do people need to be out of GP for the backup

Hello:

I was surprised to find out just now that, unlike with making a manual 
backup of a SQL company database, you cannot use the GP 9.0 File...Backup 
utility to backup a company if users are in that company.  (SQL manual 
backups DO let you make such backups, even if people are in the company.)

Now, let's say that you want to take advantage of the Schedule feature of 
the GP backup window.  Moreover, let's say that users are still logged into 
GP while the scheduled backup is running.  A "regular" SQL database backup 
plan will allow a backup to be performed even if users are in GP.  But, will 
GP's backup utility "bomb" if users are in GP.

Thanks!

childofthe1980s
0
5/25/2007 9:01:01 PM
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Why bother? 

Set up an applicable maintenance/backup plan in SQL Server and just go
that way. Most of my clients use a full backup, done nightly, along
with hourly log file backups so that they will never lose more than an
hour's work if there is an issue.

I suppose that you could set up a backup in GP, just as you set out,
and actually test it to see what happens.

-- 
Lyle U


childofthe1980s wrote:

> Hello:
> 
> I was surprised to find out just now that, unlike with making a
> manual backup of a SQL company database, you cannot use the GP 9.0
> File...Backup utility to backup a company if users are in that
> company.  (SQL manual backups DO let you make such backups, even if
> people are in the company.)
> 
> Now, let's say that you want to take advantage of the Schedule
> feature of the GP backup window.  Moreover, let's say that users are
> still logged into GP while the scheduled backup is running.  A
> "regular" SQL database backup plan will allow a backup to be
> performed even if users are in GP.  But, will GP's backup utility
> "bomb" if users are in GP.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> childofthe1980s
0
lyleu (305)
5/25/2007 10:19:17 PM
It is not a good idea to backup the database while users are in it.

We recommend backing up the database once per day when the users are out of
the system.  You should backup the transaction logs a few times per day.

SQL Server maintenance plans allow you to schedule backups.  We normally
configure as follows:

Nightly database backup around 11:00 p.m. or 2: a.m.

Daily transaction log backups every four hours between 8:00 a.m. and 9: p.m.

We store the backups on a separate hard drive.  If we need to restore data
we can restore the previous night's database backup.  We can then restore
the transaction log backups.

With SQL's point in time restore, you can restore the data to the position
it was at any time of the day.

Once I did a backup when users were in the system.  When I restored it into
a test environment, invoices were incomplete.  They were at the state that
they were when the backup took place.  It was messy.

"childofthe1980s" <childofthe1980s@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:1624BF28-B355-4888-992D-FA3C16E542AD@microsoft.com...
> Hello:
>
> I was surprised to find out just now that, unlike with making a manual
> backup of a SQL company database, you cannot use the GP 9.0 File...Backup
> utility to backup a company if users are in that company.  (SQL manual
> backups DO let you make such backups, even if people are in the company.)
>
> Now, let's say that you want to take advantage of the Schedule feature of
> the GP backup window.  Moreover, let's say that users are still logged
into
> GP while the scheduled backup is running.  A "regular" SQL database backup
> plan will allow a backup to be performed even if users are in GP.  But,
will
> GP's backup utility "bomb" if users are in GP.
>
> Thanks!
>
> childofthe1980s


0
news_jamrock (304)
5/26/2007 11:46:35 AM
Ummm.....no offense to you or Lyle U, but I already knew all of what you told 
me and you guys really didn't answer my question.

First of all, we are also doing SQL Server Maintenace Plan backups.  I don't 
have time to go into a long explanation as to why we also need to do GP 
backups.

Secondly, I'm not interested in the ramifications of someone "purposely" 
being in the system while a backup is running.  I AM interested in whether 
the GP backup will work if someone is "accidentally" logged into the system.  
For instance, some "ditzy" end user out there may forget to log off when they 
leave at 5PM to have a life unlike us people in the tech world.

I don't mean any offense, again.  But, I'm disappointed that the essence of 
my question was missed here on the board.

childofthe1980s

"Jamrock" wrote:

> It is not a good idea to backup the database while users are in it.
> 
> We recommend backing up the database once per day when the users are out of
> the system.  You should backup the transaction logs a few times per day.
> 
> SQL Server maintenance plans allow you to schedule backups.  We normally
> configure as follows:
> 
> Nightly database backup around 11:00 p.m. or 2: a.m.
> 
> Daily transaction log backups every four hours between 8:00 a.m. and 9: p.m.
> 
> We store the backups on a separate hard drive.  If we need to restore data
> we can restore the previous night's database backup.  We can then restore
> the transaction log backups.
> 
> With SQL's point in time restore, you can restore the data to the position
> it was at any time of the day.
> 
> Once I did a backup when users were in the system.  When I restored it into
> a test environment, invoices were incomplete.  They were at the state that
> they were when the backup took place.  It was messy.
> 
> "childofthe1980s" <childofthe1980s@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> message news:1624BF28-B355-4888-992D-FA3C16E542AD@microsoft.com...
> > Hello:
> >
> > I was surprised to find out just now that, unlike with making a manual
> > backup of a SQL company database, you cannot use the GP 9.0 File...Backup
> > utility to backup a company if users are in that company.  (SQL manual
> > backups DO let you make such backups, even if people are in the company.)
> >
> > Now, let's say that you want to take advantage of the Schedule feature of
> > the GP backup window.  Moreover, let's say that users are still logged
> into
> > GP while the scheduled backup is running.  A "regular" SQL database backup
> > plan will allow a backup to be performed even if users are in GP.  But,
> will
> > GP's backup utility "bomb" if users are in GP.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > childofthe1980s
> 
> 
> 
0
5/26/2007 2:27:00 PM
We all have moments when others don't get what we are trying to say.  At 
such times, I try again. (and again if it is worth it)

What was the purpose of your post?  I still don't get it.
Did you want to post a suggestion for a GP enhancement (that backups ignore 
users who are logged) ?
Or did you want to start a discussion on different ways to backup?

