I want to change from NTFS to FAT32

I just bought a used computer, complete with a licensed copy of
Windows XP Pro SP3.  I bought the computer from a guy who bought a
whole batch of them from some office and was reselling them.  They
came with a legal license serial number on the computer for XP Pro.
He wiped the drive and resinstalled XP along with some other licensed
commercial stuff and some freeware.  All in all, what I got was a
ready to run computer, including everything except the monitor.

I have never owned XP, and was still using Win98 and Win2000 mostly
because of a slow computer and the fact I did not want to purchase XP.
Instead, I bought the whole computer which is 3 times faster than my
old one, for what I would have paid for XP. 

But there is one problem.  He installed it using the NTFS format.  I
DO NOT want NTFS.  (Two reasons, 1. I still use some dos software, 2.
NTFS scares me, because if Windows fails on Fat32, I can still access
the data from Dos, but I know far too many people who lost all their
data when a NTFS partition failed.  I know that XP will run almost as
well on a Fat32 partition  (just like my Win2000 works fine on Fat32).

IF I CHANGE THE FORMAT FROM NTFS TO FAT32, WILL XP STILL RUN?
(I do not want to reinstall).

I have "Partition Magic", which will not only change the partition
without losing all the data, but can even make partitions on one
drive.

Of course I'll backup first....

But will XP run when changing the drive from NTFS to FAT32?

If for some reason I cant get Partition Magic to work, I have a USB
plug in harddrive that I can copy everything to, and replace it later.

Another thing, will I need to re-activate XP with MS after doing this?

----

Another question.  The guy did not have the original XP Cd.  He gave
me a Dell Cd for XP.  This is not a Dell computer.  I inderstand that
those "branded ones" dont install properly, or can not be activated,
or something like that.....  What's the deal with this?  
-OR-
Can I just get a friend to burn me a generic version of XP pro and use
the license on the computer if I needed to reinstall?  (not sure how
legal this is, but I'm not too worried about it since I do have the
legal license, and it's just for home use).

----

Lastly, to copy XP to my external USB drive, I know there are some
files that will not copy.  In Win98, it's the SWAP FILE.  In Win2000,
it's PAGEFILE.SYS and parts of Documents and Settings folder.  What
will not copy in XP?  Is it the same as Win2000?  How do I backup the
Documents and Settings folder in XP?  (I prefer direct copies, not a
backup software).

Thanks for all help.

Mister Friendly


0
mister_friendly
4/26/2010 10:22:38 PM
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*** See below.

<mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com> wrote in message 
news:m33ct5p34g5bghcr0476vj5dgqqgkhc6co@4ax.com...
> I just bought a used computer, complete with a licensed copy of
> Windows XP Pro SP3.  I bought the computer from a guy who bought a
> whole batch of them from some office and was reselling them.  They
> came with a legal license serial number on the computer for XP Pro.
> He wiped the drive and resinstalled XP along with some other licensed
> commercial stuff and some freeware.  All in all, what I got was a
> ready to run computer, including everything except the monitor.
>
> I have never owned XP, and was still using Win98 and Win2000 mostly
> because of a slow computer and the fact I did not want to purchase XP.
> Instead, I bought the whole computer which is 3 times faster than my
> old one, for what I would have paid for XP.
>
> But there is one problem.  He installed it using the NTFS format.  I
> DO NOT want NTFS.  (Two reasons, 1. I still use some dos software, 2.
> NTFS scares me, because if Windows fails on Fat32, I can still access
> the data from Dos, but I know far too many people who lost all their
> data when a NTFS partition failed.  I know that XP will run almost as
> well on a Fat32 partition  (just like my Win2000 works fine on Fat32).
>
> IF I CHANGE THE FORMAT FROM NTFS TO FAT32, WILL XP STILL RUN?
> (I do not want to reinstall).
*** Yes, it will.
>
> I have "Partition Magic", which will not only change the partition
> without losing all the data, but can even make partitions on one
> drive.
>
> Of course I'll backup first....
>
> But will XP run when changing the drive from NTFS to FAT32?
*** Yes again.

> If for some reason I cant get Partition Magic to work, I have a USB
> plug in harddrive that I can copy everything to, and replace it later.
>
> Another thing, will I need to re-activate XP with MS after doing this?
*** No.

> ----
>
> Another question.  The guy did not have the original XP Cd.  He gave
> me a Dell Cd for XP.  This is not a Dell computer.  I inderstand that
> those "branded ones" dont install properly, or can not be activated,
> or something like that.....  What's the deal with this?
*** The CD might lack the hardware-specific drivers.

> -OR-
> Can I just get a friend to burn me a generic version of XP pro and use
> the license on the computer if I needed to reinstall?  (not sure how
> legal this is, but I'm not too worried about it since I do have the
> legal license, and it's just for home use).
*** You can, provided that his copy matches your product key 
(OEM/Retail/Home/Professional).

> ----
>
> Lastly, to copy XP to my external USB drive, I know there are some
> files that will not copy.  In Win98, it's the SWAP FILE.  In Win2000,
> it's PAGEFILE.SYS and parts of Documents and Settings folder.  What
> will not copy in XP?  Is it the same as Win2000?  How do I backup the
> Documents and Settings folder in XP?  (I prefer direct copies, not a
> backup software).
*** By connecting the disk as a slave disk to your Win2000 machine.

