best way to publish html newsletter for e-mail

I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an HTML file that 
will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs (Outlook, Outlook 
Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).

Please advise if you have any suggestions.
0
Shawn458 (1)
4/16/2006 6:16:01 PM
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Shawn458 <Shawn458@discussions.microsoft.com> was very recently heard
to utter:
> Please advise if you have any suggestions.

Don't use Publisher.

:-)

-- 
Ed Bennett - MVP Microsoft Publisher 


0
the_nerd (6342)
4/16/2006 7:38:05 PM
I think it is the consensus of most is to use a pdf file attached to a cover 
letter e-mail.

Benefits include limitless number of pages
Full screen display by all readers
Less data to transmit
Easier storage of the newsletter by the receiver
Less time to download the mail

So, if you need a method to create a pdf file out of your Publisher file, 
many folks here like Primopdf.  It's free.
I prefer PDF-XChange; it is not free.

www.primopdf.com

http://www.docu-track.com/downloads/users/


-- 
Don
Vancouver USA


"Shawn458" <Shawn458@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:EDA296C6-D022-4F03-91D9-C20BDB9C4F43@microsoft.com...
>I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an HTML file 
>that
> will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs (Outlook, Outlook
> Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).
>
> Please advise if you have any suggestions. 


0
Don
4/16/2006 7:58:18 PM
Here are some reference articles:
Create and send e-mail publications using Publisher:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/assistance/HA010743381033.aspx#modeofdelie
very
Convert a print newsletter for use on the Web:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/assistance/HA011030981033.aspx

DavidF
"Shawn458" <Shawn458@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:EDA296C6-D022-4F03-91D9-C20BDB9C4F43@microsoft.com...
> I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an HTML file
that
> will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs (Outlook, Outlook
> Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).
>
> Please advise if you have any suggestions.


0
Nope8657 (939)
4/16/2006 8:13:47 PM
If  you're gonna try the html route..don't use Publisher and don't use 
Outlook...use Outlook Express.


"Shawn458" <Shawn458@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:EDA296C6-D022-4F03-91D9-C20BDB9C4F43@microsoft.com...
|I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an HTML file 
that
| will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs (Outlook, Outlook
| Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).
|
| Please advise if you have any suggestions. 


0
webmaster911 (1600)
4/16/2006 8:25:26 PM
Rob,

I have a question regarding your statement "...don't use Outlook...use 
Outlook Express. I have an HTML newsletter developed in FrontPage. It is 
essentially a 600 pixel wide table. It is sent to 1,482 recipients via MS 
Office Outlook (originally Outlook 97, then 2000, and now 2003). Will you 
explain why one shouldn't use Outlook? What am I missing?
"Rob Giordano (Crash)" <webmaster@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in message 
news:e8JrmPZYGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> If  you're gonna try the html route..don't use Publisher and don't use
> Outlook...use Outlook Express.
>
>
> "Shawn458" <Shawn458@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:EDA296C6-D022-4F03-91D9-C20BDB9C4F43@microsoft.com...
> |I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an HTML file
> that
> | will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs (Outlook, Outlook
> | Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).
> |
> | Please advise if you have any suggestions.
>
> 


0
Chuck
4/16/2006 9:07:31 PM
I would also like to know why Ed, Don, Rob and JoAnn are so dead set against
using Publisher for this purpose. It is really not that hard, and if you
take the time to set it up correctly, it works well. You even have the
option of sending as a single image via this tool, if you don't want to use
HTML. What am I missing?

DavidF

"Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
news:OreyHnZYGHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Rob,
>
> I have a question regarding your statement "...don't use Outlook...use
> Outlook Express. I have an HTML newsletter developed in FrontPage. It is
> essentially a 600 pixel wide table. It is sent to 1,482 recipients via MS
> Office Outlook (originally Outlook 97, then 2000, and now 2003). Will you
> explain why one shouldn't use Outlook? What am I missing?
> "Rob Giordano (Crash)" <webmaster@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in message
> news:e8JrmPZYGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> > If  you're gonna try the html route..don't use Publisher and don't use
> > Outlook...use Outlook Express.
> >
> >
> > "Shawn458" <Shawn458@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:EDA296C6-D022-4F03-91D9-C20BDB9C4F43@microsoft.com...
> > |I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an HTML file
> > that
> > | will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs (Outlook,
Outlook
> > | Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).
> > |
> > | Please advise if you have any suggestions.
> >
> >
>
>


0
Nope8657 (939)
4/16/2006 9:38:59 PM
Shawn458 wrote:

> I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an HTML file that 
> will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs (Outlook, Outlook 
> Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).
> 
> Please advise if you have any suggestions.

Don't send it as HTML unless it's VERY simple.  Your viewers will have 
different browsers, different installed fonts, and different email 
programs.

If your email is the HTML, then many email programs won't even try to 
interpret it, and many users have it turned off because it's a major 
security exposure.  If it's an attachment, then you're dependent on 
other factors.  PDF's (with embedded font subsets) are currently the 
most general way of distributing formatted information.
0
Dosser (7)
4/16/2006 10:03:35 PM
DOsser <Dosser@nodoze.tonight> was very recently heard to utter:
> Don't send it as HTML unless it's VERY simple.  Your viewers will have
> different browsers, different installed fonts, and different email
> programs.
>
> If your email is the HTML, then many email programs won't even try to
> interpret it, and many users have it turned off because it's a major
> security exposure.

Not entirely true, to my knowledge.

Using the *correct* tools, one can format emails so they display correctly 
in HTML in the majority of clients (even with relatively complex layouts), 
and engineer them such that clients with HTML disabled see a text-only 
version or a link to view the HTML version in a browser.

The user's browser has little effect on HTML email rendering, web safe fonts 
are normally pretty safe, and HTML rendering between email programs should 
be consistent enough to allow for some non-trivial options.

Publisher does not do any of this (well, I suppose you can use web safe 
fonts, but it certainly doesn't create cross-rendering-engine compatible 
code, so different email programs will render it in different ways, if at 
all, and the filesize will be far larger than using a specialised tool for 
the job), and sending as a single image results in a very large email which 
is inaccessible for users using screenreaders and such, and users on 
low-bandwidth connections (dial-up, mobile phone, GPRS, etc.).

-- 
Ed Bennett - MVP Microsoft Publisher 


0
the_nerd (6342)
4/16/2006 10:15:15 PM
David,

I was in the cabinet making business for 18 years. My motto then, and now is 
"Use the right tool for the job."  My apprentaces were always grabbing the 
closest tool and messing up their project. If you had used the right tool 
(FrontPage instead of a desktop publishing tool; Publisher), you probably 
wouldn't have posted your original question.
"DavidF" <Nope@nospam.com> wrote in message 
news:%23KHDt5ZYGHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>I would also like to know why Ed, Don, Rob and JoAnn are so dead set 
>against
> using Publisher for this purpose. It is really not that hard, and if you
> take the time to set it up correctly, it works well. You even have the
> option of sending as a single image via this tool, if you don't want to 
> use
> HTML. What am I missing?
>
> DavidF
>
> "Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
> news:OreyHnZYGHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Rob,
>>
>> I have a question regarding your statement "...don't use Outlook...use
>> Outlook Express. I have an HTML newsletter developed in FrontPage. It is
>> essentially a 600 pixel wide table. It is sent to 1,482 recipients via MS
>> Office Outlook (originally Outlook 97, then 2000, and now 2003). Will you
>> explain why one shouldn't use Outlook? What am I missing?
>> "Rob Giordano (Crash)" <webmaster@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:e8JrmPZYGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> > If  you're gonna try the html route..don't use Publisher and don't use
>> > Outlook...use Outlook Express.
>> >
>> >
>> > "Shawn458" <Shawn458@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> > news:EDA296C6-D022-4F03-91D9-C20BDB9C4F43@microsoft.com...
>> > |I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an HTML 
>> > file
>> > that
>> > | will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs (Outlook,
> Outlook
>> > | Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).
>> > |
>> > | Please advise if you have any suggestions.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
> 


0
Chuck
4/17/2006 12:47:06 AM
David,

It's not that I'm dead set against an html newsletter; it's just I haven't 
found a better way to met the chore of sending out a newsletter than in pdf 
form via USPS, e-mail and then store it on our website for visitors.  It 
would be a two page letter except 1/3 of one side for the Banner/Return 
Address area and the recipient's address.  In the e-mail and website version 
the recipient's address area would be used for the "e-mailer's bonus" area 
which usually gave a computer use hint.  The pdf form had the bonus of being 
a small data package which had no problem delivering to all and it quickly 
uploaded.  Here's a sample: http://www.vanusa.org/il_messaggio/2004_04.pdf

Seeing how I no longer do the newsletter, the method of delivery is now a 
moot point.  But if you have a winning argument let me in on it.  Us old 
guys like to learn better ways.

ciao,

-- 
Don
"May your shadow be found in happy places." (Native North American)


