Funky Font Enumeration

Just noticed something really odd.  If you enumerate fonts using 
standard VB methods, a bunch of them are returned twice, once with a 
leading ampersand.  What's up with that?  Repro:

   Public Sub Main()
      Dim i As Long, s As String
      Set s = New CStringBuilder
      For i = 0 To Screen.FontCount - 1
         Debug.Print Screen.Fonts(i)
         s = s & Screen.Fonts(i) & vbCrLf
      Next i
      Clipboard.Clear
      Clipboard.SetText s
   End Sub

You'll see things like this in the output:

   <...snip...>
   Adobe Caslon Pro Bold
   Adobe Caslon Pro
   Adobe Fangsong Std R
   @Adobe Fangsong Std R
   Adobe Heiti Std R
   @Adobe Heiti Std R
   Adobe Kaiti Std R
   @Adobe Kaiti Std R
   Adobe Ming Std L
   @Adobe Ming Std L
   Adobe Myungjo Std M
   @Adobe Myungjo Std M
   Adobe Song Std L
   @Adobe Song Std L
   Adobe Garamond Pro Bold
   Adobe Garamond Pro
   <...snip...>
   Arial
   Arabic Transparent
   Arial Baltic
   Arial CE
   Arial CYR
   Arial Greek
   Arial TUR
   Batang
   @Batang
   BatangChe
   @BatangChe
   Gungsuh
   @Gungsuh
   GungsuhChe
   @GungsuhChe
   Courier New
   Courier New Baltic
   Courier New CE
   Courier New CYR
   Courier New Greek
   Courier New TUR
   <...snip...>

I thought perhaps they were the mysterious "hidden" fonts in Windows 7, 
but that's not it.  While those Batang* fonts are hidden, the Adobe* 
ones aren't.  On this system.  Anyone know WTH those ampersands mean?

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/8/2010 6:16:45 PM
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Karl,

Sorry, I don't know the answer to your question.

However, @ isn't an ampersand. An amperand is &. According to MS Character 
Map applet, @ is a 'Commercial At' sign.

So I guess you want to ask: Anyone know WTH those 'Commercial At's mean? :)

Tim Rude

"Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message 
news:i68jug$ljs$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Just noticed something really odd.  If you enumerate fonts using standard 
> VB methods, a bunch of them are returned twice, once with a leading 
> ampersand.  What's up with that?  Repro:

<snip>

> I thought perhaps they were the mysterious "hidden" fonts in Windows 7, 
> but that's not it.  While those Batang* fonts are hidden, the Adobe* ones 
> aren't.  On this system.  Anyone know WTH those ampersands mean?
>

0
Tim
9/8/2010 7:09:18 PM
Tim Rude brought next idea :
> Karl,
>
> Sorry, I don't know the answer to your question.
>
> However, @ isn't an ampersand. An amperand is &. According to MS Character 
> Map applet, @ is a 'Commercial At' sign.
>
> So I guess you want to ask: Anyone know WTH those 'Commercial At's mean? :)

Yeah, realized I'd misspoken right after posting that.

So, ..., WTH??? <g>

Fwiw, I just compared the output with EnumFontFamilies on Windows 7, 
and it's identical.  No such critters under an XP VM, here, either.

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/8/2010 7:18:47 PM
True Type Collection


"Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message 
news:i68jug$ljs$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Just noticed something really odd.  If you enumerate fonts using standard 
> VB methods, a bunch of them are returned twice, once with a leading 
> ampersand.  What's up with that?  Repro:
>
>   Public Sub Main()
>      Dim i As Long, s As String
>      Set s = New CStringBuilder
>      For i = 0 To Screen.FontCount - 1
>         Debug.Print Screen.Fonts(i)
>         s = s & Screen.Fonts(i) & vbCrLf
>      Next i
>      Clipboard.Clear
>      Clipboard.SetText s
>   End Sub
>
> You'll see things like this in the output:
>
>   <...snip...>
>   Adobe Caslon Pro Bold
>   Adobe Caslon Pro
>   Adobe Fangsong Std R
>   @Adobe Fangsong Std R
>   Adobe Heiti Std R
>   @Adobe Heiti Std R
>   Adobe Kaiti Std R
>   @Adobe Kaiti Std R
>   Adobe Ming Std L
>   @Adobe Ming Std L
>   Adobe Myungjo Std M
>   @Adobe Myungjo Std M
>   Adobe Song Std L
>   @Adobe Song Std L
>   Adobe Garamond Pro Bold
>   Adobe Garamond Pro
>   <...snip...>
>   Arial
>   Arabic Transparent
>   Arial Baltic
>   Arial CE
>   Arial CYR
>   Arial Greek
>   Arial TUR
>   Batang
>   @Batang
>   BatangChe
>   @BatangChe
>   Gungsuh
>   @Gungsuh
>   GungsuhChe
>   @GungsuhChe
>   Courier New
>   Courier New Baltic
>   Courier New CE
>   Courier New CYR
>   Courier New Greek
>   Courier New TUR
>   <...snip...>
>
> I thought perhaps they were the mysterious "hidden" fonts in Windows 7, 
> but that's not it.  While those Batang* fonts are hidden, the Adobe* ones 
> aren't.  On this system.  Anyone know WTH those ampersands mean?
>
> -- 
> .NET: It's About Trust!
> http://vfred.mvps.org
>
> 

0
VB
9/8/2010 7:19:42 PM
@ sign means Asian character rotated 90 degree. Traditonally chinese 
character is written from top to bottom.
It makes sense when printed out. But don't make me explain.

"Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message 
news:i68jug$ljs$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Just noticed something really odd.  If you enumerate fonts using standard 
> VB methods, a bunch of them are returned twice, once with a leading 
> ampersand.  What's up with that?  Repro:
>
>   Public Sub Main()
>      Dim i As Long, s As String
>      Set s = New CStringBuilder
>      For i = 0 To Screen.FontCount - 1
>         Debug.Print Screen.Fonts(i)
>         s = s & Screen.Fonts(i) & vbCrLf
>      Next i
>      Clipboard.Clear
>      Clipboard.SetText s
>   End Sub
>
> You'll see things like this in the output:
>
>   <...snip...>
>   Adobe Caslon Pro Bold
>   Adobe Caslon Pro
>   Adobe Fangsong Std R
>   @Adobe Fangsong Std R
>   Adobe Heiti Std R
>   @Adobe Heiti Std R
>   Adobe Kaiti Std R
>   @Adobe Kaiti Std R
>   Adobe Ming Std L
>   @Adobe Ming Std L
>   Adobe Myungjo Std M
>   @Adobe Myungjo Std M
>   Adobe Song Std L
>   @Adobe Song Std L
>   Adobe Garamond Pro Bold
>   Adobe Garamond Pro
>   <...snip...>
>   Arial
>   Arabic Transparent
>   Arial Baltic
>   Arial CE
>   Arial CYR
>   Arial Greek
>   Arial TUR
>   Batang
>   @Batang
>   BatangChe
>   @BatangChe
>   Gungsuh
>   @Gungsuh
>   GungsuhChe
>   @GungsuhChe
>   Courier New
>   Courier New Baltic
>   Courier New CE
>   Courier New CYR
>   Courier New Greek
>   Courier New TUR
>   <...snip...>
>
> I thought perhaps they were the mysterious "hidden" fonts in Windows 7, 
> but that's not it.  While those Batang* fonts are hidden, the Adobe* ones 
> aren't.  On this system.  Anyone know WTH those ampersands mean?
>
> -- 
> .NET: It's About Trust!
> http://vfred.mvps.org
>
> 


0
Phil
9/8/2010 7:30:02 PM
Karl E. Peterson laid this down on his screen :
> Just noticed something really odd.  If you enumerate fonts using standard VB 
> methods, a bunch of them are returned twice, once with a leading ampersand.  
> What's up with that?  

Okay, it was actually a "commercial at" (@) symbol, not an "ampersand" 
(&).  That aside, here's the first clue:

http://www.ms-news.net/f2733/fonts-prefix-4070282.html

Isn't/Wasn't Uwe a regular here?  Looks like this definitely goes back. 
 That thread was dated 2004!  S/he says to search on "true type 
collection" for further clues.  That ringing any bells here?

Searching...

