Deep in DLL hell

Ok, I'm using VC++ 5.0, and my mfc42d.dll is from 1997 
while my mfc42.dll is from 2001. What can be more 
frustrating than a project that runs flawlessly in debug 
mode, and not at all in release mode? I'm not doing 
anything undocumented as far as I know, but I am using a 
windows hook. I am getting an Unhandled Exception in 
MFC42.DLL 0x00000005, plus other major glitches.

Will mfc continue to give me compatibility problems? Maybe 
I shouldn't use it anymore. I would like to write dlls and 
exes that are compatible with all versions of windows, and 
I'm thinking that mfc is not the answer.
0
ricardo (21)
8/1/2003 11:08:29 PM
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I think you need to upgrade to a newer compiler/IDE/MFC.

Do you realize how old VC++ 5 is?

    WTH

"RichM" <ricardo@socket.net> wrote in message
news:03bb01c35881$d1dd69c0$a401280a@phx.gbl...
> Ok, I'm using VC++ 5.0, and my mfc42d.dll is from 1997
> while my mfc42.dll is from 2001. What can be more
> frustrating than a project that runs flawlessly in debug
> mode, and not at all in release mode? I'm not doing
> anything undocumented as far as I know, but I am using a
> windows hook. I am getting an Unhandled Exception in
> MFC42.DLL 0x00000005, plus other major glitches.
>
> Will mfc continue to give me compatibility problems? Maybe
> I shouldn't use it anymore. I would like to write dlls and
> exes that are compatible with all versions of windows, and
> I'm thinking that mfc is not the answer.


0
spamsucks (94)
8/2/2003 2:08:19 AM
RichM

Even though not impossible, I would deem it quite unlikely that you have
some compatibility porblems due to the MFC-version. In fact, this would mean
that exes created with MSVC 5 would have increasing problems running on
modern Windows, which in my experience just is not true.

That an application works in debug, but not in release, has many reasons due
to probramming errors rather than anything else. The debug version
initialoizes variables, whereas the release version does not, for example.
Joe Newcomers essay http://www.flounder.com/debug_release.htm might be of
interest.

Upgrading to MSVC 6 might anyway be an option, I'm getting to like it more
and more as a development environment after heavy sessions of development
using other tools:-)))

Johan Rosengren
Abstrakt Mekanik AB

"RichM" <ricardo@socket.net> wrote in message
news:03bb01c35881$d1dd69c0$a401280a@phx.gbl...
> Ok, I'm using VC++ 5.0, and my mfc42d.dll is from 1997
> while my mfc42.dll is from 2001. What can be more
> frustrating than a project that runs flawlessly in debug
> mode, and not at all in release mode? I'm not doing
> anything undocumented as far as I know, but I am using a
> windows hook. I am getting an Unhandled Exception in
> MFC42.DLL 0x00000005, plus other major glitches.
>
> Will mfc continue to give me compatibility problems? Maybe
> I shouldn't use it anymore. I would like to write dlls and
> exes that are compatible with all versions of windows, and
> I'm thinking that mfc is not the answer.


0
8/2/2003 4:16:40 AM
Is there any problem (other than the exe/dll size) which restricts you
not to statically link to MFC DLLs?

The reason why I am asking is your old version of MFC42.dll will be
replaced by so many apps, which use new versions...

Finally, with MFC versioning, this has always been a trade-off. It
carries the overhead of MFC libraries, but you gain the rich
functionality...

It depends on the type of applications you develop...for UI apps, this
is almost unavoidable.. for DLLs, you might consider avoidng it.
If you are using the data structures from MFC in your app, maybe you
need to start using STL...

--Rao.
0
trn_study (2)
8/2/2003 5:50:33 AM
My approach has been to statically link MFC inside my EXE. That way, I never
have to worry about problems such as this.

--
Jonathan Wood
SoftCircuits Programming
http://www.softcircuits.com
"RichM" <ricardo@socket.net> wrote in message
news:03bb01c35881$d1dd69c0$a401280a@phx.gbl...
> Ok, I'm using VC++ 5.0, and my mfc42d.dll is from 1997
> while my mfc42.dll is from 2001. What can be more
> frustrating than a project that runs flawlessly in debug
> mode, and not at all in release mode? I'm not doing
> anything undocumented as far as I know, but I am using a
> windows hook. I am getting an Unhandled Exception in
> MFC42.DLL 0x00000005, plus other major glitches.
>
> Will mfc continue to give me compatibility problems? Maybe
> I shouldn't use it anymore. I would like to write dlls and
> exes that are compatible with all versions of windows, and
> I'm thinking that mfc is not the answer.


