Hi all I have a good one here for you.

I have reformatted a computer twice tonight and have had the exact same 
issue twice. I at least have it narrowed down to some windows updates.

System:
XP Home SP3
IE6 Direct upgrade to IE8.
No antivirus installed as of yet because tried to replicate issue and 
eliminate it as an issue.

Here is what happens.

Do a fresh clean install from recovery cd's which gives me SP2. Then upgrade 
to SP3.

Go and get all high priority updates for the computer. Flash Player Security 
Update fails.

Go back to Windows updates and get notice that components are not 
registered. No big deal just reboot scan again and all is well.

Now that all XP updates are installed I decide to put in IE8. I did this 
eariler the first time which is why I did not know it was the issue.

Anyway after installing IE8 all is still well at this point.

After installing IE8 I get 3 new high priority updates. Download and install 
the updates and the machine becomes toast. I do not yet have automatic 
updates turned on so each reboot I got the notice that I need to adjust the 
settings. This notice no longer comes up after the security updates for IE8 
were installed. The machine also no longer reboots and freezes up. Can not 
even shut the machine down normally. I have to hold the power  button to 
turn it off.

I sure wish I could tell you the three updates that were involved so maybe 
you could narrow it down but I just am not sure because I can nolonger get 
to add remove programs or event viewer to tell you what is happening or what 
the last updates were. IE will not open so I can not look on the windows 
update site either.

Looks like I may have to rebuild this machine and stick with IE7.

I have never had an issue like this in my life where a clean install of 
windows acts like this. Not once but twice and antivirus of any kind has not 
been installed.

Go figure. I have wasted hours and accomplished nothing.

Hi all I have some more details.

I managed to get into safe mode. Here is what I found.

The last system restore point was a Distributed Software Restore Point at 
3:34am.

When I look in C:Windows\IE8Updates directory I found three updates created 
at 3:35am, which means those have to be the last three downloaded and one 
most likely is the problem child.

The updates are called:
KB971961
KB976662
KB981332

Unfortunately none of these are listed in add remove programs. My only 
option here would be to do a system restore and try one at a time all over 
again if the issue is fixed with the system restore point.

I would rather know the exact issue and fix it if possible.

One last note, I did also get into Event viewer is safemode and found these 
two entries after the updates were installed:

Event 7022 The Distributed Link Tracking Client service hung on starting.
&
Event 7022 The Automatic Updates service hung on starting.

Maybe I have now provided enough for someone to know what is going on.

Just one last point of interest. This should not have any impact on the 
issue because the machine works fine until the final updates are installed 
but, for some reason when you use the recovery cd's for this machine you end 
up getting formatted into the FAT32 format. Before did even the first thing 
I used microsoft built in convert tool from command prompt as per the 
instructions and converted to NTFS.

Thanks for any help you can provide. If this is not solved I may just try to 
keep this machine going and not use IE8 just stick with IE7.
"V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
news:%23NWoBOvALHA.1700@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Hi all I have a good one here for you.
>
> I have reformatted a computer twice tonight and have had the exact same 
> issue twice. I at least have it narrowed down to some windows updates.
>
> System:
> XP Home SP3
> IE6 Direct upgrade to IE8.
> No antivirus installed as of yet because tried to replicate issue and 
> eliminate it as an issue.
>
> Here is what happens.
>
> Do a fresh clean install from recovery cd's which gives me SP2. Then 
> upgrade to SP3.
>
> Go and get all high priority updates for the computer. Flash Player 
> Security Update fails.
>
> Go back to Windows updates and get notice that components are not 
> registered. No big deal just reboot scan again and all is well.
>
> Now that all XP updates are installed I decide to put in IE8. I did this 
> eariler the first time which is why I did not know it was the issue.
>
> Anyway after installing IE8 all is still well at this point.
>
> After installing IE8 I get 3 new high priority updates. Download and 
> install the updates and the machine becomes toast. I do not yet have 
> automatic updates turned on so each reboot I got the notice that I need to 
> adjust the settings. This notice no longer comes up after the security 
> updates for IE8 were installed. The machine also no longer reboots and 
> freezes up. Can not even shut the machine down normally. I have to hold 
> the power  button to turn it off.
>
> I sure wish I could tell you the three updates that were involved so maybe 
> you could narrow it down but I just am not sure because I can nolonger get 
> to add remove programs or event viewer to tell you what is happening or 
> what the last updates were. IE will not open so I can not look on the 
> windows update site either.
>
> Looks like I may have to rebuild this machine and stick with IE7.
>
> I have never had an issue like this in my life where a clean install of 
> windows acts like this. Not once but twice and antivirus of any kind has 
> not been installed.
>
> Go figure. I have wasted hours and accomplished nothing.
>
>
> 

Yep, that's a good one. Thanks for sharing.

"V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
news:%23NWoBOvALHA.1700@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
: Hi all I have a good one here for you.
:
: I have reformatted a computer twice tonight and have had the exact same
: issue twice. I at least have it narrowed down to some windows updates.
:
: System:
: XP Home SP3
: IE6 Direct upgrade to IE8.
: No antivirus installed as of yet because tried to replicate issue and
: eliminate it as an issue.
:
: Here is what happens.
:
: Do a fresh clean install from recovery cd's which gives me SP2. Then 
upgrade
: to SP3.
:
: Go and get all high priority updates for the computer. Flash Player 
Security
: Update fails.
:
: Go back to Windows updates and get notice that components are not
: registered. No big deal just reboot scan again and all is well.
:
: Now that all XP updates are installed I decide to put in IE8. I did this
: eariler the first time which is why I did not know it was the issue.
:
: Anyway after installing IE8 all is still well at this point.
:
: After installing IE8 I get 3 new high priority updates. Download and 
install
: the updates and the machine becomes toast. I do not yet have automatic
: updates turned on so each reboot I got the notice that I need to adjust 
the
: settings. This notice no longer comes up after the security updates for 
IE8
: were installed. The machine also no longer reboots and freezes up. Can not
: even shut the machine down normally. I have to hold the power  button to
: turn it off.
:
: I sure wish I could tell you the three updates that were involved so maybe
: you could narrow it down but I just am not sure because I can nolonger get
: to add remove programs or event viewer to tell you what is happening or 
what
: the last updates were. IE will not open so I can not look on the windows
: update site either.
:
: Looks like I may have to rebuild this machine and stick with IE7.
:
: I have never had an issue like this in my life where a clean install of
: windows acts like this. Not once but twice and antivirus of any kind has 
not
: been installed.
:
: Go figure. I have wasted hours and accomplished nothing.
:
:
: 

[X-post to IE General]

> No antivirus installed as of yet...

There's a big ol' cluestick, my friend!

> Unfortunately none of these are listed in add remove programs.

Assuming the "Show Updates" box at the top of A/RP is checked, that's an 
even bigger cluestick.  See...

     Cleaning a Compromised System
     http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc700813.aspx

Back-up any personal data (none of which should be considered 100% 
trustworthy at this point) then format the HDD & do another clean install of 
Windows.  Please note that a Repair Install (AKA in-place upgrade) will NOT 
fix this!

HOW TO do a clean install of WinXP: See 
http://michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html#steps and/or Method 1 in 
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/978307

After the clean install, you will have the equivalent of a "new computer" so 
take care of everything on the following page before otherwise connecting 
the machine to the internet or a local network (i.e., other computers) and 
before using a flash drive or SDCard that isn't brand-new or hasn't been 
freshly formatted:

     4 steps to help protect your new computer before you go online
     http://www.microsoft.com/security/pypc.aspx

Other helpful references include:

HOW TO get a computer running WinXP Gold (no Service Packs) fully patched 
(after a clean install)
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsupdate/msg/3f5afa8ed33e121c

HOW TO get a computer running WinXP SP1(a) or SP2 fully patched (after a 
clean install)
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg/a066ae41add7dd2b

Tip: Run with IE6 installed for a few days to make certain everything's OK. 
When you're ready to try another install of IE8, reply to this thread & I'll 
give you some tips.