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/8/2010 7:30:24 PM
VB 6 Devotee formulated the question :
> True Type Collection

Ahhh, yeah, had just found that.  So...  Significance?

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/8/2010 7:30:56 PM
Phil Hunt presented the following explanation :
> @ sign means Asian character rotated 90 degree. Traditonally chinese 
> character is written from top to bottom.
> It makes sense when printed out. But don't make me explain.

Okay, this is definitely getting confusing.  The thread I pointed to 
earlier also has both explanations - rotated Asian *and* TTC.

The TTC thing stands up to futher searches, though I still have trouble 
grasping the significance of it.

I guess what I'm getting around to is, if you're building a list of 
fonts for a user to choose from (without using the built-in ChooseFont 
dialog, of course), what do you do with these critters?  And why?

Thanks...   Karl

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/8/2010 7:43:00 PM
Just another font.
Choose it if you want it.

"Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message 
news:i68p08$fcj$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Phil Hunt presented the following explanation :
>> @ sign means Asian character rotated 90 degree. Traditonally chinese 
>> character is written from top to bottom.
>> It makes sense when printed out. But don't make me explain.
>
> Okay, this is definitely getting confusing.  The thread I pointed to 
> earlier also has both explanations - rotated Asian *and* TTC.
>
> The TTC thing stands up to futher searches, though I still have trouble 
> grasping the significance of it.
>
> I guess what I'm getting around to is, if you're building a list of fonts 
> for a user to choose from (without using the built-in ChooseFont dialog, 
> of course), what do you do with these critters?  And why?
>
> Thanks...   Karl
>
> -- 
> .NET: It's About Trust!
> http://vfred.mvps.org
>
> 


0
Phil
9/8/2010 7:52:04 PM
VB 6 Devotee used his keyboard to write :
> True Type Collection

Hmmmm, seems I'm also getting @'s on fonts that come in OTF files, 
too...

And, neither filetype assures getting an @ listing...

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/8/2010 7:57:36 PM
Phil Hunt formulated the question :
>> I guess what I'm getting around to is, if you're building a list of fonts 
>> for a user to choose from (without using the built-in ChooseFont dialog, of 
>> course), what do you do with these critters?  And why?
>
> Just another font.
> Choose it if you want it.

Not sure about that.  Word doesn't offer it, for example.

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/8/2010 7:58:31 PM
Word has a chinese version too. It will/may show up if you are using one.

"Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message 
news:i68pta$jvc$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Phil Hunt formulated the question :
>>> I guess what I'm getting around to is, if you're building a list of 
>>> fonts for a user to choose from (without using the built-in ChooseFont 
>>> dialog, of course), what do you do with these critters?  And why?
>>
>> Just another font.
>> Choose it if you want it.
>
> Not sure about that.  Word doesn't offer it, for example.
>
> -- 
> .NET: It's About Trust!
> http://vfred.mvps.org
>
> 


0
Phil
9/8/2010 8:01:19 PM
"Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message 
news:i68o8k$c3b$1@news.eternal-september.org...
:
: http://www.ms-news.net/f2733/fonts-prefix-4070282.html
:
: Isn't/Wasn't Uwe a regular here?  Looks like this definitely goes back.
: That thread was dated 2004!  S/he says to search on "true type
: collection" for further clues.  That ringing any bells here?
:
: Searching...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueType#TrueType_Collection


0
Kevin
9/8/2010 9:12:37 PM
"Kevin Provance" <k@p.c> wrote in message 
news:i68u84$8bs$1@news.eternal-september.org...
:
: "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message
: news:i68o8k$c3b$1@news.eternal-september.org...
::
:: http://www.ms-news.net/f2733/fonts-prefix-4070282.html
::
:: Isn't/Wasn't Uwe a regular here?  Looks like this definitely goes back.
:: That thread was dated 2004!  S/he says to search on "true type
:: collection" for further clues.  That ringing any bells here?
::
:: Searching...
:
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueType#TrueType_Collection

This being said, it appears the fonts with the @ symbol are "forks" of the 
font file (since those particular files are different collections in one 
file) that has the alternate characters for the unicode languages. 
Apparently this was done to save space, instead of having multiple files for 
one font when only x number of extra entries were required for the 
additional languages.