>
> Thanks for all help.
>
> Mister Friendly
>
> 
0
Pegasus
4/26/2010 10:32:50 PM
mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com wrote:
> I just bought a used computer, complete with a licensed copy of
> Windows XP Pro SP3.  I bought the computer from a guy who bought a
> whole batch of them from some office and was reselling them.  They
> came with a legal license serial number on the computer for XP Pro.
> He wiped the drive and resinstalled XP along with some other licensed
> commercial stuff and some freeware.  All in all, what I got was a
> ready to run computer, including everything except the monitor.
> 
> I have never owned XP, and was still using Win98 and Win2000 mostly
> because of a slow computer and the fact I did not want to purchase XP.
> Instead, I bought the whole computer which is 3 times faster than my
> old one, for what I would have paid for XP. 
> 
> But there is one problem.  He installed it using the NTFS format.  I
> DO NOT want NTFS.  (Two reasons, 1. I still use some dos software, 2.
> NTFS scares me, because if Windows fails on Fat32, I can still access
> the data from Dos, but I know far too many people who lost all their
> data when a NTFS partition failed.  I know that XP will run almost as
> well on a Fat32 partition  (just like my Win2000 works fine on Fat32).
> 
> IF I CHANGE THE FORMAT FROM NTFS TO FAT32, WILL XP STILL RUN?
> (I do not want to reinstall).
> 
> I have "Partition Magic", which will not only change the partition
> without losing all the data, but can even make partitions on one
> drive.
> 
> Of course I'll backup first....
> 
> But will XP run when changing the drive from NTFS to FAT32?
> 
> If for some reason I cant get Partition Magic to work, I have a USB
> plug in harddrive that I can copy everything to, and replace it later.
> 
> Another thing, will I need to re-activate XP with MS after doing this?
> 
> ----
> 
> Another question.  The guy did not have the original XP Cd.  He gave
> me a Dell Cd for XP.  This is not a Dell computer.  I inderstand that
> those "branded ones" dont install properly, or can not be activated,
> or something like that.....  What's the deal with this?  
> -OR-
> Can I just get a friend to burn me a generic version of XP pro and use
> the license on the computer if I needed to reinstall?  (not sure how
> legal this is, but I'm not too worried about it since I do have the
> legal license, and it's just for home use).
> 
> ----
> 
> Lastly, to copy XP to my external USB drive, I know there are some
> files that will not copy.  In Win98, it's the SWAP FILE.  In Win2000,
> it's PAGEFILE.SYS and parts of Documents and Settings folder.  What
> will not copy in XP?  Is it the same as Win2000?  How do I backup the
> Documents and Settings folder in XP?  (I prefer direct copies, not a
> backup software).
> 
> Thanks for all help.
> 
> Mister Friendly
> 
> 

I don't know what you mean by "copy XP to my external USB drive." You 
can't "copy" the operating system and then copy it back after you've 
FDisk'd the original disk (other than using an image or disk clone, 
which you said you didn't want to do). If all you're talking about is 
copying *data*  then just copy the files and/or folders using whatever 
method you like, drag-n-drop, copy, xcopy, robocopy, or other utility.

Unless the "other licensed commercial stuff" is very simplistic, you 
also can't just copy those applications. Most apps these days must be 
"installed," which typically involves creating a lot of entries 
scattered throughout the Windows registry.

You can't convert from NTFS to FAT32 using the native Windows tool 
Convert. You can, as you seem to recognize, do it using the 
no-longer-supported application Partition Magic.  Given that you have 
essentially a just-installed system, you *probably* won't have any 
problems converting to FAT32, but check the user guide for your version 
of Partition Magic for "Restrictions on Converting NTFS Partitions to 
FAT or FAT32" and "NTFS Information Lost When Converting to FAT or FAT32."

I'm not familiar with all of the details of Windows authorization, but 
it's my understanding that the major OEMs, like Dell, "BIOS-lock" the XP 
install CD that they provide to machines with their proprietary BIOS. 
That is, a Dell XP install CD probably will *not* install on a non-Dell 
pc. However, as Pegasus said, you can use your XP license with an XP 
install CD of the same type.

-- 
Lem

Apollo 11 - 40 years ago: 
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/apollo/40th/index.html
0
Lem
4/26/2010 11:04:38 PM
Lem <lemp40@unknownhost> �crivait
news:OCkAYTZ5KHA.3292@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl: 

<snip>
> 
> I'm not familiar with all of the details of Windows authorization, but
> it's my understanding that the major OEMs, like Dell, "BIOS-lock" the
> XP install CD that they provide to machines with their proprietary
> BIOS. That is, a Dell XP install CD probably will *not* install on a
> non-Dell pc. However, as Pegasus said, you can use your XP license
> with an XP install CD of the same type.
> 

The way I understand it is OEM's "Recovery disks" (to take the computer 
back to brand new state) are BIOS locked and don't need activation.

But if the disk is a branded "XP Installation CD" used to format and 
install from scratch (like Dell used to supply) they might install on non-
Dell machine but the user will have to provide the drivers for his hardware 
like he would with a generic XP disk.

I don't have experience with that procedure though but I think it must work 
because many "retailers" sell Dell branded XP installation disks on eBay 
and they claim it works and they have good feedback from buyers. 
0
Doum
4/27/2010 1:03:53 AM
mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com wrote:
> I just bought a used computer, complete with a licensed copy of
> Windows XP Pro SP3.  I bought the computer from a guy who bought a
> whole batch of them from some office and was reselling them.  They
> came with a legal license serial number on the computer for XP Pro.
> He wiped the drive and resinstalled XP along with some other licensed
> commercial stuff and some freeware.  All in all, what I got was a
> ready to run computer, including everything except the monitor.
> 
> I have never owned XP, and was still using Win98 and Win2000 mostly
> because of a slow computer and the fact I did not want to purchase XP.
> Instead, I bought the whole computer which is 3 times faster than my
> old one, for what I would have paid for XP. 
> 
> But there is one problem.  He installed it using the NTFS format.  I
> DO NOT want NTFS.  (Two reasons, 1. I still use some dos software, 2.
> NTFS scares me, because if Windows fails on Fat32, I can still access
> the data from Dos, but I know far too many people who lost all their
> data when a NTFS partition failed.  I know that XP will run almost as
> well on a Fat32 partition  (just like my Win2000 works fine on Fat32).
> 
> IF I CHANGE THE FORMAT FROM NTFS TO FAT32, WILL XP STILL RUN?
> (I do not want to reinstall).
> 
> I have "Partition Magic", which will not only change the partition
> without losing all the data, but can even make partitions on one
> drive.
> 
> Of course I'll backup first....
> 
> But will XP run when changing the drive from NTFS to FAT32?
> 
> If for some reason I cant get Partition Magic to work, I have a USB
> plug in harddrive that I can copy everything to, and replace it later.
> 
> Another thing, will I need to re-activate XP with MS after doing this?
> 
> ----
> 
> Another question.  The guy did not have the original XP Cd.  He gave
> me a Dell Cd for XP.  This is not a Dell computer.  I inderstand that
> those "branded ones" dont install properly, or can not be activated,
> or something like that.....  What's the deal with this?  
> -OR-
> Can I just get a friend to burn me a generic version of XP pro and use
> the license on the computer if I needed to reinstall?  (not sure how
> legal this is, but I'm not too worried about it since I do have the
> legal license, and it's just for home use).
> 
> ----
> 
> Lastly, to copy XP to my external USB drive, I know there are some
> files that will not copy.  In Win98, it's the SWAP FILE.  In Win2000,
> it's PAGEFILE.SYS and parts of Documents and Settings folder.  What
> will not copy in XP?  Is it the same as Win2000?  How do I backup the
> Documents and Settings folder in XP?  (I prefer direct copies, not a
> backup software).
> 
> Thanks for all help.
> 
> Mister Friendly
> 
> 

My opinion would be, a good many of your queries and requirements, could
be covered by a good backup strategy. For example, if you have a large
external drive, you can make "images" of your C: drive, in case of
a disaster. Then, it doesn't matter whether the OS is NTFS or FAT32, you're
covered. As long as the backup software supports "bare metal recovery", you
can put all the data back on there. ("Bare metal recovery" usually involves
burning a recovery CD, and that is how you boot the "empty" or "bare" computer.)
You can make an image per day, if C: is small enough, and be able to undo
damage by picking the day you want, from the backup disk.