"DavidF" <Nope@nospam.com> wrote in message 
news:%23KHDt5ZYGHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>I would also like to know why Ed, Don, Rob and JoAnn are so dead set 
>against
> using Publisher for this purpose. It is really not that hard, and if you
> take the time to set it up correctly, it works well. You even have the
> option of sending as a single image via this tool, if you don't want to 
> use
> HTML. What am I missing?
>
> DavidF
>
> "Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
> news:OreyHnZYGHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Rob,
>>
>> I have a question regarding your statement "...don't use Outlook...use
>> Outlook Express. I have an HTML newsletter developed in FrontPage. It is
>> essentially a 600 pixel wide table. It is sent to 1,482 recipients via MS
>> Office Outlook (originally Outlook 97, then 2000, and now 2003). Will you
>> explain why one shouldn't use Outlook? What am I missing?
>> "Rob Giordano (Crash)" <webmaster@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:e8JrmPZYGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> > If  you're gonna try the html route..don't use Publisher and don't use
>> > Outlook...use Outlook Express.
>> >
>> >
>> > "Shawn458" <Shawn458@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> > news:EDA296C6-D022-4F03-91D9-C20BDB9C4F43@microsoft.com...
>> > |I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an HTML 
>> > file
>> > that
>> > | will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs (Outlook,
> Outlook
>> > | Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).
>> > |
>> > | Please advise if you have any suggestions.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
> 


0
Don
4/17/2006 1:36:21 AM
Don Schmidt wrote:

> David,
> 
> It's not that I'm dead set against an html newsletter; it's just I haven't 
> found a better way to met the chore of sending out a newsletter than in pdf 
> form via USPS, e-mail and then store it on our website for visitors.  It 
> would be a two page letter except 1/3 of one side for the Banner/Return 
> Address area and the recipient's address.  In the e-mail and website version 
> the recipient's address area would be used for the "e-mailer's bonus" area 
> which usually gave a computer use hint.  The pdf form had the bonus of being 
> a small data package which had no problem delivering to all and it quickly 
> uploaded.  Here's a sample: http://www.vanusa.org/il_messaggio/2004_04.pdf
> 
> Seeing how I no longer do the newsletter, the method of delivery is now a 
> moot point.  But if you have a winning argument let me in on it.  Us old 
> guys like to learn better ways.
> 
> ciao,
> 
I agree with pdf as the best way to send a newsletter via email, but I 
haven't tried sending via html cause I have my email set to not accept 
html... just me I guess :)

My problem is with the usage of the word "moot", hahahah

I've always only found one instance where moot means "having no bearing 
on or connection with the subject at issue; "an irrelevant comment"; 
"irrelevant allegations""

See http://www.tfd.com/moot and scroll way down to the adjectives.... 
seems to me that "moot" as it should be used actually would mean the 
opposite of how it's generally used....  it mostly means the subject IS 
debatable.

Spank me with a grammar stick,

Steve
0
dtp2webSPAM (302)
4/17/2006 1:53:39 AM
I do both types of newsletters.

Computer Club's PDF which ranges in size from 245 to 550 KB: 
http://www.myscacc.org/newsletters.htm
My own community newsletter which ranges in size from 6 to 23 KB:
http://www.anthemwebs.com/communitynews.htm#Previous_issues

On a dialup system, which would you rather receive?

"Steve in NC" <dtp2webSPAM@netscape.net> wrote in message 
news:DyC0g.5086$Es3.2139@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Don Schmidt wrote:
>
>> David,
>>
>> It's not that I'm dead set against an html newsletter; it's just I 
>> haven't found a better way to met the chore of sending out a newsletter 
>> than in pdf form via USPS, e-mail and then store it on our website for 
>> visitors.  It would be a two page letter except 1/3 of one side for the 
>> Banner/Return Address area and the recipient's address.  In the e-mail 
>> and website version the recipient's address area would be used for the 
>> "e-mailer's bonus" area which usually gave a computer use hint.  The pdf 
>> form had the bonus of being a small data package which had no problem 
>> delivering to all and it quickly uploaded.  Here's a sample: 
>> http://www.vanusa.org/il_messaggio/2004_04.pdf
>>
>> Seeing how I no longer do the newsletter, the method of delivery is now a 
>> moot point.  But if you have a winning argument let me in on it.  Us old 
>> guys like to learn better ways.
>>
>> ciao,
>>
> I agree with pdf as the best way to send a newsletter via email, but I 
> haven't tried sending via html cause I have my email set to not accept 
> html... just me I guess :)
>
> My problem is with the usage of the word "moot", hahahah
>
> I've always only found one instance where moot means "having no bearing on 
> or connection with the subject at issue; "an irrelevant comment"; 
> "irrelevant allegations""
>
> See http://www.tfd.com/moot and scroll way down to the adjectives.... 
> seems to me that "moot" as it should be used actually would mean the 
> opposite of how it's generally used....  it mostly means the subject IS 
> debatable.
>
> Spank me with a grammar stick,
>
> Steve 


0
Chuck
4/17/2006 2:05:09 AM
OE is easier, it embeds the images, with OL you have to have absolute links 
to images hosted somewhere ont he net.

You can do it either way ( I guess I should have not used "shouldn't") I 
tend to like the path of least resistance :-)


"Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message 
news:OreyHnZYGHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
| Rob,
|
| I have a question regarding your statement "...don't use Outlook...use
| Outlook Express. I have an HTML newsletter developed in FrontPage. It is
| essentially a 600 pixel wide table. It is sent to 1,482 recipients via MS
| Office Outlook (originally Outlook 97, then 2000, and now 2003). Will you
| explain why one shouldn't use Outlook? What am I missing?
| "Rob Giordano (Crash)" <webmaster@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in message
| news:e8JrmPZYGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| > If  you're gonna try the html route..don't use Publisher and don't use
| > Outlook...use Outlook Express.
| >
| >
| > "Shawn458" <Shawn458@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > news:EDA296C6-D022-4F03-91D9-C20BDB9C4F43@microsoft.com...
| > |I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an HTML file
| > that
| > | will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs (Outlook, 
Outlook
| > | Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).
| > |
| > | Please advise if you have any suggestions.
| >
| >
|
| 


0
webmaster911 (1600)
4/17/2006 3:46:36 AM
Rob,
Thanks for explaining the difference. I've never used OE for e-mail, so 
didn't understand.
"Rob Giordano (Crash)" <webmaster@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in message 
news:eAoHIGdYGHA.4432@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> OE is easier, it embeds the images, with OL you have to have absolute 
> links
> to images hosted somewhere ont he net.
>
> You can do it either way ( I guess I should have not used "shouldn't") I
> tend to like the path of least resistance :-)
>
>
> "Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
> news:OreyHnZYGHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> | Rob,
> |
> | I have a question regarding your statement "...don't use Outlook...use
> | Outlook Express. I have an HTML newsletter developed in FrontPage. It is
> | essentially a 600 pixel wide table. It is sent to 1,482 recipients via 
> MS
> | Office Outlook (originally Outlook 97, then 2000, and now 2003). Will 
> you
> | explain why one shouldn't use Outlook? What am I missing?
> | "Rob Giordano (Crash)" <webmaster@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in 
> message
> | news:e8JrmPZYGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> | > If  you're gonna try the html route..don't use Publisher and don't use
> | > Outlook...use Outlook Express.
> | >
> | >
> | > "Shawn458" <Shawn458@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | > news:EDA296C6-D022-4F03-91D9-C20BDB9C4F43@microsoft.com...
> | > |I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an HTML 
> file
> | > that
> | > | will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs (Outlook,
> Outlook
> | > | Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).
> | > |
> | > | Please advise if you have any suggestions.
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
>
> 


0
Chuck
4/17/2006 1:45:10 PM
DavidF <Nope@nospam.com> was very recently heard to utter:
> Publisher has many limitations, both in generating HTML code and as a
> DTP, but if it is the only tool one has, then it can be the "right"
> tool. If one wants to send a basic, one page HTML formatted email or
> produce a simple static website,

Sure it can, if you don't mind having emails and web pages that can't be 
viewed in all (or even the majority of) email programs/browsers and that 
take up massive amounts of storage space and/or bandwidth.

> then should one invest $200 to buy,
> and the time to learn FrontPage...or $400 to buy DreamWeaver? Or
> should one learn to use the tool they own in the "right" way?

That depends.  If it takes more than $200 of time (or lost income) to work 
out how to get your screwdriver/Publisher to put a nail in/create a website, 
you may as well have bought the $200 hammer/FrontPage.

If time isn't money for you, then if it would have taken you longer to get 
Publisher to create a website you're happy with, than to learn to code 
good-looking cross-browser-compatible websites from scratch using 
http://www.lissaexplains.com and http://www.alistapart.com/topics/, you may 
as well have done the latter and been a lot happier (and probably more 
satisfied with the results, and with more happy customers/site 
visitors/whatever).

-- 
Ed Bennett - MVP Microsoft Publisher 


0
the_nerd (6342)
4/17/2006 3:01:43 PM
Chuck,

I certainly wouldn't argue that Publisher is a better tool than FrontPage
for this job, but there are many that would argue that neither Publisher or
FrontPage are the "right tool" for their intended jobs...that Dreamweaver,
Adobe apps, Serif, HTML handcoding, etc, etc. are the "right" tools. Heck, I
wouldn't even want to argue that one should send HTML formatted email these
days (I wouldn't), or that sending PDF files is not the best way, but just
because there are "better" tools than Publisher, and "better" ways of doing
things, doesn't mean that Publisher can't be the "right" tool...or a
workable tool.

