Forest Plots......can these be done in excel or powerpoint

Forest Plots......can these be done in excel or powerpoint
0
Claire8 (2)
9/20/2005 7:15:01 PM
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Only if you have the trees!
To be serious, please tell what is a forest plot then we might be able to 
help
best wishes
-- 
Bernard V Liengme
www.stfx.ca/people/bliengme
remove caps from email

"Claire8" <Claire8@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:F067271C-7101-400D-B319-D490695F8103@microsoft.com...
> Forest Plots......can these be done in excel or powerpoint 


0
bliengme5824 (3040)
9/20/2005 7:42:04 PM
it has a horizontal axis and the vertival axis in in the middle of that. 
There is a value which is plotted as a rectangle and then a range around it 
that is plotted like a SD as a line going through it...hard to describe. The 
axis is also not uniform ie it goes from 0.25 to 0.50 to 1.0
0
Claire8 (2)
9/20/2005 8:12:03 PM
Any links to an example, so we can see one?

- Jon
-------
Jon Peltier, Microsoft Excel MVP
Peltier Technical Services
Tutorials and Custom Solutions
http://PeltierTech.com/
_______


Claire8 wrote:

> it has a horizontal axis and the vertival axis in in the middle of that. 
> There is a value which is plotted as a rectangle and then a range around it 
> that is plotted like a SD as a line going through it...hard to describe. The 
> axis is also not uniform ie it goes from 0.25 to 0.50 to 1.0
0
9/21/2005 12:10:54 AM
Forest plots are an established way of presenting results of a statistical
meta-analysis. They are basicly just type of error-bar plots, with error
bars usually horizontal, (preferably) varying size of the symbol, and often
an added vertical line. To clarify with an example: typically, the symbol
would depict the odds ratio estimated from one study, the error bars would
represent the limits of its (say, 95%) confidence interval, symbol size
would reflect sample size (since a study with a larger sample ... - no space
to explain statistics here), and the line would denote the odds ratio 1
(corresponding to no effect - speaking very briefly thus simplicistically).
Different studies reviewed in the meta-analyses would be depicted one above
the other, perhaps ordered chronologically (or by the estimated OR).

Of course, the arrangement can be rotated, i.e., vertical error bars and
horizontal unity line. Also, with ORs, it is reasonable to make the numeric
axis logarithmic, while with some other effect size measure one will leave
it linear (for measures other than OR, the <no effect> line would, of
course, also placed elsewhere, usually at 0). As another point, one can use
different symbols for different directions of effect (if the topic
researched happens to be that controversial), or at least for the studies
showing stat. sig. effect vs. non-sig. ones.

Anyway, from this brief description (for more, just google on "meta-analysis
forest plot"; whoever is the original poster, he or she should first read
extensively and thoroughly on meta-analysis, anyway), it should be clear
that no special software is required for forest plots, and that Excel is
actually very useful for constructing quite useful forrest plots.

If one insists on "canned stuff", I believe the nice freeware basics stats
package Merlin
http://www.heckgrammar.kirklees.sch.uk/content/departments/science/biology/merlin.htm
does what it calls kyte-graphs, which might be used for the purpose of
producing forest plots. If not, the package and the enthousiasts who
developed it deserves credit anyway.

As for professional stats packages, NCSS (at least the latest version) does
forest plots as one of its advertised features.

Hope this helps,

Gaj Vidmar
Univ. of Ljubljana, Fac. of Medicine, Inst. of Biomedical Informatics
http://www.mf.uni-lj.si/ibmi-english [/biostat-center] [-> Software]

"Jon Peltier" <jonREMOVExlmvp@peltierCAPStech.com> wrote in message
news:OcuZwDkvFHA.3252@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Any links to an example, so we can see one?
>
> - Jon
> -------
> Jon Peltier, Microsoft Excel MVP
> Peltier Technical Services
> Tutorials and Custom Solutions
> http://PeltierTech.com/
> _______
>
>
> Claire8 wrote:
>
> > it has a horizontal axis and the vertival axis in in the middle of that.
> > There is a value which is plotted as a rectangle and then a range around
it
> > that is plotted like a SD as a line going through it...hard to describe.
The
> > axis is also not uniform ie it goes from 0.25 to 0.50 to 1.0


0
gaj.vidmar (14)
9/22/2005 11:10:15 AM
Any links to an example, so we can see one?