Tip: After getting the computer fully-patched, download/install KB971029 
manually: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/971029

NB: Any Norton or McAfee free-trial that came preinstalled on the computer 
when you bought it will be reinstalled (but invalid) when Windows is 
reinstalled. You MUST uninstall the free-trial AND download/run the 
appropriate removal tool BEFORE installing any updates, Windows Service 
Packs or IE upgrades AND BEFORE installing your new anti-virus application 
(which will require WinXP SP3 to be installed).

     Norton Removal Tool
     ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/removal_tools/Norton_Removal_Tool.exe

     McAfee Consumer Products Removal Tool
     http://download.mcafee.com/products/licensed/cust_support_patches/MCPR.exe

-- 
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002


V wrote:
> Hi all I have some more details.
>
> I managed to get into safe mode. Here is what I found.
>
> The last system restore point was a Distributed Software Restore Point at
> 3:34am.
>
> When I look in C:Windows\IE8Updates directory I found three updates 
> created
> at 3:35am, which means those have to be the last three downloaded and one
> most likely is the problem child.
>
> The updates are called:
> KB971961
> KB976662
> KB981332
>
> Unfortunately none of these are listed in add remove programs. My only
> option here would be to do a system restore and try one at a time all over
> again if the issue is fixed with the system restore point.
>
> I would rather know the exact issue and fix it if possible.
>
> One last note, I did also get into Event viewer is safemode and found 
> these
> two entries after the updates were installed:
>
> Event 7022 The Distributed Link Tracking Client service hung on starting.
> &
> Event 7022 The Automatic Updates service hung on starting.
>
> Maybe I have now provided enough for someone to know what is going on.
>
> Just one last point of interest. This should not have any impact on the
> issue because the machine works fine until the final updates are installed
> but, for some reason when you use the recovery cd's for this machine you 
> end
> up getting formatted into the FAT32 format. Before did even the first 
> thing
> I used microsoft built in convert tool from command prompt as per the
> instructions and converted to NTFS.
>
> Thanks for any help you can provide. If this is not solved I may just try 
> to
> keep this machine going and not use IE8 just stick with IE7.
>
>> I have reformatted a computer twice tonight and have had the exact same
>> issue twice. I at least have it narrowed down to some windows updates.
>>
>> System:
>> XP Home SP3
>> IE6 Direct upgrade to IE8.
>> No antivirus installed as of yet because tried to replicate issue and
>> eliminate it as an issue.
>>
>> Here is what happens.
>>
>> Do a fresh clean install from recovery cd's which gives me SP2. Then
>> upgrade to SP3.
>>
>> Go and get all high priority updates for the computer. Flash Player
>> Security Update fails.
>>
>> Go back to Windows updates and get notice that components are not
>> registered. No big deal just reboot scan again and all is well.
>>
>> Now that all XP updates are installed I decide to put in IE8. I did this
>> eariler the first time which is why I did not know it was the issue.
>>
>> Anyway after installing IE8 all is still well at this point.
>>
>> After installing IE8 I get 3 new high priority updates. Download and
>> install the updates and the machine becomes toast. I do not yet have
>> automatic updates turned on so each reboot I got the notice that I need 
>> to
>> adjust the settings. This notice no longer comes up after the security
>> updates for IE8 were installed. The machine also no longer reboots and
>> freezes up. Can not even shut the machine down normally. I have to hold
>> the power  button to turn it off.
>>
>> I sure wish I could tell you the three updates that were involved so 
>> maybe
>> you could narrow it down but I just am not sure because I can nolonger 
>> get
>> to add remove programs or event viewer to tell you what is happening or
>> what the last updates were. IE will not open so I can not look on the
>> windows update site either.
>>
>> Looks like I may have to rebuild this machine and stick with IE7.
>>
>> I have never had an issue like this in my life where a clean install of
>> windows acts like this. Not once but twice and antivirus of any kind has
>> not been installed.
>>
>> Go figure. I have wasted hours and accomplished nothing. 

PA

Antivirus was left off on second format just for a test. The machine was 
only 3 hours rebuilt and never went anywhere except for Windows update. The 
reason for leaving off the antivirus was to do a test to see if it somehow 
was the issue.

I ended up with the same exact issue on both clean formats on the same 
night. leaving the antivirus off helped me eliminate the possibility that 
some how the antivirus was corrupting the install of windows updates. Don't 
fault me for that it was just a way to eliminate one possible problem.

As for the updates not showing in Add Remove programs it is not all updates 
because yes I do have the updates showing, it is just these that do not show 
up.

I have been  building and fixing computers for many years and this is the 
first machine that I have ever had that failed twice on a clean format in 
the same day with no apperant solution. I was willing to do anything to 
figure out the issue as my boss needs this to go on vacation this week and I 
don't want to have to get him a new machine unless it is just a must.
"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:u$h41wyALHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> [X-post to IE General]
>
>> No antivirus installed as of yet...
>
> There's a big ol' cluestick, my friend!
>
>> Unfortunately none of these are listed in add remove programs.
>
> Assuming the "Show Updates" box at the top of A/RP is checked, that's an 
> even bigger cluestick.  See...
>
>     Cleaning a Compromised System
>     http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc700813.aspx
>
> Back-up any personal data (none of which should be considered 100% 
> trustworthy at this point) then format the HDD & do another clean install 
> of Windows.  Please note that a Repair Install (AKA in-place upgrade) will 
> NOT fix this!
>
> HOW TO do a clean install of WinXP: See 
> http://michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html#steps and/or Method 1 in 
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/978307
>
> After the clean install, you will have the equivalent of a "new computer" 
> so take care of everything on the following page before otherwise 
> connecting the machine to the internet or a local network (i.e., other 
> computers) and before using a flash drive or SDCard that isn't brand-new 
> or hasn't been freshly formatted:
>
>     4 steps to help protect your new computer before you go online
>     http://www.microsoft.com/security/pypc.aspx
>
> Other helpful references include:
>
> HOW TO get a computer running WinXP Gold (no Service Packs) fully patched 
> (after a clean install)
> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsupdate/msg/3f5afa8ed33e121c
>
> HOW TO get a computer running WinXP SP1(a) or SP2 fully patched (after a 
> clean install)
> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg/a066ae41add7dd2b
>
> Tip: Run with IE6 installed for a few days to make certain everything's 
> OK. When you're ready to try another install of IE8, reply to this thread 
> & I'll give you some tips.
>
> Tip: After getting the computer fully-patched, download/install KB971029 
> manually: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/971029
>
> NB: Any Norton or McAfee free-trial that came preinstalled on the computer 
> when you bought it will be reinstalled (but invalid) when Windows is 
> reinstalled. You MUST uninstall the free-trial AND download/run the 
> appropriate removal tool BEFORE installing any updates, Windows Service 
> Packs or IE upgrades AND BEFORE installing your new anti-virus application 
> (which will require WinXP SP3 to be installed).
>
>     Norton Removal Tool
> 
> ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/removal_tools/Norton_Removal_Tool.exe
>
>     McAfee Consumer Products Removal Tool
> 
> http://download.mcafee.com/products/licensed/cust_support_patches/MCPR.exe
>
> -- 
> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002
>
>
> V wrote:
>> Hi all I have some more details.
>>
>> I managed to get into safe mode. Here is what I found.
>>
>> The last system restore point was a Distributed Software Restore Point at
>> 3:34am.
>>
>> When I look in C:Windows\IE8Updates directory I found three updates 
>> created
>> at 3:35am, which means those have to be the last three downloaded and one
>> most likely is the problem child.
>>
>> The updates are called:
>> KB971961
>> KB976662
>> KB981332
>>
>> Unfortunately none of these are listed in add remove programs. My only
>> option here would be to do a system restore and try one at a time all 
>> over
>> again if the issue is fixed with the system restore point.
>>
>> I would rather know the exact issue and fix it if possible.
>>
>> One last note, I did also get into Event viewer is safemode and found 
>> these
>> two entries after the updates were installed:
>>
>> Event 7022 The Distributed Link Tracking Client service hung on starting.
>> &
>> Event 7022 The Automatic Updates service hung on starting.
>>
>> Maybe I have now provided enough for someone to know what is going on.
>>
>> Just one last point of interest. This should not have any impact on the
>> issue because the machine works fine until the final updates are 
>> installed
>> but, for some reason when you use the recovery cd's for this machine you 
>> end
>> up getting formatted into the FAT32 format. Before did even the first 
>> thing
>> I used microsoft built in convert tool from command prompt as per the
>> instructions and converted to NTFS.
>>
>> Thanks for any help you can provide. If this is not solved I may just try 
>> to
>> keep this machine going and not use IE8 just stick with IE7.
>>
>>> I have reformatted a computer twice tonight and have had the exact same
>>> issue twice. I at least have it narrowed down to some windows updates.
>>>
>>> System:
>>> XP Home SP3
>>> IE6 Direct upgrade to IE8.
>>> No antivirus installed as of yet because tried to replicate issue and
>>> eliminate it as an issue.
>>>
>>> Here is what happens.
>>>
>>> Do a fresh clean install from recovery cd's which gives me SP2. Then
>>> upgrade to SP3.
>>>
>>> Go and get all high priority updates for the computer. Flash Player
>>> Security Update fails.
>>>
>>> Go back to Windows updates and get notice that components are not
>>> registered. No big deal just reboot scan again and all is well.
>>>
>>> Now that all XP updates are installed I decide to put in IE8. I did this
>>> eariler the first time which is why I did not know it was the issue.
>>>
>>> Anyway after installing IE8 all is still well at this point.
>>>
>>> After installing IE8 I get 3 new high priority updates. Download and
>>> install the updates and the machine becomes toast. I do not yet have
>>> automatic updates turned on so each reboot I got the notice that I need 
>>> to
>>> adjust the settings. This notice no longer comes up after the security
>>> updates for IE8 were installed. The machine also no longer reboots and
>>> freezes up. Can not even shut the machine down normally. I have to hold
>>> the power  button to turn it off.
>>>
>>> I sure wish I could tell you the three updates that were involved so 
>>> maybe
>>> you could narrow it down but I just am not sure because I can nolonger 
>>> get
>>> to add remove programs or event viewer to tell you what is happening or
>>> what the last updates were. IE will not open so I can not look on the
>>> windows update site either.
>>>
>>> Looks like I may have to rebuild this machine and stick with IE7.
>>>
>>> I have never had an issue like this in my life where a clean install of
>>> windows acts like this. Not once but twice and antivirus of any kind has
>>> not been installed.
>>>
>>> Go figure. I have wasted hours and accomplished nothing.
> 