Every tool has its limitations, but results will vary with the skill, and
perhaps knowledge, of the person using that tool. As a cabinet maker, you
have certainly seen examples of incredible craftsmanship and wood working
done before any power tools were available. Many would argue that some of
the "old world craftsmanship" cannot be duplicated today even with the
"right" tools of today.

Perhaps it is my background that leaves me objecting to the label "right"
tool. My father was raised on a poor farm and was both a vocational
agriculture and industrial arts teacher. I always had more tools to choose
from than most, but my father taught me that having the "right" tool wasn't
as important as using the tools I had available in the "right" way. He
illustrated this graphically one day. I was at a construction job site where
we were putting down a hardwood floor of thick, seasoned oak flooring, when
my father stopped by. Most of the crew were constantly bending nails and
complaining about how difficult it was to nail the flooring. My father bet
them that he could drive a 16 penny nail through the oak flooring with one
hit, if he was allowed to just get the nail started. Of course, everyone
took his bet, at which point my father set aside the "right" tool, the
hammer, picked up a 8 ft. 2X4, raised it over his head, and in one big swing
drove that nail through the oak, down to the head...and won the bet without
using the "right" tool.

Publisher has many limitations, both in generating HTML code and as a DTP,
but if it is the only tool one has, then it can be the "right" tool. If one
wants to send a basic, one page HTML formatted email or produce a simple
static website, then should one invest $200 to buy, and the time to learn
FrontPage...or $400 to buy DreamWeaver? Or should one learn to use the tool
they own in the "right" way?

My objection is to automatically dismissing Publisher as the "wrong tool"
because there are better tools for the job. This is a Publisher newsgroup,
and even though there is nothing wrong with telling people about better
methods and tools, I think we also owe people an explanation of how best to
use, the "right" way to use Publisher to accomplish the task within the
limitations of the tool.

DavidF


"Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
news:#n0q0hbYGHA.1348@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> David,
>
> I was in the cabinet making business for 18 years. My motto then, and now
is
> "Use the right tool for the job."  My apprentaces were always grabbing the
> closest tool and messing up their project. If you had used the right tool
> (FrontPage instead of a desktop publishing tool; Publisher), you probably
> wouldn't have posted your original question.
> "DavidF" <Nope@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:%23KHDt5ZYGHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >I would also like to know why Ed, Don, Rob and JoAnn are so dead set
> >against
> > using Publisher for this purpose. It is really not that hard, and if you
> > take the time to set it up correctly, it works well. You even have the
> > option of sending as a single image via this tool, if you don't want to
> > use
> > HTML. What am I missing?
> >
> > DavidF
> >
> > "Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
> > news:OreyHnZYGHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> >> Rob,
> >>
> >> I have a question regarding your statement "...don't use Outlook...use
> >> Outlook Express. I have an HTML newsletter developed in FrontPage. It
is
> >> essentially a 600 pixel wide table. It is sent to 1,482 recipients via
MS
> >> Office Outlook (originally Outlook 97, then 2000, and now 2003). Will
you
> >> explain why one shouldn't use Outlook? What am I missing?
> >> "Rob Giordano (Crash)" <webmaster@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in
message
> >> news:e8JrmPZYGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >> > If  you're gonna try the html route..don't use Publisher and don't
use
> >> > Outlook...use Outlook Express.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Shawn458" <Shawn458@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:EDA296C6-D022-4F03-91D9-C20BDB9C4F43@microsoft.com...
> >> > |I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an HTML
> >> > file
> >> > that
> >> > | will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs (Outlook,
> > Outlook
> >> > | Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).
> >> > |
> >> > | Please advise if you have any suggestions.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>


0
Nope8657 (939)
4/17/2006 3:48:58 PM
Ed,

I would quibble with your assertion that Pub 2003 HTML formatted emails and
web pages can't be viewed in the majority of email programs/browsers.
Granted Pub 2003 does not have good cross browser support, but the majority
of people use IE. Publisher 2003 HTML also works in Netscape and even
FireFox sometimes. I would also tend to believe that most people use either
OE, Outlook, AOL, Hotmail, Gmail, or Yahoo mail, and once again Pub 2003
HTML messages are viewable. I also think most people do not change the
default to plain text only, which would also preclude the use of an image
instead of HTML.

As per "massive amounts of space or bandwidth", I think again you overstate
your position. Yes, Pub 2003 is guilty of "code bloat", especially compared
to Pub 2000, hand coding, or probably FrontPage. However, once again I
stated "basic, one page email, or simple static websites", and in this case,
I don't believe the code bloat is prohibitive. I tried one of the single
page newsletter templates, and the email message ended up being 56 kb in
HTML format, and 188 kb as an image.

As per your suggestion that one could learn HTML coding faster and produce a
site that was better and easier than Pub 2003, then maybe your young,
brilliant mind could, but us average human beings couldn't.

But speaking of wasting time, I realize that I will never convince you,
JoAnn and others that there are times and situations where Publisher's HTML
capability could ever be the right tool. And for that matter, you should
know from my posts (771989) in another newsgroup, how I feel about the
coding engine in Publisher 2003. MS messed it up, starting in version 2002.
However, that doesn't change my assertion that it can be the "right" tool
for some people, in some situations, and that it shouldn't be dismissed out
of hand. Especially on a Publisher newsgroup, by Publisher MVPs.

But I am done now...DavidF

"Ed Bennett" <the_nerd@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:uUTra$iYGHA.3532@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> DavidF <Nope@nospam.com> was very recently heard to utter:
> > Publisher has many limitations, both in generating HTML code and as a
> > DTP, but if it is the only tool one has, then it can be the "right"
> > tool. If one wants to send a basic, one page HTML formatted email or
> > produce a simple static website,
>
> Sure it can, if you don't mind having emails and web pages that can't be
> viewed in all (or even the majority of) email programs/browsers and that
> take up massive amounts of storage space and/or bandwidth.

>
> > then should one invest $200 to buy,
> > and the time to learn FrontPage...or $400 to buy DreamWeaver? Or
> > should one learn to use the tool they own in the "right" way?
>
> That depends.  If it takes more than $200 of time (or lost income) to work
> out how to get your screwdriver/Publisher to put a nail in/create a
website,
> you may as well have bought the $200 hammer/FrontPage.
>
> If time isn't money for you, then if it would have taken you longer to get
> Publisher to create a website you're happy with, than to learn to code
> good-looking cross-browser-compatible websites from scratch using
> http://www.lissaexplains.com and http://www.alistapart.com/topics/, you
may
> as well have done the latter and been a lot happier (and probably more
> satisfied with the results, and with more happy customers/site
> visitors/whatever).
>
> --
> Ed Bennett - MVP Microsoft Publisher
>
>


0
Nope8657 (939)
4/17/2006 6:27:30 PM
DavidF wrote:
> Chuck,
>I was at a construction job site where
> we were putting down a hardwood floor of thick, seasoned oak flooring, when
> my father stopped by. Most of the crew were constantly bending nails and
> complaining about how difficult it was to nail the flooring. My father bet
> them that he could drive a 16 penny nail through the oak flooring with one
> hit, if he was allowed to just get the nail started. Of course, everyone
> took his bet, at which point my father set aside the "right" tool, the
> hammer, picked up a 8 ft. 2X4, raised it over his head, and in one big swing
> drove that nail through the oak, down to the head...and won the bet without
> using the "right" tool.

Seems like he should have used the right tool. I would have taken a 
drill bit and drilled a hole through the oak and into the joist, then 
driven the nail through it. Furthermore, I have to, excuse me, call your 
anecdote "BS." The oak board would have offered more resistance than the 
2x4 your dad used, thus keeping it from driving the nail completely in. 
I also wonder what kind of woodworking one would be doing that would 
require driving a 16 penny nail into a board, especially a floor. Unless 
he was driving it in the middle of the board instead of the end, or the 
wood was green, it would split out the end.

If you are going to use an analogy, please try to make sure it is realistic!

