Multiple problems with WLM

Multiple problems with WLM

I realize that this problems list is long enough that it's unlikely that 
just one person will be able to solve them all.  Therefore, it's OK to reply 
only for the one you can handle.  Since some of these problems may be 
related, I decided to list them all in one post.

1.  The All news view in the Quick views is either mislabelled, or unable to 
handle very large collections of unread newsgroups posts (I first saw this 
problem when the count was over 1,000,000, WLM was restarted, and the count 
dropped much lower (under 50,000).  Since then I've seen similar drops from 
over 500,000 to much lower twice; it now shows 40627, but the number of 
unread newsgroups posts in some of the larger newsgroups are:

 51693
307120
238363
100225
 62188

If it counts only posts downloaded in the current session, or something else 
like that, its name should be changed to reflect this.

2.  Trying to move very large groups of posts (often over 100,000 at a time) 
from an active newsgroup to a storage folder often results in a Data 
Execution Error, often with a side effect of causing problems in another 
program running at the same time (specifically, a BOINC workunit from The 
Lattice Project that refuses to try to run with less than nearly 1.2 GB 
allocated to its program; judging by previous experience, it will probably 
continue running at least 150 more hours, with NO usable checkpoints past 
the one a few days ago).  I may have also seen such errors when trying to 
move smaller groups of posts from an active newsgroup with over 100,000 
posts to a storage folder.

3.  Shutting down WLM now always gives a window saying:


Recover unused disk space?

You may be able to recover unused disk space. Your
messages won't be moved or compressed.


The reason I always see this may have something to do with the fact that 
when I installed WLM, I had Windows Mail set to allow very low numbers of 
runs (perhaps only 1) between database compressions.

However, when I click the Yes button for this message, even after waiting a 
few minutes, I always get an error message, seconds after it attempts to 
start the compression:


The folder is currently in use by Windows Live Mail or
by another application.


If the conflicting program happens to be WLM itself, could an option be 
added to allow more time between when the main part of the program closes 
whatever folder is involved, and the time the database compression part trys 
to open any folders?

Could that error message be changed to be more specific about exactly what 
program is using the folder?

4.  Trying to import my Windows Mail message database into WLM gives me 
these error messages plus a few more:


Windows Mail could not be started.  The application
was unable to open the Windows Mail message store.
Your Windows Mail mailbox data is currently being
used by another program, such as a virus scanner.
Close the program or wait for it to complete its
operation, then opem Windows Mail again.
(0x800C0155)

Windows Mail could not be started because MSOE.DLL could not be
initialized.


Could this error message also be changed to say more about exactly which 
other program is using the Windows Mail database?  All my guesses have 
failed, and even rebooting the computer does not allow Windows Mail to start 
without this problem.  This leaves me unable to import the messages part of 
the Windows Mail database - currently estimated at over 2,000,000 messages, 
counting both email and newsgroups posts, into WLM.

Or, if you prefer, either modify WLM or add a program to its executables 
folder to allow importing the Windows Mail database without trying to start 
Windows Mail even in a special mode to help send the database to WLM.


5.  An earlier attempt to import the Windows Mail database was able to 
import part of the message database , but failed when it reached a Windows 
Mail storage folder holding about 126,000 unread newsgroup posts.  The 
Window Mail program was, at that time, unable to open that folder when using 
the usual method of arranging messages by their timestamp of when they were 
sent; WLM was apparantly able to import all the folders it decided to import 
before this very large folder, and about 90,000 of the posts in this folder, 
but then the import process hung and I killed WLM a few hours later.

This old partially imported WLM database was backed up on DVDs, but then 
both the WLM database and the Windows Mail database were lost during a hard 
drive replacement, and I was unable to restore them in usable condition from 
the backups.  Apparantly, the list of previous backups was also lost, and 
therefore the backup program was unable to recognize the backup as one from 
the same computer, so it restored the files, but not in a directory tree 
where the programs could use them.  It appears that the backup program needs 
some instructions specific to restoring entire WLM and Windows Mail 
databases for a user, but not a blind restore of everything it can for all 
users; it currently does not have them.  (I'm using Windows Vista Home 
Premium, so making a complete backup of the hard drive, including 
executables and system files, was not an option.)

6.  SOMETHING in WLM, probably the database compression section, has 
problems handling newsgroups posts that were sent in a way that also had a 
copy going to an email address.  This problem often hangs the program in a 
way that, when I notice it it no longer doing anything useful and kill the 
WLM program, leave it in a state where several of this kind of message will 
be recovered during the next WLM start, but also with something left behind 
in the corresponding active newsgroup folder that interferes with future 
copies of its messages to a storage folder.  I'm unable to tell just what it 
leaves behind, but after the next download from the same newsgroups server, 
a second copy of each of those recovered messages in in the active newsgroup 
folder, with some kind of option that interrupts any attempt to copy a block 
of messages including any of these second copies to a storage folder, with 
an error message during the Copying messages... phase:


The selected message(s) could not be copied.

