Still looking for answers to Junk E-mail in Outlook 2003

I originally posted this on May 13 and haven't gotten an answer.  Any help 
is appreciated.

Greetings all,

Background:  Exchange 2003 w/SP1, Symantec Mail Security 4.6, and IMF.

Symantec is set for Heuristic Spam scanning only....no RBL and no Premium
Anti Spam.  It's set to prevent delivery of messages if SCL >7

IMF is set to Block message with SCL >=9 and when blocking messages "No
Action".  Store Junk E-mail Configuration is set to 9 (I can't say turn
off).

Group Policy for Outlook is User Configuration\Administrative
Templates\Microsoft Office Outlook 2003\Tools|Options\Preferences\Junk
E-mail\Junk E-mail protection level is Enabled with "No Protection."


Now my question is:  Why the hell does mail STILL get delivered to the junk
email folder?  I want everything, once it reaches the Outlook 2003 client,
to go to the inbox.

Please help.

Greg


0
replyto1 (32)
5/18/2005 3:46:48 PM
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Have you verified that none of the clients have any rules in place to move 
messages to the Junk mail folder?

Have you verified that none of the clients have entries in their Blocked 
Senders list?  Even if the Junk mail settings are set to "No automatic 
Filtering", messages from blocked senders will still be moved to the Junk 
mail folder.

-- 
Ben Winzenz
Exchange MVP
MessageOne


"Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
news:uJBQTD8WFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>I originally posted this on May 13 and haven't gotten an answer.  Any help 
>is appreciated.
>
> Greetings all,
>
> Background:  Exchange 2003 w/SP1, Symantec Mail Security 4.6, and IMF.
>
> Symantec is set for Heuristic Spam scanning only....no RBL and no Premium
> Anti Spam.  It's set to prevent delivery of messages if SCL >7
>
> IMF is set to Block message with SCL >=9 and when blocking messages "No
> Action".  Store Junk E-mail Configuration is set to 9 (I can't say turn
> off).
>
> Group Policy for Outlook is User Configuration\Administrative
> Templates\Microsoft Office Outlook 2003\Tools|Options\Preferences\Junk
> E-mail\Junk E-mail protection level is Enabled with "No Protection."
>
>
> Now my question is:  Why the hell does mail STILL get delivered to the 
> junk
> email folder?  I want everything, once it reaches the Outlook 2003 client,
> to go to the inbox.
>
> Please help.
>
> Greg
>
> 


0
Ben
5/18/2005 3:58:33 PM
Here's something to think about Greg. Why would you have two different SCL 
rating for both SMSMSE and IMF? Also I think your SCL ratings in IMF are set 
to high. I have mine set to 5 and also my Store Junk Email Configuration is 
set to 5. I can view my messages being blocked by IMF through the IMF 
Companion and I get an average of over 150 UCE's getting blocked everyday. 
Legitimate emails getting blocked are few and far between if none at all. I 
think Junk Email is still going to your clients Junk Email box because your 
SCL ratings are set too high. To get a gauge on what emails with what SCL 
ratings are getting blocked or delivered you should set up a counter using 
Perfmon. View the reports and you can lower your SCL ratings accordingly.
On another note. I used to use both SMSMSE 4.5 and IMF simultaneuosly and 
did not like the results I was gettings. So I got rid of SMSMSE for 
filtering and SPAM and just started using IMF alone. Let me tell you that I 
am probably 99.99999% SPAM free. Legitimate emails getting blocked are not 
an issue with me either. All I am using is SCL ratings set to 5 and using 
some really good RBL's. that's it. A major improvement as far as blocking 
SPAM. think about it.


"Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
news:uJBQTD8WFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>I originally posted this on May 13 and haven't gotten an answer.  Any help 
>is appreciated.
>
> Greetings all,
>
> Background:  Exchange 2003 w/SP1, Symantec Mail Security 4.6, and IMF.
>
> Symantec is set for Heuristic Spam scanning only....no RBL and no Premium
> Anti Spam.  It's set to prevent delivery of messages if SCL >7
>
> IMF is set to Block message with SCL >=9 and when blocking messages "No
> Action".  Store Junk E-mail Configuration is set to 9 (I can't say turn
> off).
>
> Group Policy for Outlook is User Configuration\Administrative
> Templates\Microsoft Office Outlook 2003\Tools|Options\Preferences\Junk
> E-mail\Junk E-mail protection level is Enabled with "No Protection."
>
>
> Now my question is:  Why the hell does mail STILL get delivered to the 
> junk
> email folder?  I want everything, once it reaches the Outlook 2003 client,
> to go to the inbox.
>
> Please help.
>
> Greg
>
> 


0
allen2494 (55)
5/18/2005 4:15:28 PM
None of the clients have entries in their "Blocked Senders" list and there 
are no rules to move anything to junk email.

Thanks,
Greg

"Ben Winzenz [Exchange MVP]" <ben_winzenz@NOSPAMdotmessageonedotcom> wrote 
in message news:%23A1OzJ8WFHA.3176@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Have you verified that none of the clients have any rules in place to move 
> messages to the Junk mail folder?
>
> Have you verified that none of the clients have entries in their Blocked 
> Senders list?  Even if the Junk mail settings are set to "No automatic
> Filtering", messages from blocked senders will still be moved to the Junk 
> mail folder.
>
> -- 
> Ben Winzenz
> Exchange MVP
> MessageOne
>
>
> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
> news:uJBQTD8WFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>I originally posted this on May 13 and haven't gotten an answer.  Any help 
>>is appreciated.
>>
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> Background:  Exchange 2003 w/SP1, Symantec Mail Security 4.6, and IMF.
>>
>> Symantec is set for Heuristic Spam scanning only....no RBL and no Premium
>> Anti Spam.  It's set to prevent delivery of messages if SCL >7
>>
>> IMF is set to Block message with SCL >=9 and when blocking messages "No
>> Action".  Store Junk E-mail Configuration is set to 9 (I can't say turn
>> off).
>>
>> Group Policy for Outlook is User Configuration\Administrative
>> Templates\Microsoft Office Outlook 2003\Tools|Options\Preferences\Junk
>> E-mail\Junk E-mail protection level is Enabled with "No Protection."
>>
>>
>> Now my question is:  Why the hell does mail STILL get delivered to the 
>> junk
>> email folder?  I want everything, once it reaches the Outlook 2003 
>> client,
>> to go to the inbox.
>>
>> Please help.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>
> 


0
replyto1 (32)
5/18/2005 4:48:19 PM
The whole reason that my SCL is set high in IMF is because I want the Junk 
email folder to not work.  I don't want anything to be delivered there. 
Symantec is set to catch anything with an SCL of 8 or higher and refuse it. 
At the SMTP server (which is before my Exchange server), messages are being 
filtered prior to making it to us.

Greg

"AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
news:usJetS8WFHA.3584@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Here's something to think about Greg. Why would you have two different SCL 
> rating for both SMSMSE and IMF? Also I think your SCL ratings in IMF are 
> set to high. I have mine set to 5 and also my Store Junk Email 
> Configuration is set to 5. I can view my messages being blocked by IMF 
> through the IMF Companion and I get an average of over 150 UCE's getting 
> blocked everyday. Legitimate emails getting blocked are few and far 
> between if none at all. I think Junk Email is still going to your clients 
> Junk Email box because your SCL ratings are set too high. To get a gauge 
> on what emails with what SCL ratings are getting blocked or delivered you 
> should set up a counter using Perfmon. View the reports and you can lower 
> your SCL ratings accordingly.
> On another note. I used to use both SMSMSE 4.5 and IMF simultaneuosly and 
> did not like the results I was gettings. So I got rid of SMSMSE for 
> filtering and SPAM and just started using IMF alone. Let me tell you that 
> I am probably 99.99999% SPAM free. Legitimate emails getting blocked are 
> not an issue with me either. All I am using is SCL ratings set to 5 and 
> using some really good RBL's. that's it. A major improvement as far as 
> blocking SPAM. think about it.
>
>
> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
> news:uJBQTD8WFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>I originally posted this on May 13 and haven't gotten an answer.  Any help 
>>is appreciated.
>>
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> Background:  Exchange 2003 w/SP1, Symantec Mail Security 4.6, and IMF.
>>
>> Symantec is set for Heuristic Spam scanning only....no RBL and no Premium
>> Anti Spam.  It's set to prevent delivery of messages if SCL >7
>>
>> IMF is set to Block message with SCL >=9 and when blocking messages "No
>> Action".  Store Junk E-mail Configuration is set to 9 (I can't say turn
>> off).
>>
>> Group Policy for Outlook is User Configuration\Administrative
>> Templates\Microsoft Office Outlook 2003\Tools|Options\Preferences\Junk
>> E-mail\Junk E-mail protection level is Enabled with "No Protection."
>>
>>
>> Now my question is:  Why the hell does mail STILL get delivered to the 
>> junk
>> email folder?  I want everything, once it reaches the Outlook 2003 
>> client,
>> to go to the inbox.
>>
>> Please help.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>
> 


0
replyto1 (32)
5/18/2005 4:51:55 PM
Well obviuosly the way you have it set up is not working. Why not just play 
around with it and lower your SCL ratings and view the results. Use Perfmon 
to view all emails and what there SCL ratings are and you can gauge it from 
there. You'll be surprised at what you see. Good luck.


"Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
news:Ol9Fsn8WFHA.2540@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> The whole reason that my SCL is set high in IMF is because I want the Junk 
> email folder to not work.  I don't want anything to be delivered there. 
> Symantec is set to catch anything with an SCL of 8 or higher and refuse 
> it. At the SMTP server (which is before my Exchange server), messages are 
> being filtered prior to making it to us.
>
> Greg
>
> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
> news:usJetS8WFHA.3584@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>> Here's something to think about Greg. Why would you have two different 
>> SCL rating for both SMSMSE and IMF? Also I think your SCL ratings in IMF 
>> are set to high. I have mine set to 5 and also my Store Junk Email 
>> Configuration is set to 5. I can view my messages being blocked by IMF 
>> through the IMF Companion and I get an average of over 150 UCE's getting 
>> blocked everyday. Legitimate emails getting blocked are few and far 
>> between if none at all. I think Junk Email is still going to your clients 
>> Junk Email box because your SCL ratings are set too high. To get a gauge 
>> on what emails with what SCL ratings are getting blocked or delivered you 
>> should set up a counter using Perfmon. View the reports and you can lower 
>> your SCL ratings accordingly.
>> On another note. I used to use both SMSMSE 4.5 and IMF simultaneuosly and 
>> did not like the results I was gettings. So I got rid of SMSMSE for 
>> filtering and SPAM and just started using IMF alone. Let me tell you that 
>> I am probably 99.99999% SPAM free. Legitimate emails getting blocked are 
>> not an issue with me either. All I am using is SCL ratings set to 5 and 
>> using some really good RBL's. that's it. A major improvement as far as 
>> blocking SPAM. think about it.
>>
>>
>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>> news:uJBQTD8WFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>I originally posted this on May 13 and haven't gotten an answer.  Any 
>>>help is appreciated.
>>>
>>> Greetings all,
>>>
>>> Background:  Exchange 2003 w/SP1, Symantec Mail Security 4.6, and IMF.
>>>
>>> Symantec is set for Heuristic Spam scanning only....no RBL and no 
>>> Premium
>>> Anti Spam.  It's set to prevent delivery of messages if SCL >7
>>>
>>> IMF is set to Block message with SCL >=9 and when blocking messages "No
>>> Action".  Store Junk E-mail Configuration is set to 9 (I can't say turn
>>> off).
>>>
>>> Group Policy for Outlook is User Configuration\Administrative
>>> Templates\Microsoft Office Outlook 2003\Tools|Options\Preferences\Junk
>>> E-mail\Junk E-mail protection level is Enabled with "No Protection."
>>>
>>>
>>> Now my question is:  Why the hell does mail STILL get delivered to the 
>>> junk
>>> email folder?  I want everything, once it reaches the Outlook 2003 
>>> client,
>>> to go to the inbox.
>>>
>>> Please help.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
allen2494 (55)
5/18/2005 5:01:03 PM
Does Symantec Mail Security require IMF in order to work?  Both IMF and MSE 
will work as a protocol-level event sink.  What it sounds like is the IMF 
event sink may have a higher priority than Symantec's, so it is firing 
first, and IMF is actually what is sending the messages to the Junk mail 
folder prior to the messages being acted on by Symantec - at least that's my 
guess given that there are no rules and no blocked senders.  I'd give 
Symantec a call and make sure that IMF is even needed for MSE to work 
properly.

You might try simply disabling IMF and see what happens.  If you go in ESM 
under Protocols, SMTP, you'll see IMF.  When you go to the properties, 
simply uncheck the box.  It's at least worth a shot, right?

-- 
Ben Winzenz
Exchange MVP
MessageOne


"Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
news:Ol9Fsn8WFHA.2540@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> The whole reason that my SCL is set high in IMF is because I want the Junk 
> email folder to not work.  I don't want anything to be delivered there. 
> Symantec is set to catch anything with an SCL of 8 or higher and refuse 
> it. At the SMTP server (which is before my Exchange server), messages are 
> being filtered prior to making it to us.
>
> Greg
>
> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
> news:usJetS8WFHA.3584@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>> Here's something to think about Greg. Why would you have two different 
>> SCL rating for both SMSMSE and IMF? Also I think your SCL ratings in IMF 
>> are set to high. I have mine set to 5 and also my Store Junk Email 
>> Configuration is set to 5. I can view my messages being blocked by IMF 
>> through the IMF Companion and I get an average of over 150 UCE's getting 
>> blocked everyday. Legitimate emails getting blocked are few and far 
>> between if none at all. I think Junk Email is still going to your clients 
>> Junk Email box because your SCL ratings are set too high. To get a gauge 
>> on what emails with what SCL ratings are getting blocked or delivered you 
>> should set up a counter using Perfmon. View the reports and you can lower 
>> your SCL ratings accordingly.
>> On another note. I used to use both SMSMSE 4.5 and IMF simultaneuosly and 
>> did not like the results I was gettings. So I got rid of SMSMSE for 
>> filtering and SPAM and just started using IMF alone. Let me tell you that 
>> I am probably 99.99999% SPAM free. Legitimate emails getting blocked are 
>> not an issue with me either. All I am using is SCL ratings set to 5 and 
>> using some really good RBL's. that's it. A major improvement as far as 
>> blocking SPAM. think about it.
>>
>>
>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>> news:uJBQTD8WFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>I originally posted this on May 13 and haven't gotten an answer.  Any 
>>>help is appreciated.
>>>
>>> Greetings all,
>>>
>>> Background:  Exchange 2003 w/SP1, Symantec Mail Security 4.6, and IMF.
>>>
>>> Symantec is set for Heuristic Spam scanning only....no RBL and no 
>>> Premium
>>> Anti Spam.  It's set to prevent delivery of messages if SCL >7
>>>
>>> IMF is set to Block message with SCL >=9 and when blocking messages "No
>>> Action".  Store Junk E-mail Configuration is set to 9 (I can't say turn
>>> off).
>>>
>>> Group Policy for Outlook is User Configuration\Administrative
>>> Templates\Microsoft Office Outlook 2003\Tools|Options\Preferences\Junk
>>> E-mail\Junk E-mail protection level is Enabled with "No Protection."
>>>
>>>
>>> Now my question is:  Why the hell does mail STILL get delivered to the 
>>> junk
>>> email folder?  I want everything, once it reaches the Outlook 2003 
>>> client,
>>> to go to the inbox.
>>>
>>> Please help.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
Ben
5/18/2005 5:16:21 PM
Good point Ben. If you read my earlier posts I once used them both. I 
thought I had read somewhere when setting up Heuristic setting for both 
SMSMSE and Exchange had to be identical. I would contact Symantec support 
and confirm this. However my issues are resolved completey by simply going 
to IMF alone. Works great and I don't see any need to have both SMSMSE and 
IMF running. I still use SMSMSE for my email protection though and that's 
about it.


"Ben Winzenz [Exchange MVP]" <ben_winzenz@NOSPAMdotmessageonedotcom> wrote 
in message news:uK0ER18WFHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Does Symantec Mail Security require IMF in order to work?  Both IMF and 
> MSE will work as a protocol-level event sink.  What it sounds like is the 
> IMF event sink may have a higher priority than Symantec's, so it is firing 
> first, and IMF is actually what is sending the messages to the Junk mail 
> folder prior to the messages being acted on by Symantec - at least that's 
> my guess given that there are no rules and no blocked senders.  I'd give 
> Symantec a call and make sure that IMF is even needed for MSE to work 
> properly.
>
> You might try simply disabling IMF and see what happens.  If you go in ESM 
> under Protocols, SMTP, you'll see IMF.  When you go to the properties, 
> simply uncheck the box.  It's at least worth a shot, right?
>
> -- 
> Ben Winzenz
> Exchange MVP
> MessageOne
>
>
> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
> news:Ol9Fsn8WFHA.2540@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> The whole reason that my SCL is set high in IMF is because I want the 
>> Junk email folder to not work.  I don't want anything to be delivered 
>> there. Symantec is set to catch anything with an SCL of 8 or higher and 
>> refuse it. At the SMTP server (which is before my Exchange server), 
>> messages are being filtered prior to making it to us.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
>> news:usJetS8WFHA.3584@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>>> Here's something to think about Greg. Why would you have two different 
>>> SCL rating for both SMSMSE and IMF? Also I think your SCL ratings in IMF 
>>> are set to high. I have mine set to 5 and also my Store Junk Email 
>>> Configuration is set to 5. I can view my messages being blocked by IMF 
>>> through the IMF Companion and I get an average of over 150 UCE's getting 
>>> blocked everyday. Legitimate emails getting blocked are few and far 
>>> between if none at all. I think Junk Email is still going to your 
>>> clients Junk Email box because your SCL ratings are set too high. To get 
>>> a gauge on what emails with what SCL ratings are getting blocked or 
>>> delivered you should set up a counter using Perfmon. View the reports 
>>> and you can lower your SCL ratings accordingly.
>>> On another note. I used to use both SMSMSE 4.5 and IMF simultaneuosly 
>>> and did not like the results I was gettings. So I got rid of SMSMSE for 
>>> filtering and SPAM and just started using IMF alone. Let me tell you 
>>> that I am probably 99.99999% SPAM free. Legitimate emails getting 
>>> blocked are not an issue with me either. All I am using is SCL ratings 
>>> set to 5 and using some really good RBL's. that's it. A major 
>>> improvement as far as blocking SPAM. think about it.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>> news:uJBQTD8WFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>>I originally posted this on May 13 and haven't gotten an answer.  Any 
>>>>help is appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Greetings all,
>>>>
>>>> Background:  Exchange 2003 w/SP1, Symantec Mail Security 4.6, and IMF.
>>>>
>>>> Symantec is set for Heuristic Spam scanning only....no RBL and no 
>>>> Premium
>>>> Anti Spam.  It's set to prevent delivery of messages if SCL >7
>>>>
>>>> IMF is set to Block message with SCL >=9 and when blocking messages "No
>>>> Action".  Store Junk E-mail Configuration is set to 9 (I can't say turn
>>>> off).
>>>>
>>>> Group Policy for Outlook is User Configuration\Administrative
>>>> Templates\Microsoft Office Outlook 2003\Tools|Options\Preferences\Junk
>>>> E-mail\Junk E-mail protection level is Enabled with "No Protection."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now my question is:  Why the hell does mail STILL get delivered to the 
>>>> junk
>>>> email folder?  I want everything, once it reaches the Outlook 2003 
>>>> client,
>>>> to go to the inbox.
>>>>
>>>> Please help.
>>>>
>>>> Greg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
allen2494 (55)
5/18/2005 5:26:58 PM
The problem existed prior to installing IMF.  I installed IMF in the hopes 
that I could disable Junk email filtering altogether.

