401K Mutual Fund Manual Price Updates

I have a 401K that tracks NAV of the funds differently than the prices 
auto-downloaded by Money for the same symbol (don't ask me why???).  I have 
turned off Auto-Update of those funds so I can manually update the fund 
prices myself.

The problem is that no matter how many times I try to delete previous 
on-line price updates, they remain with the Fund.  This is kind of minor, 
but also kind of annoying.  I've learned when I add a new fund to this 
account to disable price updates before my next update and this works for 
new fund additions, but the old funds are still maintaining those on-line 
price updates.  What's weird is a lot of the prices are from dates before I 
even initially purchased the funds in the account.

I have run the Clear Historical prices and everything else I could find.

Thanks,

Ray 


0
raybosley (11)
5/10/2006 11:42:39 AM
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You need to remove the symbol from the investment details. For two reasons. 
The first reason is it will prevent the investment from updating price. The 
second reason is the answer to your first question. Many 401k plans tell you 
(at the surface) they are investing in fund XYZ. But when you read the fine 
print, what they are really investing in is a "fund" that owns mostly XYZ 
and has some cash floating around for liquidity and has some administrative 
expenses of its own. The problem is that the latter fund isn't publicly 
available and doesn't quote by symbol. For this reason, using the symbol of 
the underlying fund won't work. It won't track the private fund's cash float 
and expenses.

"Ray" <raybosley@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:uD1EWbCdGHA.3632@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>I have a 401K that tracks NAV of the funds differently than the prices 
>auto-downloaded by Money for the same symbol (don't ask me why???).  I have 
>turned off Auto-Update of those funds so I can manually update the fund 
>prices myself.
>
> The problem is that no matter how many times I try to delete previous 
> on-line price updates, they remain with the Fund.  This is kind of minor, 
> but also kind of annoying.  I've learned when I add a new fund to this 
> account to disable price updates before my next update and this works for 
> new fund additions, but the old funds are still maintaining those on-line 
> price updates.  What's weird is a lot of the prices are from dates before 
> I even initially purchased the funds in the account.
>
> I have run the Clear Historical prices and everything else I could find. 


0
5/10/2006 12:05:01 PM
I re-read this differently.

You say you've deleted previous on-line price updates. How so? Price 
history, one-by-one? (The only way I know of besides Update quote list|Clear 
historical quotes which is not symbol selective--it gets everything that was 
in there from quotes before a certain date but not everything as I'm about 
to note.)

IF NAVs for the symbols in question were used as NAVs in transactions (Buys, 
Reinvests, Sells, etc.) then they are getting in price history from these. 
That will be a lot harder to fix after the fact because your shares/units 
will get all screwed up.

Example:
I buy 100 shares of XYZ at $10 per share for a $1000 contribution. That's a 
$10 per share history point without downloading ANYTHING.

I decide that it really wasn't $10 per share, but $67.75 per unit.

Fixing what's in history as a quote now requires changing the 100 shares of 
XYZ at $10 per share to be 14.760148 units of (the fund with no symbol) at 
$67.749998170750049389748666476786 per unit.

"Ray" <raybosley@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:uD1EWbCdGHA.3632@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> I have run the Clear Historical prices and everything else I could find. 


0
5/10/2006 12:21:41 PM
I've been trying to delete all the prices tagged Online one-by-one as these 
are the prices that don't match the 401K quoted prices.  I've been leaving 
in the ones with Buy or Update as I have added those myself and their prices 
match correctly.

The Online prices I delete just seem to keep coming back.  Its not a huge 
deal, just slightly annoying.

Thanks,

Ray

"Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko@mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in 
message news:OyLP4xCdGHA.3952@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>I re-read this differently.
>
> You say you've deleted previous on-line price updates. How so? Price 
> history, one-by-one? (The only way I know of besides Update quote 
> list|Clear historical quotes which is not symbol selective--it gets 
> everything that was in there from quotes before a certain date but not 
> everything as I'm about to note.)
>
> IF NAVs for the symbols in question were used as NAVs in transactions 
> (Buys, Reinvests, Sells, etc.) then they are getting in price history from 
> these. That will be a lot harder to fix after the fact because your 
> shares/units will get all screwed up.
>
> Example:
> I buy 100 shares of XYZ at $10 per share for a $1000 contribution. That's 
> a $10 per share history point without downloading ANYTHING.
>
> I decide that it really wasn't $10 per share, but $67.75 per unit.
>
> Fixing what's in history as a quote now requires changing the 100 shares 
> of XYZ at $10 per share to be 14.760148 units of (the fund with no symbol) 
> at $67.749998170750049389748666476786 per unit.
>
> "Ray" <raybosley@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:uD1EWbCdGHA.3632@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> I have run the Clear Historical prices and everything else I could find.
>
> 


0
raybosley (11)
5/11/2006 10:41:50 AM
Have you deleted the symbols (for investments that you don't actually own 
since the 401k plan really is offering a derivative) from the investments in 
question?

"Ray" <raybosley@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:Owl7BeOdGHA.3632@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> I've been trying to delete all the prices tagged Online one-by-one as 
> these are the prices that don't match the 401K quoted prices.  I've been 
> leaving in the ones with Buy or Update as I have added those myself and 
> their prices match correctly.
>
> The Online prices I delete just seem to keep coming back.  Its not a huge 
> deal, just slightly annoying. 


