file and folder permissions

Being a hobbyist I don't often get involved with file permissions when my 
code is run on other machines. I do know a few things about it, for example 
the behaviour of code running in a folder in the main Program Files folder 
and how it interacts with the current user's VirtualStore folder, but that's 
about all I know and I'd appreciate a little help on a specific matter.

I know about it normally being best to write user data files only to the 
current user's data folder (for which I would use CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA), but 
I have written a little VB6 program that is intended to be run direct from a 
memory stick (one that users can run from direct from a memory stick on 
their own machines) and so I need to create new files and modify existing 
data files so that the data "moves with the stick", so to speak. This is not 
in a corporate environment and so I cannot use the "Roaming" stuff. The way 
I am handling it at the moment is to write my data files either directly 
into App.Path or into a folder I create at runtime within App.Path, where 
App.Path would normally be my program's folder on the memory stick. I've 
tried this out on all the standard available accounts (Administrator, 
Standard User and Guest Account) on both Vista and windows 7 and it works 
fine, but I'm wondering if there are any "gotchas" that I haven't 
considered, and whether I am okay to do this?

The same method also works if the user copies my app folder from the memory 
stick onto his Desktop, which I sort of half expected it to seeing as the 
Desktop is a child of the current user's "User" folder, and although the 
user would probably not do that and would run it directly from the stick I 
am wondering if he would be okay doing it (copying the app folder to the 
desktop and running it there and then copying the app folder back to the 
stick or emailing it on somewhere or whatever)?

I do realise that, depending on the type of account he is running, he is 
going to have problems if he copies the app folder anywhere else on his 
machine and runs it from there, but that is not really a problem because the 
users will be told never to do that (the general idea, which is in fact 
exactly what they want, is that they run the program direct from a memory 
stick, and then take the program and any data it creates with them (on the 
stick) so that they can run the same program with the same modified data on 
any other machine. I think this will probably work on all current machines 
XP and upwards because the VB6 runtime is usually present by default on such 
machines, and I am dealing with any extra controls or libraries my program 
needs by using a manifest to use them directly from the app's own folder 
without installing or registering them.

Anyway, this all works fine as far as I have tested it so far, but I'm 
wondering if I am doing this correctly, or are there perhaps any problems I 
am likely to run into, things that I might not have considered?

Mike


0
Mike
8/28/2010 4:11:49 PM
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Just a thought, maybe your app would be more susceptible to getting infected 
by a virus since it's an executable residing in a folder that needs no 
permission elevation to be written to. How big of a deal that is I don't 
know.

-Woodie


"Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> wrote in message 
news:i5bcg0$jqb$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> Being a hobbyist I don't often get involved with file permissions when my 
> code is run on other machines. I do know a few things about it, for 
> example the behaviour of code running in a folder in the main Program 
> Files folder and how it interacts with the current user's VirtualStore 
> folder, but that's about all I know and I'd appreciate a little help on a 
> specific matter.
>
> I know about it normally being best to write user data files only to the 
> current user's data folder (for which I would use CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA), 
> but I have written a little VB6 program that is intended to be run direct 
> from a memory stick (one that users can run from direct from a memory 
> stick on their own machines) and so I need to create new files and modify 
> existing data files so that the data "moves with the stick", so to speak. 
> This is not in a corporate environment and so I cannot use the "Roaming" 
> stuff. The way I am handling it at the moment is to write my data files 
> either directly into App.Path or into a folder I create at runtime within 
> App.Path, where App.Path would normally be my program's folder on the 
> memory stick. I've tried this out on all the standard available accounts 
> (Administrator, Standard User and Guest Account) on both Vista and windows 
> 7 and it works fine, but I'm wondering if there are any "gotchas" that I 
> haven't considered, and whether I am okay to do this?
>
> The same method also works if the user copies my app folder from the 
> memory stick onto his Desktop, which I sort of half expected it to seeing 
> as the Desktop is a child of the current user's "User" folder, and 
> although the user would probably not do that and would run it directly 
> from the stick I am wondering if he would be okay doing it (copying the 
> app folder to the desktop and running it there and then copying the app 
> folder back to the stick or emailing it on somewhere or whatever)?
>
> I do realise that, depending on the type of account he is running, he is 
> going to have problems if he copies the app folder anywhere else on his 
> machine and runs it from there, but that is not really a problem because 
> the users will be told never to do that (the general idea, which is in 
> fact exactly what they want, is that they run the program direct from a 
> memory stick, and then take the program and any data it creates with them 
> (on the stick) so that they can run the same program with the same 
> modified data on any other machine. I think this will probably work on all 
> current machines XP and upwards because the VB6 runtime is usually present 
> by default on such machines, and I am dealing with any extra controls or 
> libraries my program needs by using a manifest to use them directly from 
> the app's own folder without installing or registering them.
>
> Anyway, this all works fine as far as I have tested it so far, but I'm 
> wondering if I am doing this correctly, or are there perhaps any problems 
> I am likely to run into, things that I might not have considered?
>
> Mike
>
> 
0
Woodie
8/29/2010 3:32:49 AM
Even a guest account have full access to Flash Drives since most of these 
drives/cards are FAT32 formatted. Only Vista and above can format flash 
drives to NTFS.


"Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> wrote in message 
news:i5bcg0$jqb$1@speranza.aioe.org...
| Being a hobbyist I don't often get involved with file permissions when my


0
Abhishek
8/29/2010 3:44:05 AM
"Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> wrote in message 
news:i5bcg0$jqb$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> Being a hobbyist I don't often get involved with file permissions when my 
> code is run on other machines. I do know a few things about it, for 
> example the behaviour of code running in a folder in the main Program 
> Files folder and how it interacts with the current user's VirtualStore 
> folder, but that's about all I know and I'd appreciate a little help on a 
> specific matter.
>
> I know about it normally being best to write user data files only to the 
> current user's data folder (for which I would use CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA), 
> but

"Never" use CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA for settings, use CSIDL_APPDATA instead(if 
you want to), along with CSIDL_FLAG_CREATE because the folder doesn't 
necessarily exits, especially after a clean install, or after creating a new 
user. This would work fine whether roaming is enabled or not. The "only" 
legitimate use for CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA is for large files, like Temp files, 
and a lot of email messages.

When a user logs in or out when roaming is enabled, his profile is 
downloaded/uploaded to/from a server, except for what's in 
CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA, so basically the user sees his documents and desktop 
regardless of which computer he uses. HKEY_CURRENT_USER is a actually stored 
in a file called "ntuser.dat", which is in the user's home folder, so this 
get uploaded/downloaded too. This file is generally located in this 
location:

XP: C:\Documents and Settings\<USERID>\ntuser.dat
Vista+: C:\Users\<USERID>\NTUSER.DAT

It's not necessarily mapped into HKEY_USERS.

> Anyway, this all works fine as far as I have tested it so far, but I'm 
> wondering if I am doing this correctly, or are there perhaps any problems 
> I am likely to run into, things that I might not have considered?

One thing that could bring a source of confusion to the user is when the 
user uses one of the protected locations, and the settings file get 
redirected elsewhere(In Vista+), so when the user copies back to the stick 
again, he finds that the old settings where used. To force Vista+ to return 
"Access is denied" to your app and stop redirecting, add asInvoker manifest 
to your EXE. For example, if at startup you use WritePrivateProfileString() 
to test if the INI file is writable, it would fail, and Err.LastDLLError 
would be 5(ERROR_ACCESS_DENIED), so you can warn the user to choose another 
location before using the program, or proceed anyway(in case the PC is 
locked down by some software). Here is a function that you can use to test 
if the file is writable(air code):

Public Function IsWritable(ByRef sFullFileName As String) As Boolean
    Dim f As Long

    On Error Resume Next

    f = FreeFile
    Open sFullFileName For Binary Access Read Write Shared As f
    If Err.Number <> 0 Then
        IsWritable = False
        GoTo ExitSub
    End If
    Close f


    IsWritable = True

ExitSub:
    Err.Clear
End Function


0
Nobody
8/29/2010 8:42:15 AM
"Abhishek" <user@server.com> wrote in message 
news:i5cl21$kt6$1@speranza.aioe.org...

> Even a guest account have full access to Flash Drives since
> most of these drives/cards are FAT32 formatted. Only
> Vista and above can format flash drives to NTFS.

