Serious performance issues when changing roles

Just a heads-up: don't change roles during times of heavy 
user activity or you may have severe performance issues.  

When you change a role, the MSCRMSEcurityService 
evidently kicks off a massive job that updates the 
securitydescriptor field in every record of every major 
object.  Last time I did this, it attempted to obtain a 
table lock, and as a result, brought my system to its 
knees.  

The process was trying to update 46000+ rows from the 
annotationbase table (you can see this by looking at the 
last SQL command for the process that is blocking other 
processes).  Evidently because it had so many rows to 
work on, it was trying to do it 'effeciently', and grab 
the whole table, so anything that accessed Notes (i.e. 
practically everything) started timing out.

Has anybody run across this, and found some setting in 
SQL Server that will stop CRM from taking the system to 
its knees?  Thanks,

Dave
davidlcarr_removebetweenunderscores_@earthlink.net
0
Dave
3/2/2004 1:15:35 AM
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Not much you can do Dave, it's the way it's designed.

Mike

greaterthantwo media
Printable Quotes, Orders and Invoices, with line-item details, now available
for MSCRM.
http://www.greaterthantwo.com


"Dave Carr" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4e5801c3fff3$dd640000$a501280a@phx.gbl...
> Just a heads-up: don't change roles during times of heavy
> user activity or you may have severe performance issues.
>
> When you change a role, the MSCRMSEcurityService
> evidently kicks off a massive job that updates the
> securitydescriptor field in every record of every major
> object.  Last time I did this, it attempted to obtain a
> table lock, and as a result, brought my system to its
> knees.
>
> The process was trying to update 46000+ rows from the
> annotationbase table (you can see this by looking at the
> last SQL command for the process that is blocking other
> processes).  Evidently because it had so many rows to
> work on, it was trying to do it 'effeciently', and grab
> the whole table, so anything that accessed Notes (i.e.
> practically everything) started timing out.
>
> Has anybody run across this, and found some setting in
> SQL Server that will stop CRM from taking the system to
> its knees?  Thanks,
>
> Dave
> davidlcarr_removebetweenunderscores_@earthlink.net


0
GreaterThanTwo
3/2/2004 4:51:14 PM
Sad, but true.  It really highlights the need to try to configure the
security as best as you can early in the process.  At least then,
there aren't that many rows in the tables when you make changes.

Matt

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:51:14 -0800, "GreaterThanTwo Media"
<nospam_info@greaterthantwo.com> wrote:

Not much you can do Dave, it's the way it's designed.

Mike

greaterthantwo media
Printable Quotes, Orders and Invoices, with line-item details, now
available
for MSCRM.
http://www.greaterthantwo.com


"Dave Carr" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4e5801c3fff3$dd640000$a501280a@phx.gbl...
> Just a heads-up: don't change roles during times of heavy
> user activity or you may have severe performance issues.
>
> When you change a role, the MSCRMSEcurityService
> evidently kicks off a massive job that updates the
> securitydescriptor field in every record of every major
> object.  Last time I did this, it attempted to obtain a
> table lock, and as a result, brought my system to its
> knees.
>
> The process was trying to update 46000+ rows from the
> annotationbase table (you can see this by looking at the
> last SQL command for the process that is blocking other
> processes).  Evidently because it had so many rows to
> work on, it was trying to do it 'effeciently', and grab
> the whole table, so anything that accessed Notes (i.e.
> practically everything) started timing out.
>
> Has anybody run across this, and found some setting in
> SQL Server that will stop CRM from taking the system to
> its knees?  Thanks,
>
> Dave
> davidlcarr_removebetweenunderscores_@earthlink.net


0
Matt
3/2/2004 7:15:08 PM
Unbelievable.  Warning to everyone - do NOT make massive 
changes to roles in production!!!  MS Support is 
supposedly working on a private hotfix for this as we 
speak, and let me tell you - you do NOT want to suffer 
this performance hit...