Mike
> 
> Publisher has many limitations, both in generating HTML code and as a DTP,
> but if it is the only tool one has, then it can be the "right" tool. If one
> wants to send a basic, one page HTML formatted email or produce a simple
> static website, then should one invest $200 to buy, and the time to learn
> FrontPage...or $400 to buy DreamWeaver? Or should one learn to use the tool
> they own in the "right" way?
> 
> My objection is to automatically dismissing Publisher as the "wrong tool"
> because there are better tools for the job. This is a Publisher newsgroup,
> and even though there is nothing wrong with telling people about better
> methods and tools, I think we also owe people an explanation of how best to
> use, the "right" way to use Publisher to accomplish the task within the
> limitations of the tool.
> 
> DavidF
> 
> 
> "Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
> news:#n0q0hbYGHA.1348@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> 
>>David,
>>
>>I was in the cabinet making business for 18 years. My motto then, and now
> 
> is
> 
>>"Use the right tool for the job."  My apprentaces were always grabbing the
>>closest tool and messing up their project. If you had used the right tool
>>(FrontPage instead of a desktop publishing tool; Publisher), you probably
>>wouldn't have posted your original question.
>>"DavidF" <Nope@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>news:%23KHDt5ZYGHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>I would also like to know why Ed, Don, Rob and JoAnn are so dead set
>>>against
>>>using Publisher for this purpose. It is really not that hard, and if you
>>>take the time to set it up correctly, it works well. You even have the
>>>option of sending as a single image via this tool, if you don't want to
>>>use
>>>HTML. What am I missing?
>>>
>>>DavidF
>>>
>>>"Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
>>>news:OreyHnZYGHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>>Rob,
>>>>
>>>>I have a question regarding your statement "...don't use Outlook...use
>>>>Outlook Express. I have an HTML newsletter developed in FrontPage. It
> 
> is
> 
>>>>essentially a 600 pixel wide table. It is sent to 1,482 recipients via
> 
> MS
> 
>>>>Office Outlook (originally Outlook 97, then 2000, and now 2003). Will
> 
> you
> 
>>>>explain why one shouldn't use Outlook? What am I missing?
>>>>"Rob Giordano (Crash)" <webmaster@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in
> 
> message
> 
>>>>news:e8JrmPZYGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>>If  you're gonna try the html route..don't use Publisher and don't
> 
> use
> 
>>>>>Outlook...use Outlook Express.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Shawn458" <Shawn458@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:EDA296C6-D022-4F03-91D9-C20BDB9C4F43@microsoft.com...
>>>>>|I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an HTML
>>>>>file
>>>>>that
>>>>>| will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs (Outlook,
>>>
>>>Outlook
>>>
>>>>>| Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).
>>>>>|
>>>>>| Please advise if you have any suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 
0
wordwiz (948)
4/18/2006 12:21:16 AM
I thought I was finished.... I guess you would have lost the bet that day
too. Why in the world would I make this up?  First of all we were not using
16 penny nails to nail the floor...we were using finishing nails in the side
and note that this was about 30 years ago before air tools were even
available. We didn't even have one of those "impact drivers" that you hit
with a mallet. My father used the 16 penny just for the bet, and it was
right through the top of at piece of scrap, laying on the ground . Part of
what makes a nail bend is the kinetic energy transmitted to the metal in the
form of heat from beating on it multiple times with the hammer. It actually
softens the metal. Have you ever touched a nail after it has bent...its hot.
The whole trick of why it worked, and I have repeated it myself, is that by
using all the force of the 2 X 4 in one strike, keeps the nail from bending.
Try it and them come back and apologize for accusing me of lying.

DavidF

 "Mike Koewler" <wordwiz@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:c2e51$44443095$422aabf1$32296@FUSE.NET...
> DavidF wrote:
> > Chuck,
> >I was at a construction job site where
> > we were putting down a hardwood floor of thick, seasoned oak flooring,
when
> > my father stopped by. Most of the crew were constantly bending nails and
> > complaining about how difficult it was to nail the flooring. My father
bet
> > them that he could drive a 16 penny nail through the oak flooring with
one
> > hit, if he was allowed to just get the nail started. Of course, everyone
> > took his bet, at which point my father set aside the "right" tool, the
> > hammer, picked up a 8 ft. 2X4, raised it over his head, and in one big
swing
> > drove that nail through the oak, down to the head...and won the bet
without
> > using the "right" tool.
>
> Seems like he should have used the right tool. I would have taken a
> drill bit and drilled a hole through the oak and into the joist, then
> driven the nail through it. Furthermore, I have to, excuse me, call your
> anecdote "BS." The oak board would have offered more resistance than the
> 2x4 your dad used, thus keeping it from driving the nail completely in.
> I also wonder what kind of woodworking one would be doing that would
> require driving a 16 penny nail into a board, especially a floor. Unless
> he was driving it in the middle of the board instead of the end, or the
> wood was green, it would split out the end.
>
> If you are going to use an analogy, please try to make sure it is
realistic!
>
> Mike
> >
> > Publisher has many limitations, both in generating HTML code and as a
DTP,
> > but if it is the only tool one has, then it can be the "right" tool. If
one
> > wants to send a basic, one page HTML formatted email or produce a simple
> > static website, then should one invest $200 to buy, and the time to
learn
> > FrontPage...or $400 to buy DreamWeaver? Or should one learn to use the
tool
> > they own in the "right" way?
> >
> > My objection is to automatically dismissing Publisher as the "wrong
tool"
> > because there are better tools for the job. This is a Publisher
newsgroup,
> > and even though there is nothing wrong with telling people about better
> > methods and tools, I think we also owe people an explanation of how best
to
> > use, the "right" way to use Publisher to accomplish the task within the
> > limitations of the tool.
> >
> > DavidF
> >
> >
> > "Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
> > news:#n0q0hbYGHA.1348@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> >
> >>David,
> >>
> >>I was in the cabinet making business for 18 years. My motto then, and
now
> >
> > is
> >
> >>"Use the right tool for the job."  My apprentaces were always grabbing
the
> >>closest tool and messing up their project. If you had used the right
tool
> >>(FrontPage instead of a desktop publishing tool; Publisher), you
probably
> >>wouldn't have posted your original question.
> >>"DavidF" <Nope@nospam.com> wrote in message
> >>news:%23KHDt5ZYGHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >>
> >>>I would also like to know why Ed, Don, Rob and JoAnn are so dead set
> >>>against
> >>>using Publisher for this purpose. It is really not that hard, and if
you
> >>>take the time to set it up correctly, it works well. You even have the
> >>>option of sending as a single image via this tool, if you don't want to
> >>>use
> >>>HTML. What am I missing?
> >>>
> >>>DavidF
> >>>
> >>>"Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
> >>>news:OreyHnZYGHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> >>>
> >>>>Rob,
> >>>>
> >>>>I have a question regarding your statement "...don't use Outlook...use
> >>>>Outlook Express. I have an HTML newsletter developed in FrontPage. It
> >
> > is
> >
> >>>>essentially a 600 pixel wide table. It is sent to 1,482 recipients via
> >
> > MS
> >
> >>>>Office Outlook (originally Outlook 97, then 2000, and now 2003). Will
> >
> > you
> >
> >>>>explain why one shouldn't use Outlook? What am I missing?
> >>>>"Rob Giordano (Crash)" <webmaster@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in
> >
> > message
> >
> >>>>news:e8JrmPZYGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >>>>
> >>>>>If  you're gonna try the html route..don't use Publisher and don't
> >
> > use
> >
> >>>>>Outlook...use Outlook Express.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"Shawn458" <Shawn458@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:EDA296C6-D022-4F03-91D9-C20BDB9C4F43@microsoft.com...
> >>>>>|I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an HTML
> >>>>>file
> >>>>>that
> >>>>>| will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs (Outlook,
> >>>
> >>>Outlook
> >>>
> >>>>>| Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).
> >>>>>|
> >>>>>| Please advise if you have any suggestions.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >


0
Nope8657 (939)
4/18/2006 1:15:59 AM
David,

> I thought I was finished.... I guess you would have lost the bet that day
> too. Why in the world would I make this up?  First of all we were not using
> 16 penny nails to nail the floor...we were using finishing nails in the side
> and note that this was about 30 years ago before air tools were even
> available. 
Who mentioned air tools? I "know" electrically driven drills were 
available then - I used them.
We didn't even have one of those "impact drivers" that you hit
> with a mallet. My father used the 16 penny just for the bet, and it was
> right through the top of at piece of scrap, laying on the ground . Part of
> what makes a nail bend is the kinetic energy transmitted to the metal in the
> form of heat from beating on it multiple times with the hammer. 

Good grief - what makes a nail bend has absolutely nothing to do with 
kinetic heat - it has to do with striking it at the wrong angle. It's 
apparent you are not a carpenter.
It actually
> softens the metal. Have you ever touched a nail after it has bent...its hot.
> The whole trick of why it worked, and I have repeated it myself, is that by
> using all the force of the 2 X 4 in one strike, keeps the nail from bending.
Oh, I see. According to the World According to DavidF, hitting a nail 
with a hammer produces kinetic heat which causes a nail to bend, but 
hitting it with a board doesn't which means the nail will go straight 
in? Do you sell bridges for a living? Or land?

> Try it and them come back and apologize for accusing me of lying.

Try it yourself and then come back and apologize for posting false 
analogies. Go ahead. Film it. I'll even allow you to start the nail 
(remember - this is a 16 penny nail) in the oak board. Then, take your 
2x4. Take one swing. Film it so us unbelievers can witness a miracle.

David, your story has more holes than a sieve. A piece of scrap, laying 
on the ground. A 3.5" nail. An oak board. Using a piece of wood to drive 
the nail completely through it with one swing.

Should I submit your tale to snopes.com? This is one of the biggest 
urban legends I have ever heard.