Thanks. In this specific case very few USB sticks will be NTFS, and 
virtually all machines will be XP or later anyway, so it should be fine. I 
had already considered the NTFS thing and what I was after was information 
as to whether any account on any system might possibly be configured to 
disallow writing to removeable drives, but judging by the tone of your 
answer I assume that will not be a problem. Thanks again.

Mike



0
Mike
8/30/2010 6:25:27 AM
"Nobody" <nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message 
news:i5d6hg$ffu$1@speranza.aioe.org...

> "Never" use CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA for settings,
> use CSIDL_APPDATA instead(if you want to), along
> with CSIDL_FLAG_CREATE. This would work fine
> whether roaming is enabled or not. The "only" legitimate
> use for CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA is for large files,
> like Temp files, and a lot of email messages. When a
> user logs in or out when roaming is enabled, his profile
> is downloaded/uploaded to/from a server, except for
> what's in CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA, so basically
> the user sees his documents . . .

Thanks for the information. In this scenario the roaming advantage of 
CSIDL_APPDATA for settings and other data will actually not be of any use to 
me because it will not normally be run on networked systems and even if it 
does happen to be run on one or more networked machines they will not 
necessarily be on the same network. That's why I am saving all settings and 
all other permanent data the app produces to the App's path on the USB 
stick.

I'll be using the CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA purely for temporary files, of which 
there may be many. I need to use the main drive for my temporary files 
because some users will have fairly low capacity USB sticks which might not 
have a great deal of spare space. Most of these machines will be simple home 
setups, perhaps running various different types of account, and also a 
number of machines at a computer club that may or may not be networked, and 
I was wondering about whether there may be some machines that might not 
permit writing to either the USB memory stick or the CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA 
folder. From the general tone of your answer may I assume that will not be a 
problem?

This is actually for a friend on the other side of "the big pond" and so I 
am not physically able to look at his various setups, but I do know that 
some of the machines will be running Deep Freeze and I'll look into that 
aspect later. At the moment I'm assuming that will not present a problem 
because as far as I know systems such as Deep Freeze permit all the normal 
system drive writes that are normally available but just direct them to a 
different partition so that the main partition remains intact and unaltered 
and is clean at the next bootup. I'm fairly sure there will not be a problem 
there otherwise such systems would be effectively unusable.

> along with CSIDL_FLAG_CREATE because
> the folder doesn't necessarily exits

Thanks a lot for that one. I never considered the possibility that some 
folders such as CSIDL_APPDATA might not actually exist. I'm not sure whether 
that also applies to the CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA but I'll add the CREATE flag 
anyway just in case.

Thanks again.

Mike


0
Mike
8/30/2010 7:33:45 AM
"Nobody" <nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message 
news:i5d6hg$ffu$1@speranza.aioe.org...

> . . . use CSIDL_APPDATA instead along
> with CSIDL_FLAG_CREATE . . .

I've just tried that, both with CSIDL_APPDATA and with CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA 
and with various others and when I include the flag, as in CSIDL_APPDATA Or 
CSIDL_FLAG_CREATE (both Longs) the call to SHGetSpecialFolderLocation fails, 
so I do not get the folder location at all. It works fine without the flag, 
but it fails with it. This is on an Admin Account in Widows Vista, and it 
still fails even if I run the compiled exe "As Admin". Any idea why it may 
be failing? I would have thought that if you include the flag and if the 
folder already exists then you would still get the folder location anyway. 
Is that not the case?

I know that SHGetSpecialFolderLocation was superseded by something else from 
Win2K onwards (can't remember what it is and I can't get to MSDN right now) 
but I believe it has been included for backwards compatibility and it still 
works on XP and Vista and Win7. It certainly works okay in Vista without the 
CSIDL_FLAG_CREATE flag, but not with it. For some strange reason I cannot 
get any MSDN pages at the moment, no matter what page I look for, so if 
anybody knows what has replaced SHGetSpecialFolderLocation and especially if 
they have any sample code then it would be very much appreciated. I'm not 
sure yet what is preventing me from viewing the MSDN help pages, but if for 
example I enter the following, which the page I want:

http://www.msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb762203(VS.85).aspx