Some additional info: when you change a role, it inserts 
a row (each circle I believe creates one role) into the 
RolePrivileges table and the triggers in there kick off 
an incredible number of update statements.  

It goes through EVERY table (that has a 
securitydescriptor field in it) BU by BU, and, evidently 
in a cursor loop, does one update for every single 
record.  Talk about a monstrosity.

___FULL RANT ON___

When will people - even the sometimes brilliant MS 
developers - learn: when you violate the rules of data 
normalization in a transaction system, it will come back 
to bite you EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!

This securitydescriptor has got to go.  I know it was 
done for performance reason, but it doesn't seem like 
it's working too well to me right now!  They sacrificed 
some small performance hit for each transaction for a 
HUGE, SYSTEM KILLING hit when you do something as crazy 
as change a role!  

I know the securitydescriptor contains some brilliant 
Phd's encryption algorithm that encapsulates all of the 
role and privilege stuff, but I have to tell ya, it was 
the wrong design.

I have to believe if they used the relational database 
the way it was supposed to be used, and created a view 
that encapsulated all of the joins to get the security 
descriptor information as it exists now, you wouldn't 
need this monstrosity that updates each and every row of 
every freakin' table each time you make a role change!!!!

In my dreams, everybody who signed off on this killer of 
a design has to write this 1000 times on the blackboard:

DO _not_ _EVER_ DENORMALIZE TRANSACTION SYSTEM TABLES
DO _not_ _EVER_ DENORMALIZE TRANSACTION SYSTEM TABLES
DO _not_ _EVER_ DENORMALIZE TRANSACTION SYSTEM TABLES
DO _not_ _EVER_ DENORMALIZE TRANSACTION SYSTEM TABLES
DO _not_ _EVER_ DENORMALIZE TRANSACTION SYSTEM TABLES
DO _not_ _EVER_ DENORMALIZE TRANSACTION SYSTEM TABLES

Arghhh!!!!!!

-- Rant mode off --- 

>-----Original Message-----
>Not much you can do Dave, it's the way it's designed.
>
>Mike
>
>greaterthantwo media
>Printable Quotes, Orders and Invoices, with line-item 
details, now available
>for MSCRM.
>http://www.greaterthantwo.com
>
>
>"Dave Carr" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote 
in message
>news:4e5801c3fff3$dd640000$a501280a@phx.gbl...
>> Just a heads-up: don't change roles during times of 
heavy
>> user activity or you may have severe performance 
issues.
>>
>> When you change a role, the MSCRMSEcurityService
>> evidently kicks off a massive job that updates the
>> securitydescriptor field in every record of every major
>> object.  Last time I did this, it attempted to obtain a
>> table lock, and as a result, brought my system to its
>> knees.
>>
>> The process was trying to update 46000+ rows from the
>> annotationbase table (you can see this by looking at 
the
>> last SQL command for the process that is blocking other
>> processes).  Evidently because it had so many rows to
>> work on, it was trying to do it 'effeciently', and grab
>> the whole table, so anything that accessed Notes (i.e.
>> practically everything) started timing out.
>>
>> Has anybody run across this, and found some setting in
>> SQL Server that will stop CRM from taking the system to
>> its knees?  Thanks,
>>
>> Dave
>> davidlcarr_removebetweenunderscores_@earthlink.net
>
>
>.
>
0
Dave
3/2/2004 11:29:51 PM
By the way, the support rep I talked to said one other 
customer had this issue, and it took a DAY and a HALF for 
the process to complete...