I copy my OS, by using a second OS. My machine has WinXP and Win2K, and I
boot Win2K when doing backups of the C: that has WinXP. If that sounds like
it costs too much money, you can use Ubuntu or Knoppix (Linux), and do
copying in that environment. I use "dd", which is a sector by
sector "disk dump" tool, to make complete images of Windows partitions.
I was running that a couple days ago, at about 50MB/sec, and making an
exact copy of C: on a backup partition on the second drive. While I
could also try to copy "file by file" in Linux, I doubt NTFS attributes
would be preserved that way (I've never tested that). "dd" on the other hand,
preserves everything, because it copies every sector exactly. So right now,
I have a 78GB image file on my backup drive. If my WinXP were to break
30 seconds from now, I can reload that image onto the area used for C:.

That doesn't answer the question, of how you'd reinstall the OS. But
the faster you make at least one backup of what you've got, you have
at least one other option available to you later. You can always go back
to the known-working C: image you've got right now. If you can make a
backup, before you're struck by malware or a virus, then that gives
you another option for recovery. So backups can be a poor man's
alternative to having the right install CD to use.

You can get a Knoppix CD here. Knoppix can read/write to NTFS or FAT32.
Ubuntu is another option.

http://www.knopper.net/knoppix-mirrors/index-en.html

The last one I tried, is KNOPPIX_V6.2.1CD-2010-01-31-EN.iso . I use Nero
to burn a bootable CD, based on the ISO9660 download. The download size
is 721,999,872 bytes. If you're on dialup, well, forget it :-) The phone
company would hang up the line, before the download finished.

    Paul
0
Paul
4/27/2010 5:08:40 AM
Hi,

mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com wrote:
> I just bought a used computer, complete with a licensed copy of
> Windows XP Pro SP3.  I bought the computer from a guy who bought a
.. . .

>  I
> DO NOT want NTFS.  (Two reasons, 1. I still use some dos software, 2.
> NTFS scares me, because if Windows fails on Fat32, I can still access
> the data from Dos, but I know far too many people who lost all their
> data when a NTFS partition failed.  I know that XP will run almost as
> well on a Fat32 partition  (just like my Win2000 works fine on Fat32).
> 

I personally would NOT switch to a DOS file system.
I'd suggest yo use partitio nmagic and create one partition for your DOS
programs and keep the majority under NTFS.

NTFS is already some years old and well, has some advantages over DOS
file systems.

If the system fails, then you can still boot from a small Linux on a CD
or USB-stick and read and copy the NTFS data.

The better strategy to avoid data loss is in any case to have a backup
medium (e.g. an external USB disk with your user data)


bye

N
0
News123
4/27/2010 7:17:04 AM
On 4/27/2010 1:22 AM, mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com wrote:
snip
> old one, for what I would have paid for XP.
>
> But there is one problem.  He installed it using the NTFS format.  I
> DO NOT want NTFS.  (Two reasons, 1. I still use some dos software, 2.
> NTFS scares me, because if Windows fails on Fat32, I can still access
> the data from Dos, but I know far too many people who lost all their
> data when a NTFS partition failed.  I know that XP will run almost as
> well on a Fat32 partition  (just like my Win2000 works fine on Fat32).
>
> IF I CHANGE THE FORMAT FROM NTFS TO FAT32, WILL XP STILL RUN?
> (I do not want to reinstall).
>
> I have "Partition Magic", which will not only change the partition
> without losing all the data, but can even make partitions on one
> drive.

snip

I believe all your questions have more or less been answered; what 
remains is, what is the probability Partition Magic will do what you 
want? Until you try, it is impossible to tell for sure.

As Lem said, since your system is basically a newly installed one, this 
may work. May be try this surgery with a more recent program would be a 
better bet. EASEUS Partition Master or Acronis Disk Director might be 
safer, especially if you are dealing with a large partition, say, over 80G.

I am surprised nobody came to discuss the reasons you want to go back to 
Fat32. People usually get very excited on this topic. Personally, I have 
been sticking to FAT 32 and this is one of the many reasons I have kept 
using XP. I did once try NFTS and the first thing I noticed was the 
performance impact. Then, when my system crashed, I discovered how 
difficult it is to repair a NTFS partition if you are not an IT 
professional. I had to reinstall. Since I never found myself with a 
crashed FAT 32 partition I could not repair, the decision was quickly 
made to go back to FAT 32.

Until I need an application that runs only on W7 and NTFS, I will stay 
with XP. This time is probably decades away!

Good luck.
-- 
John Doue
0
John
4/27/2010 7:37:47 AM
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:37:47 +0300, John Doue <notwobe@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On 4/27/2010 1:22 AM, mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com wrote:
>snip
>> old one, for what I would have paid for XP.
>>
>> But there is one problem.  He installed it using the NTFS format.  I
>> DO NOT want NTFS.  (Two reasons, 1. I still use some dos software, 2.
>> NTFS scares me, because if Windows fails on Fat32, I can still access
>> the data from Dos, but I know far too many people who lost all their
>> data when a NTFS partition failed.  I know that XP will run almost as
>> well on a Fat32 partition  (just like my Win2000 works fine on Fat32).
>>
>> IF I CHANGE THE FORMAT FROM NTFS TO FAT32, WILL XP STILL RUN?
>> (I do not want to reinstall).
>>
>> I have "Partition Magic", which will not only change the partition
>> without losing all the data, but can even make partitions on one
>> drive.
>
>snip
>
>I believe all your questions have more or less been answered; what 
>remains is, what is the probability Partition Magic will do what you 
>want? Until you try, it is impossible to tell for sure.
>
>As Lem said, since your system is basically a newly installed one, this 
>may work. May be try this surgery with a more recent program would be a 
>better bet. EASEUS Partition Master or Acronis Disk Director might be 
>safer, especially if you are dealing with a large partition, say, over 80G.
>
>I am surprised nobody came to discuss the reasons you want to go back to 
>Fat32. People usually get very excited on this topic. Personally, I have 
>been sticking to FAT 32 and this is one of the many reasons I have kept 
>using XP. I did once try NFTS and the first thing I noticed was the 
>performance impact. Then, when my system crashed, I discovered how 
>difficult it is to repair a NTFS partition if you are not an IT 
>professional. I had to reinstall. Since I never found myself with a 
>crashed FAT 32 partition I could not repair, the decision was quickly 
>made to go back to FAT 32.
>
>Until I need an application that runs only on W7 and NTFS, I will stay 
>with XP. This time is probably decades away!
>
>Good luck.

