Does table size make a difference in how well Access protects data

I am having a problem that has been going on for several weeks now. I am 
slowly trying to figure it out. the problem is that Access 2003 keeps 
deleting records after they are entered. Quick view of database: running 
Access 2k3 back end and frontends, 12 machines access the DB at any one time, 
mixture of Win2k Pro and Win XP pro all patches and service packs installed 
for all OS's as well as Access 2k3. Running Client/server set up controlled 
by Small Business Server 2k3. database resides on a machine running XP Pro. 
when new orders are entered into the system, the DB will tell the dataentry 
person that "Update or cancel without add new record." then it delets the 
record. My question is this: Does the size (number of fields) in a table have 
an affect on the Databases operation? 
My main table has 77 fields in it , there are  71 tables in the database 
also in the main table there are 295,292 records the size of the database is 
1,396,712KB. I am wanting to move to SQL but hesitate until I can solve this 
Deleting problem. 
Thanks in advance for any assistance. I apologize for the lengthy post.
0
Utf
1/14/2008 3:05:00 AM
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On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:05:00 -0800, jmillerWV
<jmillerWV@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>I am having a problem that has been going on for several weeks now. I am 
>slowly trying to figure it out. the problem is that Access 2003 keeps 
>deleting records after they are entered. 

I have never ONCE seen an Access database spontaneously delete records.

I've seen index corruption cause records to not be found; this can be
corrected by compacting. I've seen forms and code that delete records -
correctly on the basis of how the code was written but not what the
user/developer intended. I've seen users who were not aware that deleting
records in a query caused records in the table to be deleted... but again,
I've never seen Access deleting records on its own.

>Quick view of database: running 
>Access 2k3 back end and frontends, 12 machines access the DB at any one time, 
>mixture of Win2k Pro and Win XP pro all patches and service packs installed 
>for all OS's as well as Access 2k3. Running Client/server set up controlled 
>by Small Business Server 2k3. database resides on a machine running XP Pro. 
>when new orders are entered into the system, the DB will tell the dataentry 
>person that "Update or cancel without add new record." then it delets the 
>record. 

What's the context? What's the rest of the message? Is it from code in a form,
or a native Access message? If it's code, would you be willing to post the
code? Are these the only records being deleted?

>My question is this: Does the size (number of fields) in a table have 
>an affect on the Databases operation? 

Not in my experience.

>My main table has 77 fields in it , there are  71 tables in the database 
>also in the main table there are 295,292 records the size of the database is 
>1,396,712KB. 

77 fields is *very* wide, but I've heard of wider tables that worked
correctly. I'm assuming that you've normalized it as well as practical?

>I am wanting to move to SQL but hesitate until I can solve this 
>Deleting problem. 

If there is code or some other problem in the frontend causing the deletion,
then moving the data storage to SQL won't help.

>Thanks in advance for any assistance. I apologize for the lengthy post.

             John W. Vinson [MVP]
0
John
1/14/2008 4:37:33 AM
"jmillerWV" <jmillerWV@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:C2A5AF81-0B6F-4615-99AB-1C6369245547@microsoft.com...

>I am having a problem that has been going on for several weeks now. I am
> slowly trying to figure it out. the problem is that Access 2003 keeps
> deleting records after they are entered. Quick view of database: running
> Access 2k3 back end and frontend

The above sounds correct, so we assume that the front ends are installed on 
EACH computer. You might for reliability purposes ensure that it's an mde in 
place of a mdb used for the front end.

> for all OS's as well as Access 2k3. Running Client/server set up 
> controlled
> by Small Business Server 2k3.

I'm not sure what you mean client server setup here, because access is a 
file sharing system. you are not using client and server at this point time.

> database resides on a machine running XP Pro.

Now that seems a bit strange, is there any reason why you don't have a 
shared folder on the server? You do realize if that user reboots the 
machine, has a freeze up or lockup you're going to have data lost at that 
instant?

I guess it is a bit strange That you tell me you followed good procedures 
and you always install the front end on each computer, and then you place 
the back and on a very reliable machine. Now all the sun you're telling me 
that you in fact have a small business server, but if not place the M.D. be 
filed back and on the server? (I guess I'm a bit of a loss here as to why 
the mdb  back end is not placed on this machine?)