.. . . I do get an MSDN page but it is just generic and it tell me that it is 
"Unable To Service Request". This happens whatever MSDN help page I look 
for. It is beginning to look as though the MSDN help pages are deliberately 
being blocked. In fact I seem to recall reading somewhere that this is what 
happens if MS thinks that a specific system is not running a genuine and 
fully activated version of Windows, which definitely is not the case here 
because my system is perfectly kosher and in in any case I've had this 
system for years and this problem only started today (or perhaps in the last 
week or so). The one thing I have installed recently, just a few days ago, 
is Norton Internet Security 2010, which I suspect may be the culprit, but 
I've checked Norton's settings and firewall settings and my own Internet 
settings and I cannot see anything obvious. I wonder if Norton has made some 
changes to my system that is causing MS to believe that it is a different 
system and that it is no longer "kosher"? Has anybody else come across 
similar problems?

Mike





0
Mike
8/30/2010 9:27:19 AM
Writing to removable drives can be disabled using registry, its not 
dependent on user account type. I have seen a few company provided laptops 
with standard user account and writing to removable drives disabled. which 
the user easy enabled using a reg fix :)

If I were you and have to save settings for my portable app, then I would 
first try app.path, if not then appdata, if still not then temp folder with 
a warning to user.

You may also try to launch the application as admin. for that make a small 
loader/welcome app with open to open you app, check if user is admin then 
try to shell the main app. here you can ask the user where to save the 
settings, so he will automatically takes care of his flash drive. and any 
errors then will be by-design and responsibility of user :P


"Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> wrote in message 
news:i5fisj$f73$1@speranza.aioe.org...
| "Abhishek" <user@server.com> wrote in message
| news:i5cl21$kt6$1@speranza.aioe.org...
|
| as to whether any account on any system might possibly be configured to
| disallow writing to removeable drives, but judging by the tone of your
| answer I assume that will not be a problem. Thanks again.
|
| Mike
| 


0
Abhishek
8/30/2010 10:24:36 AM
"Abhishek" <user@server.com> wrote in message 
news:i5g0st$5fh$1@speranza.aioe.org...

> Writing to removable drives can be disabled using registry,
> its not  dependent on user account type. I have seen a few
> company provided laptops with standard user account and
> writing to removable drives disabled. which the user easy
> enabled using a reg fix :) If I were you and have to save
> settings for my portable app, then I would first try app.path,
> if not then appdata, if still not then temp folder with a
> warning to user.

Thanks. In this particular case it is essential that the settings and lots 
and lots of other user created data is saved to the USB stick from which 
they normally run the app, since that is how users normally transport the 
app and its data around so that they can use it in its current state on any 
other machine, wherever that machine may be. I think in some cases they copy 
the app folder from the USB stick onto their desktop and run it from there, 
and then finally transfer it back to the USB stick when they are happy with 
what they have done (this is for a friend on the other side of "the big 
pond" and so I don't have much control over what they actually do). If 
writing to a USB stick is disabled on a specific machine then I'm assuming 
that they will not be able to copy their folder from the desktop onto it 
either, so in that case they would be hosed. Actually I very much doubt that 
writing to USB stick will be disabled on any of the machines (none of them 
are the sort of machines you mentioned) but if there are any then I will 
advise them to re-enable it.

Thank you.

Mike


0
Mike
8/30/2010 10:50:33 AM
http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/network/isuseranadmin.htm

here is it. say thanks to Randy Birch (click an ad below)


"Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> wrote in message 
news:i5g2dk$8au$1@speranza.aioe.org...
| "Abhishek" <user@server.com> wrote in message
| news:i5g0st$5fh$1@speranza.aioe.org...
|
| > Writing to removable drives can be disabled using registry,
| > its not  dependent on user account type. I have seen a few
| > company provided laptops with standard user account and
| > writing to removable drives disabled. which the user easy
| > enabled using a reg fix :) If I were you and have to save
| > settings for my portable app, then I would first try app.path,
| > if not then appdata, if still not then temp folder with a
| > warning to user. 


0
Abhishek
8/30/2010 11:19:30 AM
   Just curious...Is there a reason to look for
the path of local app data\TEMP rather than just
calling GetTempPath?