>-----Original Message-----
>Not much you can do Dave, it's the way it's designed.
>
>Mike
>
>greaterthantwo media
>Printable Quotes, Orders and Invoices, with line-item 
details, now available
>for MSCRM.
>http://www.greaterthantwo.com
>
>
>"Dave Carr" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote 
in message
>news:4e5801c3fff3$dd640000$a501280a@phx.gbl...
>> Just a heads-up: don't change roles during times of 
heavy
>> user activity or you may have severe performance 
issues.
>>
>> When you change a role, the MSCRMSEcurityService
>> evidently kicks off a massive job that updates the
>> securitydescriptor field in every record of every major
>> object.  Last time I did this, it attempted to obtain a
>> table lock, and as a result, brought my system to its
>> knees.
>>
>> The process was trying to update 46000+ rows from the
>> annotationbase table (you can see this by looking at 
the
>> last SQL command for the process that is blocking other
>> processes).  Evidently because it had so many rows to
>> work on, it was trying to do it 'effeciently', and grab
>> the whole table, so anything that accessed Notes (i.e.
>> practically everything) started timing out.
>>
>> Has anybody run across this, and found some setting in
>> SQL Server that will stop CRM from taking the system to
>> its knees?  Thanks,
>>
>> Dave
>> davidlcarr_removebetweenunderscores_@earthlink.net
>
>
>.
>
0
Dave
3/2/2004 11:31:27 PM
Good rant Dave ;)

Mike


"Dave Carr" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:5a6f01c400ae$428a83e0$a301280a@phx.gbl...
> Unbelievable.  Warning to everyone - do NOT make massive
> changes to roles in production!!!  MS Support is
> supposedly working on a private hotfix for this as we
> speak, and let me tell you - you do NOT want to suffer
> this performance hit...
>
> Some additional info: when you change a role, it inserts
> a row (each circle I believe creates one role) into the
> RolePrivileges table and the triggers in there kick off
> an incredible number of update statements.
>
> It goes through EVERY table (that has a
> securitydescriptor field in it) BU by BU, and, evidently
> in a cursor loop, does one update for every single
> record.  Talk about a monstrosity.
>
> ___FULL RANT ON___
>
> When will people - even the sometimes brilliant MS
> developers - learn: when you violate the rules of data
> normalization in a transaction system, it will come back
> to bite you EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!
>
> This securitydescriptor has got to go.  I know it was
> done for performance reason, but it doesn't seem like
> it's working too well to me right now!  They sacrificed
> some small performance hit for each transaction for a
> HUGE, SYSTEM KILLING hit when you do something as crazy
> as change a role!
>
> I know the securitydescriptor contains some brilliant
> Phd's encryption algorithm that encapsulates all of the
> role and privilege stuff, but I have to tell ya, it was
> the wrong design.
>
> I have to believe if they used the relational database
> the way it was supposed to be used, and created a view
> that encapsulated all of the joins to get the security
> descriptor information as it exists now, you wouldn't
> need this monstrosity that updates each and every row of
> every freakin' table each time you make a role change!!!!
>
> In my dreams, everybody who signed off on this killer of
> a design has to write this 1000 times on the blackboard:
>
> DO _not_ _EVER_ DENORMALIZE TRANSACTION SYSTEM TABLES
> DO _not_ _EVER_ DENORMALIZE TRANSACTION SYSTEM TABLES
> DO _not_ _EVER_ DENORMALIZE TRANSACTION SYSTEM TABLES
> DO _not_ _EVER_ DENORMALIZE TRANSACTION SYSTEM TABLES
> DO _not_ _EVER_ DENORMALIZE TRANSACTION SYSTEM TABLES
> DO _not_ _EVER_ DENORMALIZE TRANSACTION SYSTEM TABLES
>
> Arghhh!!!!!!
>
> -- Rant mode off --- 
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Not much you can do Dave, it's the way it's designed.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >greaterthantwo media
> >Printable Quotes, Orders and Invoices, with line-item
> details, now available
> >for MSCRM.
> >http://www.greaterthantwo.com
> >
> >
> >"Dave Carr" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
> in message
> >news:4e5801c3fff3$dd640000$a501280a@phx.gbl...
> >> Just a heads-up: don't change roles during times of
> heavy
> >> user activity or you may have severe performance
> issues.
> >>
> >> When you change a role, the MSCRMSEcurityService
> >> evidently kicks off a massive job that updates the
> >> securitydescriptor field in every record of every major
> >> object.  Last time I did this, it attempted to obtain a
> >> table lock, and as a result, brought my system to its
> >> knees.
> >>
> >> The process was trying to update 46000+ rows from the
> >> annotationbase table (you can see this by looking at
> the
> >> last SQL command for the process that is blocking other
> >> processes).  Evidently because it had so many rows to
> >> work on, it was trying to do it 'effeciently', and grab
> >> the whole table, so anything that accessed Notes (i.e.
> >> practically everything) started timing out.
> >>
> >> Has anybody run across this, and found some setting in
> >> SQL Server that will stop CRM from taking the system to
> >> its knees?  Thanks,
> >>
> >> Dave
> >> davidlcarr_removebetweenunderscores_@earthlink.net
> >
> >
> >.
> >