Mike
> 
> DavidF
> 
>  "Mike Koewler" <wordwiz@fuse.net> wrote in message
> news:c2e51$44443095$422aabf1$32296@FUSE.NET...
> 
>>DavidF wrote:
>>
>>>Chuck,
>>>I was at a construction job site where
>>>we were putting down a hardwood floor of thick, seasoned oak flooring,
> 
> when
> 
>>>my father stopped by. Most of the crew were constantly bending nails and
>>>complaining about how difficult it was to nail the flooring. My father
> 
> bet
> 
>>>them that he could drive a 16 penny nail through the oak flooring with
> 
> one
> 
>>>hit, if he was allowed to just get the nail started. Of course, everyone
>>>took his bet, at which point my father set aside the "right" tool, the
>>>hammer, picked up a 8 ft. 2X4, raised it over his head, and in one big
> 
> swing
> 
>>>drove that nail through the oak, down to the head...and won the bet
> 
> without
> 
>>>using the "right" tool.
>>
>>Seems like he should have used the right tool. I would have taken a
>>drill bit and drilled a hole through the oak and into the joist, then
>>driven the nail through it. Furthermore, I have to, excuse me, call your
>>anecdote "BS." The oak board would have offered more resistance than the
>>2x4 your dad used, thus keeping it from driving the nail completely in.
>>I also wonder what kind of woodworking one would be doing that would
>>require driving a 16 penny nail into a board, especially a floor. Unless
>>he was driving it in the middle of the board instead of the end, or the
>>wood was green, it would split out the end.
>>
>>If you are going to use an analogy, please try to make sure it is
> 
> realistic!
> 
>>Mike
>>
>>>Publisher has many limitations, both in generating HTML code and as a
> 
> DTP,
> 
>>>but if it is the only tool one has, then it can be the "right" tool. If
> 
> one
> 
>>>wants to send a basic, one page HTML formatted email or produce a simple
>>>static website, then should one invest $200 to buy, and the time to
> 
> learn
> 
>>>FrontPage...or $400 to buy DreamWeaver? Or should one learn to use the
> 
> tool
> 
>>>they own in the "right" way?
>>>
>>>My objection is to automatically dismissing Publisher as the "wrong
> 
> tool"
> 
>>>because there are better tools for the job. This is a Publisher
> 
> newsgroup,
> 
>>>and even though there is nothing wrong with telling people about better
>>>methods and tools, I think we also owe people an explanation of how best
> 
> to
> 
>>>use, the "right" way to use Publisher to accomplish the task within the
>>>limitations of the tool.
>>>
>>>DavidF
>>>
>>>
>>>"Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
>>>news:#n0q0hbYGHA.1348@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>
>>>>David,
>>>>
>>>>I was in the cabinet making business for 18 years. My motto then, and
> 
> now
> 
>>>is
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Use the right tool for the job."  My apprentaces were always grabbing
> 
> the
> 
>>>>closest tool and messing up their project. If you had used the right
> 
> tool
> 
>>>>(FrontPage instead of a desktop publishing tool; Publisher), you
> 
> probably
> 
>>>>wouldn't have posted your original question.
>>>>"DavidF" <Nope@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:%23KHDt5ZYGHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I would also like to know why Ed, Don, Rob and JoAnn are so dead set
>>>>>against
>>>>>using Publisher for this purpose. It is really not that hard, and if
> 
> you
> 
>>>>>take the time to set it up correctly, it works well. You even have the
>>>>>option of sending as a single image via this tool, if you don't want to
>>>>>use
>>>>>HTML. What am I missing?
>>>>>
>>>>>DavidF
>>>>>
>>>>>"Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:OreyHnZYGHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Rob,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have a question regarding your statement "...don't use Outlook...use
>>>>>>Outlook Express. I have an HTML newsletter developed in FrontPage. It
>>>
>>>is
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>essentially a 600 pixel wide table. It is sent to 1,482 recipients via
>>>
>>>MS
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>Office Outlook (originally Outlook 97, then 2000, and now 2003). Will
>>>
>>>you
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>explain why one shouldn't use Outlook? What am I missing?
>>>>>>"Rob Giordano (Crash)" <webmaster@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in
>>>
>>>message
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>news:e8JrmPZYGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If  you're gonna try the html route..don't use Publisher and don't
>>>
>>>use
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>Outlook...use Outlook Express.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Shawn458" <Shawn458@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:EDA296C6-D022-4F03-91D9-C20BDB9C4F43@microsoft.com...
>>>>>>>|I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an HTML
>>>>>>>file
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>| will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs (Outlook,
>>>>>
>>>>>Outlook
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>| Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).
>>>>>>>|
>>>>>>>| Please advise if you have any suggestions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
> 
> 
0
wordwiz (948)
4/18/2006 2:54:54 AM
This is getting silly, but again ask yourself why I would take the time to
make all of this up?

I am neither a carpenter or a scientist, so I may not be able to explain the
science well or accurately, but let's try a little. First of all, I don't
believe there is any such thing as kinetic heat. There is kinetic energy
developed by raising a hammer (or a 2 X 4), and coming down on a nail. The
wood resists that downward energy, which converts the kinetic energy into
heat in the nail. If you apply enough downward force, you overcome the
resistance of the wood, and the nail is driven downward, or the kinetic
energy is converted into movement instead of heat. If you continue to hit a
nail without driving it downward, as might happen when trying to nail hard
wood, then you have a build up of heat, which causes a "softening" of the
metal, or "plastic deformation" that allows the nail to bend (see reference
below).  It then follows that the fewer times you strike a nail, with the
greatest force, the less likely the nail is to bend.

Yes, striking a nail at the wrong angle will bend a nail. However, have you
ever had the occasion where you have been driving a nail into a hard surface
(a good example other than hardwood, would be concrete), and though you have
hit the nail squarely each time, it still bends somewhere in the middle of
the nail, rather than at the surface which is what happens when you strike
the nail at the wrong angle? The nail bent in the middle because of the
metal "softening".

Think about the power drivers that are available today that drive small
nails, and even staples. If you were to take the those nails or staples, you
would probably find it hard to impossible to drive them without bending if
you used a hammer. They don't bend with the power drivers because of the
extreme "kinetic" energy...the force they apply in one "strike". The
principle is the same...the 2 X 4 can apply a lot more force to the nail in
one strike than a hammer, which helps prevent the bending of the nail.

Here are three references: ( I don't have more time to waste)
"Describe the forces acting between the nail and hammer during the collision
between the two"
http://rabi.phys.virginia.edu/106/2000/ps10a.html
Hammer action : "...To avoid bending nails, drive them home by using as few
blows as possible,..
http://iafrica.com/diy/repairs/909602.htm
And:
http://www.chaosscience.org.uk/pub/public_html//article.php?story=2004101420
0639313

Now, you do a lot of remodeling I believe, so you probably have some 2 X 4s
laying around. If you don't have any hardwood, then just use another 2 X 4
instead, and try it. It will still work. As for me...yes I have done this a
number of times to prove it to people...and to win bets, but I am sure not
going to make a film to prove it. I have already wasted way too much time on
this silly conversation. I know I am speaking the truth, and you can
continue to call me a liar if you want. But before you do, I would suggest
that you simply try it.