  I've noticed that there are a lot of TEMP
folders on XP. I wrote a Desktop script to clean
out TEMP files and found 6 locations that I need
to check! But I don't get why any software would
actually target anything other than %TEMP%. Why
not just let Windows sort it out and give you the
best path?



0
Mayayana
8/30/2010 1:10:42 PM
i think %temp% is for backward compatiblity for older apps, as it returns 
short path name. it points to local appdata temp


"Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote in message 
news:i5gah7$bq6$1@news.eternal-september.org...
|   Just curious...Is there a reason to look for
| the path of local app data\TEMP rather than just
| calling GetTempPath?
|
|  I've noticed that there are a lot of TEMP
| folders on XP. I wrote a Desktop script to clean
| out TEMP files and found 6 locations that I need
| to check! But I don't get why any software would
| actually target anything other than %TEMP%. Why
| not just let Windows sort it out and give you the
| best path?
|
|
| 


0
Abhishek
8/30/2010 1:25:07 PM
"Abhishek" <user@server.com> wrote in message 
news:i5g43t$ase$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> here is it [to determine whether user is admin].
> say thanks to Randy Birch
> http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/network/isuseranadmin.htm
>

That returns False for all acounts on my Vista machine, including the normal 
main Admin Account. In Vista it seems to be detecting whether the code is 
currently running under elevated privileges, because if you create an exe of 
it and right click the exe and select "Run as Admin" then it does then True.

Mike




0
Mike
8/30/2010 3:26:36 PM
go to this page, here u will find a reg file to enable/disable write access 
to usb drives.
http://www.veign.com/downloads.php



"Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> wrote in message 
news:i5gij5$63v$1@speranza.aioe.org...
| "Abhishek" <user@server.com> wrote in message
| news:i5g43t$ase$1@speranza.aioe.org...
| > here is it [to determine whether user is admin].
| > say thanks to Randy Birch
| > http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/network/isuseranadmin.htm
| >
|
| That returns False for all acounts on my Vista machine, including the 
normal
| main Admin Account. In Vista it seems to be detecting whether the code is
| currently running under elevated privileges, because if you create an exe 
of
| it and right click the exe and select "Run as Admin" then it does then 
True.
|
| Mike
| 


0
Abhishek
8/30/2010 3:41:10 PM
Mayayana laid this down on his screen :
>>>> Are you sure about your claim?  I'm pretty sure that I was able to
>>>> format my flash drive using ntfs on xp...  And not from the commandline
>>>> either.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>   Even if that's true, what's the point? Couldn't
>>> anyone access it on any PC where they have
>>> admin rights? In any case, Abhishek is right:
>>> Very few people ever change defaults, and those
>>> who do know what they're doing.
>> 
>> I was responding  to the "Can be done using 3rd party tools" - which
>> isn't true.  XP is perfectly capable of formating removable media as
>> NTFS without 3rd party tools, from the standard UI interface...
>> 
>> Wether or not you think there is a point in actually doing so is not
>> the issue.
>> 
>
>    I understood what you were addressing. You think
> you remember formatting to NTFS with Windows
> tools. But does it matter?
>
>    I was actually curious whether there might be
> a point that I haven't thought of. Two of you
> say you've formatted sticks to NTFS, so maybe
> there was some reason to do that. But I can't think
> of what it might be. I assume it would be accessible
> to everyone as admin and to no one as less than admin.
>
>    If you want it to be NTFS then I assume that you're
> an NTFS lover who tries to run with limited rights
> whenever possible. So it's a hassle for you to access
> the stick but anyone else who wants to access it can
> do so by just running as admin. I don't get it. 

I believe the main reason I did so, was that I remember reading that 
you can actually fit more files on the disk with NTFS...   Other then 
that, because I could :)

-- 
Tom Shelton


0
Tom
9/2/2010 4:36:51 AM
"Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote in message 
news:i5n6el$l7s$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> I was actually curious whether there might
> be a point that I haven't thought of. Two of
> you say you've formatted sticks to NTFS,
> so maybe there was some reason to do that.
> But I can't think of what it might be.

Well 8GB and 16GB USB sticks are very cheap these days, and lots of people 
create or edit videos, and if they end up with a video (or any other very 
large file) that is more than 4GB in size then they will not be able to save 
it as a single file onto a FAT32 stick.

