Is it possible to bounce unsolicited mail

Is it possible to download headers and then bounce unsolicited mail

Regards
TIA 


0
Jimbo
1/20/2005 9:59:55 PM
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Jimbo <sa3214 schrieb am 20.01.2005 22:59:

> Is it possible to download headers and then bounce unsolicited mail

Only possible with OL 2002/2003. If you are using an earlier version you
can use a tool like [1] or [2]

[1] http://www.scheernet.de/postda/index.html
[2] http://www.d-jan.de/mailcheck.html

-- 
Viele Gr��e
Christian G�ller
0
cgoeller (26)
1/21/2005 12:07:44 AM
"Jimbo @Eclipse.co.uk>" <sa3214<No Spam> wrote in message 
news:ubFFjtz$EHA.1400@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Is it possible to download headers and then bounce unsolicited mail


Yes, even by using 3rd party products.  Should YOU do the bouncing?  No. 
Why?  Because you won't be bouncing the message back to the spammer, 
anyway.  You already know they don't use valid e-mail addresses (i.e., 
they never use their own real e-mail address).  So your bounces waste 
more bandwidth sending to mail servers that have to waste their 
resources to reject your fake bounce because no such account exists.  Or 
the spammer uses a valid e-mail address but it is for some innocents, so 
you end up slamming some innocent with a bunch of "bounce spam" and YOU 
become part of the problem.  You really think all those trojanized PCs 
running mailer daemons are really listening for incoming e-mails, like 
your bogus NDRs?  They spew, they don't listen.

In fact, users of challenge-response e-mail clients and those operating 
server-like e-mail clients that issue NDRs can be forced to become 
abusers themselves by abusing innocents with "challenge spam" and 
"bounce spam" to the point that the abused will get accounts closed for 
the senders of this crap.  The spammer floods your mailbox with their 
crap, you send an equal number of challenges or NDRs to the innocent's 
e-mail address, you become the abuser by sending all this "challenge 
spam" or bogus NDRs at the innocent, and YOUR account gets closed for 
being abusive.  Now imagine the spammer would like to close your account 
even quicker, so the e-mail address they use is of your ISP's 
abuse@domain.tld e-mail address or for some support e-mail address.  You 
don't think some "corrective action" will be taken against your abuse in 
sending out all this mis-addressed challenge and NDR crap?  What, you've 
never read posts here or in the [anti-]spam groups where someone wants 
to know why they are getting thousands of NDRs for e-mails that they 
never sent?  If I found someone slamming me with tons of NDRs and 
consuming my mailbox quota who could be identified (and YOU will be) 
then I would definitely report you as an abusive sender to your e-mail 
provider to get your account closed.  You slamming me with your 
ineffective solution and misdirected agression will not be tolerated. 
Because the action of sending an NDR emulates that of a mail server, 
you'll find your ISP won't care what program is issuing the NDRs and 
will terminate your account based on their terms of service, especially 
if it says you are not allowed to run any servers.

You aren't hurting the spammer when you issue a bogus NDR for spam that 
you received.  Your NDRs might go to a valid domain but the username is 
undefined but you waste that receiving mail server's resources to accept 
your e-mail, find there is no such username, and then maybe issue back 
its own NDR.  Or your NDRs go to a completely bogus domain so your own 
mail server couldn't connect to send your NDR, anyway.  Or your NDRs 
slam innocents with your proliferation and continuation of the spam. 
Your action is not responsible.  Vigilantes are recognized as whining 
thugs, not heroes.  Clean up the turds in your own yard and stop hurling 
them over the fence at anyone walking by your yard or into your 
neighbor's yard.

You obviously aren't really interested in reducing spam if your 
"solution" is to spew out bogus NDRs and challenges all over the 
Internet whether it reaches the spammer or not, or waste resources for 
undeliverable bounces, or it slams innocents with your crap (which is 
unsolicited spam to them since they never originated the message).  You 
think your crap delivered to the wrong recipient is to be tolerated 
anymore than the spam itself?  Vigilantes don't care if they kill the 
wrong person.  Extremists don't care about collateral damage.

0
1/21/2005 1:38:31 AM
As a victim of such bounces, I very much agree. I get hundreds to thousands 
of bounces NDR / challenges a day for emails I never sent.
-- 

Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of 
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://www.mvps.org/word which is awesome!
 --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.