> when new orders are entered into the system, the DB will tell the 
> dataentry
> person that "Update or cancel without add new record." then it delets the
> record. My question is this: Does the size (number of fields) in a table 
> have
> an affect on the Databases operation?

I don't think sized to matters much in this case. The range you're talking 
about in the 300,000 record range is NOT that larnge at alll.

Also it's not quite clear how users add records into a table. Is there some 
code involved, or does the user press some button, or do they just open up a 
form that's attached to some big huge table..and then moved to the end to 
add records? (if there's some type of code involved, you might wanna take a 
look at that).

also was was there any change to the system made that occur to the same time 
this problem started to rear its head?

> the size of the database is
> 1,396,712KB.

Now that file size does seem rather large, what is the file size after you 
do a compact and repair? (and while we're at this how often do you run a 
compact and repair on the back end database anyway?).  It looks to me at 
this point that this files not been compacted properly. perhaps you're 
storing pictures inside of the database, and that's useally a bad 
idea...but, that file size seems way to large for that many reocrds...

> I am wanting to move to SQL but hesitate until I can solve this
> Deleting problem.

I assume you're talking about moving the backend data to SQL server, and 
continuing to use MS access as the front end. SQL server certainly more 
reliable, but given the size of data the number uses you have a don't think 
you're reached the point where you really have to move the back end part to 
sql server (however the express editions of SQL server are free these days, 
so they're certainly not a cost issue).


-- 
Albert D. Kallal    (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
pleaseNOOSpamKallal@msn.com


0
Albert
1/14/2008 5:40:47 AM
Thanks for the response, The entire message is "Update or CancelUpdate 
Without AddNew or Edit." it is simple a message box with an "OK" button. 
After the user selects ok then it will come back and inform them "The Record 
is Deleted" and we see "#Deleted" in each of the data fields. 

one other thing that may go along with this, is that sometimes (less often 
then the complete record delete) contents in 2 memo fields will get 
"#deleted". It's not just the fact that the data is deleted but that it 
places "#Deleted" into the field or record. If a person delets the info in a 
field only the data is missing #Deleted is not entered into the field. Same 
way with a record if I or anyone deliberately delete a record then the record 
goes away and there is a hole in the ID column (auto numbering and key) but 
no #deleted in each field.  I compact and repair the db daily after eveyone 
has left for the day. If I have to rebuild the database to insert the missing 
records the the db gets compacted and repaired several times during the 
rebuild process and at the end. I have tried to duplicate the deletions of 
records but am unable to get it to happen. 
Again thank you for the response.

"John W. Vinson" wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:05:00 -0800, jmillerWV
> <jmillerWV@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> 
> >I am having a problem that has been going on for several weeks now. I am 
> >slowly trying to figure it out. the problem is that Access 2003 keeps 
> >deleting records after they are entered. 
> 
> I have never ONCE seen an Access database spontaneously delete records.
> 
> I've seen index corruption cause records to not be found; this can be
> corrected by compacting. I've seen forms and code that delete records -
> correctly on the basis of how the code was written but not what the
> user/developer intended. I've seen users who were not aware that deleting
> records in a query caused records in the table to be deleted... but again,
> I've never seen Access deleting records on its own.
> 
> >Quick view of database: running 
> >Access 2k3 back end and frontends, 12 machines access the DB at any one time, 
> >mixture of Win2k Pro and Win XP pro all patches and service packs installed 
> >for all OS's as well as Access 2k3. Running Client/server set up controlled 
> >by Small Business Server 2k3. database resides on a machine running XP Pro. 
> >when new orders are entered into the system, the DB will tell the dataentry 
> >person that "Update or cancel without add new record." then it delets the 
> >record. 
> 
> What's the context? What's the rest of the message? Is it from code in a form,
> or a native Access message? If it's code, would you be willing to post the
> code? Are these the only records being deleted?
> 
> >My question is this: Does the size (number of fields) in a table have 
> >an affect on the Databases operation? 
> 
> Not in my experience.
> 
> >My main table has 77 fields in it , there are  71 tables in the database 
> >also in the main table there are 295,292 records the size of the database is 
> >1,396,712KB. 
> 
> 77 fields is *very* wide, but I've heard of wider tables that worked
> correctly. I'm assuming that you've normalized it as well as practical?
> 
> >I am wanting to move to SQL but hesitate until I can solve this 
> >Deleting problem. 
> 
> If there is code or some other problem in the frontend causing the deletion,
> then moving the data storage to SQL won't help.
> 
> >Thanks in advance for any assistance. I apologize for the lengthy post.
> 
>              John W. Vinson [MVP]
> 
0
Utf
1/14/2008 2:31:03 PM
Thank you for your response. To help clarify some info you had a question on 
I simple stated the client/server type network to show that we are not 
running a simple network (peer to peer) with just file sharing. Yes I have 
tried running the db on the SBS server but because of the need to work on it 
so much I just thought that until I get the problems solved I would just keep 
it on a seperate machine, for my ease of access. There have been no changes 
made to the system other than moving the back end to Access 2k3. The db is 
compacted and repaired daily after everyone has left. Also whenever I have to 
rebuild the db inorder to fill in the missing records, I compact repair 
several times while rebuilding and again after I am finished. I am not sure 
what you mean by a mde versus a mdb used for the front end?

