visual studio c++ .net 2005 and mfc?

I've been using VC++ 6.0 and MFC for a few years now and I'm planning to get 
VC++ .NET 2005 when it comes out.

I've heard MFC will be included in VC++ 2005, but I haven't been able to 
find anything about it on Microsoft's site. Which versions will it be 
included in? I know it's not in the Express version. If MFC will be 
included, where can I find what changes there will be? Will MFC continue to 
be supported in the future? If anyone's got a direct link to any MFC and 
VC++ .NET 2005 information please post it. And I'm so confused to which 
product line has C++/VB/C#/...  and which just has C++. If anyone can clear 
this up, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks! 


0
Alex
4/8/2005 5:39:56 AM
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Except for the Express versions, the regular VS.NET 2005 versions will 
contain MFC and ATL. Thre aren't too many enhancements though - probably a 
few bug fixes and a few other minor changes.

-- 
Regards,
Nish [VC++ MVP]
http://www.voidnish.com
http://blog.voidnish.com


"Alex" <skyriverfly @ yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:Od2Fk1$OFHA.3076@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> I've been using VC++ 6.0 and MFC for a few years now and I'm planning to 
> get VC++ .NET 2005 when it comes out.
>
> I've heard MFC will be included in VC++ 2005, but I haven't been able to 
> find anything about it on Microsoft's site. Which versions will it be 
> included in? I know it's not in the Express version. If MFC will be 
> included, where can I find what changes there will be? Will MFC continue 
> to be supported in the future? If anyone's got a direct link to any MFC 
> and VC++ .NET 2005 information please post it. And I'm so confused to 
> which product line has C++/VB/C#/...  and which just has C++. If anyone 
> can clear this up, I'd appreciate it.
> Thanks!
> 


0
nish (347)
4/8/2005 5:48:27 AM
It is reasonable to expect MFC will be supported into the far future; there are too many
massive applications written using it. 

You will probably be unhappy with VS.NET 2005 for the reasons most of us have expressed
here: its GUI was designed by an idiot, who never once ever actually wrote code, or he
would know how real programmers actually want to use the tools. Apparently the VS.NET GUI
interface is a cult religion in Microsoft at some level, and everything has to look like
it, and nobody seems to question the fact that it violates nearly every good GUI design
priniciple that ever existed, including the fact that it violates a huge number of
Microsoft's own design guidelines, redefines the fundamental behavior of basic concepts of
Windows interfaces. 

But there are lots of really cool features, but I saw most of these demonstrated under NDA
and don't know what I'm allowed to talk about at this point.

I am not aware of any major changes in MFC from VS.NET 2003 to VS.NET 2005. However, you
will find a lot of changes from VS6, all for the good. It is a shame that the improvements
are completely negated by the horrible interface.
					joe

On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:39:56 -0500, "Alex" <skyriverfly @ yahoo.com> wrote:

>I've been using VC++ 6.0 and MFC for a few years now and I'm planning to get 
>VC++ .NET 2005 when it comes out.
>
>I've heard MFC will be included in VC++ 2005, but I haven't been able to 
>find anything about it on Microsoft's site. Which versions will it be 
>included in? I know it's not in the Express version. If MFC will be 
>included, where can I find what changes there will be? Will MFC continue to 
>be supported in the future? If anyone's got a direct link to any MFC and 
>VC++ .NET 2005 information please post it. And I'm so confused to which 
>product line has C++/VB/C#/...  and which just has C++. If anyone can clear 
>this up, I'd appreciate it.
>Thanks! 
>

Joseph M. Newcomer [MVP]
email: newcomer@flounder.com
Web: http://www.flounder.com
MVP Tips: http://www.flounder.com/mvp_tips.htm
0
newcomer (15974)
4/8/2005 4:12:26 PM
"Joseph M. Newcomer" <newcomer@flounder.com> wrote in message 
news:otad515uduitcjguom1ergr486jg5m5vnf@4ax.com...
> It is reasonable to expect MFC will be supported into the far future; 
> there are too many
> massive applications written using it.
>
> You will probably be unhappy with VS.NET 2005 for the reasons most of us 
> have expressed
> here: its GUI was designed by an idiot, who never once ever actually wrote 
> code, or he
> would know how real programmers actually want to use the tools. Apparently 
> the VS.NET GUI
> interface is a cult religion in Microsoft at some level, and everything 
> has to look like
> it, and nobody seems to question the fact that it violates nearly every 
> good GUI design
> priniciple that ever existed, including the fact that it violates a huge 
> number of
> Microsoft's own design guidelines, redefines the fundamental behavior of 
> basic concepts of
> Windows interfaces.
>
> But there are lots of really cool features, but I saw most of these 
> demonstrated under NDA
> and don't know what I'm allowed to talk about at this point.
>
> I am not aware of any major changes in MFC from VS.NET 2003 to VS.NET 
> 2005. However, you
> will find a lot of changes from VS6, all for the good. It is a shame that 
> the improvements
> are completely negated by the horrible interface.

