Space above/below table

I'm working on a template in Word 2004 (to be used on Mac and Windows from
2003 - 2008) and tables are winning right now.

When I insert a table, it using the Table Grid table style and has no space
above and below. If I edit the table style Table Grid and choose to modify
the Table Properties, the first time I edit the style it will apply the
settings I enter in Distance from surrounding text or Vertical Position.
However, if I apply the style and then edit it again to tweak the distance,
it ignores it and doesn't change anything.

Even when I save the style with the correct distance, the next time I insert
a table it doesn't have the changes I have saved although it shows that it
is style Table Grid.

How do I make Word consistently enter a table with the vertical space I
want?

Thanks!

0
Andrea
11/11/2009 6:18:43 PM
mac.office.word 1676 articles. 1 followers. Follow

4 Replies
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Hi Andrea:

The short answer is "You can't".

The design of Table Styles is quite strange: I have little idea how they
were supposed to be used, and I have yet to find a useful purpose for them.
It would appear that they simply don't implement the things you would
logically associate with table styles.

There is, for example, no way to space the table from the surrounding text,
which is the most basic requirement of table placement :-)

The property you are speaking of, the Distance from Surrounding Text, works
only if the text is allowed to flow around the table.

If the table is inline, or if the table is too wide to permit text to flow
down the side, the property doesn't seem to do anything useful.

Sorry...

On 12/11/09 5:18 AM, in article C7205C23.C86D%areece@reddwerks.com, "Andrea
Reece" <areece@reddwerks.com> wrote:

> I'm working on a template in Word 2004 (to be used on Mac and Windows from
> 2003 - 2008) and tables are winning right now.
> 
> When I insert a table, it using the Table Grid table style and has no space
> above and below. If I edit the table style Table Grid and choose to modify
> the Table Properties, the first time I edit the style it will apply the
> settings I enter in Distance from surrounding text or Vertical Position.
> However, if I apply the style and then edit it again to tweak the distance,
> it ignores it and doesn't change anything.
> 
> Even when I save the style with the correct distance, the next time I insert
> a table it doesn't have the changes I have saved although it shows that it
> is style Table Grid.
> 
> How do I make Word consistently enter a table with the vertical space I
> want?
> 
> Thanks!
> 


 -- 

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:john@mcghie.name


0
John
11/12/2009 12:51:07 PM
I accidentally emailed the response below just to John. After he politely
chastised me for not posting to the newsgroup, he let me know that Building
Blocks won't work in all Word versions.
__ 

Thanks for responding John,

Even though there was no wrapping text, I had set it saying there was a text
flow around just so I could use the Distance from Surrounding Text. And it
works great immediately after I update the table style that way. But as soon
as I apply the style to another table, or even to that same table again,
those settings are gone.
 
I've been meaning to test to see if I save the style to the template if that
makes any difference. A coworker is also looking into whether we can use the
building blocks in Word 2008 (or 2009, whatever Windows has) to create a
table with the setting we want and be able to use that on Word 2003.
 
Like many, I have a love hate relationship with Word. But I still find it
hard to believe that something as fundamental as table placement is treated
so shabbily.
 
Thanks again for your help.
 
Andrea  
 


On 11/12/09 6:51 AM, in article C7224FEB.3F4B%john@mcghie.name, "John
McGhie" <john@mcghie.name> wrote:

