Customizing -2^2

Shouldn't minus a squared number be a minus number? In Excel -2^2 = 4. To
keep it negative I have to write -(2^2). It's very easy to make mistakes 
because I also work with Quattro Pro which works differently. Is there a way 
to customize this in Excel so that -2^2 = -4?

Thanks.


0
Tim
12/5/2009 9:30:13 PM
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In Excel the negation takes precedence over the power operator.

However, subtraction is a lower priority.
0-2^2
results in -4.

Does that help?


Regards,
Fred.

"Tim Walters" <timwalters@DROPTHISterra.es> wrote in message 
news:3bb8ue.of8.17.1@news.alt.net...
> Shouldn't minus a squared number be a minus number? In Excel -2^2 = 4. To
> keep it negative I have to write -(2^2). It's very easy to make mistakes 
> because I also work with Quattro Pro which works differently. Is there a 
> way to customize this in Excel so that -2^2 = -4?
>
> Thanks.
>
> 

0
Fred
12/5/2009 9:38:05 PM
Excel is performing the operations using the standard precendence with
mathematical operations

the order is generally

^ first from left to right
* and / from left to right
+ and - from left to right


-- 
joel
------------------------------------------------------------------------
joel's Profile: http://www.thecodecage.com/forumz/member.php?userid=229
View this thread: http://www.thecodecage.com/forumz/showthread.php?t=159950

[url=&quot;http://www.thecodecage.com&quot;]Microsoft Office Help[/url]

0
joel
12/5/2009 9:47:11 PM
"Tim Walters" <timwalters@DROPTHISterra.es> wrote:
> Is there a way to customize this in Excel so that
> -2^2 = -4?

No, at least not in Excel 2003.  Operator precedence is not configurable.


> Shouldn't minus a squared number be a minus number?

Arguing about the correctness (or not) of operator precedence among computer 
languages is like arguing about the correctness of the order of 
adverbial/verb and adjective/noun among natural languages.  At least one 
computer language eschewed operator precedence rules altogether.  Whose to 
say that is wrong?

When you learn a natural language, you learn its peculiar grammar rules as 
well as its vocabulary.  Similarly with computer languages and applications 
like Excel that have a significant language for expressing things.

It is fair to say that Excel's precedence order between unary negation and 
exponentiation is different from conventional mathematics.  That is neither 
"right" nor "wrong".  Arguably, it would be "wrong" if Excel was marketed as 
a language for expressing mathematics.  But I do not believe MS has never 
made that claim.  (Obviously they shouldn't.)

As far as compatibility among spreadsheet products, Excel's 
backward-compatibility models are Multiplan, Lotus and Visicalc, probably in 
that order.  Those were the market leaders of their day.

A human user must make appropriate adjustments when moving from one product 
to another similar product.  MS Word is very different from WordPerfect. 
Likewise, Excel is different from Quattro Pro, albeit perhaps not quite as 
dissimilar in some respects.

However, a QuattroPro-to-Excel converter should handle the differences 
appropriately.  In particular, the Quattro Pro formula -2^2 should be 
converted to the Excel formula -(2^2) or -POWER(2,2).  If it is not, that is 
a defect in the converter, not a flaw in Excel operator precedence.


----- original message ----- 

"Tim Walters" <timwalters@DROPTHISterra.es> wrote in message 
news:3bb8ue.of8.17.1@news.alt.net...
> Shouldn't minus a squared number be a minus number? In Excel -2^2 = 4. To
> keep it negative I have to write -(2^2). It's very easy to make mistakes 
> because I also work with Quattro Pro which works differently. Is there a 
> way to customize this in Excel so that -2^2 = -4?
>
> Thanks.

0
Joe
12/5/2009 11:43:10 PM
Tim Walters wrote:
> Shouldn't minus a squared number be a minus number? In Excel -2^2 = 4. To
> keep it negative I have to write -(2^2). It's very easy to make mistakes 
> because I also work with Quattro Pro which works differently. Is there a 
> way to customize this in Excel so that -2^2 = -4?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
In Excel help, type in "order of precedence."
First, Excel negates the 2.
Then it squares -2.
That results in +4.
I can't speak for Quattro Pro, as I haven't used it for years, but 
always thought it was a better product than Lotus 1-2-3.

Bill
0
Bill
12/6/2009 1:31:17 AM
"Joe User" <joeu2004> wrote in message 
news:uen51SgdKHA.4952@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> "Tim Walters" <timwalters@DROPTHISterra.es> wrote:
>> Is there a way to customize this in Excel so that
>> -2^2 = -4?
>
> No, at least not in Excel 2003.  Operator precedence is not configurable.
>
>
>> Shouldn't minus a squared number be a minus number?
>
> Arguing about the correctness (or not) of operator precedence among 
> computer languages is like arguing about the correctness of the order of 
> adverbial/verb and adjective/noun among natural languages.  At least one 
> computer language eschewed operator precedence rules altogether.  Whose to 
> say that is wrong?