An error has occurred.


Although this error message implies that no messages were copied 
successfully, what I actually find is that all messages up to the first 
second copy of a message sent to both the newsgroup and an email address 
were copied successfully; not clear just what happens to copying the second 
copy message, but all messages after it fail to copy.

I have not seen this problem occur for such messages already in a storage 
folder or a recovered messages folder.

I'd like to see the following change, either as the default or as an option: 
Such attempted copies should  not fail just because one of the messages to 
be copied is a second copy of a message sent both to the newsgroup and to an 
email address.

If you need newsgroups to use for finding messages sent to both a newsgroup 
and email, try alt.support.crohns-colitis (at least the messages from 2005) 
and alt.html ( at least the messages from 2007).

6.  WLM (and also Windows Mail) allow putting more than one copy of the same 
newsgroup post into a storage folder.  I'd like to see a way to detect such 
duplicates and offer the chance to delete the extra copies, with the user 
able to choose whether to delete only copies from the same newsgroups 
server, or if the headers are not of interest, any messages with the same 
with a duplicate Message-ID: line and a duplicate body.  This should allow 
users to see the differences in pairs of messages with a duplicate 
Message-ID: line but a body that is not a duplicate, so that the user can 
decide which one to delete, if either.

This should also work for comparing messages that are currently in two 
separate folders, even if one of those folders is on a separate computer 
under an account for which the user has the username and password,
with one of the two folders chosen as the one to delete messages from.

After WLM has copied a Windows Mail database, I'd like to see it able to 
find and delete the Windows Mail copies of messages in a specific pair of 
folders. one for WLM and one for Windows Mail, in order to avoid any 
potential problems with doubling the total number of Windows Mail database 
files by creating a second copy of each for WLM.  (For over two months, I've 
been unable to make any successful backups, apparantly due to the very large 
numbers of files holding unread newsgroups posts.  The backups always fail 
before they reach the third of the DVD+RW disks needed to hold a backup as 
close to complete as the Windows Vista Home Premium version of the backup 
program will allow, and that version won't allow any less complete backups 
if there is no full, successful backup in its backups list.)


Computer details:
HP d5200t
8 GB memory
64-bit Windows Vista Home Premium SP2
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU  Q9650 @3.0 GHz
motherboard cannot hold any more RAM

Robert Miles 


0
robertmiles
6/21/2010 4:46:24 PM
windows.live.mail.desktop 2735 articles. 9 followers. Follow

3 Replies
2195 Views

Similar Articles

[PageSpeed] 19

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:46:24 -0500, robertmiles@bellsouthNOSPAM.net wrote:

> Multiple problems with WLM
> 
> I realize that this problems list is long enough that it's unlikely that 
> just one person will be able to solve them all.  Therefore, it's OK to reply 
> only for the one you can handle.  Since some of these problems may be 
> related, I decided to list them all in one post.
> 
> 1.  The All news view in the Quick views is either mislabelled, or unable to 
> handle very large collections of unread newsgroups posts ...

<snip>

> If it counts only posts downloaded in the current session, or something else 
> like that, its name should be changed to reflect this.

The nature of Usenet is extremely dynamic. There is no client which can
accurately reflect the number of posts. I don't see MS making this change.

> 2.  Trying to move very large groups of posts (often over 100,000 at a time) 
> from an active newsgroup to a storage folder often results in a Data 
> Execution Error ...

I have never tried to move every Usenet post in a group to a folder. If I
was that interested in saving old articles, I'd run my own news server.

At this point all that I can say is that you appear to be requesting
specific changes in the WLM code to suit your specific tastes. If the MS
programmers were to try to tailor any software to every users specific
tastes, the software would never run as well as it does now. Not saying that
it runs well now, but trying to customize to suit every request posted here
would just make things worse.

-- 
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
0
N
6/21/2010 5:07:43 PM
I doubt any of those requests(1, 2, 4, 5, and 6) are even close to making the 'will consider' list in Wave 4 or any Wave 
thereafter.....wysiwyg

For 3...the error indicates that WLM was still running in the background.
Ensure you exit from Mail mode(not News, Calendar, Feeds etc)

To improve your ability to reduce disk space
Mail Mode
File/Work Offline
File/Exit

