Database Queries with database views, that base on many database t

I created 2 database views.  Each of them uses 256 database tables. 
From every database table only one column is used in the select list of the 
view. Every database table has one column which is used for the join.
Each database table has 5 rows. The database tables have not any foreign 
keys and indexes.
Both views works fine. When I use the database views in a query like this: 
SELECT v1.*, v2.* FROM v1, v2 WHERE v1.id=v2.id
I should get 5 rows with 512 columns in the resultset.

But I get the following error from the SQL-Server (after about 5 minutes):
Msg 8621, Level 17, State 2, Line 1. 
The query processor ran out of stack space during query optimization. Please 
simplify the query. 

I use MS SQL-Server 2008 (10.0.2531). I get the same error in MS SQL-Server 
2005 SP3 (9.0.4053).
The SQL-Server has 16 GByte RAM.

My question: Is it a wrong message? Is there a limitation of the SQL-Server?
Is it possible to increase the size of stack space? And how?
The answer is important for my design.

Thank you for help.




0
Utf
6/10/2010 3:37:46 PM
sqlserver.server 1327 articles. 0 followers. Follow

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Sorry, the error code is:
Meldung 8621, Ebene 17, Status 1, Zeile 1
Msg 8621, Level 17, State 1, Line 1. 

"Juwe17" wrote:

> I created 2 database views.  Each of them uses 256 database tables. 
> From every database table only one column is used in the select list of the 
> view. Every database table has one column which is used for the join.
> Each database table has 5 rows. The database tables have not any foreign 
> keys and indexes.
> Both views works fine. When I use the database views in a query like this: 
> SELECT v1.*, v2.* FROM v1, v2 WHERE v1.id=v2.id
> I should get 5 rows with 512 columns in the resultset.
> 
> But I get the following error from the SQL-Server (after about 5 minutes):
> Msg 8621, Level 17, State 2, Line 1. 
> The query processor ran out of stack space during query optimization. Please 
> simplify the query. 
> 
> I use MS SQL-Server 2008 (10.0.2531). I get the same error in MS SQL-Server 
> 2005 SP3 (9.0.4053).
> The SQL-Server has 16 GByte RAM.
> 
> My question: Is it a wrong message? Is there a limitation of the SQL-Server?
> Is it possible to increase the size of stack space? And how?
> The answer is important for my design.
> 
> Thank you for help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
0
Utf
6/10/2010 3:59:18 PM
Juwe17 (Juwe17@discussions.microsoft.com) writes:
> I created 2 database views.  Each of them uses 256 database tables. From
> every database table only one column is used in the select list of the 
> view. Every database table has one column which is used for the join. 
> Each database table has 5 rows. The database tables have not any foreign
> keys and indexes. 
> Both views works fine. When I use the database views in a query like this: 
> SELECT v1.*, v2.* FROM v1, v2 WHERE v1.id=v2.id
> I should get 5 rows with 512 columns in the resultset.
> 
> But I get the following error from the SQL-Server (after about 5 minutes):
> Msg 8621, Level 17, State 2, Line 1. 
> The query processor ran out of stack space during query optimization.
> Please simplify the query. 
> 
> I use MS SQL-Server 2008 (10.0.2531). I get the same error in MS
> SQL-Server 2005 SP3 (9.0.4053). 
> The SQL-Server has 16 GByte RAM.

Is this 32-bit or 64-bit SQL Server? If this is 32-bit SQL Server, you
are constraint to the lower 2GB, and maybe also to the mysterious
area known as memtoleave. It may help to add the startup option -g 512
to SQL Server. Even better is to go 64-bit.

> My question: Is it a wrong message? Is there a limitation of the
> SQL-Server? Is it possible to increase the size of stack space? And
> how? 
> The answer is important for my design.
 
Hm, while the theoretical max of number of tables in a single query
in SQL Server is 1024, if memory serves, I'm not sure that this is a
very good way to go. What are you trying to achieve? A partitioned
view?


-- 
Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

Links for SQL Server Books Online:
SQL 2008: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlserver/cc514207.aspx
SQL 2005: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlserver/bb895970.aspx
SQL 2000: http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/previousversions/books.mspx

0
Erland
6/10/2010 8:40:47 PM
not really answering the question but I cannot imagine an entity diagram that
would require parent-child relationships across 256 tables.

Rather than get hung up on why this view doesn't work, I would be asking for
the data structure to be reviewed.

I suspect that a large number of your 256 tables are holding the same
information but are partitioned by something that is common to all the tables
(e.g. Week) and that the number of tables could be substantially reduced by
adding an additional key column.