> Hi Andrea:
> 
> The short answer is "You can't".
> 
> The design of Table Styles is quite strange: I have little idea how they
> were supposed to be used, and I have yet to find a useful purpose for them.
> It would appear that they simply don't implement the things you would
> logically associate with table styles.
> 
> There is, for example, no way to space the table from the surrounding text,
> which is the most basic requirement of table placement :-)
> 
> The property you are speaking of, the Distance from Surrounding Text, works
> only if the text is allowed to flow around the table.
> 
> If the table is inline, or if the table is too wide to permit text to flow
> down the side, the property doesn't seem to do anything useful.
> 
> Sorry...
> 
> On 12/11/09 5:18 AM, in article C7205C23.C86D%areece@reddwerks.com, "Andrea
> Reece" <areece@reddwerks.com> wrote:
> 
>> I'm working on a template in Word 2004 (to be used on Mac and Windows from
>> 2003 - 2008) and tables are winning right now.
>> 
>> When I insert a table, it using the Table Grid table style and has no space
>> above and below. If I edit the table style Table Grid and choose to modify
>> the Table Properties, the first time I edit the style it will apply the
>> settings I enter in Distance from surrounding text or Vertical Position.
>> However, if I apply the style and then edit it again to tweak the distance,
>> it ignores it and doesn't change anything.
>> 
>> Even when I save the style with the correct distance, the next time I insert
>> a table it doesn't have the changes I have saved although it shows that it
>> is style Table Grid.
>> 
>> How do I make Word consistently enter a table with the vertical space I
>> want?
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
> 
> 
>  -- 
> 
> This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
> matters unless you intend to pay!
> 
> John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
> McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
> Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
> +61 4 1209 1410, mailto:john@mcghie.name
> 
> 

0
Andrea
11/12/2009 11:09:47 PM
Hello Andrea,

Some of the ideas on inserting tables pre-designed by the user (I completely
avoid Table Grid style, for example, because of the shortcomings) please see
pages 124 to 126 of some notes about the way I use Word for the Mac, titled
"Bend Word to Your Will", which are available as a free download from the
Word MVPs' website (http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html).

[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries.  If you decide to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]

Cheers,

Clive Huggan 
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the Americas and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
====================================================


On 13/11/09 10:09 AM, in article C721F1DB.D249%areece@reddwerks.com, "Andrea
Reece" <areece@reddwerks.com> wrote:

> I accidentally emailed the response below just to John. After he politely
> chastised me for not posting to the newsgroup, he let me know that Building
> Blocks won't work in all Word versions.
> __ 
> 
> Thanks for responding John,
> 
> Even though there was no wrapping text, I had set it saying there was a text
> flow around just so I could use the Distance from Surrounding Text. And it
> works great immediately after I update the table style that way. But as soon
> as I apply the style to another table, or even to that same table again,
> those settings are gone.
>  
> I've been meaning to test to see if I save the style to the template if that
> makes any difference. A coworker is also looking into whether we can use the
> building blocks in Word 2008 (or 2009, whatever Windows has) to create a
> table with the setting we want and be able to use that on Word 2003.
>  
> Like many, I have a love hate relationship with Word. But I still find it
> hard to believe that something as fundamental as table placement is treated
> so shabbily.
>  
> Thanks again for your help.
>  
> Andrea  
>  
> 
> 
> On 11/12/09 6:51 AM, in article C7224FEB.3F4B%john@mcghie.name, "John
> McGhie" <john@mcghie.name> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Andrea:
>> 
>> The short answer is "You can't".
>> 
>> The design of Table Styles is quite strange: I have little idea how they
>> were supposed to be used, and I have yet to find a useful purpose for them.
>> It would appear that they simply don't implement the things you would
>> logically associate with table styles.
>> 
>> There is, for example, no way to space the table from the surrounding text,
>> which is the most basic requirement of table placement :-)
>> 
>> The property you are speaking of, the Distance from Surrounding Text, works
>> only if the text is allowed to flow around the table.
>> 
>> If the table is inline, or if the table is too wide to permit text to flow
>> down the side, the property doesn't seem to do anything useful.
>> 
>> Sorry...
>> 
>> On 12/11/09 5:18 AM, in article C7205C23.C86D%areece@reddwerks.com, "Andrea
>> Reece" <areece@reddwerks.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm working on a template in Word 2004 (to be used on Mac and Windows from
>>> 2003 - 2008) and tables are winning right now.
>>> 
>>> When I insert a table, it using the Table Grid table style and has no space
>>> above and below. If I edit the table style Table Grid and choose to modify
>>> the Table Properties, the first time I edit the style it will apply the
>>> settings I enter in Distance from surrounding text or Vertical Position.
>>> However, if I apply the style and then edit it again to tweak the distance,
>>> it ignores it and doesn't change anything.
>>> 
>>> Even when I save the style with the correct distance, the next time I insert
>>> a table it doesn't have the changes I have saved although it shows that it
>>> is style Table Grid.
>>> 
>>> How do I make Word consistently enter a table with the vertical space I
>>> want?
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  -- 
>> 
>> This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
>> matters unless you intend to pay!
>> 
>> John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
>> McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
>> Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
>> +61 4 1209 1410, mailto:john@mcghie.name
>> 
>> 
> 