Greg

"AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
news:u6vfq68WFHA.1040@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Good point Ben. If you read my earlier posts I once used them both. I 
> thought I had read somewhere when setting up Heuristic setting for both 
> SMSMSE and Exchange had to be identical. I would contact Symantec support 
> and confirm this. However my issues are resolved completey by simply going 
> to IMF alone. Works great and I don't see any need to have both SMSMSE and 
> IMF running. I still use SMSMSE for my email protection though and that's 
> about it.
>
>
> "Ben Winzenz [Exchange MVP]" <ben_winzenz@NOSPAMdotmessageonedotcom> wrote 
> in message news:uK0ER18WFHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> Does Symantec Mail Security require IMF in order to work?  Both IMF and 
>> MSE will work as a protocol-level event sink.  What it sounds like is the 
>> IMF event sink may have a higher priority than Symantec's, so it is 
>> firing first, and IMF is actually what is sending the messages to the 
>> Junk mail folder prior to the messages being acted on by Symantec - at 
>> least that's my guess given that there are no rules and no blocked 
>> senders.  I'd give Symantec a call and make sure that IMF is even needed 
>> for MSE to work properly.
>>
>> You might try simply disabling IMF and see what happens.  If you go in 
>> ESM under Protocols, SMTP, you'll see IMF.  When you go to the 
>> properties, simply uncheck the box.  It's at least worth a shot, right?
>>
>> -- 
>> Ben Winzenz
>> Exchange MVP
>> MessageOne
>>
>>
>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>> news:Ol9Fsn8WFHA.2540@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>> The whole reason that my SCL is set high in IMF is because I want the 
>>> Junk email folder to not work.  I don't want anything to be delivered 
>>> there. Symantec is set to catch anything with an SCL of 8 or higher and 
>>> refuse it. At the SMTP server (which is before my Exchange server), 
>>> messages are being filtered prior to making it to us.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:usJetS8WFHA.3584@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>>>> Here's something to think about Greg. Why would you have two different 
>>>> SCL rating for both SMSMSE and IMF? Also I think your SCL ratings in 
>>>> IMF are set to high. I have mine set to 5 and also my Store Junk Email 
>>>> Configuration is set to 5. I can view my messages being blocked by IMF 
>>>> through the IMF Companion and I get an average of over 150 UCE's 
>>>> getting blocked everyday. Legitimate emails getting blocked are few and 
>>>> far between if none at all. I think Junk Email is still going to your 
>>>> clients Junk Email box because your SCL ratings are set too high. To 
>>>> get a gauge on what emails with what SCL ratings are getting blocked or 
>>>> delivered you should set up a counter using Perfmon. View the reports 
>>>> and you can lower your SCL ratings accordingly.
>>>> On another note. I used to use both SMSMSE 4.5 and IMF simultaneuosly 
>>>> and did not like the results I was gettings. So I got rid of SMSMSE for 
>>>> filtering and SPAM and just started using IMF alone. Let me tell you 
>>>> that I am probably 99.99999% SPAM free. Legitimate emails getting 
>>>> blocked are not an issue with me either. All I am using is SCL ratings 
>>>> set to 5 and using some really good RBL's. that's it. A major 
>>>> improvement as far as blocking SPAM. think about it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>>> news:uJBQTD8WFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>>>I originally posted this on May 13 and haven't gotten an answer.  Any 
>>>>>help is appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Background:  Exchange 2003 w/SP1, Symantec Mail Security 4.6, and IMF.
>>>>>
>>>>> Symantec is set for Heuristic Spam scanning only....no RBL and no 
>>>>> Premium
>>>>> Anti Spam.  It's set to prevent delivery of messages if SCL >7
>>>>>
>>>>> IMF is set to Block message with SCL >=9 and when blocking messages 
>>>>> "No
>>>>> Action".  Store Junk E-mail Configuration is set to 9 (I can't say 
>>>>> turn
>>>>> off).
>>>>>
>>>>> Group Policy for Outlook is User Configuration\Administrative
>>>>> Templates\Microsoft Office Outlook 2003\Tools|Options\Preferences\Junk
>>>>> E-mail\Junk E-mail protection level is Enabled with "No Protection."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Now my question is:  Why the hell does mail STILL get delivered to the 
>>>>> junk
>>>>> email folder?  I want everything, once it reaches the Outlook 2003 
>>>>> client,
>>>>> to go to the inbox.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please help.
>>>>>
>>>>> Greg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
replyto1 (32)
5/18/2005 5:35:37 PM
If the problem existed prior to installing IMF, and you've verified that 
there are no blocked senders or rules and the Junk mail settings in Outlook 
are to perform no automatic filtering, I'm not sure how you can place the 
blame on Outlook or Exchange.

If you want to verify if it is Outlook that is doing the filtering, change 
the account from cached mode to online mode.  Junk mail filtering is not 
available when in online mode.  That doesn't mean that the server can't move 
messages there, but at least it would confirm that Outlook isn't moving 
them.  Do this to a mailbox that is seeing this issue.  If the messages 
still get moved to the Junk mail folder, then you will be able to pin it 
down to Symantec Mail Security, as you would have ruled out all other 
options.

-- 
Ben Winzenz
Exchange MVP
MessageOne


"Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
news:eYEnGA9WFHA.2796@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> The problem existed prior to installing IMF.  I installed IMF in the hopes 
> that I could disable Junk email filtering altogether.
>
> Greg
>
> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
> news:u6vfq68WFHA.1040@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> Good point Ben. If you read my earlier posts I once used them both. I 
>> thought I had read somewhere when setting up Heuristic setting for both 
>> SMSMSE and Exchange had to be identical. I would contact Symantec support 
>> and confirm this. However my issues are resolved completey by simply 
>> going to IMF alone. Works great and I don't see any need to have both 
>> SMSMSE and IMF running. I still use SMSMSE for my email protection though 
>> and that's about it.
>>
>>
>> "Ben Winzenz [Exchange MVP]" <ben_winzenz@NOSPAMdotmessageonedotcom> 
>> wrote in message news:uK0ER18WFHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>> Does Symantec Mail Security require IMF in order to work?  Both IMF and 
>>> MSE will work as a protocol-level event sink.  What it sounds like is 
>>> the IMF event sink may have a higher priority than Symantec's, so it is 
>>> firing first, and IMF is actually what is sending the messages to the 
>>> Junk mail folder prior to the messages being acted on by Symantec - at 
>>> least that's my guess given that there are no rules and no blocked 
>>> senders.  I'd give Symantec a call and make sure that IMF is even needed 
>>> for MSE to work properly.
>>>
>>> You might try simply disabling IMF and see what happens.  If you go in 
>>> ESM under Protocols, SMTP, you'll see IMF.  When you go to the 
>>> properties, simply uncheck the box.  It's at least worth a shot, right?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Ben Winzenz
>>> Exchange MVP
>>> MessageOne
>>>
>>>
>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>> news:Ol9Fsn8WFHA.2540@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>> The whole reason that my SCL is set high in IMF is because I want the 
>>>> Junk email folder to not work.  I don't want anything to be delivered 
>>>> there. Symantec is set to catch anything with an SCL of 8 or higher and 
>>>> refuse it. At the SMTP server (which is before my Exchange server), 
>>>> messages are being filtered prior to making it to us.
>>>>
>>>> Greg
>>>>
>>>> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
>>>> news:usJetS8WFHA.3584@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Here's something to think about Greg. Why would you have two different 
>>>>> SCL rating for both SMSMSE and IMF? Also I think your SCL ratings in 
>>>>> IMF are set to high. I have mine set to 5 and also my Store Junk Email 
>>>>> Configuration is set to 5. I can view my messages being blocked by IMF 
>>>>> through the IMF Companion and I get an average of over 150 UCE's 
>>>>> getting blocked everyday. Legitimate emails getting blocked are few 
>>>>> and far between if none at all. I think Junk Email is still going to 
>>>>> your clients Junk Email box because your SCL ratings are set too high. 
>>>>> To get a gauge on what emails with what SCL ratings are getting 
>>>>> blocked or delivered you should set up a counter using Perfmon. View 
>>>>> the reports and you can lower your SCL ratings accordingly.
>>>>> On another note. I used to use both SMSMSE 4.5 and IMF simultaneuosly 
>>>>> and did not like the results I was gettings. So I got rid of SMSMSE 
>>>>> for filtering and SPAM and just started using IMF alone. Let me tell 
>>>>> you that I am probably 99.99999% SPAM free. Legitimate emails getting 
>>>>> blocked are not an issue with me either. All I am using is SCL ratings 
>>>>> set to 5 and using some really good RBL's. that's it. A major 
>>>>> improvement as far as blocking SPAM. think about it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:uJBQTD8WFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>I originally posted this on May 13 and haven't gotten an answer.  Any 
>>>>>>help is appreciated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Greetings all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Background:  Exchange 2003 w/SP1, Symantec Mail Security 4.6, and 
>>>>>> IMF.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Symantec is set for Heuristic Spam scanning only....no RBL and no 
>>>>>> Premium
>>>>>> Anti Spam.  It's set to prevent delivery of messages if SCL >7
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IMF is set to Block message with SCL >=9 and when blocking messages 
>>>>>> "No
>>>>>> Action".  Store Junk E-mail Configuration is set to 9 (I can't say 
>>>>>> turn
>>>>>> off).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Group Policy for Outlook is User Configuration\Administrative
>>>>>> Templates\Microsoft Office Outlook 
>>>>>> 2003\Tools|Options\Preferences\Junk
>>>>>> E-mail\Junk E-mail protection level is Enabled with "No Protection."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now my question is:  Why the hell does mail STILL get delivered to 
>>>>>> the junk
>>>>>> email folder?  I want everything, once it reaches the Outlook 2003 
>>>>>> client,
>>>>>> to go to the inbox.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
Ben
5/18/2005 5:47:21 PM
OK so let me ask you this. Why do you not want it to be delivered to the 
users Junk Email folder? The whole purpose of this feature is to allow the 
user to determine if email that is considered borderlined Junk email to be 
or not to be junk Email. What the system may report as Junk may not be 
considered Junk by the recipient. That's it for me.


"Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
news:eYEnGA9WFHA.2796@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> The problem existed prior to installing IMF.  I installed IMF in the hopes 
> that I could disable Junk email filtering altogether.
>
> Greg
>
> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
> news:u6vfq68WFHA.1040@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> Good point Ben. If you read my earlier posts I once used them both. I 
>> thought I had read somewhere when setting up Heuristic setting for both 
>> SMSMSE and Exchange had to be identical. I would contact Symantec support 
>> and confirm this. However my issues are resolved completey by simply 
>> going to IMF alone. Works great and I don't see any need to have both 
>> SMSMSE and IMF running. I still use SMSMSE for my email protection though 
>> and that's about it.
>>
>>
>> "Ben Winzenz [Exchange MVP]" <ben_winzenz@NOSPAMdotmessageonedotcom> 
>> wrote in message news:uK0ER18WFHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>> Does Symantec Mail Security require IMF in order to work?  Both IMF and 
>>> MSE will work as a protocol-level event sink.  What it sounds like is 
>>> the IMF event sink may have a higher priority than Symantec's, so it is 
>>> firing first, and IMF is actually what is sending the messages to the 
>>> Junk mail folder prior to the messages being acted on by Symantec - at 
>>> least that's my guess given that there are no rules and no blocked 
>>> senders.  I'd give Symantec a call and make sure that IMF is even needed 
>>> for MSE to work properly.
>>>
>>> You might try simply disabling IMF and see what happens.  If you go in 
>>> ESM under Protocols, SMTP, you'll see IMF.  When you go to the 
>>> properties, simply uncheck the box.  It's at least worth a shot, right?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Ben Winzenz
>>> Exchange MVP
>>> MessageOne
>>>
>>>
>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>> news:Ol9Fsn8WFHA.2540@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>> The whole reason that my SCL is set high in IMF is because I want the 
>>>> Junk email folder to not work.  I don't want anything to be delivered 
>>>> there. Symantec is set to catch anything with an SCL of 8 or higher and 
>>>> refuse it. At the SMTP server (which is before my Exchange server), 
>>>> messages are being filtered prior to making it to us.
>>>>
>>>> Greg
>>>>
>>>> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
>>>> news:usJetS8WFHA.3584@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Here's something to think about Greg. Why would you have two different 
>>>>> SCL rating for both SMSMSE and IMF? Also I think your SCL ratings in 
>>>>> IMF are set to high. I have mine set to 5 and also my Store Junk Email 
>>>>> Configuration is set to 5. I can view my messages being blocked by IMF 
>>>>> through the IMF Companion and I get an average of over 150 UCE's 
>>>>> getting blocked everyday. Legitimate emails getting blocked are few 
>>>>> and far between if none at all. I think Junk Email is still going to 
>>>>> your clients Junk Email box because your SCL ratings are set too high. 
>>>>> To get a gauge on what emails with what SCL ratings are getting 
>>>>> blocked or delivered you should set up a counter using Perfmon. View 
>>>>> the reports and you can lower your SCL ratings accordingly.
>>>>> On another note. I used to use both SMSMSE 4.5 and IMF simultaneuosly 
>>>>> and did not like the results I was gettings. So I got rid of SMSMSE 
>>>>> for filtering and SPAM and just started using IMF alone. Let me tell 
>>>>> you that I am probably 99.99999% SPAM free. Legitimate emails getting 
>>>>> blocked are not an issue with me either. All I am using is SCL ratings 
>>>>> set to 5 and using some really good RBL's. that's it. A major 
>>>>> improvement as far as blocking SPAM. think about it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:uJBQTD8WFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>I originally posted this on May 13 and haven't gotten an answer.  Any 
>>>>>>help is appreciated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Greetings all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Background:  Exchange 2003 w/SP1, Symantec Mail Security 4.6, and 
>>>>>> IMF.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Symantec is set for Heuristic Spam scanning only....no RBL and no 
>>>>>> Premium
>>>>>> Anti Spam.  It's set to prevent delivery of messages if SCL >7
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IMF is set to Block message with SCL >=9 and when blocking messages 
>>>>>> "No
>>>>>> Action".  Store Junk E-mail Configuration is set to 9 (I can't say 
>>>>>> turn
>>>>>> off).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Group Policy for Outlook is User Configuration\Administrative
>>>>>> Templates\Microsoft Office Outlook 
>>>>>> 2003\Tools|Options\Preferences\Junk
>>>>>> E-mail\Junk E-mail protection level is Enabled with "No Protection."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now my question is:  Why the hell does mail STILL get delivered to 
>>>>>> the junk
>>>>>> email folder?  I want everything, once it reaches the Outlook 2003 
>>>>>> client,
>>>>>> to go to the inbox.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
allen2494 (55)
5/18/2005 5:50:51 PM
Because of the filtering we're doing prior to it being delivered to the 
users mailbox.  It's putting legitimate email in there.  We've pretty much 
filtered out most spam before it gets to the person's inbox.  The users 
don't want to have to look in their Junk E-mail folder to find legitimate 
emails.
Greg

"AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
news:Oo2JBI9WFHA.3996@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> OK so let me ask you this. Why do you not want it to be delivered to the 
> users Junk Email folder? The whole purpose of this feature is to allow the 
> user to determine if email that is considered borderlined Junk email to be 
> or not to be junk Email. What the system may report as Junk may not be 
> considered Junk by the recipient. That's it for me.
>
>
> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
> news:eYEnGA9WFHA.2796@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> The problem existed prior to installing IMF.  I installed IMF in the 
>> hopes that I could disable Junk email filtering altogether.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
>> news:u6vfq68WFHA.1040@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>> Good point Ben. If you read my earlier posts I once used them both. I 
>>> thought I had read somewhere when setting up Heuristic setting for both 
>>> SMSMSE and Exchange had to be identical. I would contact Symantec 
>>> support and confirm this. However my issues are resolved completey by 
>>> simply going to IMF alone. Works great and I don't see any need to have 
>>> both SMSMSE and IMF running. I still use SMSMSE for my email protection 
>>> though and that's about it.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Ben Winzenz [Exchange MVP]" <ben_winzenz@NOSPAMdotmessageonedotcom> 
>>> wrote in message news:uK0ER18WFHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>> Does Symantec Mail Security require IMF in order to work?  Both IMF and 
>>>> MSE will work as a protocol-level event sink.  What it sounds like is 
>>>> the IMF event sink may have a higher priority than Symantec's, so it is 
>>>> firing first, and IMF is actually what is sending the messages to the 
>>>> Junk mail folder prior to the messages being acted on by Symantec - at 
>>>> least that's my guess given that there are no rules and no blocked 
>>>> senders.  I'd give Symantec a call and make sure that IMF is even 
>>>> needed for MSE to work properly.
>>>>
>>>> You might try simply disabling IMF and see what happens.  If you go in 
>>>> ESM under Protocols, SMTP, you'll see IMF.  When you go to the 
>>>> properties, simply uncheck the box.  It's at least worth a shot, right?
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Ben Winzenz
>>>> Exchange MVP
>>>> MessageOne
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>>> news:Ol9Fsn8WFHA.2540@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>>> The whole reason that my SCL is set high in IMF is because I want the 
>>>>> Junk email folder to not work.  I don't want anything to be delivered 
>>>>> there. Symantec is set to catch anything with an SCL of 8 or higher 
>>>>> and refuse it. At the SMTP server (which is before my Exchange 
>>>>> server), messages are being filtered prior to making it to us.
>>>>>
>>>>> Greg
>>>>>
>>>>> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:usJetS8WFHA.3584@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Here's something to think about Greg. Why would you have two 
>>>>>> different SCL rating for both SMSMSE and IMF? Also I think your SCL 
>>>>>> ratings in IMF are set to high. I have mine set to 5 and also my 
>>>>>> Store Junk Email Configuration is set to 5. I can view my messages 
>>>>>> being blocked by IMF through the IMF Companion and I get an average 
>>>>>> of over 150 UCE's getting blocked everyday. Legitimate emails getting 
>>>>>> blocked are few and far between if none at all. I think Junk Email is 
>>>>>> still going to your clients Junk Email box because your SCL ratings 
>>>>>> are set too high. To get a gauge on what emails with what SCL ratings 
>>>>>> are getting blocked or delivered you should set up a counter using 
>>>>>> Perfmon. View the reports and you can lower your SCL ratings 
>>>>>> accordingly.
>>>>>> On another note. I used to use both SMSMSE 4.5 and IMF simultaneuosly 
>>>>>> and did not like the results I was gettings. So I got rid of SMSMSE 
>>>>>> for filtering and SPAM and just started using IMF alone. Let me tell 
>>>>>> you that I am probably 99.99999% SPAM free. Legitimate emails getting 
>>>>>> blocked are not an issue with me either. All I am using is SCL 
>>>>>> ratings set to 5 and using some really good RBL's. that's it. A major 
>>>>>> improvement as far as blocking SPAM. think about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:uJBQTD8WFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>I originally posted this on May 13 and haven't gotten an answer.  Any 
>>>>>>>help is appreciated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Greetings all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Background:  Exchange 2003 w/SP1, Symantec Mail Security 4.6, and 
>>>>>>> IMF.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Symantec is set for Heuristic Spam scanning only....no RBL and no 
>>>>>>> Premium
>>>>>>> Anti Spam.  It's set to prevent delivery of messages if SCL >7
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMF is set to Block message with SCL >=9 and when blocking messages 
>>>>>>> "No
>>>>>>> Action".  Store Junk E-mail Configuration is set to 9 (I can't say 
>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>> off).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Group Policy for Outlook is User Configuration\Administrative
>>>>>>> Templates\Microsoft Office Outlook 
>>>>>>> 2003\Tools|Options\Preferences\Junk
>>>>>>> E-mail\Junk E-mail protection level is Enabled with "No Protection."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now my question is:  Why the hell does mail STILL get delivered to 
>>>>>>> the junk
>>>>>>> email folder?  I want everything, once it reaches the Outlook 2003 
>>>>>>> client,
>>>>>>> to go to the inbox.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
replyto1 (32)
5/18/2005 6:25:56 PM
The interesting thing Ben is that we aren't running Outlook in cached mode. 
It's only running in online mode.  When you open the junk e-mail settings, 
an error pops up stating that, and if you click OK, the junk email settings 
open anyway.

Greg

"Ben Winzenz [Exchange MVP]" <ben_winzenz@NOSPAMdotmessageonedotcom> wrote 
in message news:uMC3lG9WFHA.3176@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> If the problem existed prior to installing IMF, and you've verified that 
> there are no blocked senders or rules and the Junk mail settings in 
> Outlook are to perform no automatic filtering, I'm not sure how you can 
> place the blame on Outlook or Exchange.
>
> If you want to verify if it is Outlook that is doing the filtering, change 
> the account from cached mode to online mode.  Junk mail filtering is not 
> available when in online mode.  That doesn't mean that the server can't 
> move messages there, but at least it would confirm that Outlook isn't 
> moving them.  Do this to a mailbox that is seeing this issue.  If the 
> messages still get moved to the Junk mail folder, then you will be able to 
> pin it down to Symantec Mail Security, as you would have ruled out all 
> other options.
>
> -- 
> Ben Winzenz
> Exchange MVP
> MessageOne
>
>
> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
> news:eYEnGA9WFHA.2796@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> The problem existed prior to installing IMF.  I installed IMF in the 
>> hopes that I could disable Junk email filtering altogether.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
>> news:u6vfq68WFHA.1040@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>> Good point Ben. If you read my earlier posts I once used them both. I 
>>> thought I had read somewhere when setting up Heuristic setting for both 
>>> SMSMSE and Exchange had to be identical. I would contact Symantec 
>>> support and confirm this. However my issues are resolved completey by 
>>> simply going to IMF alone. Works great and I don't see any need to have 
>>> both SMSMSE and IMF running. I still use SMSMSE for my email protection 
>>> though and that's about it.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Ben Winzenz [Exchange MVP]" <ben_winzenz@NOSPAMdotmessageonedotcom> 
>>> wrote in message news:uK0ER18WFHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>> Does Symantec Mail Security require IMF in order to work?  Both IMF and 
>>>> MSE will work as a protocol-level event sink.  What it sounds like is 
>>>> the IMF event sink may have a higher priority than Symantec's, so it is 
>>>> firing first, and IMF is actually what is sending the messages to the 
>>>> Junk mail folder prior to the messages being acted on by Symantec - at 
>>>> least that's my guess given that there are no rules and no blocked 
>>>> senders.  I'd give Symantec a call and make sure that IMF is even 
>>>> needed for MSE to work properly.
>>>>
>>>> You might try simply disabling IMF and see what happens.  If you go in 
>>>> ESM under Protocols, SMTP, you'll see IMF.  When you go to the 
>>>> properties, simply uncheck the box.  It's at least worth a shot, right?
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Ben Winzenz
>>>> Exchange MVP
>>>> MessageOne
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>>> news:Ol9Fsn8WFHA.2540@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>>> The whole reason that my SCL is set high in IMF is because I want the 
>>>>> Junk email folder to not work.  I don't want anything to be delivered 
>>>>> there. Symantec is set to catch anything with an SCL of 8 or higher 
>>>>> and refuse it. At the SMTP server (which is before my Exchange 
>>>>> server), messages are being filtered prior to making it to us.
>>>>>
>>>>> Greg
>>>>>
>>>>> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:usJetS8WFHA.3584@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Here's something to think about Greg. Why would you have two 
>>>>>> different SCL rating for both SMSMSE and IMF? Also I think your SCL 
>>>>>> ratings in IMF are set to high. I have mine set to 5 and also my 
>>>>>> Store Junk Email Configuration is set to 5. I can view my messages 
>>>>>> being blocked by IMF through the IMF Companion and I get an average 
>>>>>> of over 150 UCE's getting blocked everyday. Legitimate emails getting 
>>>>>> blocked are few and far between if none at all. I think Junk Email is 
>>>>>> still going to your clients Junk Email box because your SCL ratings 
>>>>>> are set too high. To get a gauge on what emails with what SCL ratings 
>>>>>> are getting blocked or delivered you should set up a counter using 
>>>>>> Perfmon. View the reports and you can lower your SCL ratings 
>>>>>> accordingly.
>>>>>> On another note. I used to use both SMSMSE 4.5 and IMF simultaneuosly 
>>>>>> and did not like the results I was gettings. So I got rid of SMSMSE 
>>>>>> for filtering and SPAM and just started using IMF alone. Let me tell 
>>>>>> you that I am probably 99.99999% SPAM free. Legitimate emails getting 
>>>>>> blocked are not an issue with me either. All I am using is SCL 
>>>>>> ratings set to 5 and using some really good RBL's. that's it. A major 
>>>>>> improvement as far as blocking SPAM. think about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:uJBQTD8WFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>I originally posted this on May 13 and haven't gotten an answer.  Any 
>>>>>>>help is appreciated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Greetings all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Background:  Exchange 2003 w/SP1, Symantec Mail Security 4.6, and 
>>>>>>> IMF.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Symantec is set for Heuristic Spam scanning only....no RBL and no 
>>>>>>> Premium
>>>>>>> Anti Spam.  It's set to prevent delivery of messages if SCL >7
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMF is set to Block message with SCL >=9 and when blocking messages 
>>>>>>> "No
>>>>>>> Action".  Store Junk E-mail Configuration is set to 9 (I can't say 
>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>> off).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Group Policy for Outlook is User Configuration\Administrative
>>>>>>> Templates\Microsoft Office Outlook 
>>>>>>> 2003\Tools|Options\Preferences\Junk
>>>>>>> E-mail\Junk E-mail protection level is Enabled with "No Protection."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now my question is:  Why the hell does mail STILL get delivered to 
>>>>>>> the junk
>>>>>>> email folder?  I want everything, once it reaches the Outlook 2003 
>>>>>>> client,
>>>>>>> to go to the inbox.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
replyto1 (32)
5/18/2005 6:27:06 PM
Then doesn't that take Outlook and Exchange out of the picture?  I'd disable 
IMF, then give Symantec a call and have them help you figure out why MSE is 
moving things to the Junk mail folder.  Outlook isn't doing it, because the 
client Junk mail filtering can't be enabled in Online mode.  Exchange isn't 
doing it, because it will only do that with IMF - you've stated that the 
problem existed prior to installing IMF.  To me, that only leaves one thing 
that could be doing this - MailSecurity for Exchange.