The file size mentioned is after a complete rebuild and compact and repair. 
I  have even compacted and reapired it twice in a row. There are no pictures 
stored in the db. there are other large tables in our db that we have no 
problems with because dataentery people do not enter data into them, these 
are controlled by managers and they contain client info, pricing lists, and 
other data used by the database for other purposes. Again thanks for the 
response and I hope the additional information helps.
  

"Albert D. Kallal" wrote:

> "jmillerWV" <jmillerWV@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
> news:C2A5AF81-0B6F-4615-99AB-1C6369245547@microsoft.com...
> 
> >I am having a problem that has been going on for several weeks now. I am
> > slowly trying to figure it out. the problem is that Access 2003 keeps
> > deleting records after they are entered. Quick view of database: running
> > Access 2k3 back end and frontend
> 
> The above sounds correct, so we assume that the front ends are installed on 
> EACH computer. You might for reliability purposes ensure that it's an mde in 
> place of a mdb used for the front end.
> 
> > for all OS's as well as Access 2k3. Running Client/server set up 
> > controlled
> > by Small Business Server 2k3.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean client server setup here, because access is a 
> file sharing system. you are not using client and server at this point time.
> 
> > database resides on a machine running XP Pro.
> 
> Now that seems a bit strange, is there any reason why you don't have a 
> shared folder on the server? You do realize if that user reboots the 
> machine, has a freeze up or lockup you're going to have data lost at that 
> instant?
> 
> I guess it is a bit strange That you tell me you followed good procedures 
> and you always install the front end on each computer, and then you place 
> the back and on a very reliable machine. Now all the sun you're telling me 
> that you in fact have a small business server, but if not place the M.D. be 
> filed back and on the server? (I guess I'm a bit of a loss here as to why 
> the mdb  back end is not placed on this machine?)
> 
> > when new orders are entered into the system, the DB will tell the 
> > dataentry
> > person that "Update or cancel without add new record." then it delets the
> > record. My question is this: Does the size (number of fields) in a table 
> > have
> > an affect on the Databases operation?
> 
> I don't think sized to matters much in this case. The range you're talking 
> about in the 300,000 record range is NOT that larnge at alll.
> 
> Also it's not quite clear how users add records into a table. Is there some 
> code involved, or does the user press some button, or do they just open up a 
> form that's attached to some big huge table..and then moved to the end to 
> add records? (if there's some type of code involved, you might wanna take a 
> look at that).
> 
> also was was there any change to the system made that occur to the same time 
> this problem started to rear its head?
> 
> > the size of the database is
> > 1,396,712KB.
> 
> Now that file size does seem rather large, what is the file size after you 
> do a compact and repair? (and while we're at this how often do you run a 
> compact and repair on the back end database anyway?).  It looks to me at 
> this point that this files not been compacted properly. perhaps you're 
> storing pictures inside of the database, and that's useally a bad 
> idea...but, that file size seems way to large for that many reocrds...
> 
> > I am wanting to move to SQL but hesitate until I can solve this
> > Deleting problem.
> 
> I assume you're talking about moving the backend data to SQL server, and 
> continuing to use MS access as the front end. SQL server certainly more 
> reliable, but given the size of data the number uses you have a don't think 
> you're reached the point where you really have to move the back end part to 
> sql server (however the express editions of SQL server are free these days, 
> so they're certainly not a cost issue).
> 
> 
> -- 
> Albert D. Kallal    (Access MVP)
> Edmonton, Alberta Canada
> pleaseNOOSpamKallal@msn.com
> 
> 
> 
0
Utf
1/14/2008 3:12:01 PM
"jmillerWV" <jmillerWV@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:F6DC12AE-F461-4A53-AE28-F1AE9330550A@microsoft.com...