That's my take on it.

There were a ton of other articles using this all too generic search phrase: 
http://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+a+truetype+collection&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


0
Kevin
9/8/2010 9:18:10 PM
"Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message 
news:i68jug$ljs$1@news.eternal-september.org...

> Just noticed something really odd.  If you enumerate fonts using standard 
> VB methods, a bunch of them are returned twice, once
> with a leading ampersand.  What's up with that?  Repro:

Actually you get the same if you enumerate fonts using most API methods, 
such as EnumFontFamiliesEx. Although you'll find that most of the @ fonts 
are in collections, and that on many machines many of them are Korean or 
Asian fonts, I think the actual significance of the @ sign is that those 
fonts are licenced for linking and embedding. I believe that one use for 
them is in the creation of web pages where the font can be linked to and 
displayed on the page without it needing to be installed on the system of 
the person who is viewing that page, a sort of extension to the old "web 
safe fonts". Personally I don't get involved in web page creation myself, 
but there are probably others here who do and who will be able to give you 
more details (if indeed those fonts are actually what I have said they 
are!). Here is one link I have just turned up that mentions them in that 
regard:

http://blog.themeforest.net/tutorials/css-font-face-and-15-free-fonts-you-can-use-today/

Since they are in almost all cases duplicated in the font list without the 
leading @ sign I would personally just filter them out and ignore them when 
providing a user with a list of fonts for normal use.

Mike



0
Mike
9/8/2010 9:32:34 PM
Kevin Provance pretended :
> "Kevin Provance" <k@p.c> wrote in message 
> news:i68u84$8bs$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> 
>> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message
>> news:i68o8k$c3b$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> 
>>> http://www.ms-news.net/f2733/fonts-prefix-4070282.html
>>> 
>>> Isn't/Wasn't Uwe a regular here?  Looks like this definitely goes back.
>>> That thread was dated 2004!  S/he says to search on "true type
>>> collection" for further clues.  That ringing any bells here?
>>> 
>>> Searching...
>> 
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueType#TrueType_Collection

Yeah, I think that was the first hit I clicked, too. <g>

> This being said, it appears the fonts with the @ symbol are "forks" of the 
> font file (since those particular files are different collections in one 
> file) that has the alternate characters for the unicode languages. 
> Apparently this was done to save space, instead of having multiple files for 
> one font when only x number of extra entries were required for the 
> additional languages.
>
> That's my take on it.

So the real question is, then...  If *you* were building a font 
selection list, what fork do you take when you hit one of these?  (My 
inclination at this point is to just ignore them, but it'd be good to 
justify that. <g>)

> There were a ton of other articles using this all too generic search phrase: 
> http://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+a+truetype+collection&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Been browsing.  Bells haven't gone off yet.

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/8/2010 9:40:17 PM
on 9/8/2010, Phil Hunt supposed :
> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote...
>> Phil Hunt formulated the question :
>>>> I guess what I'm getting around to is, if you're building a list of fonts 
>>>> for a user to choose from (without using the built-in ChooseFont dialog, 
>>>> of course), what do you do with these critters?  And why?
>>>
>>> Just another font.
>>> Choose it if you want it.
>>
>> Not sure about that.  Word doesn't offer it, for example.
>
> Word has a chinese version too. It will/may show up if you are using one.

Okay, from what I can tell, Windows 7 now has the option to hide or 
show fonts.  However, the *only* thing that this applies to is the 
ChooseFont common dialog *and* the applets that ship with Windows 7 
itself.  (ie, wordpad)  They (MSFT) say there is no API to filter the 
list, so of course that's the challenge.  (Looks easy enough using the 
registry. <shrug>)

My gut is telling me to just ignore these @'d fonts entirely.  I 
suppose it could be an indication, too, that an alternative name is 
available in other locales?  I dunno, but it just doesn't seem that 
they offer anything more, in the way of user-choice, at all.

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/8/2010 9:43:24 PM
Mike Williams wrote :
> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote...
>
>> Just noticed something really odd.  If you enumerate fonts using standard 
>> VB methods, a bunch of them are returned twice, once
>> with a leading ampersand.  What's up with that?  Repro:
>
> Actually you get the same if you enumerate fonts using most API methods, such 
> as EnumFontFamiliesEx.