color me gone....DavidF

"Mike Koewler" <wordwiz@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:83562$44445497$422aabf1$15271@FUSE.NET...
> David,
>
> > I thought I was finished.... I guess you would have lost the bet that
day
> > too. Why in the world would I make this up?  First of all we were not
using
> > 16 penny nails to nail the floor...we were using finishing nails in the
side
> > and note that this was about 30 years ago before air tools were even
> > available.
> Who mentioned air tools? I "know" electrically driven drills were
> available then - I used them.
> We didn't even have one of those "impact drivers" that you hit
> > with a mallet. My father used the 16 penny just for the bet, and it was
> > right through the top of at piece of scrap, laying on the ground . Part
of
> > what makes a nail bend is the kinetic energy transmitted to the metal in
the
> > form of heat from beating on it multiple times with the hammer.
>
> Good grief - what makes a nail bend has absolutely nothing to do with
> kinetic heat - it has to do with striking it at the wrong angle. It's
> apparent you are not a carpenter.
> It actually
> > softens the metal. Have you ever touched a nail after it has bent...its
hot.
> > The whole trick of why it worked, and I have repeated it myself, is that
by
> > using all the force of the 2 X 4 in one strike, keeps the nail from
bending.
> Oh, I see. According to the World According to DavidF, hitting a nail
> with a hammer produces kinetic heat which causes a nail to bend, but
> hitting it with a board doesn't which means the nail will go straight
> in? Do you sell bridges for a living? Or land?
>
> > Try it and them come back and apologize for accusing me of lying.
>
> Try it yourself and then come back and apologize for posting false
> analogies. Go ahead. Film it. I'll even allow you to start the nail
> (remember - this is a 16 penny nail) in the oak board. Then, take your
> 2x4. Take one swing. Film it so us unbelievers can witness a miracle.
>
> David, your story has more holes than a sieve. A piece of scrap, laying
> on the ground. A 3.5" nail. An oak board. Using a piece of wood to drive
> the nail completely through it with one swing.
>
> Should I submit your tale to snopes.com? This is one of the biggest
> urban legends I have ever heard.
>
> Mike
> >
> > DavidF
> >
> >  "Mike Koewler" <wordwiz@fuse.net> wrote in message
> > news:c2e51$44443095$422aabf1$32296@FUSE.NET...
> >
> >>DavidF wrote:
> >>
> >>>Chuck,
> >>>I was at a construction job site where
> >>>we were putting down a hardwood floor of thick, seasoned oak flooring,
> >
> > when
> >
> >>>my father stopped by. Most of the crew were constantly bending nails
and
> >>>complaining about how difficult it was to nail the flooring. My father
> >
> > bet
> >
> >>>them that he could drive a 16 penny nail through the oak flooring with
> >
> > one
> >
> >>>hit, if he was allowed to just get the nail started. Of course,
everyone
> >>>took his bet, at which point my father set aside the "right" tool, the
> >>>hammer, picked up a 8 ft. 2X4, raised it over his head, and in one big
> >
> > swing
> >
> >>>drove that nail through the oak, down to the head...and won the bet
> >
> > without
> >
> >>>using the "right" tool.
> >>
> >>Seems like he should have used the right tool. I would have taken a
> >>drill bit and drilled a hole through the oak and into the joist, then
> >>driven the nail through it. Furthermore, I have to, excuse me, call your
> >>anecdote "BS." The oak board would have offered more resistance than the
> >>2x4 your dad used, thus keeping it from driving the nail completely in.
> >>I also wonder what kind of woodworking one would be doing that would
> >>require driving a 16 penny nail into a board, especially a floor. Unless
> >>he was driving it in the middle of the board instead of the end, or the
> >>wood was green, it would split out the end.
> >>
> >>If you are going to use an analogy, please try to make sure it is
> >
> > realistic!
> >
> >>Mike
> >>
> >>>Publisher has many limitations, both in generating HTML code and as a
> >
> > DTP,
> >
> >>>but if it is the only tool one has, then it can be the "right" tool. If
> >
> > one
> >
> >>>wants to send a basic, one page HTML formatted email or produce a
simple
> >>>static website, then should one invest $200 to buy, and the time to
> >
> > learn
> >
> >>>FrontPage...or $400 to buy DreamWeaver? Or should one learn to use the
> >
> > tool
> >
> >>>they own in the "right" way?
> >>>
> >>>My objection is to automatically dismissing Publisher as the "wrong
> >
> > tool"
> >
> >>>because there are better tools for the job. This is a Publisher
> >
> > newsgroup,
> >
> >>>and even though there is nothing wrong with telling people about better
> >>>methods and tools, I think we also owe people an explanation of how
best
> >
> > to
> >
> >>>use, the "right" way to use Publisher to accomplish the task within the
> >>>limitations of the tool.
> >>>
> >>>DavidF
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
> >>>news:#n0q0hbYGHA.1348@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>David,
> >>>>
> >>>>I was in the cabinet making business for 18 years. My motto then, and
> >
> > now
> >
> >>>is
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>"Use the right tool for the job."  My apprentaces were always grabbing
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>>closest tool and messing up their project. If you had used the right
> >
> > tool
> >
> >>>>(FrontPage instead of a desktop publishing tool; Publisher), you
> >
> > probably
> >
> >>>>wouldn't have posted your original question.
> >>>>"DavidF" <Nope@nospam.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:%23KHDt5ZYGHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>I would also like to know why Ed, Don, Rob and JoAnn are so dead set
> >>>>>against
> >>>>>using Publisher for this purpose. It is really not that hard, and if
> >
> > you
> >
> >>>>>take the time to set it up correctly, it works well. You even have
the
> >>>>>option of sending as a single image via this tool, if you don't want
to
> >>>>>use
> >>>>>HTML. What am I missing?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>DavidF
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:OreyHnZYGHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Rob,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I have a question regarding your statement "...don't use
Outlook...use
> >>>>>>Outlook Express. I have an HTML newsletter developed in FrontPage.
It
> >>>
> >>>is
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>essentially a 600 pixel wide table. It is sent to 1,482 recipients
via
> >>>
> >>>MS
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>Office Outlook (originally Outlook 97, then 2000, and now 2003).
Will
> >>>
> >>>you
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>explain why one shouldn't use Outlook? What am I missing?
> >>>>>>"Rob Giordano (Crash)" <webmaster@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in
> >>>
> >>>message
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>news:e8JrmPZYGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>If  you're gonna try the html route..don't use Publisher and don't
> >>>
> >>>use
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>Outlook...use Outlook Express.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"Shawn458" <Shawn458@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:EDA296C6-D022-4F03-91D9-C20BDB9C4F43@microsoft.com...
> >>>>>>>|I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an HTML
> >>>>>>>file
> >>>>>>>that
> >>>>>>>| will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs (Outlook,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Outlook
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>| Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).
> >>>>>>>|
> >>>>>>>| Please advise if you have any suggestions.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >
> >


0
Nope8657 (939)
4/18/2006 2:50:24 PM
I use glue.


-- 
Don
"May your shadow be found in happy places." (Native North American)