Juwe17 wrote:
>I created 2 database views.  Each of them uses 256 database tables. 
>From every database table only one column is used in the select list of the 
>view. Every database table has one column which is used for the join.
>Each database table has 5 rows. The database tables have not any foreign 
>keys and indexes.
>Both views works fine. When I use the database views in a query like this: 
>SELECT v1.*, v2.* FROM v1, v2 WHERE v1.id=v2.id
>I should get 5 rows with 512 columns in the resultset.
>
>But I get the following error from the SQL-Server (after about 5 minutes):
>Msg 8621, Level 17, State 2, Line 1. 
>The query processor ran out of stack space during query optimization. Please 
>simplify the query. 
>
>I use MS SQL-Server 2008 (10.0.2531). I get the same error in MS SQL-Server 
>2005 SP3 (9.0.4053).
>The SQL-Server has 16 GByte RAM.
>
>My question: Is it a wrong message? Is there a limitation of the SQL-Server?
>Is it possible to increase the size of stack space? And how?
>The answer is important for my design.
>
>Thank you for help.

-- 
Message posted via SQLMonster.com
http://www.sqlmonster.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/sql-server/201006/1

0
obiron
6/11/2010 12:33:09 PM
I use 32-bit SQL Server. But I will try 64-bit SQL Server. Thank you for the 
hint.

I thought: The count of tables per SELECT statement is only limited by 
available resources.
(I found this under http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms143432.aspx)

What I am trying to achieve? 
The user of an application should be able to define dynamically his business 
object. He can choose attributes of his business object. I don't know how 
many attributes. He defines/chooses the data type of such an attribute. May 
be he needs attributes of data type varchar(8000). This is near die limit of 
bytes per row in an data table of MS SQL-Server. So it is the best to say:  
One data table for one attribute. 

For the application it's no problem to handle the business object. The user 
can insert/update data for his business object.
Reporting is the problem. The user should find his business object in the 
database. The idea is to give him parts of his business object in form of 
data views. Every data view has 256 attributes/data tables (the maximum of 
tables in a view).
So I have a 1-to-1-to-1....-relationship across 256 data tables in one data 
view. And if user has defined more than 256 attributes I have a 
1-to-1-relationship across the two data views (in worst case both views have 
256 tables).


"Erland Sommarskog" wrote:

> Juwe17 (Juwe17@discussions.microsoft.com) writes:
> > I created 2 database views.  Each of them uses 256 database tables. From
> > every database table only one column is used in the select list of the 
> > view. Every database table has one column which is used for the join. 
> > Each database table has 5 rows. The database tables have not any foreign
> > keys and indexes. 
> > Both views works fine. When I use the database views in a query like this: 
> > SELECT v1.*, v2.* FROM v1, v2 WHERE v1.id=v2.id
> > I should get 5 rows with 512 columns in the resultset.
> > 
> > But I get the following error from the SQL-Server (after about 5 minutes):
> > Msg 8621, Level 17, State 2, Line 1. 
> > The query processor ran out of stack space during query optimization.
> > Please simplify the query. 
> > 
> > I use MS SQL-Server 2008 (10.0.2531). I get the same error in MS
> > SQL-Server 2005 SP3 (9.0.4053). 
> > The SQL-Server has 16 GByte RAM.
> 
> Is this 32-bit or 64-bit SQL Server? If this is 32-bit SQL Server, you
> are constraint to the lower 2GB, and maybe also to the mysterious
> area known as memtoleave. It may help to add the startup option -g 512
> to SQL Server. Even better is to go 64-bit.
> 
> > My question: Is it a wrong message? Is there a limitation of the
> > SQL-Server? Is it possible to increase the size of stack space? And
> > how? 
> > The answer is important for my design.
>  
> Hm, while the theoretical max of number of tables in a single query
> in SQL Server is 1024, if memory serves, I'm not sure that this is a
> very good way to go. What are you trying to achieve? A partitioned
> view?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se
> 
> Links for SQL Server Books Online:
> SQL 2008: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlserver/cc514207.aspx
> SQL 2005: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlserver/bb895970.aspx
> SQL 2000: http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/previousversions/books.mspx
> 
> .
> 
0
Utf
6/14/2010 10:02:22 AM
Juwe17 (Juwe17@discussions.microsoft.com) writes:
> What I am trying to achieve? 
> The user of an application should be able to define dynamically his
> business object. He can choose attributes of his business object. I
> don't know how many attributes. He defines/chooses the data type of such
> an attribute. May be he needs attributes of data type varchar(8000).
> This is near die limit of bytes per row in an data table of MS
> SQL-Server. So it is the best to say:  
> One data table for one attribute. 
 
No, it is not.

First of all, the entire idea of a users defining their objects is
questionable. Yes, this requirement does appear in many systems, and
no matter how you do it, all solutions has it cons. But in most
cases yo� should try to avoid this. Maybe all that is needed is a
good analysis of the business requirements and a good database design.