Yep, that was the next thing I tried, and found that to be exactly the 
case.  VB is just calling EnumFontFamilies (most likely, not the Ex 
flavor) and returning each and every callback.

> Although you'll find that most of the @ fonts are in 
> collections, and that on many machines many of them are Korean or Asian 
> fonts, I think the actual significance of the @ sign is that those fonts are 
> licenced for linking and embedding.

Oh wow!  Dim recollection, or might you have _any_ reference for that?

> I believe that one use for them is in the 
> creation of web pages where the font can be linked to and displayed on the 
> page without it needing to be installed on the system of the person who is 
> viewing that page, a sort of extension to the old "web safe fonts". 

Can't imagine the mechanics of that.  That is, by what means the font 
would be delivered to the browser that lacked it?

> Personally I don't get involved in web page creation myself, but there are 
> probably others here who do and who will be able to give you more details (if 
> indeed those fonts are actually what I have said they are!). Here is one link 
> I have just turned up that mentions them in that regard:
>
> http://blog.themeforest.net/tutorials/css-font-face-and-15-free-fonts-you-can-use-today/

Well check that out, thanks!

> Since they are in almost all cases duplicated in the font list without the 
> leading @ sign I would personally just filter them out and ignore them when 
> providing a user with a list of fonts for normal use.

I didn't find any that weren't dup'd on my system, so that's exactly my 
inclination at the moment too.  Sure would feel better if I could 
articulate why, though. <g>

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/8/2010 9:46:53 PM
"Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message 
news:i6908h$h73$1@news.eternal-september.org...

> I didn't find any that weren't dup'd on my system, so that's exactly
> my inclination at the moment too.  Sure would feel better if I could 
> articulate why, though. <g>

Well my gut feeling would be that it is as I have described, and that the @ 
sign indicates a font that is licenced in the way I have described. I've 
just looked at the font list in an MS Word 2007 document and it does /not/ 
include /any/ of the font names that are preceeded by the @ sign, although 
in every case I have checked it /does/ include that specific font name 
without the @ sign. In contrast, a Microsoft Publisher 2007 document /does/ 
include in its list of available fonts both the @ font name and the same 
name font without the @ for the specific fonts in question. I've tested MS 
Publisher with about a dozen or so of those "with and without the @ sign" 
fonts, in a very large font size, and in all cases the actual printed output 
is /exactly/ the same for the @ version as it is the for /Not @/ version.

Mike


0
Mike
9/8/2010 10:10:24 PM
"Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message 
news:i68vs6$fil$1@news.eternal-september.org...
:
: So the real question is, then...  If *you* were building a font
: selection list, what fork do you take when you hit one of these?  (My
: inclination at this point is to just ignore them, but it'd be good to
: justify that. <g>)

Check the first character of the string and filter it out if it's a @ 
character?  This is assuming of course that the first character being a @ 
symbol is standard for font forks.  Perhaps another way to to compare the 
currently loading font to the last one and checking for the same name, minus 
the @ sign...that would certainly indicate a forking scenario. 

0
Kevin
9/8/2010 10:13:12 PM
They only make a difference when applied to chinese character.

"Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> wrote in message 
news:i691k7$b57$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message 
> news:i6908h$h73$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>> I didn't find any that weren't dup'd on my system, so that's exactly
>> my inclination at the moment too.  Sure would feel better if I could 
>> articulate why, though. <g>
>
> Well my gut feeling would be that it is as I have described, and that the 
> @ sign indicates a font that is licenced in the way I have described. I've 
> just looked at the font list in an MS Word 2007 document and it does /not/ 
> include /any/ of the font names that are preceeded by the @ sign, although 
> in every case I have checked it /does/ include that specific font name 
> without the @ sign. In contrast, a Microsoft Publisher 2007 document 
> /does/ include in its list of available fonts both the @ font name and the 
> same name font without the @ for the specific fonts in question. I've 
> tested MS Publisher with about a dozen or so of those "with and without 
> the @ sign" fonts, in a very large font size, and in all cases the actual 
> printed output is /exactly/ the same for the @ version as it is the for 
> /Not @/ version.
>
> Mike
>
> 


0
Phil
9/8/2010 10:18:33 PM
This link says: "Vertical fonts are preceded by an @ symbol in the Font 
family list."

FontControl Element:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd371673%28VS.85%29.aspx

Searching for "Vertical fonts at symbol" might yield more results.