-- 
Ben Winzenz
Exchange MVP
MessageOne


"Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
news:%23CKo3c9WFHA.580@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> The interesting thing Ben is that we aren't running Outlook in cached 
> mode. It's only running in online mode.  When you open the junk e-mail 
> settings, an error pops up stating that, and if you click OK, the junk 
> email settings open anyway.
>
> Greg
>
> "Ben Winzenz [Exchange MVP]" <ben_winzenz@NOSPAMdotmessageonedotcom> wrote 
> in message news:uMC3lG9WFHA.3176@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> If the problem existed prior to installing IMF, and you've verified that 
>> there are no blocked senders or rules and the Junk mail settings in 
>> Outlook are to perform no automatic filtering, I'm not sure how you can 
>> place the blame on Outlook or Exchange.
>>
>> If you want to verify if it is Outlook that is doing the filtering, 
>> change the account from cached mode to online mode.  Junk mail filtering 
>> is not available when in online mode.  That doesn't mean that the server 
>> can't move messages there, but at least it would confirm that Outlook 
>> isn't moving them.  Do this to a mailbox that is seeing this issue.  If 
>> the messages still get moved to the Junk mail folder, then you will be 
>> able to pin it down to Symantec Mail Security, as you would have ruled 
>> out all other options.
>>
>> -- 
>> Ben Winzenz
>> Exchange MVP
>> MessageOne
>>
>>
>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>> news:eYEnGA9WFHA.2796@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>> The problem existed prior to installing IMF.  I installed IMF in the 
>>> hopes that I could disable Junk email filtering altogether.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:u6vfq68WFHA.1040@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>> Good point Ben. If you read my earlier posts I once used them both. I 
>>>> thought I had read somewhere when setting up Heuristic setting for both 
>>>> SMSMSE and Exchange had to be identical. I would contact Symantec 
>>>> support and confirm this. However my issues are resolved completey by 
>>>> simply going to IMF alone. Works great and I don't see any need to have 
>>>> both SMSMSE and IMF running. I still use SMSMSE for my email protection 
>>>> though and that's about it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Ben Winzenz [Exchange MVP]" <ben_winzenz@NOSPAMdotmessageonedotcom> 
>>>> wrote in message news:uK0ER18WFHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Does Symantec Mail Security require IMF in order to work?  Both IMF 
>>>>> and MSE will work as a protocol-level event sink.  What it sounds like 
>>>>> is the IMF event sink may have a higher priority than Symantec's, so 
>>>>> it is firing first, and IMF is actually what is sending the messages 
>>>>> to the Junk mail folder prior to the messages being acted on by 
>>>>> Symantec - at least that's my guess given that there are no rules and 
>>>>> no blocked senders.  I'd give Symantec a call and make sure that IMF 
>>>>> is even needed for MSE to work properly.
>>>>>
>>>>> You might try simply disabling IMF and see what happens.  If you go in 
>>>>> ESM under Protocols, SMTP, you'll see IMF.  When you go to the 
>>>>> properties, simply uncheck the box.  It's at least worth a shot, 
>>>>> right?
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Ben Winzenz
>>>>> Exchange MVP
>>>>> MessageOne
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:Ol9Fsn8WFHA.2540@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> The whole reason that my SCL is set high in IMF is because I want the 
>>>>>> Junk email folder to not work.  I don't want anything to be delivered 
>>>>>> there. Symantec is set to catch anything with an SCL of 8 or higher 
>>>>>> and refuse it. At the SMTP server (which is before my Exchange 
>>>>>> server), messages are being filtered prior to making it to us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:usJetS8WFHA.3584@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>> Here's something to think about Greg. Why would you have two 
>>>>>>> different SCL rating for both SMSMSE and IMF? Also I think your SCL 
>>>>>>> ratings in IMF are set to high. I have mine set to 5 and also my 
>>>>>>> Store Junk Email Configuration is set to 5. I can view my messages 
>>>>>>> being blocked by IMF through the IMF Companion and I get an average 
>>>>>>> of over 150 UCE's getting blocked everyday. Legitimate emails 
>>>>>>> getting blocked are few and far between if none at all. I think Junk 
>>>>>>> Email is still going to your clients Junk Email box because your SCL 
>>>>>>> ratings are set too high. To get a gauge on what emails with what 
>>>>>>> SCL ratings are getting blocked or delivered you should set up a 
>>>>>>> counter using Perfmon. View the reports and you can lower your SCL 
>>>>>>> ratings accordingly.
>>>>>>> On another note. I used to use both SMSMSE 4.5 and IMF 
>>>>>>> simultaneuosly and did not like the results I was gettings. So I got 
>>>>>>> rid of SMSMSE for filtering and SPAM and just started using IMF 
>>>>>>> alone. Let me tell you that I am probably 99.99999% SPAM free. 
>>>>>>> Legitimate emails getting blocked are not an issue with me either. 
>>>>>>> All I am using is SCL ratings set to 5 and using some really good 
>>>>>>> RBL's. that's it. A major improvement as far as blocking SPAM. think 
>>>>>>> about it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:uJBQTD8WFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>>I originally posted this on May 13 and haven't gotten an answer. 
>>>>>>>>Any help is appreciated.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Greetings all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Background:  Exchange 2003 w/SP1, Symantec Mail Security 4.6, and 
>>>>>>>> IMF.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Symantec is set for Heuristic Spam scanning only....no RBL and no 
>>>>>>>> Premium
>>>>>>>> Anti Spam.  It's set to prevent delivery of messages if SCL >7
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IMF is set to Block message with SCL >=9 and when blocking messages 
>>>>>>>> "No
>>>>>>>> Action".  Store Junk E-mail Configuration is set to 9 (I can't say 
>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>> off).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Group Policy for Outlook is User Configuration\Administrative
>>>>>>>> Templates\Microsoft Office Outlook 
>>>>>>>> 2003\Tools|Options\Preferences\Junk
>>>>>>>> E-mail\Junk E-mail protection level is Enabled with "No 
>>>>>>>> Protection."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now my question is:  Why the hell does mail STILL get delivered to 
>>>>>>>> the junk
>>>>>>>> email folder?  I want everything, once it reaches the Outlook 2003 
>>>>>>>> client,
>>>>>>>> to go to the inbox.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please help.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
Ben
5/18/2005 6:42:38 PM
Well appears to me that you need to lower your SCL ratings. take a look at 
my Performance Logs from IMF. If you notice the last line "Total UCE 
Messages Acted Upon" = 1130 and if you add up the totals for the SCL 
ratings5 thru 9 you will match the total. So what does that tell me? That 
most likely anything coming in with an SCL rating of 5 or less is most 
likely legitimate. That is how I calculated my SCL ratings and like I said 
legitimate emails getting blocked or sent to the Junk Email folder is not a 
problem with me. I hope this visual will help you see the inportance of the 
correct SCL ratings to use. Als IMHO and based on experience I think using 
both SMSMSE and IMF causes tomany conflicts and is overkill. Perhaps Ben can 
chime in on his comments too about this.

      \\MyServerName\MSExchange Intelligent Message Filter(_Total)\% UCE out 
of Total Messages Scanned
      63.98640997

      \\MyServerName\MSExchange Intelligent Message Filter(_Total)\Total 
Messages Assigned an SCL Rating of 0
      374

      \\MyServerName\MSExchange Intelligent Message Filter(_Total)\Total 
Messages Assigned an SCL Rating of 1
      109

      \\MyServerName\MSExchange Intelligent Message Filter(_Total)\Total 
Messages Assigned an SCL Rating of 2
      45

      \\MyServerName\MSExchange Intelligent Message Filter(_Total)\Total 
Messages Assigned an SCL Rating of 3
      39

      \\MyServerName\MSExchange Intelligent Message Filter(_Total)\Total 
Messages Assigned an SCL Rating of 4
      69

      \\MyServerName\MSExchange Intelligent Message Filter(_Total)\Total 
Messages Assigned an SCL Rating of 5
      210

      \\MyServerName\MSExchange Intelligent Message Filter(_Total)\Total 
Messages Assigned an SCL Rating of 6
      133

      \\MyServerName\MSExchange Intelligent Message Filter(_Total)\Total 
Messages Assigned an SCL Rating of 7
      228

      \\MyServerName\MSExchange Intelligent Message Filter(_Total)\Total 
Messages Assigned an SCL Rating of 8
      377

      \\MyServerName\MSExchange Intelligent Message Filter(_Total)\Total 
Messages Assigned an SCL Rating of 9
      182

      \\MyServerName\MSExchange Intelligent Message Filter(_Total)\Total 
Messages Scanned for UCE
      1766

      \\MyServerName\MSExchange Intelligent Message Filter(_Total)\Total UCE 
Messages Acted Upon
      1130



"Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
news:elgJOc9WFHA.612@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Because of the filtering we're doing prior to it being delivered to the 
> users mailbox.  It's putting legitimate email in there.  We've pretty much 
> filtered out most spam before it gets to the person's inbox.  The users 
> don't want to have to look in their Junk E-mail folder to find legitimate 
> emails.
> Greg
>
> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
> news:Oo2JBI9WFHA.3996@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> OK so let me ask you this. Why do you not want it to be delivered to the 
>> users Junk Email folder? The whole purpose of this feature is to allow 
>> the user to determine if email that is considered borderlined Junk email 
>> to be or not to be junk Email. What the system may report as Junk may not 
>> be considered Junk by the recipient. That's it for me.
>>
>>
>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>> news:eYEnGA9WFHA.2796@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>> The problem existed prior to installing IMF.  I installed IMF in the 
>>> hopes that I could disable Junk email filtering altogether.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:u6vfq68WFHA.1040@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>> Good point Ben. If you read my earlier posts I once used them both. I 
>>>> thought I had read somewhere when setting up Heuristic setting for both 
>>>> SMSMSE and Exchange had to be identical. I would contact Symantec 
>>>> support and confirm this. However my issues are resolved completey by 
>>>> simply going to IMF alone. Works great and I don't see any need to have 
>>>> both SMSMSE and IMF running. I still use SMSMSE for my email protection 
>>>> though and that's about it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Ben Winzenz [Exchange MVP]" <ben_winzenz@NOSPAMdotmessageonedotcom> 
>>>> wrote in message news:uK0ER18WFHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Does Symantec Mail Security require IMF in order to work?  Both IMF 
>>>>> and MSE will work as a protocol-level event sink.  What it sounds like 
>>>>> is the IMF event sink may have a higher priority than Symantec's, so 
>>>>> it is firing first, and IMF is actually what is sending the messages 
>>>>> to the Junk mail folder prior to the messages being acted on by 
>>>>> Symantec - at least that's my guess given that there are no rules and 
>>>>> no blocked senders.  I'd give Symantec a call and make sure that IMF 
>>>>> is even needed for MSE to work properly.
>>>>>
>>>>> You might try simply disabling IMF and see what happens.  If you go in 
>>>>> ESM under Protocols, SMTP, you'll see IMF.  When you go to the 
>>>>> properties, simply uncheck the box.  It's at least worth a shot, 
>>>>> right?
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Ben Winzenz
>>>>> Exchange MVP
>>>>> MessageOne
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:Ol9Fsn8WFHA.2540@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> The whole reason that my SCL is set high in IMF is because I want the 
>>>>>> Junk email folder to not work.  I don't want anything to be delivered 
>>>>>> there. Symantec is set to catch anything with an SCL of 8 or higher 
>>>>>> and refuse it. At the SMTP server (which is before my Exchange 
>>>>>> server), messages are being filtered prior to making it to us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:usJetS8WFHA.3584@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>> Here's something to think about Greg. Why would you have two 
>>>>>>> different SCL rating for both SMSMSE and IMF? Also I think your SCL 
>>>>>>> ratings in IMF are set to high. I have mine set to 5 and also my 
>>>>>>> Store Junk Email Configuration is set to 5. I can view my messages 
>>>>>>> being blocked by IMF through the IMF Companion and I get an average 
>>>>>>> of over 150 UCE's getting blocked everyday. Legitimate emails 
>>>>>>> getting blocked are few and far between if none at all. I think Junk 
>>>>>>> Email is still going to your clients Junk Email box because your SCL 
>>>>>>> ratings are set too high. To get a gauge on what emails with what 
>>>>>>> SCL ratings are getting blocked or delivered you should set up a 
>>>>>>> counter using Perfmon. View the reports and you can lower your SCL 
>>>>>>> ratings accordingly.
>>>>>>> On another note. I used to use both SMSMSE 4.5 and IMF 
>>>>>>> simultaneuosly and did not like the results I was gettings. So I got 
>>>>>>> rid of SMSMSE for filtering and SPAM and just started using IMF 
>>>>>>> alone. Let me tell you that I am probably 99.99999% SPAM free. 
>>>>>>> Legitimate emails getting blocked are not an issue with me either. 
>>>>>>> All I am using is SCL ratings set to 5 and using some really good 
>>>>>>> RBL's. that's it. A major improvement as far as blocking SPAM. think 
>>>>>>> about it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:uJBQTD8WFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>>I originally posted this on May 13 and haven't gotten an answer. 
>>>>>>>>Any help is appreciated.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Greetings all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Background:  Exchange 2003 w/SP1, Symantec Mail Security 4.6, and 
>>>>>>>> IMF.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Symantec is set for Heuristic Spam scanning only....no RBL and no 
>>>>>>>> Premium
>>>>>>>> Anti Spam.  It's set to prevent delivery of messages if SCL >7
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IMF is set to Block message with SCL >=9 and when blocking messages 
>>>>>>>> "No
>>>>>>>> Action".  Store Junk E-mail Configuration is set to 9 (I can't say 
>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>> off).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Group Policy for Outlook is User Configuration\Administrative
>>>>>>>> Templates\Microsoft Office Outlook 
>>>>>>>> 2003\Tools|Options\Preferences\Junk
>>>>>>>> E-mail\Junk E-mail protection level is Enabled with "No 
>>>>>>>> Protection."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now my question is:  Why the hell does mail STILL get delivered to 
>>>>>>>> the junk
>>>>>>>> email folder?  I want everything, once it reaches the Outlook 2003 
>>>>>>>> client,
>>>>>>>> to go to the inbox.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please help.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
allen2494 (55)
5/18/2005 6:50:31 PM
Ben,

Thank you SO much for living up to your MVP status! :o)  I went back and 
took a look at my Symantec settings and I believe that I may have found the 
'issue' or setting that was causing this.  Under "Action to take for 
accepted messages" there is a setting that was enabled marked "Prevent 
delivery to original recipient if SCL is >7"  I'm almost certain that this 
may be causing the delivery to the Junk E-mail folder.  I've disabled it and 
will keep an eye on the client machines.

Thanks again,
Greg

"Ben Winzenz [Exchange MVP]" <ben_winzenz@NOSPAMdotmessageonedotcom> wrote 
in message news:eQU3el9WFHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Then doesn't that take Outlook and Exchange out of the picture?  I'd 
> disable IMF, then give Symantec a call and have them help you figure out 
> why MSE is moving things to the Junk mail folder.  Outlook isn't doing it, 
> because the client Junk mail filtering can't be enabled in Online mode. 
> Exchange isn't doing it, because it will only do that with IMF - you've 
> stated that the problem existed prior to installing IMF.  To me, that only 
> leaves one thing that could be doing this - MailSecurity for Exchange.
>
> -- 
> Ben Winzenz
> Exchange MVP
> MessageOne
>
>
> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
> news:%23CKo3c9WFHA.580@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> The interesting thing Ben is that we aren't running Outlook in cached 
>> mode. It's only running in online mode.  When you open the junk e-mail 
>> settings, an error pops up stating that, and if you click OK, the junk 
>> email settings open anyway.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> "Ben Winzenz [Exchange MVP]" <ben_winzenz@NOSPAMdotmessageonedotcom> 
>> wrote in message news:uMC3lG9WFHA.3176@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>> If the problem existed prior to installing IMF, and you've verified that 
>>> there are no blocked senders or rules and the Junk mail settings in 
>>> Outlook are to perform no automatic filtering, I'm not sure how you can 
>>> place the blame on Outlook or Exchange.
>>>
>>> If you want to verify if it is Outlook that is doing the filtering, 
>>> change the account from cached mode to online mode.  Junk mail filtering 
>>> is not available when in online mode.  That doesn't mean that the server 
>>> can't move messages there, but at least it would confirm that Outlook 
>>> isn't moving them.  Do this to a mailbox that is seeing this issue.  If 
>>> the messages still get moved to the Junk mail folder, then you will be 
>>> able to pin it down to Symantec Mail Security, as you would have ruled 
>>> out all other options.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Ben Winzenz
>>> Exchange MVP
>>> MessageOne
>>>
>>>
>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>> news:eYEnGA9WFHA.2796@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>> The problem existed prior to installing IMF.  I installed IMF in the 
>>>> hopes that I could disable Junk email filtering altogether.
>>>>
>>>> Greg
>>>>
>>>> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
>>>> news:u6vfq68WFHA.1040@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Good point Ben. If you read my earlier posts I once used them both. I 
>>>>> thought I had read somewhere when setting up Heuristic setting for 
>>>>> both SMSMSE and Exchange had to be identical. I would contact Symantec 
>>>>> support and confirm this. However my issues are resolved completey by 
>>>>> simply going to IMF alone. Works great and I don't see any need to 
>>>>> have both SMSMSE and IMF running. I still use SMSMSE for my email 
>>>>> protection though and that's about it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Ben Winzenz [Exchange MVP]" <ben_winzenz@NOSPAMdotmessageonedotcom> 
>>>>> wrote in message news:uK0ER18WFHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Does Symantec Mail Security require IMF in order to work?  Both IMF 
>>>>>> and MSE will work as a protocol-level event sink.  What it sounds 
>>>>>> like is the IMF event sink may have a higher priority than 
>>>>>> Symantec's, so it is firing first, and IMF is actually what is 
>>>>>> sending the messages to the Junk mail folder prior to the messages 
>>>>>> being acted on by Symantec - at least that's my guess given that 
>>>>>> there are no rules and no blocked senders.  I'd give Symantec a call 
>>>>>> and make sure that IMF is even needed for MSE to work properly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You might try simply disabling IMF and see what happens.  If you go 
>>>>>> in ESM under Protocols, SMTP, you'll see IMF.  When you go to the 
>>>>>> properties, simply uncheck the box.  It's at least worth a shot, 
>>>>>> right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Ben Winzenz
>>>>>> Exchange MVP
>>>>>> MessageOne
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:Ol9Fsn8WFHA.2540@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>> The whole reason that my SCL is set high in IMF is because I want 
>>>>>>> the Junk email folder to not work.  I don't want anything to be 
>>>>>>> delivered there. Symantec is set to catch anything with an SCL of 8 
>>>>>>> or higher and refuse it. At the SMTP server (which is before my 
>>>>>>> Exchange server), messages are being filtered prior to making it to 
>>>>>>> us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:usJetS8WFHA.3584@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>> Here's something to think about Greg. Why would you have two 
>>>>>>>> different SCL rating for both SMSMSE and IMF? Also I think your SCL 
>>>>>>>> ratings in IMF are set to high. I have mine set to 5 and also my 
>>>>>>>> Store Junk Email Configuration is set to 5. I can view my messages 
>>>>>>>> being blocked by IMF through the IMF Companion and I get an average 
>>>>>>>> of over 150 UCE's getting blocked everyday. Legitimate emails 
>>>>>>>> getting blocked are few and far between if none at all. I think 
>>>>>>>> Junk Email is still going to your clients Junk Email box because 
>>>>>>>> your SCL ratings are set too high. To get a gauge on what emails 
>>>>>>>> with what SCL ratings are getting blocked or delivered you should 
>>>>>>>> set up a counter using Perfmon. View the reports and you can lower 
>>>>>>>> your SCL ratings accordingly.
>>>>>>>> On another note. I used to use both SMSMSE 4.5 and IMF 
>>>>>>>> simultaneuosly and did not like the results I was gettings. So I 
>>>>>>>> got rid of SMSMSE for filtering and SPAM and just started using IMF 
>>>>>>>> alone. Let me tell you that I am probably 99.99999% SPAM free. 
>>>>>>>> Legitimate emails getting blocked are not an issue with me either. 
>>>>>>>> All I am using is SCL ratings set to 5 and using some really good 
>>>>>>>> RBL's. that's it. A major improvement as far as blocking SPAM. 
>>>>>>>> think about it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>>>>>>> news:uJBQTD8WFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>>>I originally posted this on May 13 and haven't gotten an answer. 
>>>>>>>>>Any help is appreciated.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Greetings all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Background:  Exchange 2003 w/SP1, Symantec Mail Security 4.6, and 
>>>>>>>>> IMF.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Symantec is set for Heuristic Spam scanning only....no RBL and no 
>>>>>>>>> Premium
>>>>>>>>> Anti Spam.  It's set to prevent delivery of messages if SCL >7
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IMF is set to Block message with SCL >=9 and when blocking 
>>>>>>>>> messages "No
>>>>>>>>> Action".  Store Junk E-mail Configuration is set to 9 (I can't say 
>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>> off).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Group Policy for Outlook is User Configuration\Administrative
>>>>>>>>> Templates\Microsoft Office Outlook 
>>>>>>>>> 2003\Tools|Options\Preferences\Junk
>>>>>>>>> E-mail\Junk E-mail protection level is Enabled with "No 
>>>>>>>>> Protection."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now my question is:  Why the hell does mail STILL get delivered to 
>>>>>>>>> the junk
>>>>>>>>> email folder?  I want everything, once it reaches the Outlook 2003 
>>>>>>>>> client,
>>>>>>>>> to go to the inbox.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please help.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
replyto1 (32)
5/18/2005 6:51:18 PM
Allen,