-- 
  ...winston
  ms-mvp mail

<robertmiles@bellsouthNOSPAM.net> wrote in message news:eFPY8EWELHA.5500@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Multiple problems with WLM
>
> I realize that this problems list is long enough that it's unlikely that just one person will be able to solve them all. 
> Therefore, it's OK to reply only for the one you can handle.  Since some of these problems may be related, I decided to list them 
> all in one post.
>
> 1.  The All news view in the Quick views is either mislabelled, or unable to handle very large collections of unread newsgroups 
> posts (I first saw this problem when the count was over 1,000,000, WLM was restarted, and the count dropped much lower (under 
> 50,000).  Since then I've seen similar drops from over 500,000 to much lower twice; it now shows 40627, but the number of unread 
> newsgroups posts in some of the larger newsgroups are:
>
> 51693
> 307120
> 238363
> 100225
> 62188
>
> If it counts only posts downloaded in the current session, or something else like that, its name should be changed to reflect 
> this.
>
> 2.  Trying to move very large groups of posts (often over 100,000 at a time) from an active newsgroup to a storage folder often 
> results in a Data Execution Error, often with a side effect of causing problems in another program running at the same time 
> (specifically, a BOINC workunit from The Lattice Project that refuses to try to run with less than nearly 1.2 GB allocated to its 
> program; judging by previous experience, it will probably continue running at least 150 more hours, with NO usable checkpoints 
> past the one a few days ago).  I may have also seen such errors when trying to move smaller groups of posts from an active 
> newsgroup with over 100,000 posts to a storage folder.
>
> 3.  Shutting down WLM now always gives a window saying:
>
>
> Recover unused disk space?
>
> You may be able to recover unused disk space. Your
> messages won't be moved or compressed.
>
>
> The reason I always see this may have something to do with the fact that when I installed WLM, I had Windows Mail set to allow 
> very low numbers of runs (perhaps only 1) between database compressions.
>
> However, when I click the Yes button for this message, even after waiting a few minutes, I always get an error message, seconds 
> after it attempts to start the compression:
>
>
> The folder is currently in use by Windows Live Mail or
> by another application.
>
>
> If the conflicting program happens to be WLM itself, could an option be added to allow more time between when the main part of 
> the program closes whatever folder is involved, and the time the database compression part trys to open any folders?
>
> Could that error message be changed to be more specific about exactly what program is using the folder?
>
> 4.  Trying to import my Windows Mail message database into WLM gives me these error messages plus a few more:
>
>
> Windows Mail could not be started.  The application
> was unable to open the Windows Mail message store.
> Your Windows Mail mailbox data is currently being
> used by another program, such as a virus scanner.
> Close the program or wait for it to complete its
> operation, then opem Windows Mail again.
> (0x800C0155)
>
> Windows Mail could not be started because MSOE.DLL could not be
> initialized.
>
>
> Could this error message also be changed to say more about exactly which other program is using the Windows Mail database?  All 
> my guesses have failed, and even rebooting the computer does not allow Windows Mail to start without this problem.  This leaves 
> me unable to import the messages part of the Windows Mail database - currently estimated at over 2,000,000 messages, counting 
> both email and newsgroups posts, into WLM.
>
> Or, if you prefer, either modify WLM or add a program to its executables folder to allow importing the Windows Mail database 
> without trying to start Windows Mail even in a special mode to help send the database to WLM.
>
>
> 5.  An earlier attempt to import the Windows Mail database was able to import part of the message database , but failed when it 
> reached a Windows Mail storage folder holding about 126,000 unread newsgroup posts.  The Window Mail program was, at that time, 
> unable to open that folder when using the usual method of arranging messages by their timestamp of when they were sent; WLM was 
> apparantly able to import all the folders it decided to import before this very large folder, and about 90,000 of the posts in 
> this folder, but then the import process hung and I killed WLM a few hours later.
>
> This old partially imported WLM database was backed up on DVDs, but then both the WLM database and the Windows Mail database were 
> lost during a hard drive replacement, and I was unable to restore them in usable condition from the backups.  Apparantly, the 
> list of previous backups was also lost, and therefore the backup program was unable to recognize the backup as one from the same 
> computer, so it restored the files, but not in a directory tree where the programs could use them.  It appears that the backup 
> program needs some instructions specific to restoring entire WLM and Windows Mail databases for a user, but not a blind restore 
> of everything it can for all users; it currently does not have them.  (I'm using Windows Vista Home Premium, so making a complete 
> backup of the hard drive, including executables and system files, was not an option.)
>
> 6.  SOMETHING in WLM, probably the database compression section, has problems handling newsgroups posts that were sent in a way 
> that also had a copy going to an email address.  This problem often hangs the program in a way that, when I notice it it no 
> longer doing anything useful and kill the WLM program, leave it in a state where several of this kind of message will be 