0
Nobody
9/8/2010 10:56:18 PM
Another link that says it's about vertical fonts:

A document that contains vertical and non-vertical fonts does not print 
correctly on a PostScript printer in Windows Vista:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/937018

Quote: "Note A vertical font is designated with an "at" character (@) as the 
first character of its name. Vertical fonts are typically used on Asian 
systems."


0
Nobody
9/8/2010 11:01:14 PM
After serious thinking Kevin Provance wrote :
> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message 
> news:i68vs6$fil$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> 
>> So the real question is, then...  If *you* were building a font
>> selection list, what fork do you take when you hit one of these?  (My
>> inclination at this point is to just ignore them, but it'd be good to
>> justify that. <g>)
>
> Check the first character of the string and filter it out if it's a @ 
> character?  This is assuming of course that the first character being a @ 
> symbol is standard for font forks.  Perhaps another way to to compare the 
> currently loading font to the last one and checking for the same name, minus 
> the @ sign...that would certainly indicate a forking scenario. 

I dunno.  Seems like it was always following one of the same name, 
but...?

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/8/2010 11:15:52 PM
Mike Williams formulated on Wednesday :
> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message 
> news:i6908h$h73$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>> I didn't find any that weren't dup'd on my system, so that's exactly
>> my inclination at the moment too.  Sure would feel better if I could 
>> articulate why, though. <g>
>
> Well my gut feeling would be that it is as I have described, and that the @ 
> sign indicates a font that is licenced in the way I have described.

I read that article you pointed to, and agree that's some *really* cool 
opportunity for web designers!  But I think it's also an unfortunate 
coincidence in this case.  Why?  Because I found mention of thie 
behavior from EnumFont* as far back as 2004.

http://www.ms-news.net/f2733/fonts-prefix-4070282.html

> I've just 
> looked at the font list in an MS Word 2007 document and it does /not/ include 
> /any/ of the font names that are preceeded by the @ sign, although in every 
> case I have checked it /does/ include that specific font name without the @ 
> sign. In contrast, a Microsoft Publisher 2007 document /does/ include in its 
> list of available fonts both the @ font name and the same name font without 
> the @ for the specific fonts in question.

Could it be simply because the programmers for Publisher were that much 
lamer than those for Word? <g>

Seriously, that is an interesting observation.  I concur with what you 
saw in Word.  Here too.

> I've tested MS Publisher with about 
> a dozen or so of those "with and without the @ sign" fonts, in a very large 
> font size, and in all cases the actual printed output is /exactly/ the same 
> for the @ version as it is the for /Not @/ version.

Might have to ask my Korean buddy to send me a document with a bunch of 
Chinese in it that I can suck into Publisher.

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/8/2010 11:15:56 PM
Nobody wrote on 9/8/2010 :
> Another link that says it's about vertical fonts:
>
> A document that contains vertical and non-vertical fonts does not print 
> correctly on a PostScript printer in Windows Vista:
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/937018
>
> Quote: "Note A vertical font is designated with an "at" character (@) as the 
> first character of its name. Vertical fonts are typically used on Asian 
> systems."

Good finds!  Yeah, I'm pretty sure that I could avoid these, in that 
case, and at least be able to explain why.  It's funny, though, that 
they chose to expose attributes in the font name, isn't it?  When there 
are so many other fields available.  But, you gave me what I needed to 
google out (what I believe to be) the Final Answer:

   "Fortunately, with Win32 you do not need to write code to rotate 
characters. To display text vertically on Windows 2000 and Windows XP, 
enumerate the available fonts as usual, and select a font whose font 
face name begins with the at sign (@). Then create a LOGFONT structure, 
setting both the escapement and the orientation to 270 degrees. Calls 
to TextOut are the same as for horizontal text."
   http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb688137.aspx

Right below that text, on that page, is an illustration of the 
(somewhat non-intuitive) results.

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/8/2010 11:16:00 PM
Reply:

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