Mike



0
Mike
9/2/2010 8:40:38 AM
Mayayana wrote:
>
>    If you want it to be NTFS then I assume that you're
> an NTFS lover who tries to run with limited rights
> whenever possible. So it's a hassle for you to access
> the stick but anyone else who wants to access it can
> do so by just running as admin. I don't get it.

I regularly do Robocopy incremental backups of trees that can run to
hundreds of directories with 1000+ files, to USB sticks. The write
process is fairly slow, so incremental works well because there are
few changes. All the sources are on NTFS or network drives.

Twice a year, when daylight time switches, RoboCopy will completly
rewrite the entire tree, taking hours, if the stick is formatted
FAT32. That's because FAT32 doesn't use UTC filetimes.

Switching to NTFS eliminates that hassle. So there's at least one
solid reason to use NTFS on thumb drives.

-- 
   Jim Mack
   Twisted tees at http://www.cafepress.com/2050inc
   "We sew confusion"

0
Jim
9/2/2010 10:36:04 AM
on 9/1/2010, Abhishek supposed :
> Can be done using 3rd party tools tool, but most people dont know about it, 

No need for 3rd party tools.

> and consumers dont use cmd line tools.

Hard to imagine most consumers *wanting* to convert to NTFS, much less 
even knowing it's an option.  I agree with that.  But all it takes is a 
quick Google to find out how extremely easy it is, if one wanted to.  I 
think anyone who cares enough to search out the answer would find 
dropping to a command window pretty trivial.

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/2/2010 6:40:23 PM
Tom Shelton wrote :
> Abhishek explained :
>> Can be done using 3rd party tools tool, but most people dont know about it, 
>> and consumers dont use cmd line tools.
>
> Are you sure about your claim?  I'm pretty sure that I was able to format my 
> flash drive using ntfs on xp...  And not from the commandline either.
>
> Yeah, thought so:
> http://www.online-tech-tips.com/computer-tips/format-usb-ntfs/

That tip is buying more trouble than its saving!  Leaving flash drives 
"optimized for performance" can save a lot of grief.  That turns off 
write-caching, effectively allowing you to pull the drive anytime, 
without doing so "safely."  (I'm not recommending doing that, just 
saying that when you forget to do it the "safe" way you'll be that much 
less likely to corrupt things.)

It's really far, far easier to do it "the old-fashioned way" and simply 
run CONVERT against it.

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/2/2010 6:42:44 PM
Mayayana has brought this to us :
>    If you want it to be NTFS then I assume that you're
> an NTFS lover who tries to run with limited rights
> whenever possible. 

Nope.  NTFS supports files >2GB and FAT32 doesn't.  That simple.

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/2/2010 6:44:39 PM
"Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message 
news:i5orao$4rj$1@news.eternal-september.org...

>> Mayayana has brought this to us :
>> If you want it to be NTFS then I assume that you're
>> an NTFS lover who tries to run with limited rights
>> whenever possible.
>
> Nope.  NTFS supports files >2GB and FAT32 doesn't.  That simple.

Actually, like I said in my earlier reply to Mayayana, that's 4GB, but it 
certainly is a major limitation of FAT32 these days when lots of people 
create files larger than that on a daily basis. What a change from when I 
was a lad, when a 40KB file would have been regarded as almost impossibly 
large ;-)

Mike

 

0
Mike
9/2/2010 7:45:05 PM
Karl E. Peterson used his keyboard to write :
> Tom Shelton wrote :
>> Abhishek explained :
>>> Can be done using 3rd party tools tool, but most people dont know about 
>>> it, and consumers dont use cmd line tools.
>>
>> Are you sure about your claim?  I'm pretty sure that I was able to format 
>> my flash drive using ntfs on xp...  And not from the commandline either.
>>
>> Yeah, thought so:
>> http://www.online-tech-tips.com/computer-tips/format-usb-ntfs/
>
> That tip is buying more trouble than its saving!  Leaving flash drives 
> "optimized for performance" can save a lot of grief.  That turns off 
> write-caching, effectively allowing you to pull the drive anytime, without 
> doing so "safely."  (I'm not recommending doing that, just saying that when 
> you forget to do it the "safe" way you'll be that much less likely to corrupt 
> things.)
>
> It's really far, far easier to do it "the old-fashioned way" and simply run 
> CONVERT against it.