0
jwood (1292)
8/2/2003 6:24:29 AM
I'm pretty religious about initializing variables myself, 
but if I missed one I don't know how to find it because 
when I debug it... it works! Why on earth would they play 
such a mean trick as to design a compiler that gives you 
a 'safety net' in debug mode! Safety nets are a big no no 
in programming. If I make a mistake, I want my program to 
fail spectacularly! While debugging! I wanted to show a 
friend my great new dll, and it was like, wow nice message 
box.

I'm really poor, I'm not sure I can afford a new compiler 
right now, or else I definately would upgrade. Thanks 
everyone! Your responses were definately helpful. I can 
see that for UI dll stuff, static is the way to go.

>-----Original Message-----
>RichM
>
>Even though not impossible, I would deem it quite 
unlikely that you have
>some compatibility porblems due to the MFC-version. In 
fact, this would mean
>that exes created with MSVC 5 would have increasing 
problems running on
>modern Windows, which in my experience just is not true.
>
>That an application works in debug, but not in release, 
has many reasons due
>to probramming errors rather than anything else. The 
debug version
>initialoizes variables, whereas the release version does 
not, for example.
>Joe Newcomers essay 
http://www.flounder.com/debug_release.htm might be of
>interest.
>
>Upgrading to MSVC 6 might anyway be an option, I'm 
getting to like it more
>and more as a development environment after heavy 
sessions of development
>using other tools:-)))
>
>Johan Rosengren
>Abstrakt Mekanik AB
>
>"RichM" <ricardo@socket.net> wrote in message
>news:03bb01c35881$d1dd69c0$a401280a@phx.gbl...
>> Ok, I'm using VC++ 5.0, and my mfc42d.dll is from 1997
>> while my mfc42.dll is from 2001. What can be more
>> frustrating than a project that runs flawlessly in debug
>> mode, and not at all in release mode? I'm not doing
>> anything undocumented as far as I know, but I am using a
>> windows hook. I am getting an Unhandled Exception in
>> MFC42.DLL 0x00000005, plus other major glitches.
>>
>> Will mfc continue to give me compatibility problems? 
Maybe
>> I shouldn't use it anymore. I would like to write dlls 
and
>> exes that are compatible with all versions of windows, 
and
>> I'm thinking that mfc is not the answer.
>
>
>.
>
0
ricardo (21)
8/2/2003 1:56:57 PM
This article answers everything. Everyone should read it! 
Apparently you just can't do what I am doing. You 
absolutely must have matching mfc dlls, or you're asking 
for trouble.

I really did not know that the release version could be so 
different than the debug in so many important ways. Thanks 
again!
 
>-----Original Message-----
>RichM
>
>Even though not impossible, I would deem it quite 
unlikely that you have
>some compatibility porblems due to the MFC-version. In 
fact, this would mean
>that exes created with MSVC 5 would have increasing 
problems running on
>modern Windows, which in my experience just is not true.
>
>That an application works in debug, but not in release, 
has many reasons due
>to probramming errors rather than anything else. The 
debug version
>initialoizes variables, whereas the release version does 
not, for example.
>Joe Newcomers essay 
http://www.flounder.com/debug_release.htm might be of
>interest.
>
>Upgrading to MSVC 6 might anyway be an option, I'm 
getting to like it more
>and more as a development environment after heavy 
sessions of development
>using other tools:-)))
>
>Johan Rosengren
>Abstrakt Mekanik AB
>
>"RichM" <ricardo@socket.net> wrote in message
>news:03bb01c35881$d1dd69c0$a401280a@phx.gbl...
>> Ok, I'm using VC++ 5.0, and my mfc42d.dll is from 1997
>> while my mfc42.dll is from 2001. What can be more
>> frustrating than a project that runs flawlessly in debug
>> mode, and not at all in release mode? I'm not doing
>> anything undocumented as far as I know, but I am using a
>> windows hook. I am getting an Unhandled Exception in
>> MFC42.DLL 0x00000005, plus other major glitches.
>>
>> Will mfc continue to give me compatibility problems? 
Maybe
>> I shouldn't use it anymore. I would like to write dlls 
and
>> exes that are compatible with all versions of windows, 
and
>> I'm thinking that mfc is not the answer.
>
>
>.
>
0
ricardo (21)
8/2/2003 2:15:59 PM
Because it makes sense. Debugging optimized code is HARD, because code motions change the
behavior in ways that make debugging difficult. Of course, you are free to debug your code
any way you want; you can turn on full optimizations, for example. But it will definitely
give you weird results. See my essay "Surviving the Release Version" on my MVP Tips site.