0
GreaterThanTwo
3/3/2004 4:51:39 PM
:-)

Like everyone else I thought that you could fine tune security over time to
get it right. I decided to go through each of my roles and make one
change...of course after changing 3 roles i noticed the server was a bit
busy :-)

A call into Microsoft confirmed the issue and a support doc has been written
highlighting it but if i had gone through and made all the changes we were
intending to do we would have been in trouble.











"Dave Carr" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:5a7101c400ae$7bd654d0$a301280a@phx.gbl...
> By the way, the support rep I talked to said one other
> customer had this issue, and it took a DAY and a HALF for
> the process to complete...
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Not much you can do Dave, it's the way it's designed.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >greaterthantwo media
> >Printable Quotes, Orders and Invoices, with line-item
> details, now available
> >for MSCRM.
> >http://www.greaterthantwo.com
> >
> >
> >"Dave Carr" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
> in message
> >news:4e5801c3fff3$dd640000$a501280a@phx.gbl...
> >> Just a heads-up: don't change roles during times of
> heavy
> >> user activity or you may have severe performance
> issues.
> >>
> >> When you change a role, the MSCRMSEcurityService
> >> evidently kicks off a massive job that updates the
> >> securitydescriptor field in every record of every major
> >> object.  Last time I did this, it attempted to obtain a
> >> table lock, and as a result, brought my system to its
> >> knees.
> >>
> >> The process was trying to update 46000+ rows from the
> >> annotationbase table (you can see this by looking at
> the
> >> last SQL command for the process that is blocking other
> >> processes).  Evidently because it had so many rows to
> >> work on, it was trying to do it 'effeciently', and grab
> >> the whole table, so anything that accessed Notes (i.e.
> >> practically everything) started timing out.
> >>
> >> Has anybody run across this, and found some setting in
> >> SQL Server that will stop CRM from taking the system to
> >> its knees?  Thanks,
> >>
> >> Dave
> >> davidlcarr_removebetweenunderscores_@earthlink.net
> >
> >
> >.
> >


0
John
3/3/2004 7:00:18 PM
Reply:

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Make the icon in the system tray for Outlook change when you have.
You have to physically open outlook to know if you have a new e-mail. Thats annoying. The system tray icon should show you whats happening in an unobtrusive fashion (i.e. no blinking) just change the icon to something new. No you don't; you will get an envelope in the Notification Area when a new e-mail arrives. If you don't see this icon; http://www.howto-outlook.com/faq/missingenvelope.htm -- Robert Sparnaaij [MVP-Outlook] www.howto-outlook.com Tips of the month: -What do the Outlook Icons Mean? -Create an Office 2003 CD slipstreamed with Service Pack 1 ----- "Kasmoie&...

change default font when reading message
I am using Outlook 2003, use word for editor and reading of rich text and I compose in HTML When I read messages i want to change the default font to a larger size. I have done tool>option>mailformat>startionary and fonts but emails from outside my network come thorugh with changes and emails from inside the network do not. Any suggestions other than select all and then tool>option>mailformat>startionary and fonts Thanks Steve ...