I agree.  I just was remebering being able to do it in the gui on xp :) 
 To be honest, i didn't even read the whole article - just enough to 
know I had been able to do it that way :)

-- 
Tom Shelton


0
Tom
9/2/2010 7:58:43 PM
Mike Williams used his keyboard to write :
> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message 
> news:i5orao$4rj$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>>> Mayayana has brought this to us :
>>> If you want it to be NTFS then I assume that you're
>>> an NTFS lover who tries to run with limited rights
>>> whenever possible.
>>
>> Nope.  NTFS supports files >2GB and FAT32 doesn't.  That simple.
>
> Actually, like I said in my earlier reply to Mayayana, that's 4GB, but it 
> certainly is a major limitation of FAT32 these days when lots of people 
> create files larger than that on a daily basis.

Huh.  I coulda swore it as 2gb.  Looks like you're right!

> What a change from when I was a lad, when a 40KB file would have been 
> regarded as almost impossibly large ;-)

Heh, if your "drive" was only 160kb, hellyeah! <g>

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/2/2010 8:29:48 PM
Tom Shelton explained :
> Karl E. Peterson used his keyboard to write :
>> Tom Shelton wrote :
>>> Abhishek explained :
>>>> Can be done using 3rd party tools tool, but most people dont know about 
>>>> it, and consumers dont use cmd line tools.
>>>
>>> Are you sure about your claim?  I'm pretty sure that I was able to format 
>>> my flash drive using ntfs on xp...  And not from the commandline either.
>>>
>>> Yeah, thought so:
>>> http://www.online-tech-tips.com/computer-tips/format-usb-ntfs/
>>
>> That tip is buying more trouble than its saving!  Leaving flash drives 
>> "optimized for performance" can save a lot of grief.  That turns off 
>> write-caching, effectively allowing you to pull the drive anytime, without 
>> doing so "safely."  (I'm not recommending doing that, just saying that when 
>> you forget to do it the "safe" way you'll be that much less likely to 
>> corrupt things.)
>>
>> It's really far, far easier to do it "the old-fashioned way" and simply run 
>> CONVERT against it.
>
> I agree.  I just was remebering being able to do it in the gui on xp :)  To 
> be honest, i didn't even read the whole article - just enough to know I had 
> been able to do it that way :)

Yep, it's possible, but probably not smart.  That said, I don't have 
any idea if that sort of setting is persisted with the drive or the 
drive letter or _________?

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/2/2010 8:31:02 PM
On 02/09/2010 19:44, Karl E. Peterson wrote:
> Mayayana has brought this to us :
>> If you want it to be NTFS then I assume that you're
>> an NTFS lover who tries to run with limited rights
>> whenever possible.
>
> Nope. NTFS supports files >2GB and FAT32 doesn't. That simple.

....among many other things.
Proper long file name support (rather than a hack), No feasible limit on 
number of files in a folder (normally only effects bad designed apps, 
but stuff we need to live with none the less.) etc..

-- 
Dee Earley (dee.earley@icode.co.uk)
i-Catcher Development Team

iCode Systems

(Replies direct to my email address will be ignored.
Please reply to the group.)
0
Dee
9/3/2010 3:37:27 PM
On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 13:29:48 -0700, Karl E. Peterson <karl@exmvps.org>
wrote:
  
>Heh, if your "drive" was only 160kb, hellyeah! <g>

Drive?   You mean cards, right?   Paper cards?  Fortunately I missed
the era of paper tape.

Tony
-- 
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files 
  updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/
0
Tony
9/6/2010 8:39:13 PM
on 9/6/2010, Tony Toews supposed :
> On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 13:29:48 -0700, Karl E. Peterson <karl@exmvps.org>
> wrote:
>   
>> Heh, if your "drive" was only 160kb, hellyeah! <g>
>
> Drive?   You mean cards, right?   Paper cards?  Fortunately I missed
> the era of paper tape.

Oh man, shoeboxes full of punchcards?  Yeah, that's the era I changed 
my major to Geology.  I might actually still have some of the paper 
tape stuff I did, before that, though. <g>

-- 
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


0
Karl
9/7/2010 9:53:34 PM
Reply:

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