The point of the "safety net" is that in debug mode, it almost certainly WILL fail
"spectacularly", whereas in release mode it is more likely to corrupt something that will
cause a crash 20 minutes later. But, as I point out in my essay, there are ways in which
bugs can avoid the debug mode safety net and only show up in release mode. 
					joe

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 06:56:57 -0700, "RichM" <ricardo@socket.net> wrote:

>I'm pretty religious about initializing variables myself, 
>but if I missed one I don't know how to find it because 
>when I debug it... it works! Why on earth would they play 
>such a mean trick as to design a compiler that gives you 
>a 'safety net' in debug mode! Safety nets are a big no no 
>in programming. If I make a mistake, I want my program to 
>fail spectacularly! While debugging! I wanted to show a 
>friend my great new dll, and it was like, wow nice message 
>box.
>
>I'm really poor, I'm not sure I can afford a new compiler 
>right now, or else I definately would upgrade. Thanks 
>everyone! Your responses were definately helpful. I can 
>see that for UI dll stuff, static is the way to go.
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>RichM
>>
>>Even though not impossible, I would deem it quite 
>unlikely that you have
>>some compatibility porblems due to the MFC-version. In 
>fact, this would mean
>>that exes created with MSVC 5 would have increasing 
>problems running on
>>modern Windows, which in my experience just is not true.
>>
>>That an application works in debug, but not in release, 
>has many reasons due
>>to probramming errors rather than anything else. The 
>debug version
>>initialoizes variables, whereas the release version does 
>not, for example.
>>Joe Newcomers essay 
>http://www.flounder.com/debug_release.htm might be of
>>interest.
>>
>>Upgrading to MSVC 6 might anyway be an option, I'm 
>getting to like it more
>>and more as a development environment after heavy 
>sessions of development
>>using other tools:-)))
>>
>>Johan Rosengren
>>Abstrakt Mekanik AB
>>
>>"RichM" <ricardo@socket.net> wrote in message
>>news:03bb01c35881$d1dd69c0$a401280a@phx.gbl...
>>> Ok, I'm using VC++ 5.0, and my mfc42d.dll is from 1997
>>> while my mfc42.dll is from 2001. What can be more
>>> frustrating than a project that runs flawlessly in debug
>>> mode, and not at all in release mode? I'm not doing
>>> anything undocumented as far as I know, but I am using a
>>> windows hook. I am getting an Unhandled Exception in
>>> MFC42.DLL 0x00000005, plus other major glitches.
>>>
>>> Will mfc continue to give me compatibility problems? 
>Maybe
>>> I shouldn't use it anymore. I would like to write dlls 
>and
>>> exes that are compatible with all versions of windows, 
>and
>>> I'm thinking that mfc is not the answer.
>>
>>
>>.
>>

Joseph M. Newcomer [MVP]
email: newcomer@flounder.com
Web: http://www.flounder.com
MVP Tips: http://www.flounder.com/mvp_tips.htm
0
newcomer (15975)
8/2/2003 8:34:40 PM
I have over a decade of VC experience and concluded years 
ago that statically linking MFC is the only safe way to 
go.  Anything else will end up being a nightmare just 
like you're discovering.
0
c.ferg (1)
8/4/2003 11:14:17 AM
The only correct solution to DLL hell is to link stactically. You already know 
about the inherent reliability problems in using MFC DLLs; what you might not 
realize is that your final distribution package will also be smaller, since 
the linker is very good at renmoving unnecessary MFC garbage from most small 
apps.

-- 
Jim Johnson 
0
jamos (15)
8/8/2003 1:43:51 PM
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