My first encounter with XP (aside from just playing around with it),
was when a friend's computer crashed.  I had always helped him when
his Win98 computer failed, and now his one year old brand new computer
was completely crashed.  He had lots of important photos, and months
of work with some geneology stuff he was doing.

I spent a full 10 or 11 hours one day trying to get that thing to run.
I used the repair cd, I tried to reinstall XP on top of the failed
boot.  I booted from Dos floppies, I even installed Win98 on another
drive, and tried to connect the XP drive as a slave.  No matter what I
did, it was hopeless.  He ended up losing everything.

It was that moment when I said that I'd never use XP.  I have been
running Win98 since 1998, and no matter how badly 98 has gotten messed
up, I was always able to retrieve the data, just losing some of the OS
files, which can be easily replaced.  I swore I'd never install XP and
quite honestly I hated it, after seeing what happened to that friends
computer.

It was several years later that I learned it was not XP, but that damn
NTFS format that caused the loss of data.  That was about the same
time I installed Windows 2000 on an old laptop that I had gotten,
which came with Win98, but in order to use the addon WIFI card, it
required Win2000 or XP.  As soon as I installed Win2000, I quickly
found that I could not use Dos.  That's when I learned that I could
install Win2000 on a Fat32 partition.  I reinstalled it after
formatting to Fat32, and it's worked better and ran well ever since.
Eventually the harddrive was failing, and I was still able to retrieve
the data before the drive totally fried.

Well, I finally decided to upgrade to XP, only because I was able to
buy a much newer and faster, used computer for less than it would cost
to buy a copy of XP.  I am quite pleased with the increased power and
other new features.  However I did not even bother to ask the seller
about the drive format at the time.  The seller lives several hundred
miles away, because I bought the computer while I was on a trip and
saw an ad for it, at a price I could not refuse.  

So, when I got home, I found out that it was a NTFS format and I got a
lump in my throat.  I dont mind learning the new OS, and I still have
my older computer to use, but I simply do not want the NTFS format.
But without the "original" Cd, I am a little unsure about whether I
can get it to run if I needed to reinstall, and he also installed
other software that I do not have the original programs.

I have changed partition sizes and added partitions and more, on my
Win98 and Win2000 computers without any problems, using Partition
Magic.  So, I would hope that it would work the same way in XP.  My
other thought was to keep just XP in a very small partition (Drive C)
and use partition magic to create a Drive D partition, where I'd keep
all my data on D.  That way only the OS would be in a NTFS partition,
and D: would be Fat32.  But in the end, I still would rather change
everything to Fat32.

It's good to know that some of the linux Cds can access NTFS, but I
still run several pure DOS apps that will not run in NTFS.


Mister Friendly
0
mister_friendly
4/27/2010 10:18:27 AM
mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com wrote:
>
> But there is one problem.  He installed it using the NTFS format.  I
> DO NOT want NTFS.  (Two reasons, 1. I still use some dos software, 2.
> NTFS scares me, because if Windows fails on Fat32, I can still access
> the data from Dos, but I know far too many people who lost all their
> data when a NTFS partition failed.  I know that XP will run almost as
> well on a Fat32 partition  (just like my Win2000 works fine on Fat32).
>
> IF I CHANGE THE FORMAT FROM NTFS TO FAT32, WILL XP STILL RUN?
> (I do not want to reinstall).

1. Neither your DOS program nor XP has any knowledge of, nor can it (easily) 
determine, the file system used by the OS. Virtually any DOS program will 
work on NTFS (actually better - NTFS is much faster than FAT).

2. NTFS may fail, but it is FAR less likely to do so than a FAT partition.

a) NTFS is "self-healing" in that it can correct physical errors it 
encounters - not all, to be sure, but many.
b) NTFS continually monitors its health and will warn you when it detects 
impending doom. For example, if a FAT partition encounters a write or read 
error, it simply retries the action. If, on the 50th attempt to read, it is 
successful, it merely goes on as if nothing had happened. Not so NTFS; NTFS 
keeps track of this sort of crap and warns you of imminent failure.

3. If an NTFS partition "fails" it can be recovered - admittedly with 
different tools - as successfully as a FAT partition.

4. Virtually ALL crucial files, in every enterprise, large or small, is 
NTFS. Techniods and experts who know far more than you or I chose NTFS over 
FAT for exactly the reasons that concern you. Be assured that the American 
Airlines reservation system or the payroll program for Honest Eddie's Used 
Cars is NOT running on a FAT disk!

5. Trying to minimize a catastrophic failure is no excuse for insufficient 
backups.

Further I suggest you do not know of ANYBODY whose data could not be 
recovered from an NTFS partition that, had they been using a FAT partition, 
would have been in a better position.



0
HeyBub
4/27/2010 12:31:18 PM
mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com wrote:
>
> It's good to know that some of the linux Cds can access NTFS, but I
> still run several pure DOS apps that will not run in NTFS.
>

Name one program. Just one.

Unless the DOS program is fiddling with the disk at the hardware level - not 
the API level, at specific track and sector level - the DOS program cannot 
tell it's working with an NTFS partition.

It's the same concept as data coming over a network: the receiving computer 
has no knowledge of the operating system that generated the data packet.

Many commercial programs say, on their box, that they require Win98, WinXP, 
etc. I have NEVER seen a commercial program that required a particular file 
system.

And, within all human reason, neither has anybody else. 


0
HeyBub
4/27/2010 12:39:36 PM
HeyBub wrote:
> mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com wrote:
>> It's good to know that some of the linux Cds can access NTFS, but I
>> still run several pure DOS apps that will not run in NTFS.
>>
> 
> Name one program. Just one.
> 
> Unless the DOS program is fiddling with the disk at the hardware level - not 
> the API level, at specific track and sector level - the DOS program cannot 
> tell it's working with an NTFS partition.