I was afraid to hear that. I've tried .Net 2003 and really hated the new 
interface. I was hoping VS.Net 2005 would have improved, but I guess not. I 
wish it were more customizable. I also use directx, which doesn't support VS 
6.0 anymore, so I'm being forced to switch soon. I guess i avoided .Net long 
enough. Maybe I'll get used to the new shortcuts/interface...

alex 


0
Alex
4/8/2005 6:13:04 PM
Has there ever been a Microsoft response to the complaints about VS.NET from 
users ? I have never seen one.

If they could just add ClassWizard and ditch the absurd AddVariable wizard, it 
would be a great start.

VS.NET does produce more robust programs. I have been using it a lot lately as I 
am porting my code over from VS6. I tend to ignore their wizards and use cut and 
paste a lot to add control variables and message map entries etc.

Another thing I hate is in resource view having to work out what the icons mean 
to do things like align controls.



Joseph M. Newcomer wrote:
> It is reasonable to expect MFC will be supported into the far future; there are too many
> massive applications written using it. 
> 
> You will probably be unhappy with VS.NET 2005 for the reasons most of us have expressed
> here: its GUI was designed by an idiot, who never once ever actually wrote code, or he
> would know how real programmers actually want to use the tools. Apparently the VS.NET GUI
> interface is a cult religion in Microsoft at some level, and everything has to look like
> it, and nobody seems to question the fact that it violates nearly every good GUI design
> priniciple that ever existed, including the fact that it violates a huge number of
> Microsoft's own design guidelines, redefines the fundamental behavior of basic concepts of
> Windows interfaces. 
> 
> But there are lots of really cool features, but I saw most of these demonstrated under NDA
> and don't know what I'm allowed to talk about at this point.
> 
> I am not aware of any major changes in MFC from VS.NET 2003 to VS.NET 2005. However, you
> will find a lot of changes from VS6, all for the good. It is a shame that the improvements
> are completely negated by the horrible interface.
> 					joe
> 
> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:39:56 -0500, "Alex" <skyriverfly @ yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I've been using VC++ 6.0 and MFC for a few years now and I'm planning to get 
>>VC++ .NET 2005 when it comes out.
>>
>>I've heard MFC will be included in VC++ 2005, but I haven't been able to 
>>find anything about it on Microsoft's site. Which versions will it be 
>>included in? I know it's not in the Express version. If MFC will be 
>>included, where can I find what changes there will be? Will MFC continue to 
>>be supported in the future? If anyone's got a direct link to any MFC and 
>>VC++ .NET 2005 information please post it. And I'm so confused to which 
>>product line has C++/VB/C#/...  and which just has C++. If anyone can clear 
>>this up, I'd appreciate it.
>>Thanks! 
>>
> 
> 
> Joseph M. Newcomer [MVP]
> email: newcomer@flounder.com
> Web: http://www.flounder.com
> MVP Tips: http://www.flounder.com/mvp_tips.htm
0
isemmel (236)
4/8/2005 8:47:42 PM
Yes, a real ClassWizard like the 6.0 ClassWizard would be a notable improvement. Add
Variable shows that the person who wrote this code not once in his entire life had to add
a variable (did you see the post where I discovered why it is so slow coming up? IT SPINS
UP THE CDROM IN MY DRIVE!)

Removing most of the modality would help. Allowing us to say "Control-X with no selection
means do nothing" like every other product, instead of meaning "cut line", would be a
great improvement. 

Ditching the absurd "Properties" list in favor of a VS6-like tabbed properties dialog
would be another significant improvement. There are so many things wrong with the
properties dialog it is impossible to list them all yet one more time, but it is far and
away the poorest pervasive part of the design.

Microsoft's response to this, as far as I can tell, is to ignore all of us, and hope that
we will come into conformance and like it. There has not been the slightest hint that
anyone wants to hear from us. Back in 2003, at the MVP Summit, we met with all-but-one of
the VS team (guess who didn't have the guts to show up! Right, the designer of the new
GUI!) and we beat them up pretty solidly. Result? Nothing. No detectable change.  (I had
to miss the 2004 summit because of a court date, where I was an expert witness in a
copyright violation case [the defense was said to have violated a copyright, but I was
able to show that I had violated the same copyright of the program a decade before it was
written, by using common progrmaming technqiues we all know...], and I'm going to miss the
2005 because it is scheduled on top of the international computer working group I'm
hosting. So I've not had a chance to meet with people and say "why are you ignoring us?").