Thanks again for your help in resolving this issue.  I may have gotten this 
figured out.  See a previous post to Ben in this same thread.

Thanks again!
Greg

"AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
news:Oo2JBI9WFHA.3996@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> OK so let me ask you this. Why do you not want it to be delivered to the 
> users Junk Email folder? The whole purpose of this feature is to allow the 
> user to determine if email that is considered borderlined Junk email to be 
> or not to be junk Email. What the system may report as Junk may not be 
> considered Junk by the recipient. That's it for me.
>
>
> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
> news:eYEnGA9WFHA.2796@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> The problem existed prior to installing IMF.  I installed IMF in the 
>> hopes that I could disable Junk email filtering altogether.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
>> news:u6vfq68WFHA.1040@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>> Good point Ben. If you read my earlier posts I once used them both. I 
>>> thought I had read somewhere when setting up Heuristic setting for both 
>>> SMSMSE and Exchange had to be identical. I would contact Symantec 
>>> support and confirm this. However my issues are resolved completey by 
>>> simply going to IMF alone. Works great and I don't see any need to have 
>>> both SMSMSE and IMF running. I still use SMSMSE for my email protection 
>>> though and that's about it.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Ben Winzenz [Exchange MVP]" <ben_winzenz@NOSPAMdotmessageonedotcom> 
>>> wrote in message news:uK0ER18WFHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>> Does Symantec Mail Security require IMF in order to work?  Both IMF and 
>>>> MSE will work as a protocol-level event sink.  What it sounds like is 
>>>> the IMF event sink may have a higher priority than Symantec's, so it is 
>>>> firing first, and IMF is actually what is sending the messages to the 
>>>> Junk mail folder prior to the messages being acted on by Symantec - at 
>>>> least that's my guess given that there are no rules and no blocked 
>>>> senders.  I'd give Symantec a call and make sure that IMF is even 
>>>> needed for MSE to work properly.
>>>>
>>>> You might try simply disabling IMF and see what happens.  If you go in 
>>>> ESM under Protocols, SMTP, you'll see IMF.  When you go to the 
>>>> properties, simply uncheck the box.  It's at least worth a shot, right?
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Ben Winzenz
>>>> Exchange MVP
>>>> MessageOne
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>>> news:Ol9Fsn8WFHA.2540@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>>> The whole reason that my SCL is set high in IMF is because I want the 
>>>>> Junk email folder to not work.  I don't want anything to be delivered 
>>>>> there. Symantec is set to catch anything with an SCL of 8 or higher 
>>>>> and refuse it. At the SMTP server (which is before my Exchange 
>>>>> server), messages are being filtered prior to making it to us.
>>>>>
>>>>> Greg
>>>>>
>>>>> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:usJetS8WFHA.3584@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Here's something to think about Greg. Why would you have two 
>>>>>> different SCL rating for both SMSMSE and IMF? Also I think your SCL 
>>>>>> ratings in IMF are set to high. I have mine set to 5 and also my 
>>>>>> Store Junk Email Configuration is set to 5. I can view my messages 
>>>>>> being blocked by IMF through the IMF Companion and I get an average 
>>>>>> of over 150 UCE's getting blocked everyday. Legitimate emails getting 
>>>>>> blocked are few and far between if none at all. I think Junk Email is 
>>>>>> still going to your clients Junk Email box because your SCL ratings 
>>>>>> are set too high. To get a gauge on what emails with what SCL ratings 
>>>>>> are getting blocked or delivered you should set up a counter using 
>>>>>> Perfmon. View the reports and you can lower your SCL ratings 
>>>>>> accordingly.
>>>>>> On another note. I used to use both SMSMSE 4.5 and IMF simultaneuosly 
>>>>>> and did not like the results I was gettings. So I got rid of SMSMSE 
>>>>>> for filtering and SPAM and just started using IMF alone. Let me tell 
>>>>>> you that I am probably 99.99999% SPAM free. Legitimate emails getting 
>>>>>> blocked are not an issue with me either. All I am using is SCL 
>>>>>> ratings set to 5 and using some really good RBL's. that's it. A major 
>>>>>> improvement as far as blocking SPAM. think about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Greg DeMaderios" <replyto@group.only> wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:uJBQTD8WFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>I originally posted this on May 13 and haven't gotten an answer.  Any 
>>>>>>>help is appreciated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Greetings all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Background:  Exchange 2003 w/SP1, Symantec Mail Security 4.6, and 
>>>>>>> IMF.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Symantec is set for Heuristic Spam scanning only....no RBL and no 
>>>>>>> Premium
>>>>>>> Anti Spam.  It's set to prevent delivery of messages if SCL >7
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMF is set to Block message with SCL >=9 and when blocking messages 
>>>>>>> "No
>>>>>>> Action".  Store Junk E-mail Configuration is set to 9 (I can't say 
>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>> off).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Group Policy for Outlook is User Configuration\Administrative
>>>>>>> Templates\Microsoft Office Outlook 
>>>>>>> 2003\Tools|Options\Preferences\Junk
>>>>>>> E-mail\Junk E-mail protection level is Enabled with "No Protection."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now my question is:  Why the hell does mail STILL get delivered to 
>>>>>>> the junk
>>>>>>> email folder?  I want everything, once it reaches the Outlook 2003 
>>>>>>> client,
>>>>>>> to go to the inbox.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
replyto1 (32)
5/18/2005 6:52:04 PM
Greg did you ever get a good answer?
I have the same problem. I am using Norton Internet Security (beta) which I 
think has better anti-spam, but Outlook filtering is applied first and seems 
to increase the total email input time. I have set Outlook filtering to "off" 
which means it does not check sender names, but it still applies its content 
rules.

You mentioned 
.... Symantec settings and I believe that I may have found the
'issue' or setting that was causing this.  Under "Action to take for
accepted messages" there is a setting that was enabled marked "Prevent
delivery to original recipient if SCL is >7";  I'm almost certain that this
may be causing the delivery to the Junk E-mail folder.  I've disabled it and
will keep an eye on the client machines. 
I guess I'm not using the same Symantec product cuz I can't find a setting 
like the one you mention.

[PS How come this goofy list repeats all thousand lines of previous comments 
on the thread? Verrry annoying!]


"Greg DeMaderios" wrote:

> Because of the filtering we're doing prior to it being delivered to the 
> users mailbox.  It's putting legitimate email in there.  We've pretty much 
> filtered out most spam before it gets to the person's inbox.  The users 
> don't want to have to look in their Junk E-mail folder to find legitimate 
> emails.
> Greg
> 
> "AllenM" <allen@majaro.com> wrote in message 
> news:Oo2JBI9WFHA.3996@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > OK so let me ask you this. Why do you not want it to be delivered to the 
> > users Junk Email folder? 
0
Meissner (1)
5/22/2005 1:53:04 AM
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