HS


-- 
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Featuring FAQs, File Exchange and more
Current member count: 40
--------------------------------------------
Share your knowledge.  Add your favorite questions and answers
Help add questions to this site!  We want Your input.
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"childofthe1980s" <childofthe1980s@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in 
message news:D7A9944B-1D80-4DFD-A06D-50F4DAEC68C4@microsoft.com...

>   But, I'm disappointed that the essence of  my question was missed here 
> on the board. 


0
HSalim (1270)
5/26/2007 3:35:49 PM
Or did you just miss the point of my post which was to set up a test on
your own where you can control and test all of your variables?

-- 
Lyle U


HSalim[MVP] wrote:

> 
> We all have moments when others don't get what we are trying to say.
> At such times, I try again. (and again if it is worth it)
> 
> What was the purpose of your post?  I still don't get it.
> Did you want to post a suggestion for a GP enhancement (that backups
> ignore users who are logged) ?  Or did you want to start a discussion
> on different ways to backup?
> 
> HS
0
lyleu (305)
5/27/2007 12:36:22 AM
Fortunately, this is one of those situations where you don't have to ask 
other people. All you have to do is try it on your own. 
-- 
Charles Allen, MVP



"childofthe1980s" wrote:

> Ummm.....no offense to you or Lyle U, but I already knew all of what you told 
> me and you guys really didn't answer my question.
> 
> First of all, we are also doing SQL Server Maintenace Plan backups.  I don't 
> have time to go into a long explanation as to why we also need to do GP 
> backups.
> 
> Secondly, I'm not interested in the ramifications of someone "purposely" 
> being in the system while a backup is running.  I AM interested in whether 
> the GP backup will work if someone is "accidentally" logged into the system.  
> For instance, some "ditzy" end user out there may forget to log off when they 
> leave at 5PM to have a life unlike us people in the tech world.
> 
> I don't mean any offense, again.  But, I'm disappointed that the essence of 
> my question was missed here on the board.
> 
> childofthe1980s
> 
> "Jamrock" wrote:
> 
> > It is not a good idea to backup the database while users are in it.
> > 
> > We recommend backing up the database once per day when the users are out of
> > the system.  You should backup the transaction logs a few times per day.
> > 
> > SQL Server maintenance plans allow you to schedule backups.  We normally
> > configure as follows:
> > 
> > Nightly database backup around 11:00 p.m. or 2: a.m.
> > 
> > Daily transaction log backups every four hours between 8:00 a.m. and 9: p.m.
> > 
> > We store the backups on a separate hard drive.  If we need to restore data
> > we can restore the previous night's database backup.  We can then restore
> > the transaction log backups.
> > 
> > With SQL's point in time restore, you can restore the data to the position
> > it was at any time of the day.
> > 
> > Once I did a backup when users were in the system.  When I restored it into
> > a test environment, invoices were incomplete.  They were at the state that
> > they were when the backup took place.  It was messy.
> > 
> > "childofthe1980s" <childofthe1980s@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> > message news:1624BF28-B355-4888-992D-FA3C16E542AD@microsoft.com...
> > > Hello:
> > >
> > > I was surprised to find out just now that, unlike with making a manual
> > > backup of a SQL company database, you cannot use the GP 9.0 File...Backup
> > > utility to backup a company if users are in that company.  (SQL manual
> > > backups DO let you make such backups, even if people are in the company.)
> > >
> > > Now, let's say that you want to take advantage of the Schedule feature of
> > > the GP backup window.  Moreover, let's say that users are still logged
> > into
> > > GP while the scheduled backup is running.  A "regular" SQL database backup
> > > plan will allow a backup to be performed even if users are in GP.  But,
> > will
> > > GP's backup utility "bomb" if users are in GP.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > childofthe1980s
> > 
> > 
> > 
0
callen (2505)
5/27/2007 3:29:00 AM
Yes, I believe it will.  

The GP scheduled backup was in my humble opinion a feature of popular 
demand.  There are many things we can do in SQL that the GP tool won't allow. 
 I think they are trying to protect the inexperienced, which isn't a bad 
thing considering what our users will try just to 'see if it works'.

LV

"childofthe1980s" wrote:

> Hello:
> 
> I was surprised to find out just now that, unlike with making a manual 
> backup of a SQL company database, you cannot use the GP 9.0 File...Backup 
> utility to backup a company if users are in that company.  (SQL manual 
> backups DO let you make such backups, even if people are in the company.)
> 
> Now, let's say that you want to take advantage of the Schedule feature of 
> the GP backup window.  Moreover, let's say that users are still logged into 
> GP while the scheduled backup is running.  A "regular" SQL database backup 
> plan will allow a backup to be performed even if users are in GP.  But, will 
> GP's backup utility "bomb" if users are in GP.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> childofthe1980s
0
LeslieVail (702)
5/27/2007 8:32:00 PM
Reply:

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