It occurred to me last week: if their automation is as good as they say it is, we should
be able to write OUR OWN ClassWizard to replace their crap. If we can't, the automation
has failed. Problem is, I'm not a VBA writer, but if there's anyone out there who would
like to collaborate on such a project, maybe we can build one and publish it....
						joe

On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 06:47:42 +1000, Ian Semmel <isemmel@removejunkmailrocketcomp.com.au>
wrote:

>Has there ever been a Microsoft response to the complaints about VS.NET from 
>users ? I have never seen one.
>
>If they could just add ClassWizard and ditch the absurd AddVariable wizard, it 
>would be a great start.
>
>VS.NET does produce more robust programs. I have been using it a lot lately as I 
>am porting my code over from VS6. I tend to ignore their wizards and use cut and 
>paste a lot to add control variables and message map entries etc.
>
>Another thing I hate is in resource view having to work out what the icons mean 
>to do things like align controls.
>
>
>
>Joseph M. Newcomer wrote:
>> It is reasonable to expect MFC will be supported into the far future; there are too many
>> massive applications written using it. 
>> 
>> You will probably be unhappy with VS.NET 2005 for the reasons most of us have expressed
>> here: its GUI was designed by an idiot, who never once ever actually wrote code, or he
>> would know how real programmers actually want to use the tools. Apparently the VS.NET GUI
>> interface is a cult religion in Microsoft at some level, and everything has to look like
>> it, and nobody seems to question the fact that it violates nearly every good GUI design
>> priniciple that ever existed, including the fact that it violates a huge number of
>> Microsoft's own design guidelines, redefines the fundamental behavior of basic concepts of
>> Windows interfaces. 
>> 
>> But there are lots of really cool features, but I saw most of these demonstrated under NDA
>> and don't know what I'm allowed to talk about at this point.
>> 
>> I am not aware of any major changes in MFC from VS.NET 2003 to VS.NET 2005. However, you
>> will find a lot of changes from VS6, all for the good. It is a shame that the improvements
>> are completely negated by the horrible interface.
>> 					joe
>> 
>> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:39:56 -0500, "Alex" <skyriverfly @ yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>I've been using VC++ 6.0 and MFC for a few years now and I'm planning to get 
>>>VC++ .NET 2005 when it comes out.
>>>
>>>I've heard MFC will be included in VC++ 2005, but I haven't been able to 
>>>find anything about it on Microsoft's site. Which versions will it be 
>>>included in? I know it's not in the Express version. If MFC will be 
>>>included, where can I find what changes there will be? Will MFC continue to 
>>>be supported in the future? If anyone's got a direct link to any MFC and 
>>>VC++ .NET 2005 information please post it. And I'm so confused to which 
>>>product line has C++/VB/C#/...  and which just has C++. If anyone can clear 
>>>this up, I'd appreciate it.
>>>Thanks! 
>>>
>> 
>> 
>> Joseph M. Newcomer [MVP]
>> email: newcomer@flounder.com
>> Web: http://www.flounder.com
>> MVP Tips: http://www.flounder.com/mvp_tips.htm

Joseph M. Newcomer [MVP]
email: newcomer@flounder.com
Web: http://www.flounder.com
MVP Tips: http://www.flounder.com/mvp_tips.htm
0
newcomer (15974)
4/9/2005 4:15:58 PM
In article news:<v9vf515bh3b6posans4dqvd10tqgobdcvn@4ax.com>, Joseph M. 
Newcomer wrote:
> Ditching the absurd "Properties" list in favor of a VS6-like tabbed
> properties dialog would be another significant improvement. There are
> so many things wrong with the properties dialog it is impossible to
> list them all yet one more time, but it is far and away the poorest
> pervasive part of the design.

But, Joseph, you surely realize that the "properties" list is there for 
the convenience of VB programmers who are now expected to share an IDE 
with the big boys? It's just one little sacrifice we VC programmers have 
to make to welcome the new guys into the fold <smile>.

Oh, sorry, I used "VB" and "programmers" in the same sentence ... what was 
I thinking of?

> ... if their automation is as good as they say it is, we should
> be able to write OUR OWN ClassWizard to replace their crap. If we
> can't, the automation has failed. Problem is, I'm not a VBA writer,
> but ...

