan[MCTS]" wrote:
>
>> On Nov 20, 2:18 pm, paolo patierno
>> <paolopatie...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> > I have a Freescale iMX31 (ARM11 Family). I know that ARM11 Famility
>> > corrisponds to core ARMv6 but on Microsoft Documentation I read that 
>> > the ARM
>> > compiler support 4 and 5 (ARMv4 and ARMv5).
>> > Followint the link :
>> >
>> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms925478.aspx
>> >
>> > So I'm using a ARM11 processor with instruction set of ARM9 (ARMv4 - 
>> > ARMv5).
>> > In this manner, there isn't and optiomization on compiled code.
>> > Some comments ?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Paolo
>>
>> Yes, you are correct. The compiler will generate only ARMV4/5 code and
>> all of the binary libraries supplied by Microsoft are compiled to use
>> ARMV4I instructions; none of the ARMV6 or NEON instructions are used,
>> and in CE 5.0 all floating point operations through the CRT are
>> emulated and the compiler never generates floating point instructions,
>> even if you have a processor with hardware VFP, like the i.MX31.
>> This does not mean that there is no optimisation, there is, but it
>> doesn't make use of the advanced instructions available in the newer
>> ARM cores.
>> If you use CE 6.0, it is possible to use the hardware VFP (see other
>> posts in this thread).
>> I believe that Microsoft are aware that the compiler for ARM is a
>> little out of date but don't plan to fix it for CE 6.0. They may
>> upgrade it with the next major release of CE.
>> Regards,
>> Andrew.
>> .
>> 


0
Dean
11/20/2009 9:13:53 PM
I think that is better have multiple trees..
The actual situation is that the code generated by microsoft compiler isn't 
optimized for the ARMv6....it isn't a good thing...I have alywas loved 
Microsoft solution and products....but this isn't good..I have to think about 
this.

Thanks,
Paolo

"Dean Ramsier" wrote:

> Keep in mind that a large part of CE components are delivered prebuilt. 
> Since the newer instructions are not compatible with older cores they would 
> have to release/test multiple trees or drop support for older processors.
> 
> -- 
> Dean Ramsier - eMVP
> BSQUARE Corporation
> 
> 
> "paolo patierno" <paolopatierno@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
> news:8295BB26-DAA6-4C48-ADFF-F1532C2B29AD@microsoft.com...
> > Why doesn't Microsoft update the compiler ??!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Paolo
> >
> > "AndrewScholan[MCTS]" wrote:
> >
> >> On Nov 20, 2:18 pm, paolo patierno
> >> <paolopatie...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> >> > Hello,
> >> > I have a Freescale iMX31 (ARM11 Family). I know that ARM11 Famility
> >> > corrisponds to core ARMv6 but on Microsoft Documentation I read that 
> >> > the ARM
> >> > compiler support 4 and 5 (ARMv4 and ARMv5).
> >> > Followint the link :
> >> >
> >> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms925478.aspx
> >> >
> >> > So I'm using a ARM11 processor with instruction set of ARM9 (ARMv4 - 
> >> > ARMv5).
> >> > In this manner, there isn't and optiomization on compiled code.
> >> > Some comments ?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Paolo
> >>
> >> Yes, you are correct. The compiler will generate only ARMV4/5 code and
> >> all of the binary libraries supplied by Microsoft are compiled to use
> >> ARMV4I instructions; none of the ARMV6 or NEON instructions are used,
> >> and in CE 5.0 all floating point operations through the CRT are
> >> emulated and the compiler never generates floating point instructions,
> >> even if you have a processor with hardware VFP, like the i.MX31.
> >> This does not mean that there is no optimisation, there is, but it
> >> doesn't make use of the advanced instructions available in the newer
> >> ARM cores.
> >> If you use CE 6.0, it is possible to use the hardware VFP (see other
> >> posts in this thread).
> >> I believe that Microsoft are aware that the compiler for ARM is a
> >> little out of date but don't plan to fix it for CE 6.0. They may
> >> upgrade it with the next major release of CE.
> >> Regards,
> >> Andrew.
> >> .
> >> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
0
Utf
11/21/2009 12:50:01 PM
On Nov 21, 12:50=A0pm, paolo patierno
<paolopatie...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> I think that is better have multiple trees..
> The actual situation is that the code generated by microsoft compiler isn=
't
> optimized for the ARMv6....it isn't a good thing...I have alywas loved
> Microsoft solution and products....but this isn't good..I have to think a=
bout
> this.
>
> Thanks,
> Paolo
>
>
>
> "Dean Ramsier" wrote:
> > Keep in mind that a large part of CE components are delivered prebuilt.
> > Since the newer instructions are not compatible with older cores they w=
ould
> > have to release/test multiple trees or drop support for older processor=
s.
>
> > --
> > Dean Ramsier - eMVP
> > BSQUARE Corporation
>
> > "paolo patierno" <paolopatie...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in mes=
sage
> >news:8295BB26-DAA6-4C48-ADFF-F1532C2B29AD@microsoft.com...
> > > Why doesn't Microsoft update the compiler ??!
>
> > > Thanks,
> > > Paolo
>
> > > "AndrewScholan[MCTS]" wrote:
>
> > >> On Nov 20, 2:18 pm, paolo patierno
> > >> <paolopatie...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >> > Hello,
> > >> > I have a Freescale iMX31 (ARM11 Family). I know that ARM11 Familit=
y
> > >> > corrisponds to core ARMv6 but on Microsoft Documentation I read th=
at
> > >> > the ARM
> > >> > compiler support 4 and 5 (ARMv4 and ARMv5).
> > >> > Followint the link :
>
> > >> >http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms925478.aspx
>
> > >> > So I'm using a ARM11 processor with instruction set of ARM9 (ARMv4=
 -
> > >> > ARMv5).
> > >> > In this manner, there isn't and optiomization on compiled code.
> > >> > Some comments ?
>
> > >> > Thanks,
> > >> > Paolo
>
> > >> Yes, you are correct. The compiler will generate only ARMV4/5 code a=
nd
> > >> all of the binary libraries supplied by Microsoft are compiled to us=
e
> > >> ARMV4I instructions; none of the ARMV6 or NEON instructions are used=
,
> > >> and in CE 5.0 all floating point operations through the CRT are
> > >> emulated and the compiler never generates floating point instruction=
s,
> > >> even if you have a processor with hardware VFP, like the i.MX31.
> > >> This does not mean that there is no optimisation, there is, but it
> > >> doesn't make use of the advanced instructions available in the newer
> > >> ARM cores.
> > >> If you use CE 6.0, it is possible to use the hardware VFP (see other
> > >> posts in this thread).
> > >> I believe that Microsoft are aware that the compiler for ARM is a
> > >> little out of date but don't plan to fix it for CE 6.0. They may
> > >> upgrade it with the next major release of CE.
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Andrew.
> > >> .
>
> > .- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It's not really the end of the world... you're using CE5.0 which is
several years old now; you should consider moving to CE6.0 then you'll
get the benefit of being able to use the hardware vector floating
point unit in the i.MX31 which is a big optimisation leap anyway. The
fact that your compiler can't use some of the more sophisticated ARM
instructions is frustrating, I admit. We would all like to get the
best optimisation for our code but there is a backwards compatibility
that has to be maintained in the libraries, etc.

I do know that MS development team are aware of this issue. You could
log on to the next Windows CE online chat session that MS organise and
ask the development team directly....

Andrew.
0
AndrewScholan
11/23/2009 4:14:33 PM
Reply:

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