Surely, if Excel treats -2^2 differently from +0-2^2, one has a right to 
claim that it obliges one to use DIFFERENT grammars in the same language. 
After all, the two statements are arithmetically identical.


>
> When you learn a natural language, you learn its peculiar grammar rules as 
> well as its vocabulary.  Similarly with computer languages and 
> applications like Excel that have a significant language for expressing 
> things.
>
> It is fair to say that Excel's precedence order between unary negation and 
> exponentiation is different from conventional mathematics.  That is 
> neither "right" nor "wrong".  Arguably, it would be "wrong" if Excel was 
> marketed as a language for expressing mathematics.  But I do not believe 
> MS has never made that claim.  (Obviously they shouldn't.)
>
> As far as compatibility among spreadsheet products, Excel's 
> backward-compatibility models are Multiplan, Lotus and Visicalc, probably 
> in that order.  Those were the market leaders of their day.
>
> A human user must make appropriate adjustments when moving from one 
> product to another similar product.  MS Word is very different from 
> WordPerfect. Likewise, Excel is different from Quattro Pro, albeit perhaps 
> not quite as dissimilar in some respects.
>
> However, a QuattroPro-to-Excel converter should handle the differences 
> appropriately.  In particular, the Quattro Pro formula -2^2 should be 
> converted to the Excel formula -(2^2) or -POWER(2,2).  If it is not, that 
> is a defect in the converter, not a flaw in Excel operator precedence.
>
>
> ----- original message ----- 
>
> "Tim Walters" <timwalters@DROPTHISterra.es> wrote in message 
> news:3bb8ue.of8.17.1@news.alt.net...
>> Shouldn't minus a squared number be a minus number? In Excel -2^2 = 4. To
>> keep it negative I have to write -(2^2). It's very easy to make mistakes 
>> because I also work with Quattro Pro which works differently. Is there a 
>> way to customize this in Excel so that -2^2 = -4?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> 


0
Tim
12/6/2009 9:47:10 PM
"Tim Walters" <timwalters@DROPTHISterra.es> wrote:
> Surely, if Excel treats -2^2 differently from +0-2^2,
> one has a right to claim that it obliges one to use
> DIFFERENT grammars in the same language.

Only if you ass-u-me something about the precedence of unary negation.

Excel has only one grammar.  And in that grammar, unary negation has 
precedence over exponential.  If you don't like it, don't use Excel.  Do us 
all a favor ;-).


> After all, the two statements are arithmetically identical.

It is fair to say that the two expressions are identical in the language of 
mathematics.


----- original message -----

"Tim Walters" <timwalters@DROPTHISterra.es> wrote in message 
news:3bdua8.54v.19.1@news.alt.net...
>
> "Joe User" <joeu2004> wrote in message 
> news:uen51SgdKHA.4952@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> "Tim Walters" <timwalters@DROPTHISterra.es> wrote:
>>> Is there a way to customize this in Excel so that
>>> -2^2 = -4?
>>
>> No, at least not in Excel 2003.  Operator precedence is not configurable.
>>
>>
>>> Shouldn't minus a squared number be a minus number?
>>
>> Arguing about the correctness (or not) of operator precedence among 
>> computer languages is like arguing about the correctness of the order of 
>> adverbial/verb and adjective/noun among natural languages.  At least one 
>> computer language eschewed operator precedence rules altogether.  Whose 
>> to say that is wrong?
>
>
> Surely, if Excel treats -2^2 differently from +0-2^2, one has a right to 
> claim that it obliges one to use DIFFERENT grammars in the same language. 
> After all, the two statements are arithmetically identical.
>
>
>>
>> When you learn a natural language, you learn its peculiar grammar rules 
>> as well as its vocabulary.  Similarly with computer languages and 
>> applications like Excel that have a significant language for expressing 
>> things.
>>
>> It is fair to say that Excel's precedence order between unary negation 
>> and exponentiation is different from conventional mathematics.  That is 
>> neither "right" nor "wrong".  Arguably, it would be "wrong" if Excel was 
>> marketed as a language for expressing mathematics.  But I do not believe 
>> MS has never made that claim.  (Obviously they shouldn't.)
>>
>> As far as compatibility among spreadsheet products, Excel's 
>> backward-compatibility models are Multiplan, Lotus and Visicalc, probably 
>> in that order.  Those were the market leaders of their day.
>>
>> A human user must make appropriate adjustments when moving from one 
>> product to another similar product.  MS Word is very different from 
>> WordPerfect. Likewise, Excel is different from Quattro Pro, albeit 
>> perhaps not quite as dissimilar in some respects.
>>
>> However, a QuattroPro-to-Excel converter should handle the differences 
>> appropriately.  In particular, the Quattro Pro formula -2^2 should be 
>> converted to the Excel formula -(2^2) or -POWER(2,2).  If it is not, that 
>> is a defect in the converter, not a flaw in Excel operator precedence.
>>
>>
>> ----- original message ----- 
>>
>> "Tim Walters" <timwalters@DROPTHISterra.es> wrote in message 
>> news:3bb8ue.of8.17.1@news.alt.net...
>>> Shouldn't minus a squared number be a minus number? In Excel -2^2 = 4. 
>>> To
>>> keep it negative I have to write -(2^2). It's very easy to make mistakes 
>>> because I also work with Quattro Pro which works differently. Is there a 
>>> way to customize this in Excel so that -2^2 = -4?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>
> 