Ok here are some more details.

After getting a good night sleep I went into safe mode and did a system 
restore. After the restore the three eariler mentioned updates are now 
showing as not installed. Low and behold the computer is working just fine. 
All issues have gone away.

I will now reinstall the updates one at a time in the order the updates were 
last published. Hopefully I can now narrow down the issue or maybe even 
better stop it from coming back. Never had an issue where the install order 
was the problem but who knows.

Will report back in a few minutes.


"V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
news:%23NWoBOvALHA.1700@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Hi all I have a good one here for you.
>
> I have reformatted a computer twice tonight and have had the exact same 
> issue twice. I at least have it narrowed down to some windows updates.
>
> System:
> XP Home SP3
> IE6 Direct upgrade to IE8.
> No antivirus installed as of yet because tried to replicate issue and 
> eliminate it as an issue.
>
> Here is what happens.
>
> Do a fresh clean install from recovery cd's which gives me SP2. Then 
> upgrade to SP3.
>
> Go and get all high priority updates for the computer. Flash Player 
> Security Update fails.
>
> Go back to Windows updates and get notice that components are not 
> registered. No big deal just reboot scan again and all is well.
>
> Now that all XP updates are installed I decide to put in IE8. I did this 
> eariler the first time which is why I did not know it was the issue.
>
> Anyway after installing IE8 all is still well at this point.
>
> After installing IE8 I get 3 new high priority updates. Download and 
> install the updates and the machine becomes toast. I do not yet have 
> automatic updates turned on so each reboot I got the notice that I need to 
> adjust the settings. This notice no longer comes up after the security 
> updates for IE8 were installed. The machine also no longer reboots and 
> freezes up. Can not even shut the machine down normally. I have to hold 
> the power  button to turn it off.
>
> I sure wish I could tell you the three updates that were involved so maybe 
> you could narrow it down but I just am not sure because I can nolonger get 
> to add remove programs or event viewer to tell you what is happening or 
> what the last updates were. IE will not open so I can not look on the 
> windows update site either.
>
> Looks like I may have to rebuild this machine and stick with IE7.
>
> I have never had an issue like this in my life where a clean install of 
> windows acts like this. Not once but twice and antivirus of any kind has 
> not been installed.
>
> Go figure. I have wasted hours and accomplished nothing.
>
>
> 

I have nothing further to add here.  Connecting the computer to the internet 
(or a local network) without a valid, fully-updated anti-virus application 
installed can result in an infection within seconds.

That being said, no-charge support for Internet Explorer 8 installation, 
set-up and usage (only) has been extended until 02 July 2010. Customers must 
be running Windows XP or Windows Vista in a non-domain environment.

   => US & CA Residents: 1-866-234-6020
   => Other locales: 
https://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?&prid=13043