If the automation were any good at all we'd be able to write our own 
wizard in C++, and not have to use VBA. Maybe we can, and I just haven't 
found the documentation for it yet .... or the examples ...

Cheers,
 Daniel.
 


0
wastebasket (364)
4/10/2005 1:54:32 PM
Daniel,

"Daniel James" <wastebasket@nospam.aaisp.org> wrote in message 
news:VA.00000ae9.43aebb5f@nospam.aaisp.org...
> In article news:<v9vf515bh3b6posans4dqvd10tqgobdcvn@4ax.com>, Joseph M.

> Oh, sorry, I used "VB" and "programmers" in the same sentence ... what was
> I thinking of?

Oh, that was mean... :o)

Tom 


0
tserface (3860)
4/12/2005 3:23:55 PM
Tom,

>Oh, that was mean... :o)


How appropriate. It reminded me of you in 2003(?) summit about
Developers vs Programmers.

-----
Ajay Kalra
ajaykalra@yahoo.com

0
ajaykalra (6841)
4/12/2005 6:25:44 PM
No it wasn't ... it was appropriate ... ANY flavor of BASIC is 
scatalogically bovine.

-- 
The personal opinion of
Gary G. Little

"Tom Serface" <tserface@msn.com> wrote in message 
news:e9DmkO3PFHA.1172@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Daniel,
>
> "Daniel James" <wastebasket@nospam.aaisp.org> wrote in message 
> news:VA.00000ae9.43aebb5f@nospam.aaisp.org...
>> In article news:<v9vf515bh3b6posans4dqvd10tqgobdcvn@4ax.com>, Joseph M.
>
>> Oh, sorry, I used "VB" and "programmers" in the same sentence ... what 
>> was
>> I thinking of?
>
> Oh, that was mean... :o)
>
> Tom
> 


0
4/12/2005 8:30:28 PM
In article news:<EdW6e.714$zq4.124@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, Gary G. 
Little wrote:
> ... ANY flavor of BASIC is scatalogically bovine.

I am on record as saying -- many years ago -- that BASIC (and I wasn't 
talking about VB, obviously) was the IDEAL programming language, provided:

1. The whole program could be displayed on screen without scrolling.
2. You only wanted ever to run that program once (and never be able to 
refer back to it (to check the answer, for example)).

I still maintain that BASIC is well-suited for such a task, though it's not 
the language I'd use nowadays if I had a task I felt it was appropriate to 
tackle in such a cavalier fashion.

Cheers,
 Daniel.
 


0
wastebasket (364)
4/13/2005 9:50:34 AM
Reply:

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Hi, I have already set the security to access the customization tools (Modifier and Visual Basic Editor) for my user login. Why is both of this options still dim -- I can't click on these items (Modifier and Visual Basic Editor) because it is disabled. Please advise. Thanks a lot. it wont be available until you have purchased it - it is a separate module. You will get a new set of reg keys that will activate the choices. HS "Dolly" <Dolly@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:1553009B-B7A0-4D54-AAD1-ADD7F17D49A2@microsoft.com... > Hi, > > I have a...

VB.NET CF, Excel 2003, and XML
Hello, I am trying to open the contents of a dataset (contained in a pocket pc) as an xml file in Excel 2003. I created an XMLTextWriter and exported the dataset like this: DataSet.WriteXml(XMLTextWriter, XmlWriteMode.WriteSchema) Office 2003 was unable to open the file properly and confused the header with the data. If I use the XmlWriteMode.IgnoreSchema parameter, I am still unable to get the columns labelled properly. In the XML source window, I load the schema through the XML Maps... button. When I import the data, it says no schema is specified and creates a NEW map with ns1...

using money 2005 from two different user accounts
Hi, I just upgraded to Money Deluxe 2005. My computer is using the Microsoft XP SP2 operating system. My wife and I have user accounts on the computer customized to our preferences and we would like to be able to use Money from either user login. I installede using My login and configured Money. Then later when using her login to open money it started with the screen as if it were a new install totally seperate from the one I had previously done. Is there a way around this, where when she opens money all the changes made under my user name would be there, or vice versa? Have you tried ...

xpath again
Hi again, I'm using the following xpath (works in visualizer) with a SelectSingleNode("xpath") statement. //Station[@name="Station1"]/(WI[Boards/Board[@sn="583230"][@finish]])[la st()]]/@order Problem is I get an error "expression passed to this method should result in a NodeSet". Of course, that (sort of) makes sense to me now (I suppose just an attribute couldn't be a nodeset, but how would I go about: I need to determine if and what <WI> element is the parent of the last <Board> is according to the above xpath. I then need to ...