0
Joe
12/7/2009 12:24:03 AM
PS....

"Tim Walters" <timwalters@DROPTHISterra.es> wrote:
> Excel treats -2^2 differently from +0-2^2
> [....  But]
> the two statements are arithmetically identical

FYI, I notice that the equivalent of -2^2 and 0-2^2 have different results 
using the MS Calculator that comes with(?) Win XP, if you perform the 
operations left-to-right as you read them.

My point is not to justify Excel's choice of precedence rules, but instead 
to debunk your assertion that there is some God-given rule that the two 
expressions are "arithmetically identical".

I reiterate.... They are identical in the language of mathematics.  Whether 
or not they are identical in another language is the prerogative of the 
language designer to decide.


----- original message -----

"Joe User" <joeu2004> wrote in message 
news:%23X4DWOtdKHA.2460@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> "Tim Walters" <timwalters@DROPTHISterra.es> wrote:
>> Surely, if Excel treats -2^2 differently from +0-2^2,
>> one has a right to claim that it obliges one to use
>> DIFFERENT grammars in the same language.
>
> Only if you ass-u-me something about the precedence of unary negation.
>
> Excel has only one grammar.  And in that grammar, unary negation has 
> precedence over exponential.  If you don't like it, don't use Excel.  Do 
> us all a favor ;-).
>
>
>> After all, the two statements are arithmetically identical.
>
> It is fair to say that the two expressions are identical in the language 
> of mathematics.
>
>
> ----- original message -----
>
> "Tim Walters" <timwalters@DROPTHISterra.es> wrote in message 
> news:3bdua8.54v.19.1@news.alt.net...
>>
>> "Joe User" <joeu2004> wrote in message 
>> news:uen51SgdKHA.4952@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>> "Tim Walters" <timwalters@DROPTHISterra.es> wrote:
>>>> Is there a way to customize this in Excel so that
>>>> -2^2 = -4?
>>>
>>> No, at least not in Excel 2003.  Operator precedence is not 
>>> configurable.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Shouldn't minus a squared number be a minus number?
>>>
>>> Arguing about the correctness (or not) of operator precedence among 
>>> computer languages is like arguing about the correctness of the order of 
>>> adverbial/verb and adjective/noun among natural languages.  At least one 
>>> computer language eschewed operator precedence rules altogether.  Whose 
>>> to say that is wrong?
>>
>>
>> Surely, if Excel treats -2^2 differently from +0-2^2, one has a right to 
>> claim that it obliges one to use DIFFERENT grammars in the same language. 
>> After all, the two statements are arithmetically identical.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> When you learn a natural language, you learn its peculiar grammar rules 
>>> as well as its vocabulary.  Similarly with computer languages and 
>>> applications like Excel that have a significant language for expressing 
>>> things.
>>>
>>> It is fair to say that Excel's precedence order between unary negation 
>>> and exponentiation is different from conventional mathematics.  That is 
>>> neither "right" nor "wrong".  Arguably, it would be "wrong" if Excel was 
>>> marketed as a language for expressing mathematics.  But I do not believe 
>>> MS has never made that claim.  (Obviously they shouldn't.)
>>>
>>> As far as compatibility among spreadsheet products, Excel's 
>>> backward-compatibility models are Multiplan, Lotus and Visicalc, 
>>> probably in that order.  Those were the market leaders of their day.
>>>
>>> A human user must make appropriate adjustments when moving from one 
>>> product to another similar product.  MS Word is very different from 
>>> WordPerfect. Likewise, Excel is different from Quattro Pro, albeit 
>>> perhaps not quite as dissimilar in some respects.
>>>
>>> However, a QuattroPro-to-Excel converter should handle the differences 
>>> appropriately.  In particular, the Quattro Pro formula -2^2 should be 
>>> converted to the Excel formula -(2^2) or -POWER(2,2).  If it is not, 
>>> that is a defect in the converter, not a flaw in Excel operator 
>>> precedence.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- original message ----- 
>>>
>>> "Tim Walters" <timwalters@DROPTHISterra.es> wrote in message 
>>> news:3bb8ue.of8.17.1@news.alt.net...
>>>> Shouldn't minus a squared number be a minus number? In Excel -2^2 = 4. 
>>>> To
>>>> keep it negative I have to write -(2^2). It's very easy to make 
>>>> mistakes because I also work with Quattro Pro which works differently. 
>>>> Is there a way to customize this in Excel so that -2^2 = -4?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> 

0
Joe
12/7/2009 1:13:22 AM
Reply:

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