"DavidF" <Nope@nospam.com> wrote in message 
news:eZ$RQevYGHA.4580@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> This is getting silly, but again ask yourself why I would take the time to
> make all of this up?
>
> I am neither a carpenter or a scientist, so I may not be able to explain 
> the
> science well or accurately, but let's try a little. First of all, I don't
> believe there is any such thing as kinetic heat. There is kinetic energy
> developed by raising a hammer (or a 2 X 4), and coming down on a nail. The
> wood resists that downward energy, which converts the kinetic energy into
> heat in the nail. If you apply enough downward force, you overcome the
> resistance of the wood, and the nail is driven downward, or the kinetic
> energy is converted into movement instead of heat. If you continue to hit 
> a
> nail without driving it downward, as might happen when trying to nail hard
> wood, then you have a build up of heat, which causes a "softening" of the
> metal, or "plastic deformation" that allows the nail to bend (see 
> reference
> below).  It then follows that the fewer times you strike a nail, with the
> greatest force, the less likely the nail is to bend.
>
> Yes, striking a nail at the wrong angle will bend a nail. However, have 
> you
> ever had the occasion where you have been driving a nail into a hard 
> surface
> (a good example other than hardwood, would be concrete), and though you 
> have
> hit the nail squarely each time, it still bends somewhere in the middle of
> the nail, rather than at the surface which is what happens when you strike
> the nail at the wrong angle? The nail bent in the middle because of the
> metal "softening".
>
> Think about the power drivers that are available today that drive small
> nails, and even staples. If you were to take the those nails or staples, 
> you
> would probably find it hard to impossible to drive them without bending if
> you used a hammer. They don't bend with the power drivers because of the
> extreme "kinetic" energy...the force they apply in one "strike". The
> principle is the same...the 2 X 4 can apply a lot more force to the nail 
> in
> one strike than a hammer, which helps prevent the bending of the nail.
>
> Here are three references: ( I don't have more time to waste)
> "Describe the forces acting between the nail and hammer during the 
> collision
> between the two"
> http://rabi.phys.virginia.edu/106/2000/ps10a.html
> Hammer action : "...To avoid bending nails, drive them home by using as 
> few
> blows as possible,..
> http://iafrica.com/diy/repairs/909602.htm
> And:
> http://www.chaosscience.org.uk/pub/public_html//article.php?story=2004101420
> 0639313
>
> Now, you do a lot of remodeling I believe, so you probably have some 2 X 
> 4s
> laying around. If you don't have any hardwood, then just use another 2 X 4
> instead, and try it. It will still work. As for me...yes I have done this 
> a
> number of times to prove it to people...and to win bets, but I am sure not
> going to make a film to prove it. I have already wasted way too much time 
> on
> this silly conversation. I know I am speaking the truth, and you can
> continue to call me a liar if you want. But before you do, I would suggest
> that you simply try it.
>
> color me gone....DavidF
>
> "Mike Koewler" <wordwiz@fuse.net> wrote in message
> news:83562$44445497$422aabf1$15271@FUSE.NET...
>> David,
>>
>> > I thought I was finished.... I guess you would have lost the bet that
> day
>> > too. Why in the world would I make this up?  First of all we were not
> using
>> > 16 penny nails to nail the floor...we were using finishing nails in the
> side
>> > and note that this was about 30 years ago before air tools were even
>> > available.
>> Who mentioned air tools? I "know" electrically driven drills were
>> available then - I used them.
>> We didn't even have one of those "impact drivers" that you hit
>> > with a mallet. My father used the 16 penny just for the bet, and it was
>> > right through the top of at piece of scrap, laying on the ground . Part
> of
>> > what makes a nail bend is the kinetic energy transmitted to the metal 
>> > in
> the
>> > form of heat from beating on it multiple times with the hammer.
>>
>> Good grief - what makes a nail bend has absolutely nothing to do with
>> kinetic heat - it has to do with striking it at the wrong angle. It's
>> apparent you are not a carpenter.
>> It actually
>> > softens the metal. Have you ever touched a nail after it has bent...its
> hot.
>> > The whole trick of why it worked, and I have repeated it myself, is 
>> > that
> by
>> > using all the force of the 2 X 4 in one strike, keeps the nail from
> bending.
>> Oh, I see. According to the World According to DavidF, hitting a nail
>> with a hammer produces kinetic heat which causes a nail to bend, but
>> hitting it with a board doesn't which means the nail will go straight
>> in? Do you sell bridges for a living? Or land?
>>
>> > Try it and them come back and apologize for accusing me of lying.
>>
>> Try it yourself and then come back and apologize for posting false
>> analogies. Go ahead. Film it. I'll even allow you to start the nail
>> (remember - this is a 16 penny nail) in the oak board. Then, take your
>> 2x4. Take one swing. Film it so us unbelievers can witness a miracle.
>>
>> David, your story has more holes than a sieve. A piece of scrap, laying
>> on the ground. A 3.5" nail. An oak board. Using a piece of wood to drive
>> the nail completely through it with one swing.
>>
>> Should I submit your tale to snopes.com? This is one of the biggest
>> urban legends I have ever heard.
>>
>> Mike
>> >
>> > DavidF
>> >
>> >  "Mike Koewler" <wordwiz@fuse.net> wrote in message
>> > news:c2e51$44443095$422aabf1$32296@FUSE.NET...
>> >
>> >>DavidF wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Chuck,
>> >>>I was at a construction job site where
>> >>>we were putting down a hardwood floor of thick, seasoned oak flooring,
>> >
>> > when
>> >
>> >>>my father stopped by. Most of the crew were constantly bending nails
> and
>> >>>complaining about how difficult it was to nail the flooring. My father
>> >
>> > bet
>> >
>> >>>them that he could drive a 16 penny nail through the oak flooring with
>> >
>> > one
>> >
>> >>>hit, if he was allowed to just get the nail started. Of course,
> everyone
>> >>>took his bet, at which point my father set aside the "right" tool, the
>> >>>hammer, picked up a 8 ft. 2X4, raised it over his head, and in one big
>> >
>> > swing
>> >
>> >>>drove that nail through the oak, down to the head...and won the bet
>> >
>> > without
>> >
>> >>>using the "right" tool.
>> >>
>> >>Seems like he should have used the right tool. I would have taken a
>> >>drill bit and drilled a hole through the oak and into the joist, then
>> >>driven the nail through it. Furthermore, I have to, excuse me, call 
>> >>your
>> >>anecdote "BS." The oak board would have offered more resistance than 
>> >>the
>> >>2x4 your dad used, thus keeping it from driving the nail completely in.
>> >>I also wonder what kind of woodworking one would be doing that would
>> >>require driving a 16 penny nail into a board, especially a floor. 
>> >>Unless
>> >>he was driving it in the middle of the board instead of the end, or the
>> >>wood was green, it would split out the end.
>> >>
>> >>If you are going to use an analogy, please try to make sure it is
>> >
>> > realistic!
>> >
>> >>Mike
>> >>
>> >>>Publisher has many limitations, both in generating HTML code and as a
>> >
>> > DTP,
>> >
>> >>>but if it is the only tool one has, then it can be the "right" tool. 
>> >>>If
>> >
>> > one
>> >
>> >>>wants to send a basic, one page HTML formatted email or produce a
> simple
>> >>>static website, then should one invest $200 to buy, and the time to
>> >
>> > learn
>> >
>> >>>FrontPage...or $400 to buy DreamWeaver? Or should one learn to use the
>> >
>> > tool
>> >
>> >>>they own in the "right" way?
>> >>>
>> >>>My objection is to automatically dismissing Publisher as the "wrong
>> >
>> > tool"
>> >
>> >>>because there are better tools for the job. This is a Publisher
>> >
>> > newsgroup,
>> >
>> >>>and even though there is nothing wrong with telling people about 
>> >>>better
>> >>>methods and tools, I think we also owe people an explanation of how
> best
>> >
>> > to
>> >
>> >>>use, the "right" way to use Publisher to accomplish the task within 
>> >>>the
>> >>>limitations of the tool.
>> >>>
>> >>>DavidF
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>"Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
>> >>>news:#n0q0hbYGHA.1348@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>David,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I was in the cabinet making business for 18 years. My motto then, and
>> >
>> > now
>> >
>> >>>is
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>"Use the right tool for the job."  My apprentaces were always 
>> >>>>grabbing
>> >
>> > the
>> >
>> >>>>closest tool and messing up their project. If you had used the right
>> >
>> > tool
>> >
>> >>>>(FrontPage instead of a desktop publishing tool; Publisher), you
>> >
>> > probably
>> >
>> >>>>wouldn't have posted your original question.
>> >>>>"DavidF" <Nope@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>news:%23KHDt5ZYGHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>I would also like to know why Ed, Don, Rob and JoAnn are so dead set
>> >>>>>against
>> >>>>>using Publisher for this purpose. It is really not that hard, and if
>> >
>> > you
>> >
>> >>>>>take the time to set it up correctly, it works well. You even have
> the
>> >>>>>option of sending as a single image via this tool, if you don't want
> to
>> >>>>>use
>> >>>>>HTML. What am I missing?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>DavidF
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>"Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
>> >>>>>news:OreyHnZYGHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>Rob,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>I have a question regarding your statement "...don't use
> Outlook...use
>> >>>>>>Outlook Express. I have an HTML newsletter developed in FrontPage.
> It
>> >>>
>> >>>is
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>>essentially a 600 pixel wide table. It is sent to 1,482 recipients
> via
>> >>>
>> >>>MS
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>>Office Outlook (originally Outlook 97, then 2000, and now 2003).
> Will
>> >>>
>> >>>you
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>>explain why one shouldn't use Outlook? What am I missing?
>> >>>>>>"Rob Giordano (Crash)" <webmaster@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in
>> >>>
>> >>>message
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>>news:e8JrmPZYGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>If  you're gonna try the html route..don't use Publisher and don't
>> >>>
>> >>>use
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>Outlook...use Outlook Express.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>"Shawn458" <Shawn458@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>news:EDA296C6-D022-4F03-91D9-C20BDB9C4F43@microsoft.com...
>> >>>>>>>|I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an 
>> >>>>>>>HTML
>> >>>>>>>file
>> >>>>>>>that
>> >>>>>>>| will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs (Outlook,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Outlook
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>| Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).
>> >>>>>>>|
>> >>>>>>>| Please advise if you have any suggestions.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>
>> >
>> >
>
> 