- Jon
-------
Jon Peltier, Microsoft Excel MVP
Peltier Technical Services
Tutorials and Custom Solutions
http://PeltierTech.com/
_______


Gaj Vidmar wrote:

> Forest plots are an established way of presenting results of a statistical
> meta-analysis. They are basicly just type of error-bar plots, with error
> bars usually horizontal, (preferably) varying size of the symbol, and often
> an added vertical line. To clarify with an example: typically, the symbol
> would depict the odds ratio estimated from one study, the error bars would
> represent the limits of its (say, 95%) confidence interval, symbol size
> would reflect sample size (since a study with a larger sample ... - no space
> to explain statistics here), and the line would denote the odds ratio 1
> (corresponding to no effect - speaking very briefly thus simplicistically).
> Different studies reviewed in the meta-analyses would be depicted one above
> the other, perhaps ordered chronologically (or by the estimated OR).
> 
> Of course, the arrangement can be rotated, i.e., vertical error bars and
> horizontal unity line. Also, with ORs, it is reasonable to make the numeric
> axis logarithmic, while with some other effect size measure one will leave
> it linear (for measures other than OR, the <no effect> line would, of
> course, also placed elsewhere, usually at 0). As another point, one can use
> different symbols for different directions of effect (if the topic
> researched happens to be that controversial), or at least for the studies
> showing stat. sig. effect vs. non-sig. ones.
> 
> Anyway, from this brief description (for more, just google on "meta-analysis
> forest plot"; whoever is the original poster, he or she should first read
> extensively and thoroughly on meta-analysis, anyway), it should be clear
> that no special software is required for forest plots, and that Excel is
> actually very useful for constructing quite useful forrest plots.
> 
> If one insists on "canned stuff", I believe the nice freeware basics stats
> package Merlin
> http://www.heckgrammar.kirklees.sch.uk/content/departments/science/biology/merlin.htm
> does what it calls kyte-graphs, which might be used for the purpose of
> producing forest plots. If not, the package and the enthousiasts who
> developed it deserves credit anyway.
> 
> As for professional stats packages, NCSS (at least the latest version) does
> forest plots as one of its advertised features.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Gaj Vidmar
> Univ. of Ljubljana, Fac. of Medicine, Inst. of Biomedical Informatics
> http://www.mf.uni-lj.si/ibmi-english [/biostat-center] [-> Software]
> 
> "Jon Peltier" <jonREMOVExlmvp@peltierCAPStech.com> wrote in message
> news:OcuZwDkvFHA.3252@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> 
>>Any links to an example, so we can see one?
>>
>>- Jon
>>-------
>>Jon Peltier, Microsoft Excel MVP
>>Peltier Technical Services
>>Tutorials and Custom Solutions
>>http://PeltierTech.com/
>>_______
>>
>>
>>Claire8 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>it has a horizontal axis and the vertival axis in in the middle of that.
>>>There is a value which is plotted as a rectangle and then a range around
> 
> it
> 
>>>that is plotted like a SD as a line going through it...hard to describe.
> 
> The
> 
>>>axis is also not uniform ie it goes from 0.25 to 0.50 to 1.0
> 
> 
> 
0
9/22/2005 6:36:59 PM
Here's an example cum description.
http://www.childrens-mercy.org/stats/weblog2005/ForestPlots.asp

Looks like a bubble chart with custom markers(square and diamond) for 
the weighting and custom x error bars for the confidence intervals.