0
Clive
11/13/2009 9:48:08 AM
Hi Andrea:

No problems.  I suspect that you actually DID reply in here, but the machine
copied your reply to  my business email.

Sorry, but I can't get table styles to work properly either.

I will put in a bug on it.

Cheers


On 13/11/09 10:09 AM, in article C721F1DB.D249%areece@reddwerks.com, "Andrea
Reece" <areece@reddwerks.com> wrote:

> I accidentally emailed the response below just to John. After he politely
> chastised me for not posting to the newsgroup, he let me know that Building
> Blocks won't work in all Word versions.
> __ 
> 
> Thanks for responding John,
> 
> Even though there was no wrapping text, I had set it saying there was a text
> flow around just so I could use the Distance from Surrounding Text. And it
> works great immediately after I update the table style that way. But as soon
> as I apply the style to another table, or even to that same table again,
> those settings are gone.
>  
> I've been meaning to test to see if I save the style to the template if that
> makes any difference. A coworker is also looking into whether we can use the
> building blocks in Word 2008 (or 2009, whatever Windows has) to create a
> table with the setting we want and be able to use that on Word 2003.
>  
> Like many, I have a love hate relationship with Word. But I still find it
> hard to believe that something as fundamental as table placement is treated
> so shabbily.
>  
> Thanks again for your help.
>  
> Andrea  
>  
> 
> 
> On 11/12/09 6:51 AM, in article C7224FEB.3F4B%john@mcghie.name, "John
> McGhie" <john@mcghie.name> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Andrea:
>> 
>> The short answer is "You can't".
>> 
>> The design of Table Styles is quite strange: I have little idea how they
>> were supposed to be used, and I have yet to find a useful purpose for them.
>> It would appear that they simply don't implement the things you would
>> logically associate with table styles.
>> 
>> There is, for example, no way to space the table from the surrounding text,
>> which is the most basic requirement of table placement :-)
>> 
>> The property you are speaking of, the Distance from Surrounding Text, works
>> only if the text is allowed to flow around the table.
>> 
>> If the table is inline, or if the table is too wide to permit text to flow
>> down the side, the property doesn't seem to do anything useful.
>> 
>> Sorry...
>> 
>> On 12/11/09 5:18 AM, in article C7205C23.C86D%areece@reddwerks.com, "Andrea
>> Reece" <areece@reddwerks.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm working on a template in Word 2004 (to be used on Mac and Windows from
>>> 2003 - 2008) and tables are winning right now.
>>> 
>>> When I insert a table, it using the Table Grid table style and has no space
>>> above and below. If I edit the table style Table Grid and choose to modify
>>> the Table Properties, the first time I edit the style it will apply the
>>> settings I enter in Distance from surrounding text or Vertical Position.
>>> However, if I apply the style and then edit it again to tweak the distance,
>>> it ignores it and doesn't change anything.
>>> 
>>> Even when I save the style with the correct distance, the next time I insert
>>> a table it doesn't have the changes I have saved although it shows that it
>>> is style Table Grid.
>>> 
>>> How do I make Word consistently enter a table with the vertical space I
>>> want?
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  -- 
>> 
>> This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
>> matters unless you intend to pay!
>> 
>> John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
>> McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
>> Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
>> +61 4 1209 1410, mailto:john@mcghie.name
>> 
>> 
> 


 -- 

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:john@mcghie.name


0
John
11/14/2009 3:21:47 AM
Reply:

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