want to get field value from say the 10th record of a query - how?

I need to make a random selection from a master list based on criteria, so 
some entries in the master won't fit the criteria.

First, I narrow down the master to those entries that DO fit, then I need to 
select from that narrowed list randomly.  

What I WANT to do, is to count the entries that fit the criteria, generate a 
random number RND, between 1 and COUNT, and choose the RNDth record, but I 
don't know how.  I know how to get the first, last, average, .... but not the 
3rd, 10th, 125th etc.

Thanks for being here to put questions to!
Helen :)
0
Utf
2/14/2010 4:34:01 AM
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I must not be understanding the requirement here. I think what if you had a 
random list then the 3, 10, 125 records would not be any more or less random 
than records 1, 2, 3. Maybe all you need to do is sort on the random numbers 
and select the Top 3.


-- 
A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse.


"Helen" wrote:

> I need to make a random selection from a master list based on criteria, so 
> some entries in the master won't fit the criteria.
> 
> First, I narrow down the master to those entries that DO fit, then I need to 
> select from that narrowed list randomly.  
> 
> What I WANT to do, is to count the entries that fit the criteria, generate a 
> random number RND, between 1 and COUNT, and choose the RNDth record, but I 
> don't know how.  I know how to get the first, last, average, .... but not the 
> 3rd, 10th, 125th etc.
> 
> Thanks for being here to put questions to!
> Helen :)
0
Utf
2/14/2010 9:31:01 PM
Hi Helen,

One way you can do that is to select the records that match the criteria 
into a recordset.
Determine how many records are there and use rnd to pick the data positions 
in the recordset.
Then simply use movenext multiple times to position the recordset onto the 
randomly selected records.  You can copy them to a new table and you have 
yourself a random recordset.

Not elegant but it works.

Regards

Kevin

"Helen" <Helen@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:5D141814-CFCF-47E7-A73A-6C1E8A5BCD3C@microsoft.com...
>I need to make a random selection from a master list based on criteria, so
> some entries in the master won't fit the criteria.
>
> First, I narrow down the master to those entries that DO fit, then I need 
> to
> select from that narrowed list randomly.
>
> What I WANT to do, is to count the entries that fit the criteria, generate 
> a
> random number RND, between 1 and COUNT, and choose the RNDth record, but I
> don't know how.  I know how to get the first, last, average, .... but not 
> the
> 3rd, 10th, 125th etc.
>
> Thanks for being here to put questions to!
> Helen :) 


0
kc
2/15/2010 4:29:00 AM
I think you did misunderstand.
Say the MASTER has
ID type   size
1  A       large
2  A       small
3  B       large
4  B       small
but I want a random selection only from "type = A", or from "size = large"
I need to narrow down the list from the master to ONLY A, or ONLY large, 
BEFORE I make the random selection.

"ChrisO" wrote:

> I must not be understanding the requirement here. I think what if you had a 
> random list then the 3, 10, 125 records would not be any more or less random 
> than records 1, 2, 3. Maybe all you need to do is sort on the random numbers 
> and select the Top 3.
> 
> 
> -- 
> A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse.
> 
> 
> "Helen" wrote:
> 
> > I need to make a random selection from a master list based on criteria, so 
> > some entries in the master won't fit the criteria.
> > 
> > First, I narrow down the master to those entries that DO fit, then I need to 
> > select from that narrowed list randomly.  
> > 
> > What I WANT to do, is to count the entries that fit the criteria, generate a 
> > random number RND, between 1 and COUNT, and choose the RNDth record, but I 
> > don't know how.  I know how to get the first, last, average, .... but not the 
> > 3rd, 10th, 125th etc.
> > 
> > Thanks for being here to put questions to!
> > Helen :)
0
Utf
2/16/2010 5:04:01 AM
OK - yes, that's one way, and yes, it's a bit ugly.

I was hoping for something like:
qryFitCriteria    (my query with the records that fit the criteria)
intCount = DCount the number of records in the query
intRandom = random number between 1 and intCount

then I thought/hoped there'd be a function/command I was yet unaware of like:

docmd.gotorecord(intRandom,qryFitCriteria) or
for gotorecord(<number of the record in the query>,<query or table name>)

DLookup(ID,qryFitCriteria,intRandom)
for DLookup(<fieldname>,<query or table name>,<record number>)

I know the above two don't DO that, but.....

Looks like I might have to write my own little procedure to do it, based on 
your suggestion - THANKS for that idea!


"kc-mass" wrote:

> Hi Helen,
> 
> One way you can do that is to select the records that match the criteria 
> into a recordset.
> Determine how many records are there and use rnd to pick the data positions 
> in the recordset.
> Then simply use movenext multiple times to position the recordset onto the 
> randomly selected records.  You can copy them to a new table and you have 
> yourself a random recordset.
> 
> Not elegant but it works.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Kevin
> 
> "Helen" <Helen@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
> news:5D141814-CFCF-47E7-A73A-6C1E8A5BCD3C@microsoft.com...
> >I need to make a random selection from a master list based on criteria, so
> > some entries in the master won't fit the criteria.
> >
> > First, I narrow down the master to those entries that DO fit, then I need 
> > to
> > select from that narrowed list randomly.
> >
> > What I WANT to do, is to count the entries that fit the criteria, generate 
> > a
> > random number RND, between 1 and COUNT, and choose the RNDth record, but I
> > don't know how.  I know how to get the first, last, average, .... but not 
> > the
> > 3rd, 10th, 125th etc.
> >
> > Thanks for being here to put questions to!
> > Helen :) 
> 
> 
> .
> 
0
Utf
2/16/2010 5:13:01 AM
like this maybe:
http://www.mvps.org/access/queries/qry0011.htm

-- 
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/access-modules/201002/1

0
PieterLinden
2/16/2010 5:30:18 AM
Thanks for that idea, but I think there's a problem:

I could potentially have a narrowed list of up to 1000 records (from a 
master of about 5000), and I want just ONE record chosen at random out of 
that 1000 to fit a set of criteria.  There might be 20-odd 'sets' of criteria 
to attend to, so 20 random selections, each being a single random selection 
from a different narrowed list.

The method you linked to is going to randomly choose between just 0 and 1, 
that is, 50/50 chance of selecting the 'next' record, so picking a single 
record that way from a list of ~1000, I'd always tend to get something from 
early on in the list, given that it would start from the top, nevertheless, 
it's given me the seeds of how to go about creating my own function.

Thanks for the input though.


0
Utf
2/16/2010 8:32:01 AM
Hi Helen

There is no concept of record number in Access.  What the suggested
method does is apply the "random number" to the ordinal position of the 
data.

As a thought, what if you made your criteria query into a make table query 
with
an autonumber ID; ran the rnd function against it; built an IN() clause with 
the
results and selected your records with the "IN" function as your "WHERE" 
clause.

I also see that there is a Move(x) function so even the original idea can be 
simplified.

Regards

Kevin


"Helen" <Helen@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:53DE1756-0313-4981-9FAB-2124FF0A423A@microsoft.com...
> OK - yes, that's one way, and yes, it's a bit ugly.
>
> I was hoping for something like:
> qryFitCriteria    (my query with the records that fit the criteria)
> intCount = DCount the number of records in the query
> intRandom = random number between 1 and intCount
>
> then I thought/hoped there'd be a function/command I was yet unaware of 
> like:
>
> docmd.gotorecord(intRandom,qryFitCriteria) or
> for gotorecord(<number of the record in the query>,<query or table name>)
>
> DLookup(ID,qryFitCriteria,intRandom)
> for DLookup(<fieldname>,<query or table name>,<record number>)
>
> I know the above two don't DO that, but.....
>
> Looks like I might have to write my own little procedure to do it, based 
> on
> your suggestion - THANKS for that idea!
>
>
> "kc-mass" wrote:
>
>> Hi Helen,
>>
>> One way you can do that is to select the records that match the criteria
>> into a recordset.
>> Determine how many records are there and use rnd to pick the data 
>> positions
>> in the recordset.
>> Then simply use movenext multiple times to position the recordset onto 
>> the
>> randomly selected records.  You can copy them to a new table and you have
>> yourself a random recordset.
>>
>> Not elegant but it works.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> "Helen" <Helen@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:5D141814-CFCF-47E7-A73A-6C1E8A5BCD3C@microsoft.com...
>> >I need to make a random selection from a master list based on criteria, 
>> >so
>> > some entries in the master won't fit the criteria.
>> >
>> > First, I narrow down the master to those entries that DO fit, then I 
>> > need
>> > to
>> > select from that narrowed list randomly.
>> >
>> > What I WANT to do, is to count the entries that fit the criteria, 
>> > generate
>> > a
>> > random number RND, between 1 and COUNT, and choose the RNDth record, 
>> > but I
>> > don't know how.  I know how to get the first, last, average, .... but 
>> > not
>> > the
>> > 3rd, 10th, 125th etc.
>> >
>> > Thanks for being here to put questions to!
>> > Helen :)
>>
>>
>> .
>> 


0
kc
2/16/2010 9:11:44 PM
Kevin
I've done one version - the trifling one (a single criterion) this way:
The master already has an ID auto-number.
1: find MIN masterID
2: find MAX masterID
3: find RND between them
4: find LowerID = max of masterID (for records that fit criterion) where ID 
<= RND
5: find Higher ID = min of masterID (for records that fit) where ID >= RND
6: use whichever is closer to RND

It's MUCH faster than the previous awkward way I was doing it before.

I'm now working on speeding up the more nuggety version - up to 20 selection 
criteria, could have any or all required to be satisfied, but the same idea 
should work.

Currently the longer one takes almost a minute to spit out results, that's 
why I want something faster!

I'll post my timing results - when I get it done.
0
Utf
2/17/2010 1:00:04 PM
On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:00:04 -0800, Helen <Helen@discussions.microsoft.com>
wrote:

>Kevin
>I've done one version - the trifling one (a single criterion) this way:
>The master already has an ID auto-number.
>1: find MIN masterID
>2: find MAX masterID
>3: find RND between them
>4: find LowerID = max of masterID (for records that fit criterion) where ID 
><= RND
>5: find Higher ID = min of masterID (for records that fit) where ID >= RND
>6: use whichever is closer to RND
>
>It's MUCH faster than the previous awkward way I was doing it before.
>
>I'm now working on speeding up the more nuggety version - up to 20 selection 
>criteria, could have any or all required to be satisfied, but the same idea 
>should work.
>
>Currently the longer one takes almost a minute to spit out results, that's 
>why I want something faster!
>
>I'll post my timing results - when I get it done.

You can use the Top Values property of a query, with help 
from a little VBA. Put this little function into a Module:

Public Function RndNum(vIgnore As Variant) As Double 
Static bRnd As Boolean 
If Not bRnd Then 
  'Initialize the random number generator once only 
   bRnd = True 
   Randomize
End If 
RndNum = Rnd() 
End Function

Then add a calculated field to your Query by typing

Shuffle: RndNum([fieldname])

in a vacant Field cell, where [fieldname] is any field in 
your table - this forces Access to give a different random 
number for each record.

Sort the query by Shuffle, and set its Top Values property 
to the number of records you want to see.

-- 

             John W. Vinson [MVP]
0
John
2/17/2010 5:05:52 PM
Seems to me this should work, and it shouldn't take that long (I haven't
tested this, but the logic seems to fit what you're trying to accomplish,
unless I'm misinterpreting something):

Open a recordset based on your query with all the fields you need, sorted by
masterID. 

Generate your random number with the lower range of 1 and the upper range
   of recordset.RecordCount - this will give you a random record # from 
   your query results, e.g.if there are 300 records that meet your criteria,
then this
   should generate a random number between 1 and 300. I think that you have
to do a MoveLast
   beofre the count is available.

Do a MoveFirst to make sure you're back at the beginning of the recordset.
Use the recordset Move function and move 'n-1' records, where n is your
random number 
   from step 2. This should bring you to your random record. If the random
number is 1 you 
   won't need to do a move, since you'll already be at record 1.

Here's a link that shows how to generate a random number in a given range:

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/access/HA012289011033.aspx

Helen wrote:
>Kevin
>I've done one version - the trifling one (a single criterion) this way:
>The master already has an ID auto-number.
>1: find MIN masterID
>2: find MAX masterID
>3: find RND between them
>4: find LowerID = max of masterID (for records that fit criterion) where ID 
><= RND
>5: find Higher ID = min of masterID (for records that fit) where ID >= RND
>6: use whichever is closer to RND
>
>It's MUCH faster than the previous awkward way I was doing it before.
>
>I'm now working on speeding up the more nuggety version - up to 20 selection 
>criteria, could have any or all required to be satisfied, but the same idea 
>should work.
>
>Currently the longer one takes almost a minute to spit out results, that's 
>why I want something faster!
>
>I'll post my timing results - when I get it done.

-- 
Jim Burke

Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/access-modules/201002/1

0
JimBurke
2/17/2010 10:18:41 PM
' Add a 'SortOrder' field to the table (Single)

Private Sub cmdRand_Click()
    Dim lngTop  As Long
    Dim strType As String
    Dim strSize As String
    Dim strSQL  As String
    
    lngTop = 10
    strType = "B"
    strSize = "Small"
    strSQL = " SELECT TOP " & CStr(lngTop) & " *" & _
             " FROM tblMaster" & _
             " WHERE [Type] = '" & strType & "' And [Size] = '" & strSize & 
"'" & _
             " ORDER BY SortOrder"
    
    ' Randomize the SortOrder field in the table.
    CurrentDb.Execute "UPDATE tblMaster SET SortOrder = 1000000 * 
Rnd([ID])", 128
    
    ' Apply it to a sub form.
    Me.ctlSub.Form.RecordSource = strSQL
    
    ' Or open a recordset.
    With CurrentDb.OpenRecordset(strSQL)
        Do Until .EOF
            ' Do
            ' your
            ' thing
            .MoveNext
        Loop
        .Close
    End With

End Sub

-- 
A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse.


"Helen" wrote:

> Kevin
> I've done one version - the trifling one (a single criterion) this way:
> The master already has an ID auto-number.
> 1: find MIN masterID
> 2: find MAX masterID
> 3: find RND between them
> 4: find LowerID = max of masterID (for records that fit criterion) where ID 
> <= RND
> 5: find Higher ID = min of masterID (for records that fit) where ID >= RND
> 6: use whichever is closer to RND
> 
> It's MUCH faster than the previous awkward way I was doing it before.
> 
> I'm now working on speeding up the more nuggety version - up to 20 selection 
> criteria, could have any or all required to be satisfied, but the same idea 
> should work.
> 
> Currently the longer one takes almost a minute to spit out results, that's 
> why I want something faster!
> 
> I'll post my timing results - when I get it done.
0
Utf
2/18/2010 1:51:02 AM
Looks likes I've piqued some interest in solving my problem, but STOP 
SUGGESTING NOW.  Although,.......... the attention has been kind of nice ;)

I've done the big one - test run done on 10 records.
Each record needs a random selection from the master chosen for it, with a 
different set of 20 criteria for each of the 10.
The old (and hideously ugly) way, took 90 seconds.

The new way?  About 8 seconds!
Used the same idea as the short way I posted earlier.

Thanks for all the input!!
0
Utf
2/18/2010 6:47:01 AM
Reply:

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View -> Sized With Window (for Excel charts): I want it back, plea
While I appreciate that not every function survives from one version to the next, this is one I sorely miss ! I use Excel 2003 at work, and 2007 at home. I can stand the constant bleating about compatability. I can even (barely) tolerate the highlight colors not matching. But this? Why oh why was it removed? Can you at least recommend a macro / VBA script patch to reurn this functionality to the program ? ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" b...

Pivot Table 2007 display field only in Grand Total
Dear Excel experts, I have a Pivot Table (Excel 2007). As an example, the table consists of two Colum Labels (Expense 1 and Expense 2). Values under the Column Labels are Actual Expense, Budget and Full Year budget. All Values (Actual Expense, Budget and Full Year budget) are totaled in the Grand Total. However, Management want to see Full Year Budget only in Grand Total (not under Expenses 1 and Expense 2). I was manually hiding those values. Is there a way to automate this? Thanks ...

Getting started with GP10.0
So, now I've installed it, what do I do? If I open the application, I get a list of servers (means nothing to me) and a username and password box. Again, I haven't a clue what I could put in here. Is this software supposed to be for lay-people? It seems horribly complex if you're not a programmer. Where is your reseller? You need a good VAR to help you implement this product. I don't know of any product in the price range of Dynamics GP that is "super-friendly" the first time you use it. A good rule of the thumb: more functionality = more complexity. -- Japhe...

Two different values in a single cell...
Hi, Is it possible to have two different values (coming from another sheet) in a single cell? For example, 0.87 (0.97) In that case 0.87 comes from a cell on sheet1 and 0.97 from a cell on sheet2. Thanks for the help. Patrick, Hi You can concatenate two results into one cell. This makes it inot a text cell, however, so you cannot do maths on it quite so easily. To join the info, just use the CONCATENATE function, or the & sign =A2&" " &A3 You may also need the TEXT funtion, depending on what format you want the result to be -- Andy. "Patrick" <an...

How do I get rid of this error?
Outlook 2000 I get an error after Outlook runs for a few minutes.... I ran Office repair, removed Office and reinstalled, formatted the and reinstalled the OS and apps....but I still get the error: OUTLOOK.exe has generated errors and will be closed by Windows. You will need to restart the program. An error log is being generated. First of all, I don't know where the error log is....it must be a windows error log. Any ideas? Thanks. Sorry for the post....there's a kb article on this. "SAC" <sac@sac.com> wrote in message news:uYgXneUPGHA.3260@TK2MSFTNGP11...

searching for a given record
I have to think there is a very easy way to do this, but I've been struggling for a couple of days now and I could use some help. All I want to do is search for a particular record using a form. I don't want my users to have to right click and even think about filters or anything like that. I want them to be able to type in a partial name and press a button on the form and have the matching records pulled into the form. What's the best way to accomplish this? --b Open the relevant form in design mode and make some room in the form's header. With the wizards enabled, draw ...