racking / Logging User(s) Who Crashed Database

First, I would like to thank everyone in advance for all their posts 
previously; I've found numerous tips and explanations that has vastly helped 
me and my database.  Thanks so much!  :)

Secondly, please accept my apologies if I posted this message in the wrong 
thread; I wasn't sure where the best place to post it so I opted for the best 
one - General.  :)


What I'd like to accomplish, and I couldn't find anything in regards to this 
after a few hours of searching through here, is how to track the user(s) who 
do not exit properly and crashes the database (I get the error that states 
the database needs to be repaired and that it was most likely from a user who 
exited illegally.)

I can't tell you how many times I've gone to each user and spent time 
explaining how to close out properly (each form has a return to previous menu 
button, and a close application button) but someone, or some people, are just 
not caring what they're doing (thinking they can get away with it) and I'm 
constantly having to back up the database and repairing it.  I always do the 
backup at least twice a day; I don't have a problem with it, but it's doing 
it six times a day because someone keeps exiting improperly that is driving 
me insane.

I am almost 100% sure there's a way to do this - Any help, point in the 
right direction, anything, I would most definitely be grateful for!!!  :)

BTW - This is not a front-end, back-end database (I haven't learned all 
about those yet....) and the database is on a shared network.
0
Utf
10/28/2007 6:20:00 PM
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Hi.

> BTW - This is not a front-end, back-end database (I haven't learned all
> about those yet....) and the database is on a shared network.

Here's your problem.  The Microsoft Access development team has identified 
sharing a multiuser database across the network as the number one cause of 
database corruption.  Split your database into a front end (forms, queries, 
modules, et cetera) and back end (tables and relationships), then place the 
back end on the shared networked server and a copy of the front end 
distributed to each user's workstation, and you'll breathe a lot easier.

For more information on split databases, please see the following Web page:

http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/gem_tips1.html

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
Blogs: www.DataDevilDog.BlogSpot.com, www.DatabaseTips.BlogSpot.com
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact 
info.


0
69
10/28/2007 6:34:57 PM
On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 11:20:00 -0700, Vylent Fyre
<VylentFyre@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

Racking the users might violate various state and federal laws; flogging is an
alternative but it also has problems.

>BTW - This is not a front-end, back-end database (I haven't learned all 
>about those yet....) and the database is on a shared network.

Splitting your database is going to be much more beneficial for employee
morale, as well as for the well-being of your database.

             John W. Vinson [MVP]
0
John
10/28/2007 8:05:41 PM
Vylent Fyre <VylentFyre@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>BTW - This is not a front-end, back-end database (I haven't learned all 
>about those yet....) and the database is on a shared network.

1) As Gunny states, you really, really want to split the database.  A
link to a page n my website with some additional information and a
helpful utility.

See the "Splitting your app into a front end and back end Tips" page
at http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/splitapp/ for more info.  See the
Auto FE Updater downloads page
http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/autofe.htm to make this relatively
painless..   The utility also supports Terminal Server/Citrix quite
nicely.

2) I created the following web page Tracking users entering and
exiting Microsoft Access Front End
http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/tracking_users_entering_and_exit.htm

Tony
-- 
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
   Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can 
read the entire thread of messages.
   Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at 
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
   Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
0
Tony
10/28/2007 9:15:43 PM
> BTW - This is not a front-end, back-end database (I haven't learned all
> about those yet....) and the database is on a shared network.

Change that ASAP. Access files are not intended to be used by multiple 
people simultaneously unless they have been properly set up as front end & 
backend files. The fact that your database is being used in a manner never 
intended (and specifically warned against) is the most likely cause of the 
file corruption, not the action of any specific user.

AFTER that is done, you could add a "usage log" to your backend and capture 
the networkID and timestamp of every login and logout (capturing the logout 
is a little tricky, but only a little).  If you still have corruption 
problems once your db is split you can look at this file and look for users 
who logged in but not out. Those people either exited improperly (using 
CTRL-ALT-DELETE) or were logged in when their app (or machine) crashed, 
thereby narrowing down your list of "suspects".  I actually used this method 
once to identify a "bad user" that seemed to be the cause of a corrupted 
file.  When approached, the user told me when he entered some very specific 
values into a form, the app hung and he had no choice but to use TaskManager 
to shut down the app. I tested the values and sure enough the app entered an 
endless loop I would never have expected. So the "bad user" actually did 
nothing wrong and ended up helping me fix a major bug.

HTH,



"Vylent Fyre" <VylentFyre@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:05CC5192-F82E-4300-AEF2-C11C42B7E6EC@microsoft.com...
> First, I would like to thank everyone in advance for all their posts
> previously; I've found numerous tips and explanations that has vastly 
> helped
> me and my database.  Thanks so much!  :)
>
> Secondly, please accept my apologies if I posted this message in the wrong
> thread; I wasn't sure where the best place to post it so I opted for the 
> best
> one - General.  :)
>
>
> What I'd like to accomplish, and I couldn't find anything in regards to 
> this
> after a few hours of searching through here, is how to track the user(s) 
> who
> do not exit properly and crashes the database (I get the error that states
> the database needs to be repaired and that it was most likely from a user 
> who
> exited illegally.)
>
> I can't tell you how many times I've gone to each user and spent time
> explaining how to close out properly (each form has a return to previous 
> menu
> button, and a close application button) but someone, or some people, are 
> just
> not caring what they're doing (thinking they can get away with it) and I'm
> constantly having to back up the database and repairing it.  I always do 
> the
> backup at least twice a day; I don't have a problem with it, but it's 
> doing
> it six times a day because someone keeps exiting improperly that is 
> driving
> me insane.
>
> I am almost 100% sure there's a way to do this - Any help, point in the
> right direction, anything, I would most definitely be grateful for!!!  :)
>
> BTW - This is not a front-end, back-end database (I haven't learned all
> about those yet....) and the database is on a shared network. 


0
George
10/28/2007 9:21:49 PM
"George Nicholson" <GeorgeNJunk@Junkmsn.com> wrote in
news:epF#PiaGIHA.4956@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl: 

> Access files are not intended to be used by multiple 
> people simultaneously unless they have been properly set up as
> front end & backend files.

More specifically:

Access objects do not share well.

Jet objects share quite well.

That means:

Share:
  tables
  queries

Do not share:
  forms
  reports
  macros
  modules

On a practical basis, this means your back end has tables, and your
front end everything else. 

-- 
David W. Fenton                  http://www.dfenton.com/ 
usenet at dfenton dot com    http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
0
David
10/29/2007 8:50:11 PM
Thank you for your response!

I think my biggest concern, aside from my ignorance on the FE and BE 
situation, is the fact that I have so many users across the country that 
access this database.  How am I going to get a copy of the FE database on 
everyone's personal computer?  The database is already approaching 1 gig; I'm 
sure it'll drop dramatically once I split it, though.

I need to take all these notes home and go through it to make sure I 
understand BE and FE 100% - Ignorance produces even more complications :)

Thanks again!!

"'69 Camaro" wrote:

> Hi.
> 
> > BTW - This is not a front-end, back-end database (I haven't learned all
> > about those yet....) and the database is on a shared network.
> 
> Here's your problem.  The Microsoft Access development team has identified 
> sharing a multiuser database across the network as the number one cause of 
> database corruption.  Split your database into a front end (forms, queries, 
> modules, et cetera) and back end (tables and relationships), then place the 
> back end on the shared networked server and a copy of the front end 
> distributed to each user's workstation, and you'll breathe a lot easier.
> 
> For more information on split databases, please see the following Web page:
> 
> http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/gem_tips1.html
> 
> HTH.
> Gunny
> 
> See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
> See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
> Blogs: www.DataDevilDog.BlogSpot.com, www.DatabaseTips.BlogSpot.com
> http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact 
> info.
> 
> 
> 
0
Utf
10/29/2007 10:16:19 PM
Hi.

> I have so many users across the country that
> access this database.
.. . .
> The database is already approaching 1 gig

A 1 GB Access database on a WAN?!!!  Oooooh, the pain . . . .

> How am I going to get a copy of the FE database on
> everyone's personal computer?

Use Access MVP Tony Toews's free AutoFE utility to automatically replace 
updated front ends on the user's hard drive whenever the user opens the 
database file.  Please see the following Web page:

http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/autofe.htm

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
Blogs: www.DataDevilDog.BlogSpot.com, www.DatabaseTips.BlogSpot.com
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact 
info.


0
69
10/29/2007 10:34:46 PM
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:16:19 -0700, Vylent Fyre
<VylentFyre@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>I think my biggest concern, aside from my ignorance on the FE and BE 
>situation, is the fact that I have so many users across the country that 
>access this database.

YIPE!!!!

Stop. Do not pass GO, do not collect vast numbers of database corruptions.

Access is a wonderful program, and it *can* be used over a WAN (wide area
network) - but it cannot be used safely or reliably over a WAN. It's just not
designed for it. Using a single unitary database remotely is dangerous; using
a split database with a frontend in Boston and a backend in Dallas (or
equivalent) is *even worse*.

You should very seriously consider using another option:

- a terminal server approach, with the backend and multiple frontends on the
same machine (or the same fast stable LAN); users would connect to the machine
using Windows Terminal Server, Citrix, or similar.
- A SQL/Server backend with ODBC connections from the users' machines. This
may require some redesign.
- A web solution (with a SQL, MySQL, or other client-server database and a
webpage programmed to interact with it).

What you're doing is the source of your frequent corruptions, and is asking
for trouble!

             John W. Vinson [MVP]
0
John
10/30/2007 1:51:30 AM
Total agreement.

Addition:
    (As I understand it) Even though queries do "share well", they are 
customarily placed in the front end because (once you've set up local front 
ends and a shared network backend), that's the location that makes the most 
(only?) sense from a network bandwidth persepective.


HTH,


"David W. Fenton" <XXXusenet@dfenton.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:Xns99D8AA9C0D6A7f99a49ed1d0c49c5bbb2@216.196.97.142...
> "George Nicholson" <GeorgeNJunk@Junkmsn.com> wrote in
> news:epF#PiaGIHA.4956@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:
>
>> Access files are not intended to be used by multiple
>> people simultaneously unless they have been properly set up as
>> front end & backend files.
>
> More specifically:
>
> Access objects do not share well.
>
> Jet objects share quite well.
>
> That means:
>
> Share:
>  tables
>  queries
>
> Do not share:
>  forms
>  reports
>  macros
>  modules
>
> On a practical basis, this means your back end has tables, and your
> front end everything else.
>
> -- 
> David W. Fenton                  http://www.dfenton.com/
> usenet at dfenton dot com    http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/ 


0
George
10/30/2007 8:08:55 PM
Reply:

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