But, OK, let's say that you need dynamic attributes and that you have 
decided that you will implement this by changing the schema. Having one
table per attribute is a design that just will not scale. And there is
no need for it. Watch this:

   CREATE TABLE bigstuff( 
      a varchar(8000) NOT NULL,
      b varchar(8000) NOT NULL,
      c varchar(8000) NOT NULL,
      d varchar(8000) NOT NULL,
      e varchar(8000) NOT NULL)
   go
   INSERT bigstuff(a, b, c, d, e)
      VALUES (replicate('a', 8000),
      replicate('d', 8000),
      replicate('c', 8000),
      replicate('d', 8000),
      replicate('e', 8000))
   go
   drop table bigstuff

This runs without an error on SQL 2005 and SQL 2008. On SQL 2000 it
will fail, but even there it would be poor design. Just because a user
may add a varchar(8000) does not mean that he will and if he does, it
does not mean that he will always add 8000 bytes to it.

On SQL 2000 you would maybe need a scheme so that you can split 
data over several tables, but on SQL 2005/2008, there is little reason.


-- 
Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

Links for SQL Server Books Online:
SQL 2008: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlserver/cc514207.aspx
SQL 2005: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlserver/bb895970.aspx
SQL 2000: http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/previousversions/books.mspx

0
Erland
6/15/2010 9:02:09 PM
I have tried 64-bit SQL Server with 8GB RAM. The results are acceptable good.
A query that joins the two data views (each having 256 tables and each data 
table having 9500 rows) takes about 3 and a half minute. This is enough for 
me.
It is only for an reporting, which takes place very seldom. This much I know 
about the use cases.
The views are the interface. The user picks the data with SPSS or other 
tools and works there.

A good analysis of the business requirements is only possible, if I know the 
user and his special business requirements. And I must know his business 
requirements tomorrow.
I have simplified the problem for communicate in this forum. There are other 
reasons for the decision "one data table - one attribute".

Thank you for the hint about the data type varchar in SQL 2005/2008.
I think it's similar to datatype "TEXT", which only needs 16Byte per row to 
handle it?



"Erland Sommarskog" wrote:

> Juwe17 (Juwe17@discussions.microsoft.com) writes:
> > What I am trying to achieve? 
> > The user of an application should be able to define dynamically his
> > business object. He can choose attributes of his business object. I
> > don't know how many attributes. He defines/chooses the data type of such
> > an attribute. May be he needs attributes of data type varchar(8000).
> > This is near die limit of bytes per row in an data table of MS
> > SQL-Server. So it is the best to say:  
> > One data table for one attribute. 
>  
> No, it is not.
> 
> First of all, the entire idea of a users defining their objects is
> questionable. Yes, this requirement does appear in many systems, and
> no matter how you do it, all solutions has it cons. But in most
> cases yoú should try to avoid this. Maybe all that is needed is a
> good analysis of the business requirements and a good database design.
> 
> But, OK, let's say that you need dynamic attributes and that you have 
> decided that you will implement this by changing the schema. Having one
> table per attribute is a design that just will not scale. And there is
> no need for it. Watch this:
> 
>    CREATE TABLE bigstuff( 
>       a varchar(8000) NOT NULL,
>       b varchar(8000) NOT NULL,
>       c varchar(8000) NOT NULL,
>       d varchar(8000) NOT NULL,
>       e varchar(8000) NOT NULL)
>    go
>    INSERT bigstuff(a, b, c, d, e)
>       VALUES (replicate('a', 8000),
>       replicate('d', 8000),
>       replicate('c', 8000),
>       replicate('d', 8000),
>       replicate('e', 8000))
>    go
>    drop table bigstuff
> 
> This runs without an error on SQL 2005 and SQL 2008. On SQL 2000 it
> will fail, but even there it would be poor design. Just because a user
> may add a varchar(8000) does not mean that he will and if he does, it
> does not mean that he will always add 8000 bytes to it.
> 
> On SQL 2000 you would maybe need a scheme so that you can split 
> data over several tables, but on SQL 2005/2008, there is little reason.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se
> 
> Links for SQL Server Books Online:
> SQL 2008: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlserver/cc514207.aspx
> SQL 2005: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlserver/bb895970.aspx
> SQL 2000: http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/previousversions/books.mspx
> 
> .
> 
0
Utf
6/16/2010 4:26:39 PM
Juwe17 (Juwe17@discussions.microsoft.com) writes:
> I have simplified the problem for communicate in this forum. There are
> other reasons for the decision "one data table - one attribute". 

I'm tempted to say that whatever the reason, it is a bad decision.
It's never going to work out.

> Thank you for the hint about the data type varchar in SQL 2005/2008. I
> think it's similar to datatype "TEXT", which only needs 16Byte per row
> to handle it? 