0
5/11/2006 11:48:02 AM
True, I suppose I could track these without a symbol, but Money still seems 
to pull good information on the Mutual Fund Characteristics for Portfolio 
Analysis.

I'm just dealing with it for now as I have learned to turn off Auto-Updates 
for any new funds right away.  Its just the initial group that retains some 
On-Line Pricing.

Thanks again,

Ray

"Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko@mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in 
message news:%239a1JEPdGHA.3908@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Have you deleted the symbols (for investments that you don't actually own 
> since the 401k plan really is offering a derivative) from the investments 
> in question?
>
> "Ray" <raybosley@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:Owl7BeOdGHA.3632@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> I've been trying to delete all the prices tagged Online one-by-one as 
>> these are the prices that don't match the 401K quoted prices.  I've been 
>> leaving in the ones with Buy or Update as I have added those myself and 
>> their prices match correctly.
>>
>> The Online prices I delete just seem to keep coming back.  Its not a huge 
>> deal, just slightly annoying.
>
> 


0
raybosley (11)
5/15/2006 11:23:56 AM
If you want the data correct for these private funds, your only choice over 
the long haul is to remove the symbol. If you want, add the underlying 
public fund to your watch account with its symbol. (You end up with two 
Investments defined: "My 401k's XXXXX fund" with no symbol and lots of 
holdings and "XXXXX fund" in the watch account with a symbol and news and so 
on but no holdings.)

I know this doesn't solve everything, but these private funds leave little 
other choice. Were I designing the product, I'd allow an Investment to be 
derived from another for purposes of news and, especially, performance 
comparisons to the underlying investment and so forth. But I guess nobody at 
Microsoft has ever been in a 401k (most of them) that work this way. If it's 
any consolation, a Portfolio at Morningstar has the same limitation.

"Ray" <raybosley@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:ecQzPIBeGHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> True, I suppose I could track these without a symbol, but Money still 
> seems to pull good information on the Mutual Fund Characteristics for 
> Portfolio Analysis.
>
> I'm just dealing with it for now as I have learned to turn off 
> Auto-Updates for any new funds right away.  Its just the initial group 
> that retains some On-Line Pricing. 


0
5/15/2006 12:41:59 PM
You're right that the program doesn't really leave you much choice.  I've 
looked at these funds further and some of them have up to seven or eight 
"equivalents" probably for different institutional classes.  I'm going to 
let it ride and do my manual price updates for now (like I have a choice). 
Luckily the 401K on-line site posts the daily price updates so I do have 
access to the prices and don't have to wait for a statement.

Thanks for the info and the advice.

Ray

"Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko@mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in 
message news:exITz0BeGHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> If you want the data correct for these private funds, your only choice 
> over the long haul is to remove the symbol. If you want, add the 
> underlying public fund to your watch account with its symbol. (You end up 
> with two Investments defined: "My 401k's XXXXX fund" with no symbol and 
> lots of holdings and "XXXXX fund" in the watch account with a symbol and 
> news and so on but no holdings.)
>
> I know this doesn't solve everything, but these private funds leave little 
> other choice. Were I designing the product, I'd allow an Investment to be 
> derived from another for purposes of news and, especially, performance 
> comparisons to the underlying investment and so forth. But I guess nobody 
> at Microsoft has ever been in a 401k (most of them) that work this way. If 
> it's any consolation, a Portfolio at Morningstar has the same limitation.
>
> "Ray" <raybosley@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:ecQzPIBeGHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> True, I suppose I could track these without a symbol, but Money still 
>> seems to pull good information on the Mutual Fund Characteristics for 
>> Portfolio Analysis.
>>
>> I'm just dealing with it for now as I have learned to turn off 
>> Auto-Updates for any new funds right away.  Its just the initial group 
>> that retains some On-Line Pricing.
>
> 


0
raybosley (11)
5/16/2006 11:16:55 AM
For some plans, even those institutional classes of the fund aren't exact 
because the 401k "fund" holds one of those plus some cash for liquidity less 
some "administrative expenses".

"Ray" <raybosley@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:eirO%23oNeGHA.3888@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> You're right that the program doesn't really leave you much choice.  I've 
> looked at these funds further and some of them have up to seven or eight 
> "equivalents" probably for different institutional classes. 


0
5/16/2006 12:07:52 PM
"Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko@mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in 
message news:uOQEXGOeGHA.5040@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> plus some cash for liquidity less some "administrative expenses".

In other industries that's called 'skim'.
-- 
Chris Cowles
Gainesville, FL



0
spam_magnet (1210)
5/17/2006 3:47:27 AM
I think there's more of that in the 401k business than could really stand 
the light of day. Think of a 0.0001% handle on the trillions held in 401k 
plans. It's too big a number for even honest folk to resist.

"Chris Cowles" <spam_magnet@remove-me-bellsouth.net> wrote in message 
news:%23bGhhSWeGHA.3792@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> "Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko@mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in 
> message news:uOQEXGOeGHA.5040@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> plus some cash for liquidity less some "administrative expenses".
>
> In other industries that's called 'skim'. 


0
5/17/2006 12:26:03 PM
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