Cheers
Andy

Jon Peltier wrote:
> Any links to an example, so we can see one?
> 
> - Jon
> -------
> Jon Peltier, Microsoft Excel MVP
> Peltier Technical Services
> Tutorials and Custom Solutions
> http://PeltierTech.com/
> _______
> 
> 
> Gaj Vidmar wrote:
> 
>> Forest plots are an established way of presenting results of a 
>> statistical
>> meta-analysis. They are basicly just type of error-bar plots, with error
>> bars usually horizontal, (preferably) varying size of the symbol, and 
>> often
>> an added vertical line. To clarify with an example: typically, the symbol
>> would depict the odds ratio estimated from one study, the error bars 
>> would
>> represent the limits of its (say, 95%) confidence interval, symbol size
>> would reflect sample size (since a study with a larger sample ... - no 
>> space
>> to explain statistics here), and the line would denote the odds ratio 1
>> (corresponding to no effect - speaking very briefly thus 
>> simplicistically).
>> Different studies reviewed in the meta-analyses would be depicted one 
>> above
>> the other, perhaps ordered chronologically (or by the estimated OR).
>>
>> Of course, the arrangement can be rotated, i.e., vertical error bars and
>> horizontal unity line. Also, with ORs, it is reasonable to make the 
>> numeric
>> axis logarithmic, while with some other effect size measure one will 
>> leave
>> it linear (for measures other than OR, the <no effect> line would, of
>> course, also placed elsewhere, usually at 0). As another point, one 
>> can use
>> different symbols for different directions of effect (if the topic
>> researched happens to be that controversial), or at least for the studies
>> showing stat. sig. effect vs. non-sig. ones.
>>
>> Anyway, from this brief description (for more, just google on 
>> "meta-analysis
>> forest plot"; whoever is the original poster, he or she should first read
>> extensively and thoroughly on meta-analysis, anyway), it should be clear
>> that no special software is required for forest plots, and that Excel is
>> actually very useful for constructing quite useful forrest plots.
>>
>> If one insists on "canned stuff", I believe the nice freeware basics 
>> stats
>> package Merlin
>> http://www.heckgrammar.kirklees.sch.uk/content/departments/science/biology/merlin.htm 
>>
>> does what it calls kyte-graphs, which might be used for the purpose of
>> producing forest plots. If not, the package and the enthousiasts who
>> developed it deserves credit anyway.
>>
>> As for professional stats packages, NCSS (at least the latest version) 
>> does
>> forest plots as one of its advertised features.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> Gaj Vidmar
>> Univ. of Ljubljana, Fac. of Medicine, Inst. of Biomedical Informatics
>> http://www.mf.uni-lj.si/ibmi-english [/biostat-center] [-> Software]
>>
>> "Jon Peltier" <jonREMOVExlmvp@peltierCAPStech.com> wrote in message
>> news:OcuZwDkvFHA.3252@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>
>>> Any links to an example, so we can see one?
>>>
>>> - Jon
>>> -------
>>> Jon Peltier, Microsoft Excel MVP
>>> Peltier Technical Services
>>> Tutorials and Custom Solutions
>>> http://PeltierTech.com/
>>> _______
>>>
>>>
>>> Claire8 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> it has a horizontal axis and the vertival axis in in the middle of 
>>>> that.
>>>> There is a value which is plotted as a rectangle and then a range 
>>>> around
>>
>>
>> it
>>
>>>> that is plotted like a SD as a line going through it...hard to 
>>>> describe.
>>
>>
>> The
>>
>>>> axis is also not uniform ie it goes from 0.25 to 0.50 to 1.0
>>
>>
>>
>>

-- 

Andy Pope, Microsoft MVP - Excel
http://www.andypope.info
0
andy9699 (3616)
9/22/2005 7:14:55 PM
Oh, that's not too bad.

Bubble chart with custom markers: make the bubble chart, draw the 
desired shape in the worksheet, copy it, select the series, and paste. 
Wow, square bubbles. The diamond is also a custom marker. See also

   http://peltiertech.com/Excel/ChartsHowTo/CustomMarkers.html

Custom error bars:

   http://peltiertech.com/Excel/ChartsHowTo/ErrorBars.html

The dashed vertical line is an error bar on the diamond. the vertical 
line at 1 can either be the category axis crossing at 1, or an error bar 
on an invisible point. A bubble chart can't have  an XY series as part 
of a combination chart, as I like to do in my charts, but you can use a 
bubble chart series for this with no border and no fill. Otherwise, any 
of these error bar techniques for adding a line would work fine:

   http://peltiertech.com/Excel/Charts/AddLine.html

- Jon
-------
Jon Peltier, Microsoft Excel MVP
Peltier Technical Services
Tutorials and Custom Solutions
http://PeltierTech.com/
_______


Andy Pope wrote:
> Here's an example cum description.
> http://www.childrens-mercy.org/stats/weblog2005/ForestPlots.asp
> 
> Looks like a bubble chart with custom markers(square and diamond) for 
> the weighting and custom x error bars for the confidence intervals.
> 
> Cheers
> Andy
> 
> Jon Peltier wrote:
> 
>> Any links to an example, so we can see one?
>>
>> - Jon
>> -------
>> Jon Peltier, Microsoft Excel MVP
>> Peltier Technical Services
>> Tutorials and Custom Solutions
>> http://PeltierTech.com/
>> _______
>>
0
9/23/2005 12:56:43 AM
Hi Claire8,

It takes a combined stacked bar chart and scatter chart but, yes - Forest 
Plots can be done in Excel.  I have placed a very basic sample at 
http://edferrero.m6.net/charting.aspx called Forest Plots. Let me know if 
this is useful.

Ed Ferrero
http://edferrero.m6.net/

> Forest Plots......can these be done in excel or powerpoint 


0
mail953 (171)
10/14/2005 7:37:38 AM
Reply:

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