And NT operating systems do not permit direct access to hardware so if 
the DOS application needs direct disk access it still wouldn't work even 
if it were on FAT or FAT32 drives.  As you said, the file system is 
completely irrelevant, either the application runs on XP or it doesn't, 
installing XP on FAT32 won't make the DOS application work any more than 
it would on NTFS.

John
0
John
4/27/2010 12:52:17 PM
"HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:eMQJ0ag5KHA.5016@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com wrote:
>>
>> It's good to know that some of the linux Cds can access NTFS, but I
>> still run several pure DOS apps that will not run in NTFS.
>>
>
> Name one program. Just one.

OK, I think this is one: MSDOS.  If you boot from a DOS CD or thumb drive or 
floppy, none of the NTFS drives show up.  So most DOS programs run under 
that DOS bootup will not see those NTFS drives either.  There are, of 
course, some exceptions, likeNorton's GDisk.

-Paul Randall

>
> Unless the DOS program is fiddling with the disk at the hardware level - 
> not the API level, at specific track and sector level - the DOS program 
> cannot tell it's working with an NTFS partition.
>
> It's the same concept as data coming over a network: the receiving 
> computer has no knowledge of the operating system that generated the data 
> packet.
>
> Many commercial programs say, on their box, that they require Win98, 
> WinXP, etc. I have NEVER seen a commercial program that required a 
> particular file system.
>
> And, within all human reason, neither has anybody else.
> 


0
Paul
4/27/2010 1:11:50 PM
mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com wrote:

> My first encounter with XP (aside from just playing around with it),
> was when a friend's computer crashed.  I had always helped him when
> his Win98 computer failed, and now his one year old brand new computer
> was completely crashed.  He had lots of important photos, and months
> of work with some geneology stuff he was doing.

If he didn't bother making a backup his photos and time couldn't have 
been all that important to him.


> I spent a full 10 or 11 hours one day trying to get that thing to run.
> I used the repair cd, I tried to reinstall XP on top of the failed
> boot.  I booted from Dos floppies, I even installed Win98 on another
> drive, and tried to connect the XP drive as a slave.  No matter what I
> did, it was hopeless.  He ended up losing everything.

Would you try to mount (slave) a FAT32 drive on a DOS 6.0 or a Windows 
95A operating system?  No?  Why not?  What made you think that Windows 
98 could read NTFS?


> It was that moment when I said that I'd never use XP.  I have been
> running Win98 since 1998, and no matter how badly 98 has gotten messed
> up, I was always able to retrieve the data, just losing some of the OS
> files, which can be easily replaced.  I swore I'd never install XP and
> quite honestly I hated it, after seeing what happened to that friends
> computer.
> 
> It was several years later that I learned it was not XP, but that damn
> NTFS format that caused the loss of data.

So, how did you come to the conclusion that NTFS caused the data loss? 
What tangible evidence to that have you got?  If you were to mount an 
ext2/3 or Reiser disk in a Windows XP machine would you declare all the 
files on the disk lost because XP couldn't read it?  And would you blame 
the Linux file system for the 'apparent' loss of files?


> That was about the same
> time I installed Windows 2000 on an old laptop that I had gotten,
> which came with Win98, but in order to use the addon WIFI card, it
> required Win2000 or XP.  As soon as I installed Win2000, I quickly
> found that I could not use Dos.  That's when I learned that I could
> install Win2000 on a Fat32 partition.  I reinstalled it after
> formatting to Fat32, and it's worked better and ran well ever since.
> Eventually the harddrive was failing, and I was still able to retrieve
> the data before the drive totally fried.

So you still hadn't learned your lesson... along the same line you might 
one day find out that its too late to buy house insurance when your 
house is on fire...


> Well, I finally decided to upgrade to XP, only because I was able to
> buy a much newer and faster, used computer for less than it would cost
> to buy a copy of XP.  I am quite pleased with the increased power and
> other new features.  However I did not even bother to ask the seller
> about the drive format at the time.  The seller lives several hundred
> miles away, because I bought the computer while I was on a trip and
> saw an ad for it, at a price I could not refuse.  
> 
> So, when I got home, I found out that it was a NTFS format and I got a
> lump in my throat.  I dont mind learning the new OS, and I still have
> my older computer to use, but I simply do not want the NTFS format.
> But without the "original" Cd, I am a little unsure about whether I
> can get it to run if I needed to reinstall, and he also installed
> other software that I do not have the original programs.
> 
> I have changed partition sizes and added partitions and more, on my
> Win98 and Win2000 computers without any problems, using Partition
> Magic.  So, I would hope that it would work the same way in XP.  My
> other thought was to keep just XP in a very small partition (Drive C)
> and use partition magic to create a Drive D partition, where I'd keep
> all my data on D.  That way only the OS would be in a NTFS partition,
> and D: would be Fat32.  But in the end, I still would rather change
> everything to Fat32.
> 
> It's good to know that some of the linux Cds can access NTFS, but I
> still run several pure DOS apps that will not run in NTFS.

Unless you are dual booting to DOS the file system is completely 
irrelevant to the DOS application, either it works on XP or it doesn't.

With all due respect, your post simply points to two immutable computing 
facts:

1-  It doesn't matter which operating system or which file system you 
use, sooner or later anyone without a proper backup will lose files. 
Happens to Mac users, happens to Linux users, happens to Sun/Unix users 
and, oh God, does it too ever happen to Windows 98 users!

2-  People who don't understand how "it" works or how to fix "it" blame 
the computer, or the operating system, or the file system, or their 
kids, or their kid sister, or their aging parents or....

John
0
John
4/27/2010 1:24:08 PM
Paul Randall wrote:
> "HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:eMQJ0ag5KHA.5016@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com wrote:
>>> It's good to know that some of the linux Cds can access NTFS, but I
>>> still run several pure DOS apps that will not run in NTFS.
>>>
>> Name one program. Just one.
> 
> OK, I think this is one: MSDOS.

That's not a program, it's an operating system!

> If you boot from a DOS CD or thumb drive or 
> floppy, none of the NTFS drives show up.

Well gee, how surprising!  It's no secret that DOS can't read NTFS... no 
more than it is that DOS versions prior to 6.2 can't read FAT32!

