401k cash payments Vs. Deposits

If anyone can help.

I have a 401k that I'm tracking. When I look at the total value, it is much 
less then it should be. The cash that I put into the account is being 
downloaded and put in as a payment not as a deposit which makes my cash input 
look like a negative. You would think it would add up to the whole total of 
the account, not as a seperate item and in a negative amount. Can anyone tell 
why it does this and how maybe to fix it.

Thanks
0
7/14/2007 9:58:02 PM
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I'm not sure you provide enough information to tell what's happening. In 
particular, it's not clear to me what you mean when you write "The cash that 
I put into the account is being downloaded and put in as a payment not as a 
deposit".

The normal best practice, ignoring downloaded data--which can have 
deleterious effects for all too many reasons:

1) setup a Money 401(k) Account that has both an Investment Account portion 
and a Cash Account portion.

2) account for the money flowing into the account with, typically, transfers 
from Paycheck transactions entered in your checking account to the 401(k) 
Investment Cash Account which account for all of the contribution and/or 
employer match/contribution flowing into the 401(k). These transfers 
increase the cash balance of the 401(k) Investment Cash Account.

3) "Buy Investment/CD" transactions entered in the 401(k) Investment Cash 
Account that buy Investments, held in the 401(k) Investment Account,  in 
whatever vehicles you hold in the plan. These transactions match the 
behavior of the plan. Further, they increase the value of the 401(k) 
Investment Account portion and reduce the cash balance of the 401(k) 
Investment Cash Account. The combined value+cash balance of the 401(k) 
Investment Account and the 401(k) Investment Cash Account represents the 
total amount in the real world 401k account.

If you can explain what you are doing/seeing in terms like these, perhaps we 
can help more.

"D Alexander" <DAlexander@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:3791800F-5C0F-4B60-85D9-3D81732DD9CF@microsoft.com...
> I have a 401k that I'm tracking. When I look at the total value, it is 
> much
> less then it should be. The cash that I put into the account is being
> downloaded and put in as a payment not as a deposit which makes my cash 
> input
> look like a negative. You would think it would add up to the whole total 
> of
> the account, not as a seperate item and in a negative amount. Can anyone 
> tell
> why it does this and how maybe to fix it. 


0
7/15/2007 3:22:06 AM
I'm sorry for the criptic explenation of what I'm trying convey here.
Everything you said sounds just as what MS Money is doing. I guess I just 
don't like the way it reports my money in the register. When I look at the 
total balance of my 401k I have to actually go to a report to see if its 
totaling up correctly. I don't like it and from what you have explained 
there's no way around it.

There are the investment transactions.
The cash transactions.
And the account summary.

One would think the first 2 would add up in the summary. I have to go to a 
calculator or a report to see the total of my account. I don't have much use 
for reports. I won't to see in the register.

But thank you so much for your help.  I'll just have to live with it.

"Dick Watson" wrote:

> I'm not sure you provide enough information to tell what's happening. In 
> particular, it's not clear to me what you mean when you write "The cash that 
> I put into the account is being downloaded and put in as a payment not as a 
> deposit".
> 
> The normal best practice, ignoring downloaded data--which can have 
> deleterious effects for all too many reasons:
> 
> 1) setup a Money 401(k) Account that has both an Investment Account portion 
> and a Cash Account portion.
> 
> 2) account for the money flowing into the account with, typically, transfers 
> from Paycheck transactions entered in your checking account to the 401(k) 
> Investment Cash Account which account for all of the contribution and/or 
> employer match/contribution flowing into the 401(k). These transfers 
> increase the cash balance of the 401(k) Investment Cash Account.
> 
> 3) "Buy Investment/CD" transactions entered in the 401(k) Investment Cash 
> Account that buy Investments, held in the 401(k) Investment Account,  in 
> whatever vehicles you hold in the plan. These transactions match the 
> behavior of the plan. Further, they increase the value of the 401(k) 
> Investment Account portion and reduce the cash balance of the 401(k) 
> Investment Cash Account. The combined value+cash balance of the 401(k) 
> Investment Account and the 401(k) Investment Cash Account represents the 
> total amount in the real world 401k account.
> 
> If you can explain what you are doing/seeing in terms like these, perhaps we 
> can help more.
> 
> "D Alexander" <DAlexander@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
> news:3791800F-5C0F-4B60-85D9-3D81732DD9CF@microsoft.com...
> > I have a 401k that I'm tracking. When I look at the total value, it is 
> > much
> > less then it should be. The cash that I put into the account is being
> > downloaded and put in as a payment not as a deposit which makes my cash 
> > input
> > look like a negative. You would think it would add up to the whole total 
> > of
> > the account, not as a seperate item and in a negative amount. Can anyone 
> > tell
> > why it does this and how maybe to fix it. 
> 
> 
> 
0
7/15/2007 4:18:04 AM
"D Alexander" <DAlexander@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:843BFCE0-8CA2-4462-9B8B-87C93436BEA9@microsoft.com...
> [snip]
> There are the investment transactions.
> The cash transactions.
> And the account summary.
>
> One would think the first 2 would add up in the summary ...

The cash listed in the summary and the cash account should only be 
what's left uninvested, after deposits, purchases, sales, and 
dividends. If you're not listing the cash account as the source of the 
purchases, and as the destination for deposits, sales, and dividends, 
that won't be the case.
-- 
Chris Cowles
Gainesville, FL 


0
spam_magnet (1210)
7/15/2007 6:40:15 PM
As Chris notes, the two **should** add up in the Account Summary to match, 
say, account total values you see on statements. Most 401(k) plans, when 
reflected properly in Money, have relatively low cash balances. (This is 
because most responsible plans don't sit on the contribution money for long 
before getting it invested.) If you aren't seeing believable values in the 
total on Account Summary, there's still investigation to be done.

One way, for instance, that the account Summary value can be dorked up if 
the value of the investments isn't good. There are LOTS of ways that can 
happen (bear markets for one) but one to be concerned about is this: say 
your plan has a "XYZ Corp Plan Vanguard Windsor Fund". Say you associated 
the Money Investment you defined for this with the Vanguard Windsor symbol 
VWNDX. Money downloads the per share value of VWNDX and applies it to your 
shares to get to the investment value. But in this case, the fund you are 
investing in isn't VWNDX. It's "XYZ Corp Plan Vanguard Windsor Fund" for 
which there is no symbol/quote that will work that Money can get. If the per 
unit value of the "XYZ Corp Plan Vanguard Windsor Fund" is, say 5x the real 
NAV quoted for VWNDX but you've downloaded your share balance that's roughly 
1/5 of what it would be were it in "real" VWNDX, Money will reduce the value 
of your investment by a factor of 5. This is just one of many possible 
examples of a bad reason for your Account Summary total to not be sane.

"D Alexander" <DAlexander@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:843BFCE0-8CA2-4462-9B8B-87C93436BEA9@microsoft.com...
> There are the investment transactions.
> The cash transactions.
> And the account summary.
>
> One would think the first 2 would add up in the summary. I have to go to a
> calculator or a report to see the total of my account. I don't have much 
> use
> for reports. I won't to see in the register. 


0
7/15/2007 10:30:20 PM
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