V wrote:
> Antivirus was left off on second format just for a test. The machine was
> only 3 hours rebuilt and never went anywhere except for Windows update. 
> The
> reason for leaving off the antivirus was to do a test to see if it somehow
> was the issue.
>
> I ended up with the same exact issue on both clean formats on the same
> night. leaving the antivirus off helped me eliminate the possibility that
> some how the antivirus was corrupting the install of windows updates. 
> Don't
> fault me for that it was just a way to eliminate one possible problem.
>
> As for the updates not showing in Add Remove programs it is not all 
> updates
> because yes I do have the updates showing, it is just these that do not 
> show
> up.
>
> I have been  building and fixing computers for many years and this is the
> first machine that I have ever had that failed twice on a clean format in
> the same day with no apperant solution. I was willing to do anything to
> figure out the issue as my boss needs this to go on vacation this week and 
> I
> don't want to have to get him a new machine unless it is just a must.
> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:u$h41wyALHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> [X-post to IE General]
>>
>>> No antivirus installed as of yet...
>>
>> There's a big ol' cluestick, my friend!
>>
>>> Unfortunately none of these are listed in add remove programs.
>>
>> Assuming the "Show Updates" box at the top of A/RP is checked, that's an
>> even bigger cluestick.  See...
>>
>>     Cleaning a Compromised System
>>     http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc700813.aspx
>>
>> Back-up any personal data (none of which should be considered 100%
>> trustworthy at this point) then format the HDD & do another clean install
>> of Windows.  Please note that a Repair Install (AKA in-place upgrade) 
>> will
>> NOT fix this!
>>
>> HOW TO do a clean install of WinXP: See
>> http://michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html#steps and/or Method 1 
>> in
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/978307
>>
>> After the clean install, you will have the equivalent of a "new computer"
>> so take care of everything on the following page before otherwise
>> connecting the machine to the internet or a local network (i.e., other
>> computers) and before using a flash drive or SDCard that isn't brand-new
>> or hasn't been freshly formatted:
>>
>>     4 steps to help protect your new computer before you go online
>>     http://www.microsoft.com/security/pypc.aspx
>>
>> Other helpful references include:
>>
>> HOW TO get a computer running WinXP Gold (no Service Packs) fully patched
>> (after a clean install)
>> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsupdate/msg/3f5afa8ed33e121c
>>
>> HOW TO get a computer running WinXP SP1(a) or SP2 fully patched (after a
>> clean install)
>> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg/a066ae41add7dd2b
>>
>> Tip: Run with IE6 installed for a few days to make certain everything's
>> OK. When you're ready to try another install of IE8, reply to this thread
>> & I'll give you some tips.
>>
>> Tip: After getting the computer fully-patched, download/install KB971029
>> manually: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/971029
>>
>> NB: Any Norton or McAfee free-trial that came preinstalled on the 
>> computer
>> when you bought it will be reinstalled (but invalid) when Windows is
>> reinstalled. You MUST uninstall the free-trial AND download/run the
>> appropriate removal tool BEFORE installing any updates, Windows Service
>> Packs or IE upgrades AND BEFORE installing your new anti-virus 
>> application
>> (which will require WinXP SP3 to be installed).
>>
>>     Norton Removal Tool
>>
>> ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/removal_tools/Norton_Removal_Tool.exe
>>
>>     McAfee Consumer Products Removal Tool
>>
>> http://download.mcafee.com/products/licensed/cust_support_patches/MCPR.exe
>>
>> --
>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002
>>
>>
>> V wrote:
>>> Hi all I have some more details.
>>>
>>> I managed to get into safe mode. Here is what I found.
>>>
>>> The last system restore point was a Distributed Software Restore Point 
>>> at
>>> 3:34am.
>>>
>>> When I look in C:Windows\IE8Updates directory I found three updates
>>> created
>>> at 3:35am, which means those have to be the last three downloaded and 
>>> one
>>> most likely is the problem child.
>>>
>>> The updates are called:
>>> KB971961
>>> KB976662
>>> KB981332
>>>
>>> Unfortunately none of these are listed in add remove programs. My only
>>> option here would be to do a system restore and try one at a time all
>>> over
>>> again if the issue is fixed with the system restore point.
>>>
>>> I would rather know the exact issue and fix it if possible.
>>>
>>> One last note, I did also get into Event viewer is safemode and found
>>> these
>>> two entries after the updates were installed:
>>>
>>> Event 7022 The Distributed Link Tracking Client service hung on 
>>> starting.
>>> &
>>> Event 7022 The Automatic Updates service hung on starting.
>>>
>>> Maybe I have now provided enough for someone to know what is going on.
>>>
>>> Just one last point of interest. This should not have any impact on the
>>> issue because the machine works fine until the final updates are
>>> installed
>>> but, for some reason when you use the recovery cd's for this machine you
>>> end
>>> up getting formatted into the FAT32 format. Before did even the first
>>> thing
>>> I used microsoft built in convert tool from command prompt as per the
>>> instructions and converted to NTFS.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any help you can provide. If this is not solved I may just 
>>> try
>>> to
>>> keep this machine going and not use IE8 just stick with IE7.
>>>
>>>> I have reformatted a computer twice tonight and have had the exact same
>>>> issue twice. I at least have it narrowed down to some windows updates.
>>>>
>>>> System:
>>>> XP Home SP3
>>>> IE6 Direct upgrade to IE8.
>>>> No antivirus installed as of yet because tried to replicate issue and
>>>> eliminate it as an issue.
>>>>
>>>> Here is what happens.
>>>>
>>>> Do a fresh clean install from recovery cd's which gives me SP2. Then
>>>> upgrade to SP3.
>>>>
>>>> Go and get all high priority updates for the computer. Flash Player
>>>> Security Update fails.
>>>>
>>>> Go back to Windows updates and get notice that components are not
>>>> registered. No big deal just reboot scan again and all is well.
>>>>
>>>> Now that all XP updates are installed I decide to put in IE8. I did 
>>>> this
>>>> eariler the first time which is why I did not know it was the issue.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway after installing IE8 all is still well at this point.
>>>>
>>>> After installing IE8 I get 3 new high priority updates. Download and
>>>> install the updates and the machine becomes toast. I do not yet have
>>>> automatic updates turned on so each reboot I got the notice that I need
>>>> to
>>>> adjust the settings. This notice no longer comes up after the security
>>>> updates for IE8 were installed. The machine also no longer reboots and
>>>> freezes up. Can not even shut the machine down normally. I have to hold
>>>> the power  button to turn it off.
>>>>
>>>> I sure wish I could tell you the three updates that were involved so
>>>> maybe
>>>> you could narrow it down but I just am not sure because I can nolonger
>>>> get
>>>> to add remove programs or event viewer to tell you what is happening or
>>>> what the last updates were. IE will not open so I can not look on the
>>>> windows update site either.
>>>>
>>>> Looks like I may have to rebuild this machine and stick with IE7.
>>>>
>>>> I have never had an issue like this in my life where a clean install of
>>>> windows acts like this. Not once but twice and antivirus of any kind 
>>>> has
>>>> not been installed.
>>>>
>>>> Go figure. I have wasted hours and accomplished nothing. 

V wrote:
> Ok here are some more details.
>
> After getting a good night sleep I went into safe mode and did a system
> restore. After the restore the three eariler mentioned updates are now
> showing as not installed. Low and behold the computer is working just fine.
> All issues have gone away.
>
> I will now reinstall the updates one at a time in the order the updates were
> last published. Hopefully I can now narrow down the issue or maybe even
> better stop it from coming back. Never had an issue where the install order
> was the problem but who knows.
>
> Will report back in a few minutes.


Somebody is watching and waiting for your report, V. <w>

IIRC, updates for IE8 are listed under IE8 in Add/Remove Programs, not 
under XP Software Updates. Are all 3 showing in that location ?

Was IE8 installed via Automatic Updates or was the full standalone 
package manually downloaded ?
How may restarts were done after the installation of IE8 ?


FWIW, the updates that you posted previously are all script updates ... 
were they installed in the exact order that you posted them  ?

JScript for KB971961 and KB976662
VBScript for KB981332


MowGreen
================
  *-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
================

banthecheck.com
"Security updates should *never* have *non-security content* prechecked

Believe me No Antivirus is not something I normally do, I just did this to 
diagnose the issue.

I have successfully removed the updates by doing a system restore and the 
machine is once again working perfectly. This now tells me the Antivirus 
program was not causing an issue but rather Windows Updates are at fault.

I will be reinstalling the updates one at a time until I figure out which 
one is the problem.

After that I will do a complete rebuild again the proper way with Antivirus 
installed before doing the updates.

Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do to eliminate a possible 
problem with a computer even if it is not the convential way to do things.
"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:u4yTTS1ALHA.4400@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>I have nothing further to add here.  Connecting the computer to the 
>internet (or a local network) without a valid, fully-updated anti-virus 
>application installed can result in an infection within seconds.
>
> That being said, no-charge support for Internet Explorer 8 installation, 
> set-up and usage (only) has been extended until 02 July 2010. Customers 
> must be running Windows XP or Windows Vista in a non-domain environment.
>
>   => US & CA Residents: 1-866-234-6020
>   => Other locales: 
> https://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?&prid=13043
>
>
> V wrote:
>> Antivirus was left off on second format just for a test. The machine was
>> only 3 hours rebuilt and never went anywhere except for Windows update. 
>> The
>> reason for leaving off the antivirus was to do a test to see if it 
>> somehow
>> was the issue.
>>
>> I ended up with the same exact issue on both clean formats on the same
>> night. leaving the antivirus off helped me eliminate the possibility that
>> some how the antivirus was corrupting the install of windows updates. 
>> Don't
>> fault me for that it was just a way to eliminate one possible problem.
>>
>> As for the updates not showing in Add Remove programs it is not all 
>> updates
>> because yes I do have the updates showing, it is just these that do not 
>> show
>> up.
>>
>> I have been  building and fixing computers for many years and this is the
>> first machine that I have ever had that failed twice on a clean format in
>> the same day with no apperant solution. I was willing to do anything to
>> figure out the issue as my boss needs this to go on vacation this week 
>> and I
>> don't want to have to get him a new machine unless it is just a must.
>> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:u$h41wyALHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>> [X-post to IE General]
>>>
>>>> No antivirus installed as of yet...
>>>
>>> There's a big ol' cluestick, my friend!
>>>
>>>> Unfortunately none of these are listed in add remove programs.
>>>
>>> Assuming the "Show Updates" box at the top of A/RP is checked, that's an
>>> even bigger cluestick.  See...
>>>
>>>     Cleaning a Compromised System
>>>     http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc700813.aspx
>>>
>>> Back-up any personal data (none of which should be considered 100%
>>> trustworthy at this point) then format the HDD & do another clean 
>>> install
>>> of Windows.  Please note that a Repair Install (AKA in-place upgrade) 
>>> will
>>> NOT fix this!
>>>
>>> HOW TO do a clean install of WinXP: See
>>> http://michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html#steps and/or Method 1 
>>> in
>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/978307
>>>
>>> After the clean install, you will have the equivalent of a "new 
>>> computer"
>>> so take care of everything on the following page before otherwise
>>> connecting the machine to the internet or a local network (i.e., other
>>> computers) and before using a flash drive or SDCard that isn't brand-new
>>> or hasn't been freshly formatted:
>>>
>>>     4 steps to help protect your new computer before you go online
>>>     http://www.microsoft.com/security/pypc.aspx
>>>
>>> Other helpful references include:
>>>
>>> HOW TO get a computer running WinXP Gold (no Service Packs) fully 
>>> patched
>>> (after a clean install)
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsupdate/msg/3f5afa8ed33e121c
>>>
>>> HOW TO get a computer running WinXP SP1(a) or SP2 fully patched (after a
>>> clean install)
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg/a066ae41add7dd2b
>>>
>>> Tip: Run with IE6 installed for a few days to make certain everything's
>>> OK. When you're ready to try another install of IE8, reply to this 
>>> thread
>>> & I'll give you some tips.
>>>
>>> Tip: After getting the computer fully-patched, download/install KB971029
>>> manually: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/971029
>>>
>>> NB: Any Norton or McAfee free-trial that came preinstalled on the 
>>> computer
>>> when you bought it will be reinstalled (but invalid) when Windows is
>>> reinstalled. You MUST uninstall the free-trial AND download/run the
>>> appropriate removal tool BEFORE installing any updates, Windows Service
>>> Packs or IE upgrades AND BEFORE installing your new anti-virus 
>>> application
>>> (which will require WinXP SP3 to be installed).
>>>
>>>     Norton Removal Tool
>>>
>>> ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/removal_tools/Norton_Removal_Tool.exe
>>>
>>>     McAfee Consumer Products Removal Tool
>>>
>>> http://download.mcafee.com/products/licensed/cust_support_patches/MCPR.exe
>>>
>>> --
>>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
>>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002
>>>
>>>
>>> V wrote:
>>>> Hi all I have some more details.
>>>>
>>>> I managed to get into safe mode. Here is what I found.
>>>>
>>>> The last system restore point was a Distributed Software Restore Point 
>>>> at
>>>> 3:34am.
>>>>
>>>> When I look in C:Windows\IE8Updates directory I found three updates
>>>> created
>>>> at 3:35am, which means those have to be the last three downloaded and 
>>>> one
>>>> most likely is the problem child.
>>>>
>>>> The updates are called:
>>>> KB971961
>>>> KB976662
>>>> KB981332
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately none of these are listed in add remove programs. My only
>>>> option here would be to do a system restore and try one at a time all
>>>> over
>>>> again if the issue is fixed with the system restore point.
>>>>
>>>> I would rather know the exact issue and fix it if possible.
>>>>
>>>> One last note, I did also get into Event viewer is safemode and found
>>>> these
>>>> two entries after the updates were installed:
>>>>
>>>> Event 7022 The Distributed Link Tracking Client service hung on 
>>>> starting.
>>>> &
>>>> Event 7022 The Automatic Updates service hung on starting.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe I have now provided enough for someone to know what is going on.
>>>>
>>>> Just one last point of interest. This should not have any impact on the
>>>> issue because the machine works fine until the final updates are
>>>> installed
>>>> but, for some reason when you use the recovery cd's for this machine 
>>>> you
>>>> end
>>>> up getting formatted into the FAT32 format. Before did even the first
>>>> thing
>>>> I used microsoft built in convert tool from command prompt as per the
>>>> instructions and converted to NTFS.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any help you can provide. If this is not solved I may just 
>>>> try
>>>> to
>>>> keep this machine going and not use IE8 just stick with IE7.
>>>>
>>>>> I have reformatted a computer twice tonight and have had the exact 
>>>>> same
>>>>> issue twice. I at least have it narrowed down to some windows updates.
>>>>>
>>>>> System:
>>>>> XP Home SP3
>>>>> IE6 Direct upgrade to IE8.
>>>>> No antivirus installed as of yet because tried to replicate issue and
>>>>> eliminate it as an issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is what happens.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do a fresh clean install from recovery cd's which gives me SP2. Then
>>>>> upgrade to SP3.
>>>>>
>>>>> Go and get all high priority updates for the computer. Flash Player
>>>>> Security Update fails.
>>>>>
>>>>> Go back to Windows updates and get notice that components are not
>>>>> registered. No big deal just reboot scan again and all is well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now that all XP updates are installed I decide to put in IE8. I did 
>>>>> this
>>>>> eariler the first time which is why I did not know it was the issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway after installing IE8 all is still well at this point.
>>>>>
>>>>> After installing IE8 I get 3 new high priority updates. Download and
>>>>> install the updates and the machine becomes toast. I do not yet have
>>>>> automatic updates turned on so each reboot I got the notice that I 
>>>>> need
>>>>> to
>>>>> adjust the settings. This notice no longer comes up after the security
>>>>> updates for IE8 were installed. The machine also no longer reboots and
>>>>> freezes up. Can not even shut the machine down normally. I have to 
>>>>> hold
>>>>> the power  button to turn it off.
>>>>>
>>>>> I sure wish I could tell you the three updates that were involved so
>>>>> maybe
>>>>> you could narrow it down but I just am not sure because I can nolonger
>>>>> get
>>>>> to add remove programs or event viewer to tell you what is happening 
>>>>> or
>>>>> what the last updates were. IE will not open so I can not look on the
>>>>> windows update site either.
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks like I may have to rebuild this machine and stick with IE7.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have never had an issue like this in my life where a clean install 
>>>>> of
>>>>> windows acts like this. Not once but twice and antivirus of any kind 
>>>>> has
>>>>> not been installed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Go figure. I have wasted hours and accomplished nothing.
> 

See answers to your questions below.
I am now in the process of removing IE8 because removing the updates seemed 
to help but only on the first reboot. Then the issues started again on 
reboot #2.

Aside from my answers below I am going to use my computer to download all 
updated drivers from the Acer Support site and see if that helps.

I know PA did not approve of not having Antivirus installed and neither do I 
but on the second go around I was hoping to eliminate the possibility of the 
antivirus program somehow getting in the way. I was going for anything that 
could shed some light on the issue.

One last thing is that when this machine is rebuilt it offers me a Flash 
Update via windows updates. It always fails. After installing IE8 that 
update goes away.

My boss can get by without IE8 so I am considering rebuilding the machine 
again and going to IE7 skipping IE8 but probably not because I want to see 
if putting all the new drivers dated Dec 2008 from Acer helps first. Willing 
to try that before I give up on this thing.

One other thing I want to do is get my hands on an XP Home CD. I run Pro on 
everything else. If I can get this CD I will install it clean on a 
preformatted NTFS drive instead of having to convert the drive to NTFS from 
FAT32 which is what the Recovery CD Does to me.

This is the first time ever I have run into a computer I could not make 
work.