0
Don
4/18/2006 4:00:28 PM
velcro


"Don Schmidt" <Don Retired Engineer@PNB.1987> wrote in message 
news:124a38g6e6hm64d@corp.supernews.com...
|I use glue.
|
|
| -- 
| Don
| "May your shadow be found in happy places." (Native North American)
|
|
| "DavidF" <Nope@nospam.com> wrote in message
| news:eZ$RQevYGHA.4580@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
| > This is getting silly, but again ask yourself why I would take the time 
to
| > make all of this up?
| >
| > I am neither a carpenter or a scientist, so I may not be able to explain
| > the
| > science well or accurately, but let's try a little. First of all, I 
don't
| > believe there is any such thing as kinetic heat. There is kinetic energy
| > developed by raising a hammer (or a 2 X 4), and coming down on a nail. 
The
| > wood resists that downward energy, which converts the kinetic energy 
into
| > heat in the nail. If you apply enough downward force, you overcome the
| > resistance of the wood, and the nail is driven downward, or the kinetic
| > energy is converted into movement instead of heat. If you continue to 
hit
| > a
| > nail without driving it downward, as might happen when trying to nail 
hard
| > wood, then you have a build up of heat, which causes a "softening" of 
the
| > metal, or "plastic deformation" that allows the nail to bend (see
| > reference
| > below).  It then follows that the fewer times you strike a nail, with 
the
| > greatest force, the less likely the nail is to bend.
| >
| > Yes, striking a nail at the wrong angle will bend a nail. However, have
| > you
| > ever had the occasion where you have been driving a nail into a hard
| > surface
| > (a good example other than hardwood, would be concrete), and though you
| > have
| > hit the nail squarely each time, it still bends somewhere in the middle 
of
| > the nail, rather than at the surface which is what happens when you 
strike
| > the nail at the wrong angle? The nail bent in the middle because of the
| > metal "softening".
| >
| > Think about the power drivers that are available today that drive small
| > nails, and even staples. If you were to take the those nails or staples,
| > you
| > would probably find it hard to impossible to drive them without bending 
if
| > you used a hammer. They don't bend with the power drivers because of the
| > extreme "kinetic" energy...the force they apply in one "strike". The
| > principle is the same...the 2 X 4 can apply a lot more force to the nail
| > in
| > one strike than a hammer, which helps prevent the bending of the nail.
| >
| > Here are three references: ( I don't have more time to waste)
| > "Describe the forces acting between the nail and hammer during the
| > collision
| > between the two"
| > http://rabi.phys.virginia.edu/106/2000/ps10a.html
| > Hammer action : "...To avoid bending nails, drive them home by using as
| > few
| > blows as possible,..
| > http://iafrica.com/diy/repairs/909602.htm
| > And:
| > 
http://www.chaosscience.org.uk/pub/public_html//article.php?story=2004101420
| > 0639313
| >
| > Now, you do a lot of remodeling I believe, so you probably have some 2 X
| > 4s
| > laying around. If you don't have any hardwood, then just use another 2 X 
4
| > instead, and try it. It will still work. As for me...yes I have done 
this
| > a
| > number of times to prove it to people...and to win bets, but I am sure 
not
| > going to make a film to prove it. I have already wasted way too much 
time
| > on
| > this silly conversation. I know I am speaking the truth, and you can
| > continue to call me a liar if you want. But before you do, I would 
suggest
| > that you simply try it.
| >
| > color me gone....DavidF
| >
| > "Mike Koewler" <wordwiz@fuse.net> wrote in message
| > news:83562$44445497$422aabf1$15271@FUSE.NET...
| >> David,
| >>
| >> > I thought I was finished.... I guess you would have lost the bet that
| > day
| >> > too. Why in the world would I make this up?  First of all we were not
| > using
| >> > 16 penny nails to nail the floor...we were using finishing nails in 
the
| > side
| >> > and note that this was about 30 years ago before air tools were even
| >> > available.
| >> Who mentioned air tools? I "know" electrically driven drills were
| >> available then - I used them.
| >> We didn't even have one of those "impact drivers" that you hit
| >> > with a mallet. My father used the 16 penny just for the bet, and it 
was
| >> > right through the top of at piece of scrap, laying on the ground . 
Part
| > of
| >> > what makes a nail bend is the kinetic energy transmitted to the metal
| >> > in
| > the
| >> > form of heat from beating on it multiple times with the hammer.
| >>
| >> Good grief - what makes a nail bend has absolutely nothing to do with
| >> kinetic heat - it has to do with striking it at the wrong angle. It's
| >> apparent you are not a carpenter.
| >> It actually
| >> > softens the metal. Have you ever touched a nail after it has 
bent...its
| > hot.
| >> > The whole trick of why it worked, and I have repeated it myself, is
| >> > that
| > by
| >> > using all the force of the 2 X 4 in one strike, keeps the nail from
| > bending.
| >> Oh, I see. According to the World According to DavidF, hitting a nail
| >> with a hammer produces kinetic heat which causes a nail to bend, but
| >> hitting it with a board doesn't which means the nail will go straight
| >> in? Do you sell bridges for a living? Or land?
| >>
| >> > Try it and them come back and apologize for accusing me of lying.
| >>
| >> Try it yourself and then come back and apologize for posting false
| >> analogies. Go ahead. Film it. I'll even allow you to start the nail
| >> (remember - this is a 16 penny nail) in the oak board. Then, take your
| >> 2x4. Take one swing. Film it so us unbelievers can witness a miracle.
| >>
| >> David, your story has more holes than a sieve. A piece of scrap, laying
| >> on the ground. A 3.5" nail. An oak board. Using a piece of wood to 
drive
| >> the nail completely through it with one swing.
| >>
| >> Should I submit your tale to snopes.com? This is one of the biggest
| >> urban legends I have ever heard.
| >>
| >> Mike
| >> >
| >> > DavidF
| >> >
| >> >  "Mike Koewler" <wordwiz@fuse.net> wrote in message
| >> > news:c2e51$44443095$422aabf1$32296@FUSE.NET...
| >> >
| >> >>DavidF wrote:
| >> >>
| >> >>>Chuck,
| >> >>>I was at a construction job site where
| >> >>>we were putting down a hardwood floor of thick, seasoned oak 
flooring,
| >> >
| >> > when
| >> >
| >> >>>my father stopped by. Most of the crew were constantly bending nails
| > and
| >> >>>complaining about how difficult it was to nail the flooring. My 
father
| >> >
| >> > bet
| >> >
| >> >>>them that he could drive a 16 penny nail through the oak flooring 
with
| >> >
| >> > one
| >> >
| >> >>>hit, if he was allowed to just get the nail started. Of course,
| > everyone
| >> >>>took his bet, at which point my father set aside the "right" tool, 
the
| >> >>>hammer, picked up a 8 ft. 2X4, raised it over his head, and in one 
big
| >> >
| >> > swing
| >> >
| >> >>>drove that nail through the oak, down to the head...and won the bet
| >> >
| >> > without
| >> >
| >> >>>using the "right" tool.
| >> >>
| >> >>Seems like he should have used the right tool. I would have taken a
| >> >>drill bit and drilled a hole through the oak and into the joist, then
| >> >>driven the nail through it. Furthermore, I have to, excuse me, call
| >> >>your
| >> >>anecdote "BS." The oak board would have offered more resistance than
| >> >>the
| >> >>2x4 your dad used, thus keeping it from driving the nail completely 
in.
| >> >>I also wonder what kind of woodworking one would be doing that would
| >> >>require driving a 16 penny nail into a board, especially a floor.
| >> >>Unless
| >> >>he was driving it in the middle of the board instead of the end, or 
the
| >> >>wood was green, it would split out the end.
| >> >>
| >> >>If you are going to use an analogy, please try to make sure it is
| >> >
| >> > realistic!
| >> >
| >> >>Mike
| >> >>
| >> >>>Publisher has many limitations, both in generating HTML code and as 
a
| >> >
| >> > DTP,
| >> >
| >> >>>but if it is the only tool one has, then it can be the "right" tool.
| >> >>>If
| >> >
| >> > one
| >> >
| >> >>>wants to send a basic, one page HTML formatted email or produce a
| > simple
| >> >>>static website, then should one invest $200 to buy, and the time to
| >> >
| >> > learn
| >> >
| >> >>>FrontPage...or $400 to buy DreamWeaver? Or should one learn to use 
the
| >> >
| >> > tool
| >> >
| >> >>>they own in the "right" way?
| >> >>>
| >> >>>My objection is to automatically dismissing Publisher as the "wrong
| >> >
| >> > tool"
| >> >
| >> >>>because there are better tools for the job. This is a Publisher
| >> >
| >> > newsgroup,
| >> >
| >> >>>and even though there is nothing wrong with telling people about
| >> >>>better
| >> >>>methods and tools, I think we also owe people an explanation of how
| > best
| >> >
| >> > to
| >> >
| >> >>>use, the "right" way to use Publisher to accomplish the task within
| >> >>>the
| >> >>>limitations of the tool.
| >> >>>
| >> >>>DavidF
| >> >>>
| >> >>>
| >> >>>"Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
| >> >>>news:#n0q0hbYGHA.1348@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
| >> >>>
| >> >>>
| >> >>>>David,
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>>I was in the cabinet making business for 18 years. My motto then, 
and
| >> >
| >> > now
| >> >
| >> >>>is
| >> >>>
| >> >>>
| >> >>>>"Use the right tool for the job."  My apprentaces were always
| >> >>>>grabbing
| >> >
| >> > the
| >> >
| >> >>>>closest tool and messing up their project. If you had used the 
right
| >> >
| >> > tool
| >> >
| >> >>>>(FrontPage instead of a desktop publishing tool; Publisher), you
| >> >
| >> > probably
| >> >
| >> >>>>wouldn't have posted your original question.
| >> >>>>"DavidF" <Nope@nospam.com> wrote in message
| >> >>>>news:%23KHDt5ZYGHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>>
| >> >>>>>I would also like to know why Ed, Don, Rob and JoAnn are so dead 
set
| >> >>>>>against
| >> >>>>>using Publisher for this purpose. It is really not that hard, and 
if
| >> >
| >> > you
| >> >
| >> >>>>>take the time to set it up correctly, it works well. You even have
| > the
| >> >>>>>option of sending as a single image via this tool, if you don't 
want
| > to
| >> >>>>>use
| >> >>>>>HTML. What am I missing?
| >> >>>>>
| >> >>>>>DavidF
| >> >>>>>
| >> >>>>>"Chuck Davis" <newsgroup at anthemwebs dot com> wrote in message
| >> >>>>>news:OreyHnZYGHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
| >> >>>>>
| >> >>>>>
| >> >>>>>>Rob,
| >> >>>>>>
| >> >>>>>>I have a question regarding your statement "...don't use
| > Outlook...use
| >> >>>>>>Outlook Express. I have an HTML newsletter developed in 
FrontPage.
| > It
| >> >>>
| >> >>>is
| >> >>>
| >> >>>
| >> >>>>>>essentially a 600 pixel wide table. It is sent to 1,482 
recipients
| > via
| >> >>>
| >> >>>MS
| >> >>>
| >> >>>
| >> >>>>>>Office Outlook (originally Outlook 97, then 2000, and now 2003).
| > Will
| >> >>>
| >> >>>you
| >> >>>
| >> >>>
| >> >>>>>>explain why one shouldn't use Outlook? What am I missing?
| >> >>>>>>"Rob Giordano (Crash)" <webmaster@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in
| >> >>>
| >> >>>message
| >> >>>
| >> >>>
| >> >>>>>>news:e8JrmPZYGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| >> >>>>>>
| >> >>>>>>
| >> >>>>>>>If  you're gonna try the html route..don't use Publisher and 
don't
| >> >>>
| >> >>>use
| >> >>>
| >> >>>
| >> >>>>>>>Outlook...use Outlook Express.
| >> >>>>>>>
| >> >>>>>>>
| >> >>>>>>>"Shawn458" <Shawn458@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| >> >>>>>>>news:EDA296C6-D022-4F03-91D9-C20BDB9C4F43@microsoft.com...
| >> >>>>>>>|I would like to create a newsletter and send via e-mail as an
| >> >>>>>>>HTML
| >> >>>>>>>file
| >> >>>>>>>that
| >> >>>>>>>| will be viewable by a wide variety of e-mail programs 
(Outlook,
| >> >>>>>
| >> >>>>>Outlook
| >> >>>>>
| >> >>>>>
| >> >>>>>>>| Express, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.).
| >> >>>>>>>|
| >> >>>>>>>| Please advise if you have any suggestions.
| >> >>>>>>>
| >> >>>>>>>
| >> >>>>>>
| >> >>>>>>
| >> >>>
| >> >
| >> >
| >
| >
|
| 


0
webmaster911 (1600)
4/19/2006 1:01:33 AM
Reply:

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