> recovered during the next WLM start, but also with something left behind in the corresponding active newsgroup folder that 
> interferes with future copies of its messages to a storage folder.  I'm unable to tell just what it leaves behind, but after the 
> next download from the same newsgroups server, a second copy of each of those recovered messages in in the active newsgroup 
> folder, with some kind of option that interrupts any attempt to copy a block of messages including any of these second copies to 
> a storage folder, with an error message during the Copying messages... phase:
>
>
> The selected message(s) could not be copied.
>
> An error has occurred.
>
>
> Although this error message implies that no messages were copied successfully, what I actually find is that all messages up to 
> the first second copy of a message sent to both the newsgroup and an email address were copied successfully; not clear just what 
> happens to copying the second copy message, but all messages after it fail to copy.
>
> I have not seen this problem occur for such messages already in a storage folder or a recovered messages folder.
>
> I'd like to see the following change, either as the default or as an option: Such attempted copies should  not fail just because 
> one of the messages to be copied is a second copy of a message sent both to the newsgroup and to an email address.
>
> If you need newsgroups to use for finding messages sent to both a newsgroup and email, try alt.support.crohns-colitis (at least 
> the messages from 2005) and alt.html ( at least the messages from 2007).
>
> 6.  WLM (and also Windows Mail) allow putting more than one copy of the same newsgroup post into a storage folder.  I'd like to 
> see a way to detect such duplicates and offer the chance to delete the extra copies, with the user able to choose whether to 
> delete only copies from the same newsgroups server, or if the headers are not of interest, any messages with the same with a 
> duplicate Message-ID: line and a duplicate body.  This should allow users to see the differences in pairs of messages with a 
> duplicate Message-ID: line but a body that is not a duplicate, so that the user can decide which one to delete, if either.
>
> This should also work for comparing messages that are currently in two separate folders, even if one of those folders is on a 
> separate computer under an account for which the user has the username and password,
>with one of the two folders chosen as the one to delete messages from.
>
> After WLM has copied a Windows Mail database, I'd like to see it able to find and delete the Windows Mail copies of messages in a 
> specific pair of folders. one for WLM and one for Windows Mail, in order to avoid any potential problems with doubling the total 
> number of Windows Mail database files by creating a second copy of each for WLM.  (For over two months, I've been unable to make 
> any successful backups, apparantly due to the very large numbers of files holding unread newsgroups posts.  The backups always 
> fail before they reach the third of the DVD+RW disks needed to hold a backup as close to complete as the Windows Vista Home 
> Premium version of the backup program will allow, and that version won't allow any less complete backups if there is no full, 
> successful backup in its backups list.)
>
>
> Computer details:
> HP d5200t
> 8 GB memory
> 64-bit Windows Vista Home Premium SP2
> Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU  Q9650 @3.0 GHz
> motherboard cannot hold any more RAM
>
> Robert Miles
> 
0
winston
6/21/2010 6:44:11 PM
"N. Miller" <anonymous@msnews.aosake.net> wrote in message 
news:136kc6w2wiobl$.dlg@msnews.aosake.net...
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:46:24 -0500, robertmiles@bellsouthNOSPAM.net wrote:
>
>> Multiple problems with WLM
>>
>> I realize that this problems list is long enough that it's unlikely that
>> just one person will be able to solve them all.  Therefore, it's OK to 
>> reply
>> only for the one you can handle.  Since some of these problems may be
>> related, I decided to list them all in one post.
>>
>> 1.  The All news view in the Quick views is either mislabelled, or unable 
>> to
>> handle very large collections of unread newsgroups posts ...
>
> <snip>
>
>> If it counts only posts downloaded in the current session, or something 
>> else
>> like that, its name should be changed to reflect this.
>
> The nature of Usenet is extremely dynamic. There is no client which can
> accurately reflect the number of posts. I don't see MS making this change.
>
I'm not interested in having it list all the posts on Usenet - only the
number I have at least partially downloaded, and not already moved to 
storage
folders.

>> 2.  Trying to move very large groups of posts (often over 100,000 at a 
>> time)
>> from an active newsgroup to a storage folder often results in a Data
>> Execution Error ...
>
> I have never tried to move every Usenet post in a group to a folder. If I
> was that interested in saving old articles, I'd run my own news server.
>
I'm seldom interested in moving all the posts in a folder to a storage
folder - only those I've decided are old enough I'll never answer even
if I get around to reading them.

> At this point all that I can say is that you appear to be requesting
> specific changes in the WLM code to suit your specific tastes. If the MS
> programmers were to try to tailor any software to every users specific
> tastes, the software would never run as well as it does now. Not saying 
> that
> it runs well now, but trying to customize to suit every request posted 
> here
> would just make things worse.
>
> -- 
> Norman

Then can you suggest another newsreader capable of importing all
the posts in both Windows Mail and Windows Live Mail, including
those already in storage folders?

Robert Miles 


0
robertmiles
9/9/2010 4:36:17 AM
Reply:

Similar Artilces: