Sure delete

I'm using this good utility to definitely erase the free space of my HD. Now 
I'd like to ask 2 questions:
1) I'm sure the free space of my HD is unrecoverable, but do existing files 
keep any track of the former data recorded in their physical sectors? 
Namely, before I ran Sure Delete the free sectors were currently re-used to 
record new or modified files, so perhaps they have been recorded only 1,2 or 
3 times and so some highlevel recovery utility would be able to recover 
their previous content. I guess there would need an utility "normalising" 
the voltage level of o's and 1's in existing files in order to definitely 
cancel the previous content - maybe this utility exists? Perhaps I could do 
this way: I could copy each file and then erase it by Sure Delete, indeed 
this is very time consuming but I think it could work. Or perhaps I could 
record an iso imagine of my HD, then format and restore it? Does formatting 
cancel any track of the previous content?
2) Does anyone know how to run Sure Delete from a line command, by 
specifying file(s) to be deleted and number of passes?
TIA
il barbi 


0
il
12/5/2009 7:26:51 PM
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il barbi wrote:
> I'm using this good utility to definitely erase the free space of my HD. Now 
> I'd like to ask 2 questions:
> 1) I'm sure the free space of my HD is unrecoverable, but do existing files 
> keep any track of the former data recorded in their physical sectors? 
> Namely, before I ran Sure Delete the free sectors were currently re-used to 
> record new or modified files, so perhaps they have been recorded only 1,2 or 
> 3 times and so some highlevel recovery utility would be able to recover 
> their previous content. I guess there would need an utility "normalising" 
> the voltage level of o's and 1's in existing files in order to definitely 
> cancel the previous content - maybe this utility exists? Perhaps I could do 
> this way: I could copy each file and then erase it by Sure Delete, indeed 
> this is very time consuming but I think it could work. Or perhaps I could 
> record an iso imagine of my HD, then format and restore it? Does formatting 
> cancel any track of the previous content?
> 2) Does anyone know how to run Sure Delete from a line command, by 
> specifying file(s) to be deleted and number of passes?

I don't know about command line options for Sure Delete but I can assure 
you that no one has ever been able to recover files on a securely wiped 
drive.

John
0
John
12/5/2009 7:47:37 PM
The files can be recovered by professional recovery people even if you use Sure 
Delete. Ask any law enforcement or intelligence agency. The only way you can get rid 
of your files on the hard Disk permanently is to destroy the disk  physically

-- 
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"il barbi" <angeieri.barboggi@ngi.it> wrote in message 
news:OH0bpDedKHA.6096@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> I'm using this good utility to definitely erase the free space of my HD. Now I'd 
> like to ask 2 questions:
> 1) I'm sure the free space of my HD is unrecoverable, but do existing files keep 
> any track of the former data recorded in their physical sectors? Namely, before I 
> ran Sure Delete the free sectors were currently re-used to record new or modified 
> files, so perhaps they have been recorded only 1,2 or 3 times and so some 
> highlevel recovery utility would be able to recover their previous content. I 
> guess there would need an utility "normalising" the voltage level of o's and 1's 
> in existing files in order to definitely cancel the previous content - maybe this 
> utility exists? Perhaps I could do this way: I could copy each file and then erase 
> it by Sure Delete, indeed this is very time consuming but I think it could work. 
> Or perhaps I could record an iso imagine of my HD, then format and restore it? 
> Does formatting cancel any track of the previous content?
> 2) Does anyone know how to run Sure Delete from a line command, by specifying 
> file(s) to be deleted and number of passes?
> TIA
> il barbi
> 

0
Peter
12/5/2009 7:48:42 PM
John John - MVP wrote:
> Peter Foldes wrote:
>> The files can be recovered by professional recovery people even if you 
>> use Sure Delete. Ask any law enforcement or intelligence agency. The 
>> only way you can get rid of your files on the hard Disk permanently is 
>> to destroy the disk  physically
> 
> Citations please.
> 
> Can be filed under "Urban Myths.
> 
> John

The answer differs over the various generations of disks. Modern
drives have switched to perpendicular recording, and many aspects
of the design have changed. The effectiveness of MFM changes with
them.

For a comment on data recovery of erased modern drives, see this article.

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/secure_del.html

   "Any modern drive will most likely be a hopeless task, what
    with ultra-high densities and use of perpendicular recording
    I don't see how MFM would even get a usable image, and then
    the use of EPRML will mean that even if you could magically
    transfer some sort of image into a file, the ability to decode
    that to recover the original data would be quite challenging.
    OTOH if you're going to use the mid-90s technology that I
    talked about, low-density MFM or (1,7) RLL, you could do it
    with the right equipment, but why bother? Others have already
    done it, and even if you reproduced it, you'd just have done
    something with technology that hasn't been used for ten years.
    This is why I've never updated my paper (I've had a number of
    requests), there doesn't seem to be much more to be said about
    the topic."

    (MFM is Magnetic Force Microscopy)

So the only place you'll see data recovered on an erased
modern 1TB hard drive, is on the CSI TV series. And it only
takes them 30 seconds to do it :-)

  Paul
0
Paul
12/6/2009 2:45:05 AM
Peter Foldes wrote:
> The files can be recovered by professional recovery people even if you 
> use Sure Delete. Ask any law enforcement or intelligence agency. The 
> only way you can get rid of your files on the hard Disk permanently is 
> to destroy the disk  physically

Citations please.

Can be filed under "Urban Myths.

John
0
John
12/7/2009 1:09:06 AM
Paul wrote:
> John John - MVP wrote:
>> Peter Foldes wrote:
>>> The files can be recovered by professional recovery people even if 
>>> you use Sure Delete. Ask any law enforcement or intelligence agency. 
>>> The only way you can get rid of your files on the hard Disk 
>>> permanently is to destroy the disk  physically
>>
>> Citations please.
>>
>> Can be filed under "Urban Myths.
>>
>> John
> 
> The answer differs over the various generations of disks. Modern
> drives have switched to perpendicular recording, and many aspects
> of the design have changed. The effectiveness of MFM changes with
> them.
> 
> For a comment on data recovery of erased modern drives, see this article.
> 
> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/secure_del.html

Yes, I have seen and read that.  I have had an email conversation with 
Dr. Gutmann and he has told me that he was never able to recover data 
with the method that he had advanced, even on these old drives he 
couldn't do it.  His research was completely misinterpreted by some who 
then ran with it and proclaimed that data recovery was possible on 
overwritten drives.  It just never happened, and the purpose of his 
paper was not to develop a data recovery method but to securely erase 
data and foil any data recovery attempts, read in his epilogue:

"Another point that a number of readers seem to have missed is that this 
paper doesn't present a data-recovery solution but a data-deletion 
solution. In other words it points out in its problem statement that 
there is a potential risk, and then the body of the paper explores the 
means of mitigating that risk."

He himself has never been able to recover data using the theoretical 
"potential risk" that he advanced and nobody else was ever able to do  it.

Reading Charles H Sobeys's paper will put some of the misconceptions to 
rest:

Recovering Unrecoverable Data - The Need for Drive-Independant Data Recovery
http://www.actionfront.com/ts_whitepaper.aspx


> So the only place you'll see data recovered on an erased
> modern 1TB hard drive, is on the CSI TV series. And it only
> takes them 30 seconds to do it :-)

Indeed, it all falls in the realm of urban legends.  Your CSI reference 
is interesting, we have the same opinion.  See one of my posts here:

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support/msg/bf90b516a3ae3fd2?&q=audetweld+csi

John
0
John
12/7/2009 1:13:34 PM
Reply:

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