"MowGreen" <mowgreen@nowandzen.com> wrote in message 
news:ObPU$r1ALHA.1892@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>V wrote:
>> Ok here are some more details.
>>
>> After getting a good night sleep I went into safe mode and did a system
>> restore. After the restore the three eariler mentioned updates are now
>> showing as not installed. Low and behold the computer is working just 
>> fine.
>> All issues have gone away.
>>
>> I will now reinstall the updates one at a time in the order the updates 
>> were
>> last published. Hopefully I can now narrow down the issue or maybe even
>> better stop it from coming back. Never had an issue where the install 
>> order
>> was the problem but who knows.
>>
>> Will report back in a few minutes.
>
>
> Somebody is watching and waiting for your report, V. <w>
>
> IIRC, updates for IE8 are listed under IE8 in Add/Remove Programs, not 
> under XP Software Updates. Are all 3 showing in that location ?

I found this out just a few minutes ago. Being tired it just did not dawn on 
me to look there for somereson.


>
> Was IE8 installed via Automatic Updates or was the full standalone package 
> manually downloaded ?
> How may restarts were done after the installation of IE8 ?

Both, the first run it was from a standalone version I had downloaded, the 
second go around it was from Windows update. Same issue both times. Several 
restarts both times, at least 4 or 5.
>
>
> FWIW, the updates that you posted previously are all script updates ... 
> were they installed in the exact order that you posted them  ?
>
> JScript for KB971961 and KB976662
> VBScript for KB981332

All were installed at the sametime through Windows updates and were all 
installed after all XP updates were installed. If I go for IE8 again I will 
install them in the order they were released from Microsoft.

>
>
> MowGreen
> ================
>  *-343-* FDNY
> Never Forgotten
> ================
>
> banthecheck.com
> "Security updates should *never* have *non-security content* prechecked 

Thanks for the information. After checking the 'Known issue sections'' 
of  KB981332 and KB971961 it appears that you did install "things" in 
the order MS suggests. The key word being "appears".

As far as not having an AV installed ... the system will be safe as long 
as the native XP firewall is being used in conjunction with a router 
that does NAT and/or contains a hardware firewall.

FWIW, I've run Windows Media Center ( which is just a subset of XP Pro) 
for over 3 years now with no AV installed and there's no sign of any 
malware whatsoever. The only protection is Spyware Blaster. IE 8 is 
installed now and the browser I use, Firefox with the NoScript add on 
installed, blocks all scripts from running until I can inspect them.
All media played on the system is thoroughly scanned on an older XP Pro 
box with various local and online scanners before it's allowed anywhere 
near the MCE boxen. So far, so'kay. <w>


MowGreen
================
  *-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
================

banthecheck.com
"Security updates should *never* have *non-security content* prechecked


-
V wrote:
> See answers to your questions below.
> I am now in the process of removing IE8 because removing the updates seemed
> to help but only on the first reboot. Then the issues started again on
> reboot #2.
>
> Aside from my answers below I am going to use my computer to download all
> updated drivers from the Acer Support site and see if that helps.
>
> I know PA did not approve of not having Antivirus installed and neither do I
> but on the second go around I was hoping to eliminate the possibility of the
> antivirus program somehow getting in the way. I was going for anything that
> could shed some light on the issue.
>
> One last thing is that when this machine is rebuilt it offers me a Flash
> Update via windows updates. It always fails. After installing IE8 that
> update goes away.
>
> My boss can get by without IE8 so I am considering rebuilding the machine
> again and going to IE7 skipping IE8 but probably not because I want to see
> if putting all the new drivers dated Dec 2008 from Acer helps first. Willing
> to try that before I give up on this thing.
>
> One other thing I want to do is get my hands on an XP Home CD. I run Pro on
> everything else. If I can get this CD I will install it clean on a
> preformatted NTFS drive instead of having to convert the drive to NTFS from
> FAT32 which is what the Recovery CD Does to me.
>
> This is the first time ever I have run into a computer I could not make
> work.

I will let you know what the outcome of this is. I told my boss I will work 
on this one more day and then call it done. Sometimes it is more effort to 
make something work than what it is worth and how much time is available.

After doing a reinstall with new drivers I will try to go as far as IE7. If 
that works it will meet his needs for now. If it fails I will tell him it is 
time for a new machine.
"MowGreen" <mowgreen@nowandzen.com> wrote in message 
news:%239PFHv2ALHA.584@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Thanks for the information. After checking the 'Known issue sections'' of 
> KB981332 and KB971961 it appears that you did install "things" in the 
> order MS suggests. The key word being "appears".
>
> As far as not having an AV installed ... the system will be safe as long 
> as the native XP firewall is being used in conjunction with a router that 
> does NAT and/or contains a hardware firewall.
>
> FWIW, I've run Windows Media Center ( which is just a subset of XP Pro) 
> for over 3 years now with no AV installed and there's no sign of any 
> malware whatsoever. The only protection is Spyware Blaster. IE 8 is 
> installed now and the browser I use, Firefox with the NoScript add on 
> installed, blocks all scripts from running until I can inspect them.
> All media played on the system is thoroughly scanned on an older XP Pro 
> box with various local and online scanners before it's allowed anywhere 
> near the MCE boxen. So far, so'kay. <w>
>
>
> MowGreen
> ================
>  *-343-* FDNY
> Never Forgotten
> ================
>
> banthecheck.com
> "Security updates should *never* have *non-security content* prechecked
>
>
> -
> V wrote:
>> See answers to your questions below.
>> I am now in the process of removing IE8 because removing the updates 
>> seemed
>> to help but only on the first reboot. Then the issues started again on
>> reboot #2.
>>
>> Aside from my answers below I am going to use my computer to download all
>> updated drivers from the Acer Support site and see if that helps.
>>
>> I know PA did not approve of not having Antivirus installed and neither 
>> do I
>> but on the second go around I was hoping to eliminate the possibility of 
>> the
>> antivirus program somehow getting in the way. I was going for anything 
>> that
>> could shed some light on the issue.
>>
>> One last thing is that when this machine is rebuilt it offers me a Flash
>> Update via windows updates. It always fails. After installing IE8 that
>> update goes away.
>>
>> My boss can get by without IE8 so I am considering rebuilding the machine
>> again and going to IE7 skipping IE8 but probably not because I want to 
>> see
>> if putting all the new drivers dated Dec 2008 from Acer helps first. 
>> Willing
>> to try that before I give up on this thing.
>>
>> One other thing I want to do is get my hands on an XP Home CD. I run Pro 
>> on
>> everything else. If I can get this CD I will install it clean on a
>> preformatted NTFS drive instead of having to convert the drive to NTFS 
>> from
>> FAT32 which is what the Recovery CD Does to me.
>>
>> This is the first time ever I have run into a computer I could not make
>> work. 

Latest update, the drivers offered on the Acer website are not newer than 
what came with the machine even though they are dated newer.