No. A varchar(8000) with all 8000 bytes used, takes up 8002 bytes
within the row. The change in SQL 2005/2008 is that a row can span
multiple pages.

As for the data type "text", please be aware of that this data type
has been deprecated, and there is all reason not to use it. SQL 2005
introduced a new data type: varchar(MAX) (and nvarchar(MAX) and 
varbinary(MAX)), which just like text can store up to 2GB of data.
But you can work with these types just like the other data types, and
you don't have all those restrictions that come with text & co, nor
is there any need to use text pointers and all that.




-- 
Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

Links for SQL Server Books Online:
SQL 2008: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlserver/cc514207.aspx
SQL 2005: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlserver/bb895970.aspx
SQL 2000: http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/previousversions/books.mspx

0
Erland
6/16/2010 9:32:56 PM
OK, but I can also use a table with up to 444 varchar (max) columns, each 
filled with 500 characters. If I use the following tables option:
execute sp_tableoption 'my_text_table', 'large value types out of row', 'ON'

>"Erland Sommarskog" wrote:
>The change in SQL 2005/2008 is that a row can span
> multiple pages.

But it is now, perhaps back to the Middle Ages, if I need to know that 
multiple pages are used. I am an application developer. Should I know which 
Bit is set here and there?


0
Utf
6/24/2010 5:15:23 PM
Juwe17 (Juwe17@discussions.microsoft.com) writes:
> But it is now, perhaps back to the Middle Ages, if I need to know that 
> multiple pages are used. I am an application developer. Should I know
> which Bit is set here and there? 
 
If you want to design a database, you will need to learn to do it.
If you make your database design, as you design your C# or C++ programs
you are in for a disaster.


-- 
Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarskog.se

Links for SQL Server Books Online:
SQL 2008: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlserver/cc514207.aspx
SQL 2005: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlserver/bb895970.aspx
SQL 2000: http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/previousversions/books.mspx

0
Erland
6/24/2010 8:54:01 PM
Reply:

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In Microsoft article 183446 under method 2, it refers to using "Set Database" on the Data menu. I am using Excel 2002 (the article says it applies to Excel 2002), but Set Database does not appear in my Data menu. Is this an error? It's an error due, I think, to very old menu structures. The article says that the information applies to everything from version 5.0 (1995) through 2003, inclusive. But I believe that the Set Database menu item disappeared from the Data menu as of Excel 97. And one has long defined a name using the Insert menu, not the Formula menu. But my rapidl...

Daily Importing of External Data using Web Query
Every month I create a spreadsheet from a template by creating one ta for each day of the month named after day of the month/year (010104). then maually enter a Web Query on each tab which downloads dail weather information for an insect life cycle model. This is a very time consuming and tedious task because the onl difference in the links is the expression "20040101" (for January 01 2004) to "20040102" (for January 02,2004) INCLUDED IN THE LINK. Is it possible to use a macro (VBA code) to enter the Web Query addres in cell A1 on each tab when the workbook is created an...

Outlook 2007 Can't Close
My Domain Users cannot close Outlook 2007 with their domain profile. But they can open/close other Office 2007 application. Anyone know a fix to this? Norman what happens when they try? -- Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook] Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours Need Help with Common Tasks? http://www.outlook-tips.net/beginner/ Outlook 2007: http://www.slipstick.com/outlook/ol2007/ Outlook Tips by email: dailytips-subscribe-request@lists.outlooktips.net Outlook Tips: http://www.outlook-tips.net/ Outlook & Exchange Solutions Center: http://www.slipstick.com Subscribe to Exchang...

Great Plains Invoice History view?
Has anyone built a view in MSCRM that will show Great Plains Invoice history? I would be willing to purchase one. Jake ...

can't uninstall Office-and some other programs
Hi there, I can't uninstall Office Home & Student 2007:( I get this setup error saying "The language if this installation package is not supported by your system" and some other program uninstalls are getting this error that says windows installer could not be accessed. "This can occur if you are running windows in safe mode, or if the windows installer is not correctly installed". And Im not in safe mode...please help I lost my XP cd and cant use th ereair install. How else can I remedy this situation? Thank you in advance for your help. Gre...

upgraded from MSSQL 2000 to MSSQL 2005 now database's users have
Hello. I updated the MSSQL 2000 server to MSSQL 2005 server now the database's users have no login names. I found a way to list orphaned users sp_change_users_login 'Report' but it only listed dbo and there are actually five listed with MSSQL Server Management Studio Express. I tried this sp_change_users_login 'update_one', 'RPS', 'RPS' but I get the following error the user name 'RPS' is absent or invalid. Any ideas? Try with Auto_Fix instead; see the example at the end of the following article: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/...