John
0
John
4/27/2010 1:38:24 PM
On 4/27/2010 3:31 PM, HeyBub wrote:
> mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com wrote:
>>
>> But there is one problem.  He installed it using the NTFS format.  I
>> DO NOT want NTFS.  (Two reasons, 1. I still use some dos software, 2.
>> NTFS scares me, because if Windows fails on Fat32, I can still access
>> the data from Dos, but I know far too many people who lost all their
>> data when a NTFS partition failed.  I know that XP will run almost as
>> well on a Fat32 partition  (just like my Win2000 works fine on Fat32).
>>
>> IF I CHANGE THE FORMAT FROM NTFS TO FAT32, WILL XP STILL RUN?
>> (I do not want to reinstall).
>
> 1. Neither your DOS program nor XP has any knowledge of, nor can it (easily)
> determine, the file system used by the OS. Virtually any DOS program will
> work on NTFS (actually better - NTFS is much faster than FAT).
>
> 2. NTFS may fail, but it is FAR less likely to do so than a FAT partition.
>
> a) NTFS is "self-healing" in that it can correct physical errors it
> encounters - not all, to be sure, but many.
> b) NTFS continually monitors its health and will warn you when it detects
> impending doom. For example, if a FAT partition encounters a write or read
> error, it simply retries the action. If, on the 50th attempt to read, it is
> successful, it merely goes on as if nothing had happened. Not so NTFS; NTFS
> keeps track of this sort of crap and warns you of imminent failure.
>
> 3. If an NTFS partition "fails" it can be recovered - admittedly with
> different tools - as successfully as a FAT partition.
>
> 4. Virtually ALL crucial files, in every enterprise, large or small, is
> NTFS. Techniods and experts who know far more than you or I chose NTFS over
> FAT for exactly the reasons that concern you. Be assured that the American
> Airlines reservation system or the payroll program for Honest Eddie's Used
> Cars is NOT running on a FAT disk!
>
> 5. Trying to minimize a catastrophic failure is no excuse for insufficient
> backups.
>
> Further I suggest you do not know of ANYBODY whose data could not be
> recovered from an NTFS partition that, had they been using a FAT partition,
> would have been in a better position.
>
>
>
You are right on all counts - although I find a performance impact for 
NTFS, which is natural since it monitors and writes far more elements 
than NTFS - but for one crucial element: neither the OP, nor I as a 
matter of fact, are IT professionals. All things being equal in terms of 
*expertise*, recovering a FAT 32 partition is probably easier in most cases.

And I suggest that large entities would not bother with Windows, but 
with Unix or Linux, which makes your point kind of moot.

-- 
John Doue
0
John
4/27/2010 2:39:37 PM

<mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com> wrote in message 
news:locdt5lvht04eug3lnddo2lutlgjedi2cv@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:37:47 +0300, John Doue <notwobe@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> Mister Friendly

It seems you have a tendency to draw conclusions based on an extremely small 
sample size (to be precise: a sample of one). When your friend had a problem 
with his computer, you concluded that the fault was with Windows XP. One 
sample, one firm conclusion. Later on you found you were wrong (surprise, 
surprise), so you concluded that the problem was with NTFS. Your method of 
reasoning is equivalent to saying that Ford motor cars are unsafe after your 
neighbour slammed his Ford into a tree while at the same time ignoring that 
he was drunk, was using his mobile phone while driving and was giving a 
cyclist the two-finger salute through the open Window. 

0
Pegasus
4/27/2010 4:01:30 PM
mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:37:47 +0300, John Doue <notwobe@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 4/27/2010 1:22 AM, mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com wrote:
>> snip
>>> old one, for what I would have paid for XP.
>>>
>>> But there is one problem.  He installed it using the NTFS format.  I
>>> DO NOT want NTFS.  (Two reasons, 1. I still use some dos software, 2.
>>> NTFS scares me, because if Windows fails on Fat32, I can still access
>>> the data from Dos, but I know far too many people who lost all their
>>> data when a NTFS partition failed.  I know that XP will run almost as
>>> well on a Fat32 partition  (just like my Win2000 works fine on Fat32).
>>>
>>> IF I CHANGE THE FORMAT FROM NTFS TO FAT32, WILL XP STILL RUN?
>>> (I do not want to reinstall).
>>>
>>> I have "Partition Magic", which will not only change the partition
>>> without losing all the data, but can even make partitions on one
>>> drive.
>> snip
>>
>> I believe all your questions have more or less been answered; what 
>> remains is, what is the probability Partition Magic will do what you 
>> want? Until you try, it is impossible to tell for sure.
>>
>> As Lem said, since your system is basically a newly installed one, this 
>> may work. May be try this surgery with a more recent program would be a 
>> better bet. EASEUS Partition Master or Acronis Disk Director might be 
>> safer, especially if you are dealing with a large partition, say, over 80G.
>>
>> I am surprised nobody came to discuss the reasons you want to go back to 
>> Fat32. People usually get very excited on this topic. Personally, I have 
>> been sticking to FAT 32 and this is one of the many reasons I have kept 
>> using XP. I did once try NFTS and the first thing I noticed was the 
>> performance impact. Then, when my system crashed, I discovered how 
>> difficult it is to repair a NTFS partition if you are not an IT 
>> professional. I had to reinstall. Since I never found myself with a 
>> crashed FAT 32 partition I could not repair, the decision was quickly 
>> made to go back to FAT 32.
>>
>> Until I need an application that runs only on W7 and NTFS, I will stay 
>> with XP. This time is probably decades away!
>>
>> Good luck.
> 
> My first encounter with XP (aside from just playing around with it),
> was when a friend's computer crashed.  I had always helped him when
> his Win98 computer failed, and now his one year old brand new computer
> was completely crashed.  He had lots of important photos, and months
> of work with some geneology stuff he was doing.
> 
> I spent a full 10 or 11 hours one day trying to get that thing to run.
> I used the repair cd, I tried to reinstall XP on top of the failed
> boot.  I booted from Dos floppies, I even installed Win98 on another
> drive, and tried to connect the XP drive as a slave.  No matter what I
> did, it was hopeless.  He ended up losing everything.
Big mistake

No way could you have accessed an NTFS partition from win98 or dos

All you would have to have done was install XP on another drive
then slave the old drive to it...and all the data would have been there
Hope you kept the drive > The reason the data was lost was simply 
because you did not understand NTFS.

No need to be paranoid...
I'd leave your machine as NTFS and you can always recover the data from 
your win2k machine or from a live Linux cd

That said: if you insist...you can convert NTFS to Fat32 by using 
Partition Magic. In theory it will work...but there is always
the possibility of failure...especially with the boot sector...
so I'd not risk it.