Go Figure

In process of third rebuild right now. Am actually at the SP3 install 
section.
"V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
news:edQQaz2ALHA.5848@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>I will let you know what the outcome of this is. I told my boss I will work 
>on this one more day and then call it done. Sometimes it is more effort to 
>make something work than what it is worth and how much time is available.
>
> After doing a reinstall with new drivers I will try to go as far as IE7. 
> If that works it will meet his needs for now. If it fails I will tell him 
> it is time for a new machine.
> "MowGreen" <mowgreen@nowandzen.com> wrote in message 
> news:%239PFHv2ALHA.584@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> Thanks for the information. After checking the 'Known issue sections'' of 
>> KB981332 and KB971961 it appears that you did install "things" in the 
>> order MS suggests. The key word being "appears".
>>
>> As far as not having an AV installed ... the system will be safe as long 
>> as the native XP firewall is being used in conjunction with a router that 
>> does NAT and/or contains a hardware firewall.
>>
>> FWIW, I've run Windows Media Center ( which is just a subset of XP Pro) 
>> for over 3 years now with no AV installed and there's no sign of any 
>> malware whatsoever. The only protection is Spyware Blaster. IE 8 is 
>> installed now and the browser I use, Firefox with the NoScript add on 
>> installed, blocks all scripts from running until I can inspect them.
>> All media played on the system is thoroughly scanned on an older XP Pro 
>> box with various local and online scanners before it's allowed anywhere 
>> near the MCE boxen. So far, so'kay. <w>
>>
>>
>> MowGreen
>> ================
>>  *-343-* FDNY
>> Never Forgotten
>> ================
>>
>> banthecheck.com
>> "Security updates should *never* have *non-security content* prechecked
>>
>>
>> -
>> V wrote:
>>> See answers to your questions below.
>>> I am now in the process of removing IE8 because removing the updates 
>>> seemed
>>> to help but only on the first reboot. Then the issues started again on
>>> reboot #2.
>>>
>>> Aside from my answers below I am going to use my computer to download 
>>> all
>>> updated drivers from the Acer Support site and see if that helps.
>>>
>>> I know PA did not approve of not having Antivirus installed and neither 
>>> do I
>>> but on the second go around I was hoping to eliminate the possibility of 
>>> the
>>> antivirus program somehow getting in the way. I was going for anything 
>>> that
>>> could shed some light on the issue.
>>>
>>> One last thing is that when this machine is rebuilt it offers me a Flash
>>> Update via windows updates. It always fails. After installing IE8 that
>>> update goes away.
>>>
>>> My boss can get by without IE8 so I am considering rebuilding the 
>>> machine
>>> again and going to IE7 skipping IE8 but probably not because I want to 
>>> see
>>> if putting all the new drivers dated Dec 2008 from Acer helps first. 
>>> Willing
>>> to try that before I give up on this thing.
>>>
>>> One other thing I want to do is get my hands on an XP Home CD. I run Pro 
>>> on
>>> everything else. If I can get this CD I will install it clean on a
>>> preformatted NTFS drive instead of having to convert the drive to NTFS 
>>> from
>>> FAT32 which is what the Recovery CD Does to me.
>>>
>>> This is the first time ever I have run into a computer I could not make
>>> work.
>
> 

V,

Assuming it is a single machine that you are having trouble with, keep in mind 
the possibility that this is a hardware issue.

   Harry.

On 2010-06-03 8:05 p.m., V wrote:

> Hi all I have a good one here for you.
>
> I have reformatted a computer twice tonight and have had the exact same
> issue twice. I at least have it narrowed down to some windows updates.
>
> System:
> XP Home SP3
> IE6 Direct upgrade to IE8.
> No antivirus installed as of yet because tried to replicate issue and
> eliminate it as an issue.
>
> Here is what happens.
>
> Do a fresh clean install from recovery cd's which gives me SP2. Then upgrade
> to SP3.
>
> Go and get all high priority updates for the computer. Flash Player Security
> Update fails.
>
> Go back to Windows updates and get notice that components are not
> registered. No big deal just reboot scan again and all is well.
>
> Now that all XP updates are installed I decide to put in IE8. I did this
> eariler the first time which is why I did not know it was the issue.
>
> Anyway after installing IE8 all is still well at this point.
>
> After installing IE8 I get 3 new high priority updates. Download and install
> the updates and the machine becomes toast. I do not yet have automatic
> updates turned on so each reboot I got the notice that I need to adjust the
> settings. This notice no longer comes up after the security updates for IE8
> were installed. The machine also no longer reboots and freezes up. Can not
> even shut the machine down normally. I have to hold the power  button to
> turn it off.
>
> I sure wish I could tell you the three updates that were involved so maybe
> you could narrow it down but I just am not sure because I can nolonger get
> to add remove programs or event viewer to tell you what is happening or what
> the last updates were. IE will not open so I can not look on the windows
> update site either.
>
> Looks like I may have to rebuild this machine and stick with IE7.
>
> I have never had an issue like this in my life where a clean install of
> windows acts like this. Not once but twice and antivirus of any kind has not
> been installed.
>
> Go figure. I have wasted hours and accomplished nothing.
>
>
>


-- 
Harry Johnston
http://harryjohnston.wordpress.com

Well,  Bad news.

This machine has seen it's last days.

I have tried to run diagnostic tool of all kinds on the machine. Turns out 
the machine works just well enough to make one think they have a software 
issue but the reality is the mainboard must be bad.

On my third attemp to make it run it did not even get past Windows updates 
the first time. Somehow it did manage every time to get past XPSP3 but once 
updates started it crashes. This time it took three boots just to get it 
going again.

Then the next step took it all all the way.

Some diagnostic tests run some don't. If this machine can not even run a 
linux based boot disc with diagnostic tools part of the time it is time to 
be dumped.

Since I have not determined the exact cause of the issues I will trash the 
entire machine and not keep any spare parts.


"V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
news:%23NWoBOvALHA.1700@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Hi all I have a good one here for you.
>
> I have reformatted a computer twice tonight and have had the exact same 
> issue twice. I at least have it narrowed down to some windows updates.
>
> System:
> XP Home SP3
> IE6 Direct upgrade to IE8.
> No antivirus installed as of yet because tried to replicate issue and 
> eliminate it as an issue.
>
> Here is what happens.
>
> Do a fresh clean install from recovery cd's which gives me SP2. Then 
> upgrade to SP3.
>
> Go and get all high priority updates for the computer. Flash Player 
> Security Update fails.
>
> Go back to Windows updates and get notice that components are not 
> registered. No big deal just reboot scan again and all is well.
>
> Now that all XP updates are installed I decide to put in IE8. I did this 
> eariler the first time which is why I did not know it was the issue.
>
> Anyway after installing IE8 all is still well at this point.
>
> After installing IE8 I get 3 new high priority updates. Download and 
> install the updates and the machine becomes toast. I do not yet have 
> automatic updates turned on so each reboot I got the notice that I need to 
> adjust the settings. This notice no longer comes up after the security 
> updates for IE8 were installed. The machine also no longer reboots and 
> freezes up. Can not even shut the machine down normally. I have to hold 
> the power  button to turn it off.
>
> I sure wish I could tell you the three updates that were involved so maybe 
> you could narrow it down but I just am not sure because I can nolonger get 
> to add remove programs or event viewer to tell you what is happening or 
> what the last updates were. IE will not open so I can not look on the 
> windows update site either.
>
> Looks like I may have to rebuild this machine and stick with IE7.
>
> I have never had an issue like this in my life where a clean install of 
> windows acts like this. Not once but twice and antivirus of any kind has 
> not been installed.
>
> Go figure. I have wasted hours and accomplished nothing.
>
>
> 

"V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
news:uUYHms1ALHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...


> I have successfully removed the updates by doing a system restore and the 
> machine is once again working perfectly. This now tells me the Antivirus 
> program was not causing an issue but rather Windows Updates are at fault.
>
> I will be reinstalling the updates one at a time until I figure out which 
> one is the problem.

Not a surprise to me.  I had my computer totally crashed after one of 
Microsoft's "debugged and released to the public" updates.


A days work getting the problem fixed and the OS re-installed and working 
properly and another day getting the software back up and running.

Microsoft's tech could have cared less. He was getting paid. But, I wasn't.

Not surprisingly, I no longer use any Microsoft software when I have a good 
alternative.


 

"A days work getting the problem fixed..."

Too bad you haven't heard about backing up. You could have been back at 
work in minutes.
---
Leonard Grey
Errare humanum est

Lucky wrote:
> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
> news:uUYHms1ALHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> 
> 
>> I have successfully removed the updates by doing a system restore and 
>> the machine is once again working perfectly. This now tells me the 
>> Antivirus program was not causing an issue but rather Windows Updates 
>> are at fault.
>>
>> I will be reinstalling the updates one at a time until I figure out 
>> which one is the problem.
> 
> Not a surprise to me.  I had my computer totally crashed after one of 
> Microsoft's "debugged and released to the public" updates.
> 
> 
> A days work getting the problem fixed and the OS re-installed and 
> working properly and another day getting the software back up and running.
> 
> Microsoft's tech could have cared less. He was getting paid. But, I wasn't.
> 
> Not surprisingly, I no longer use any Microsoft software when I have a 
> good alternative.
> 
> 
> 
> 

V wrote:
> Well,  Bad news.
>
> This machine has seen it's last days.
>
> I have tried to run diagnostic tool of all kinds on the machine. Turns out
> the machine works just well enough to make one think they have a software
> issue but the reality is the mainboard must be bad.
>
> On my third attemp to make it run it did not even get past Windows updates
> the first time. Somehow it did manage every time to get past XPSP3 but once
> updates started it crashes. This time it took three boots just to get it
> going again.
>
> Then the next step took it all all the way.
>
> Some diagnostic tests run some don't. If this machine can not even run a
> linux based boot disc with diagnostic tools part of the time it is time to
> be dumped.
>
> Since I have not determined the exact cause of the issues I will trash the
> entire machine and not keep any spare parts.