"Vanguard" <vanguard_stealth@yahooNIXTHIS.com> wrote in message 
news:eJEMrn1$EHA.2676@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> "Jimbo @Eclipse.co.uk>" <sa3214<No Spam> wrote in message 
> news:ubFFjtz$EHA.1400@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>> Is it possible to download headers and then bounce unsolicited mail
>
>
> Yes, even by using 3rd party products.  Should YOU do the bouncing?  No. 
> Why?  Because you won't be bouncing the message back to the spammer, 
> anyway.  You already know they don't use valid e-mail addresses (i.e., 
> they never use their own real e-mail address).  So your bounces waste more 
> bandwidth sending to mail servers that have to waste their resources to 
> reject your fake bounce because no such account exists.  Or the spammer 
> uses a valid e-mail address but it is for some innocents, so you end up 
> slamming some innocent with a bunch of "bounce spam" and YOU become part 
> of the problem.  You really think all those trojanized PCs running mailer 
> daemons are really listening for incoming e-mails, like your bogus NDRs? 
> They spew, they don't listen.
>
> In fact, users of challenge-response e-mail clients and those operating 
> server-like e-mail clients that issue NDRs can be forced to become abusers 
> themselves by abusing innocents with "challenge spam" and "bounce spam" to 
> the point that the abused will get accounts closed for the senders of this 
> crap.  The spammer floods your mailbox with their crap, you send an equal 
> number of challenges or NDRs to the innocent's e-mail address, you become 
> the abuser by sending all this "challenge spam" or bogus NDRs at the 
> innocent, and YOUR account gets closed for being abusive.  Now imagine the 
> spammer would like to close your account even quicker, so the e-mail 
> address they use is of your ISP's abuse@domain.tld e-mail address or for 
> some support e-mail address.  You don't think some "corrective action" 
> will be taken against your abuse in sending out all this mis-addressed 
> challenge and NDR crap?  What, you've never read posts here or in the 
> [anti-]spam groups where someone wants to know why they are getting 
> thousands of NDRs for e-mails that they never sent?  If I found someone 
> slamming me with tons of NDRs and consuming my mailbox quota who could be 
> identified (and YOU will be) then I would definitely report you as an 
> abusive sender to your e-mail provider to get your account closed.  You 
> slamming me with your ineffective solution and misdirected agression will 
> not be tolerated. Because the action of sending an NDR emulates that of a 
> mail server, you'll find your ISP won't care what program is issuing the 
> NDRs and will terminate your account based on their terms of service, 
> especially if it says you are not allowed to run any servers.
>
> You aren't hurting the spammer when you issue a bogus NDR for spam that 
> you received.  Your NDRs might go to a valid domain but the username is 
> undefined but you waste that receiving mail server's resources to accept 
> your e-mail, find there is no such username, and then maybe issue back its 
> own NDR.  Or your NDRs go to a completely bogus domain so your own mail 
> server couldn't connect to send your NDR, anyway.  Or your NDRs slam 
> innocents with your proliferation and continuation of the spam. Your 
> action is not responsible.  Vigilantes are recognized as whining thugs, 
> not heroes.  Clean up the turds in your own yard and stop hurling them 
> over the fence at anyone walking by your yard or into your neighbor's 
> yard.
>
> You obviously aren't really interested in reducing spam if your "solution" 
> is to spew out bogus NDRs and challenges all over the Internet whether it 
> reaches the spammer or not, or waste resources for undeliverable bounces, 
> or it slams innocents with your crap (which is unsolicited spam to them 
> since they never originated the message).  You think your crap delivered 
> to the wrong recipient is to be tolerated anymore than the spam itself? 
> Vigilantes don't care if they kill the wrong person.  Extremists don't 
> care about collateral damage.
> 


0
1/21/2005 1:57:24 AM
I read the rather "strong" response that you got from a reader.  In addition 
to the "do not bounce" response, keep in mind that anything you send out of 
your computer also populates your autocomplete cache file known as an NK2 
file.  I found that out the hard way!!

Randy
"Christian G�ller" <cgoeller@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:35aveeF4ki0a2U1@individual.net...
> Jimbo <sa3214 schrieb am 20.01.2005 22:59:
>
>> Is it possible to download headers and then bounce unsolicited mail
>
> Only possible with OL 2002/2003. If you are using an earlier version you
> can use a tool like [1] or [2]
>
> [1] http://www.scheernet.de/postda/index.html
> [2] http://www.d-jan.de/mailcheck.html
>
> -- 
> Viele Gr��e
> Christian G�ller 


0
1/21/2005 1:17:57 PM
> Is it possible to download headers and then bounce unsolicited mail

In general, it is a bad idea to bounce unsolicited mail.  Bouncing does one 
of two things: generate an NDR because the SPAMmer used a fake address (most 
likely) or confirm to the SPAMmer that your address is valid so more SPAM 
can be sent or your address sold.
-- 
Brian Tillman 

0
tillman1952 (16053)
1/21/2005 2:49:07 PM
Reply:

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