0
philo
4/27/2010 7:30:27 PM
philo wrote:
> mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:37:47 +0300, John Doue <notwobe@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/27/2010 1:22 AM, mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com wrote:
>>> snip
>>>> old one, for what I would have paid for XP.
>>>>
>>>> But there is one problem.  He installed it using the NTFS format.  I
>>>> DO NOT want NTFS.  (Two reasons, 1. I still use some dos software, 2.
>>>> NTFS scares me, because if Windows fails on Fat32, I can still access
>>>> the data from Dos, but I know far too many people who lost all their
>>>> data when a NTFS partition failed.  I know that XP will run almost as
>>>> well on a Fat32 partition  (just like my Win2000 works fine on Fat32).
>>>>
>>>> IF I CHANGE THE FORMAT FROM NTFS TO FAT32, WILL XP STILL RUN?
>>>> (I do not want to reinstall).
>>>>
>>>> I have "Partition Magic", which will not only change the partition
>>>> without losing all the data, but can even make partitions on one
>>>> drive.
>>> snip
>>>
>>> I believe all your questions have more or less been answered; what
>>> remains is, what is the probability Partition Magic will do what you
>>> want? Until you try, it is impossible to tell for sure.
>>>
>>> As Lem said, since your system is basically a newly installed one, this
>>> may work. May be try this surgery with a more recent program would be a
>>> better bet. EASEUS Partition Master or Acronis Disk Director might be
>>> safer, especially if you are dealing with a large partition, say, over 
>>> 80G.
>>>
>>> I am surprised nobody came to discuss the reasons you want to go back to
>>> Fat32. People usually get very excited on this topic. Personally, I have
>>> been sticking to FAT 32 and this is one of the many reasons I have kept
>>> using XP. I did once try NFTS and the first thing I noticed was the
>>> performance impact. Then, when my system crashed, I discovered how
>>> difficult it is to repair a NTFS partition if you are not an IT
>>> professional. I had to reinstall. Since I never found myself with a
>>> crashed FAT 32 partition I could not repair, the decision was quickly
>>> made to go back to FAT 32.
>>>
>>> Until I need an application that runs only on W7 and NTFS, I will stay
>>> with XP. This time is probably decades away!
>>>
>>> Good luck.
>>
>> My first encounter with XP (aside from just playing around with it),
>> was when a friend's computer crashed.  I had always helped him when
>> his Win98 computer failed, and now his one year old brand new computer
>> was completely crashed.  He had lots of important photos, and months
>> of work with some geneology stuff he was doing.
>>
>> I spent a full 10 or 11 hours one day trying to get that thing to run.
>> I used the repair cd, I tried to reinstall XP on top of the failed
>> boot.  I booted from Dos floppies, I even installed Win98 on another
>> drive, and tried to connect the XP drive as a slave.  No matter what I
>> did, it was hopeless.  He ended up losing everything.
> Big mistake
>
> No way could you have accessed an NTFS partition from win98 or dos

There are *some* utilties that will allow access to NTFS partitions from DOS 
or Win98, at least as I recall.   NTFS4DOS, NTFSDOS, and perhaps Bart PE(?), 
or something along those lines, if my memory serves me.

> All you would have to have done was install XP on another drive
> then slave the old drive to it...and all the data would have been there
> Hope you kept the drive > The reason the data was lost was simply
> because you did not understand NTFS.
>
> No need to be paranoid...
> I'd leave your machine as NTFS and you can always recover the data from
> your win2k machine or from a live Linux cd
>
> That said: if you insist...you can convert NTFS to Fat32 by using
> Partition Magic. In theory it will work...but there is always
> the possibility of failure...especially with the boot sector...
> so I'd not risk it.

Same here.   :-)
And one can always create a bootable DOS flash disk for some dedicated DOS 
applications, provided the PC isn't too old. 


0
Bill
4/27/2010 8:17:19 PM

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message 
news:edePlak5KHA.1888@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> philo wrote:
> There are *some* utilties that will allow access to NTFS partitions from 
> DOS or Win98, at least as I recall.   NTFS4DOS, NTFSDOS, and perhaps Bart 
> PE(?), or something along those lines, if my memory serves me.

The Bart PE boot CD is built on the basis of WinXP and can access NTFS 
partitions natively. This is why it is such a superb tool for 
administrators. 

0
Pegasus
4/27/2010 9:09:43 PM
Bill in Co. wrote:
> philo wrote:
>> mister_friendly@the-newzgroups.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:37:47 +0300, John Doue <notwobe@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/27/2010

 >snipped for brevity<
was doing.
>>>
>>> I spent a full 10 or 11 hours one day trying to get that thing to run.
>>> I used the repair cd, I tried to reinstall XP on top of the failed
>>> boot.  I booted from Dos floppies, I even installed Win98 on another
>>> drive, and tried to connect the XP drive as a slave.  No matter what I
>>> did, it was hopeless.  He ended up losing everything.
>> Big mistake
>>
>> No way could you have accessed an NTFS partition from win98 or dos
> 
> There are *some* utilties that will allow access to NTFS partitions from DOS 
> or Win98, at least as I recall.   NTFS4DOS, NTFSDOS, and perhaps Bart PE(?), 
> or something along those lines, if my memory serves me.
> 
>> All you would have to have done was install XP on another drive
>> then slave the old drive to it...and all the data would have been there
>> Hope you kept the drive > The reason the data was lost was simply
>> because you did not understand NTFS.
>>
>> No need to be paranoid...
>> I'd leave your machine as NTFS and you can always recover the data from
>> your win2k machine or from a live Linux cd
>>
>> That said: if you insist...you can convert NTFS to Fat32 by using
>> Partition Magic. In theory it will work...but there is always
>> the possibility of failure...especially with the boot sector...
>> so I'd not risk it.
> 
> Same here.   :-)
> And one can always create a bootable DOS flash disk for some dedicated DOS 
> applications, provided the PC isn't too old. 
> 
> 

Yes there are many ways the OP could have recovered the data...
it was all still there...
he should have asked for help...as the data could have been easily and 
quickly recovered...

I find stories like this a bit scary!
0
philo
4/28/2010 8:14:23 PM
Reply:

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I want to know (via an event sound) that my cursor movement has bumped the left edge of the spreadsheet. I am entering thousand of rows of data, and it would help if there was a event sound when I returned the cursor to the left edge. I have this feature in 123, and find it helpfull. Put this in the sheet module: Private Sub Worksheet_SelectionChange(ByVal Target As Range) Static ColOld As Integer If Target.Column = 1 And ColOld > 1 Then Beep ColOld = Target.Column End Sub -- Earl Kiosterud mvpearl omitthisword at verizon period net ------------------------------------------- "m...