> until I get the problems solved I would just keep
> it on a seperate machine, for my ease of access.

ok...sounds good to me....

> I am not sure
> what you mean by a mde versus a mdb used for the front end?
>

A mde is a compiled and locked version of ms-access. All versions of access 
can create a mde. I talk about mde files here:
http://www.members.shaw.ca/AlbertKallal/Articles/split/index.htm

-- 
Albert D. Kallal    (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
pleaseNOOSpamKallal@msn.com


0
Albert
1/14/2008 7:16:17 PM
Again thank you for your response. I have taken a quick look at the link and 
will study it in more depth this evening. Don't worry about my comment on mde 
versus mdb as I was thinking of something else at the time I wrote that 
comment. Again thanks for your assistance. I will let you know if the link 
helps.

"Albert D. Kallal" wrote:

> "jmillerWV" <jmillerWV@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
> news:F6DC12AE-F461-4A53-AE28-F1AE9330550A@microsoft.com...
> 
> > until I get the problems solved I would just keep
> > it on a seperate machine, for my ease of access.
> 
> ok...sounds good to me....
> 
> > I am not sure
> > what you mean by a mde versus a mdb used for the front end?
> >
> 
> A mde is a compiled and locked version of ms-access. All versions of access 
> can create a mde. I talk about mde files here:
> http://www.members.shaw.ca/AlbertKallal/Articles/split/index.htm
> 
> -- 
> Albert D. Kallal    (Access MVP)
> Edmonton, Alberta Canada
> pleaseNOOSpamKallal@msn.com
> 
> 
> 
0
Utf
1/14/2008 10:14:02 PM
Reply:

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When customers pay by check RMS asks for specific information such as drivers license number, routing number, account number, address and phone number. Does anyone have a report and or a way to extract this info from the database for cases when the check is returned for NSF? Please advise, Scott We can write you this report. Contact me for detail on price . Afshin Alikhani - [ afshin@retailrealm.co.uk ] CEO - Retail Realm = = = = = = = = = = "Scott Santorio" <scott@tt-newyork.com> wrote in message news:e8ZKkR6$HHA.3716@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > When customers pa...

Macro to seperate data
Hi I seem to be struggling to find a macro that will work in previous threads. In sheet 1 is a list of data in columns A:N and the number of rows will vary. It is a list of sales with each sale record ocuppying one row. The salesperson's name is in column C and each salesperson will have multiple entries. What I am trying to do is create a seperate summary sheet in the workbook for each salesperson. Therefore sheets 2 to 20 are templates that already exist with a different salesperson's name entered into cell C3 on each of them. I am trying to find a macro that ...

compact database in VBA access 2007
Hello, I have recently upgrade to office 2007 from office 2003. To compact a database from within the database itself, I used the follwing code. Unfortunately it no longer works in access 2007. Is there some similar code that will work? Public Function FncCompactTheCurrentDB() CommandBars("Menu Bar"). _ Controls("Tools"). _ Controls("Database utilities"). _ Controls("Compact and repair database..."). _ accDoDefaultAction End Function Thank You, SL On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:34:01 -0800, SL <SL@discussions.microsoft....

Need HELP! for Linking data
Could someone please direct me to where I can learn how to link date in a work book. i.e., I have individual pages for each subject but I need the data that is entered in these individual pages to transfer to the Master page without having to manually in put it.........TNX Bubey, There are not too many bits about linking worksheets or workbooks that I can find. But have a look at the links below, in case they give you the information you need. I think it is frustratingly one of those things which is very easy when you know how, or if you can get someone to actually show you, but if you hav...