Time Change
Since the daylight saving time change. We are having trouble with users calender appointments being 1 hour off. We are using Exchange 5.5/Outlook 2000. In Outlook we had them check the box indicating adjustment for daylight saving time. After 2 days the time changed back an hour again. This seems to be only happening with our XP users only. Any ideas what is causing this. Thanks in advance. What patch level is Office XP at? --� Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook] Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. Due to the (insert latest virus name here) virus, all mail sent to...

Want to Add more Sub description Field
How I can add more sub description field like 1,2,3,4,5 regards Saleem Suri Salaam Saleem, You have only limit up to 3 fields in RMS 1,2,3 sub-description also you can use the extended description and there is main description for the item. so Altogether you have upto 5 description limit and I think that is enough. Let me know if this won't fulfill your requirements else use the Item Notes for more description. Rate if like Regards Akber "Saleem Suri" wrote: > How I can add more sub description field like 1,2,3,4,5 > > regards > Saleem Suri Salam Akbar ...

Excel wants to create a page break in every cell!
After saving revisions in an Excel worksheet, I get a popup message that states "Margins do not fit page size". After clicking "ok" (because this is my only choice) a page break is automatically created in ever cell. At times(depending on the sizeof the work sheet) it can be over 100 pages with a page size 14% or smaller. Why does this happen, and how can I avoid it? I saw this suggestion in a different forum. Try closing excel. Clean up your windows temp folder Windows start button|Run type: %temp% and hit enter Clean all those files that you ca...

Changing data types
I am trying to use ODBC to query an Excel spreadsheet. The ODBC driver looks at the first 8 rows in each column to determine the datatype. I have mixed numbers and text, but the driver thinks the column is numeric. As a result, text entries are not returned. My solution is to change the format of the cells to Text. This works, but I have to reenter each numeric value in order for Excel to see them as Text. Is there a quick shortcut for reentering text in selected cells? Thank you very much. Rick Quatro Once you have imported the data, check that the format in these cells is not set to Text...

How to do I change text to caps.
Hello, I have a column with names in it. The names are in lower case. I wan to change all letter in the name to capital letters. How can I do thi without having to type all the names again. Thank you for your help -- Message posted from http://www.ExcelForum.com Assuming your names are in column A, in column B, use: =UPPER(A1) You can also capitalize only the first letter of each word by using: =PROPER(A1) HTH -- Michael J. Malinsky Pittsburgh, PA "I am a bear of very little brain, and long words bother me." -- AA Milne, Winnie the Pooh "EVRPAGING >" ...

WANTED
WTB: I BUY SOFTWARE - CHECK AROUND - YOU PROBABLY HAVE SOME OF THE BELOW TO SELL TO ME. SEE A LIST OF SOME OF THE SOFTWARE THAT I AM BUYING! I AM BUYING ALL OF THE BELOW. THE MORE QUANTITY THE BETTER! I am looking to buy large quantities of Windows 7 Professional Upgrade Dell DVDs with unactivated COAs included in a SEALED package I am looking to buy quantities of SYMANTEC NORTON ANTI VIRUS, NORTON INTERNET SECURITY AND 360 OEM AND RETAIL BOXES I will buy 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007 and 2006. If you have good quantities setting around and no longer need send me detai...

Customized Changes to Toolbars
How do you load a customized toolbar? I do know that when you make changes to a toolbar it saves it as the file excel.xlb, but I don't know how to get it back into excel. Thanks. gall Manual customizations to Toolbars and Menus are saved in a file named *.XLB XL2000 and 2002 *.xlb file will be in Documents and Settings\yourname\application data\microsoft\Excel and be Excel9.xlb or Excel10.xlb Excel 97 in C:\Windows and named username.XLB Excel 2003 same as 2000 and 2002 and named Excel11.XLB Perhaps this file is going astray? If on a server, this can happen. Also if on a serve...

Change field type to lookup column
Can you (and if so, how?) change the data type of a populated field to lookup from a table without losing all the previously input data? -- savannah Do not change the field in the table but in your form use a list box. -- KARL DEWEY Build a little - Test a little "savannah" wrote: > Can you (and if so, how?) change the data type of a populated field to lookup > from a table without losing all the previously input data? > -- > savannah Thanks Karl. However, forms are not being used at this time. Data is entered directly on the form. I do understand that this f...

get/change and SY_User Company_Access_REL errors
Hello, I am testing a conversion from GP7.5 to GP8.0 and after the installation is completed and all data is transfered and the nesessary scripts run I am getting the following errors: when signing in with regular user: "A get/change first operation on table 'SY_Users_MSTR'failed accessing SQL data" when signing in with the 'sa' account: "SY_User_company_Access_REL'failed accessing SQL Data" Any thoughts on what might be causing this? Hi Are you transfering the data from 7.5 to 8 or have you done a v 8.00 upgrade from GP Utils? I dont recomm...

Requery without visibility change
I have a on Timer event on a form. Within that logic I am performing a requery function on a number of fields. When you requery the field goes from visable to not visable back to visable with the refresh totals. My problem is I am doing this requery on 26 fields on form. It's ALOT of blinking. A bit distracting. Is there a way to perform the Requery without the visibility change. just have it refresh the value. Much appreciate as always..... On Fri, 28 May 2010 07:26:02 -0700, stickandrock <stickandrock@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote: Maybe you can wrap y...

Check boxes
Hi---I am setting up a form with various check boxes. I want to set up a range of check boxes so if any of these boxes are checked, then one corresponding check box if also checked. On the flip side, if none in the range of boxes are checked, then the one corresponding box is also not checked. I hope this can be done with a formula or conditional formatting, instead of a macro....if it takes a macro, whoever resonds to this question, please explain in easy terms---I don't have a lot o fmacro experience. Thanks!!! A boolean checkbox reflects the TRUE / FALSE value of the cell it ...

Change element "AnyType
Hi all, i'm serializing an arraylist like the following with an "Role" object as it's item. ----------------------------------------------------- ----[code] ArrayList ar = new ArrayList(); ar.Add( new Role( "Admin" ) ); ar.Add( new Role( "Test" ) ); StringWriter writer = new StringWriter(); XmlSerializer serializer = new XmlSerializer( typeof( ArrayList), null, new Type[] { typeof(Role) }, new XmlRootAttribute( "roles" ), null ); serializer.Serialize( writer, ar ); ----[result] <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-1...