Hardware issues can be 'intriguing' and absolutely the most frustrating 
computer issues to diagnose. Thanks for seeing this through to the 
"bitter" end and posting back, V.


MowGreen
================
  *-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
================

banthecheck.com
"Security updates should *never* have *non-security content* prechecked

I agree totally espically when it is an intermittent. The machine just 
sometimes would boot all the way and sometimes not. It looked booted but you 
could tell it was not totally finished because the Autoupdate and Security 
warnings about antivirus not being installed would come up on soom boots but 
not the others.

Anyway glad the fight is over and I now have a new machine in my possession 
to get ready for the boss to use.

Thanks for chiming in.
"MowGreen" <mowgreen@nowandzen.com> wrote in message 
news:%23YuETmABLHA.5476@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>V wrote:
>> Well,  Bad news.
>>
>> This machine has seen it's last days.
>>
>> I have tried to run diagnostic tool of all kinds on the machine. Turns 
>> out
>> the machine works just well enough to make one think they have a software
>> issue but the reality is the mainboard must be bad.
>>
>> On my third attemp to make it run it did not even get past Windows 
>> updates
>> the first time. Somehow it did manage every time to get past XPSP3 but 
>> once
>> updates started it crashes. This time it took three boots just to get it
>> going again.
>>
>> Then the next step took it all all the way.
>>
>> Some diagnostic tests run some don't. If this machine can not even run a
>> linux based boot disc with diagnostic tools part of the time it is time 
>> to
>> be dumped.
>>
>> Since I have not determined the exact cause of the issues I will trash 
>> the
>> entire machine and not keep any spare parts.
>
>
> Hardware issues can be 'intriguing' and absolutely the most frustrating 
> computer issues to diagnose. Thanks for seeing this through to the 
> "bitter" end and posting back, V.
>
>
> MowGreen
> ================
>  *-343-* FDNY
> Never Forgotten
> ================
>
> banthecheck.com
> "Security updates should *never* have *non-security content* prechecked 

Not to sound negative here but for some reason on this case everyone here is 
giving me grief about things
they think I should have done and not done like backing up without asking if 
I did so and Not having
Antivirus for one of the tests. I explained Antivirus eariler.

Backing up is not the issue here. I probably backup more than anyone. I have
multipal  backups in several locations. One on site and two remote
locations. I have never lost anything due to not having a backup.

Had this machine worked like it should the thing would have been up and
running in no time. I also have many other computers at my becon call so one
machine down for a few hours or even days will not kill me.

The days work involved trying to get the darn machine just back in running
condition before I even tried to recover the backups. We wanted badly to
keep the XP machine running just due to some old software we wanted to run
on it.

This machine is one of those things that turned out to be very hard to find.
Like a car that don't work for you but works just fine when you take it to
the shop. Turns out there is an intermittent short in the mainboard that
made you think it was the OS when it really was hardware related.

Anyway the computer is now in the dumpster and a new one was purchased.
"Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:ujS8J4$ALHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> "A days work getting the problem fixed..."
>
> Too bad you haven't heard about backing up. You could have been back at
> work in minutes.
> ---
> Leonard Grey
> Errare humanum est
>
> Lucky wrote:
>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message
>> news:uUYHms1ALHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>
>>
>>> I have successfully removed the updates by doing a system restore and
>>> the machine is once again working perfectly. This now tells me the
>>> Antivirus program was not causing an issue but rather Windows Updates
>>> are at fault.
>>>
>>> I will be reinstalling the updates one at a time until I figure out
>>> which one is the problem.
>>
>> Not a surprise to me.  I had my computer totally crashed after one of
>> Microsoft's "debugged and released to the public" updates.
>>
>>
>> A days work getting the problem fixed and the OS re-installed and working
>> properly and another day getting the software back up and running.
>>
>> Microsoft's tech could have cared less. He was getting paid. But, I
>> wasn't.
>>
>> Not surprisingly, I no longer use any Microsoft software when I have a
>> good alternative.
>>
>>
>>

My computer crashed. I had to do a complete reformat and clean install(as 
recommended by the MS Tech).
The files were the easy part. They WERE backed up. Do you know of a backup 
that covers the total operating system, all of Windows related programs and 
all the programs that I had installed on the computer. Please let me know if 
you do, because I would sure be interested.\

Lucky

"Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
news:ujS8J4$ALHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> "A days work getting the problem fixed..."
>
> Too bad you haven't heard about backing up. You could have been back at 
> work in minutes.
> ---
> Leonard Grey
> Errare humanum est
>
> Lucky wrote:
>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
>> news:uUYHms1ALHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>
>>
>>> I have successfully removed the updates by doing a system restore and 
>>> the machine is once again working perfectly. This now tells me the 
>>> Antivirus program was not causing an issue but rather Windows Updates 
>>> are at fault.
>>>
>>> I will be reinstalling the updates one at a time until I figure out 
>>> which one is the problem.
>>
>> Not a surprise to me.  I had my computer totally crashed after one of 
>> Microsoft's "debugged and released to the public" updates.
>>
>>
>> A days work getting the problem fixed and the OS re-installed and working 
>> properly and another day getting the software back up and running.
>>
>> Microsoft's tech could have cared less. He was getting paid. But, I 
>> wasn't.
>>
>> Not surprisingly, I no longer use any Microsoft software when I have a 
>> good alternative.
>>
>>
>> 

Lucky <harold777@hotmail.com> wrote:
> My computer crashed. I had to do a complete reformat and clean install(as 
> recommended by the MS Tech).
> The files were the easy part. They WERE backed up. Do you know of a backup 
> that covers the total operating system, all of Windows related programs and 
> all the programs that I had installed on the computer. Please let me know if 
> you do, because I would sure be interested.\

Of course that exists, but it would be useless to use because it would
restore the defects that were present when the backup was made as well.
So you never can go back to a clean state when using such a backup.

The type of backup you are asking about is called an image, or a disk 
image. An image is an exact, sector-by-sector copy of a disk or disk 
partition, including the disk meta-data needed to boot. With a disk 
imaging application, you can backup your software (including Windows) so 
that you never have to re-install from scratch again.

Disk imaging is a powerful tool, and a little difficult to grasp at 
first. But it's so worth the effort to learn how it works and how to use it.

Once you learn how to use the software, you'll want to backup every day, 
at least. Then, the next time a bad driver update (for example) hoses 
your system, you merely chuckle as you pour yourself a soothing /Haut 
Medoc/ while your imaging application restores your software to exactly 
the way it was before.

Disk imaging is complex, so there are only a handful of applications 
that do it really well. Some of the better known are (no order 
intended): Acronis True Image, Norton Ghost and Paragon Backup and 
Recovery. I personally use StorageCraft ShadowProtect, but most people 
don't want to spend that much ($90) for backup software.
---
Leonard Grey
Errare humanum est

Lucky wrote:
> My computer crashed. I had to do a complete reformat and clean 
> install(as recommended by the MS Tech).
> The files were the easy part. They WERE backed up. Do you know of a 
> backup that covers the total operating system, all of Windows related 
> programs and all the programs that I had installed on the computer. 
> Please let me know if you do, because I would sure be interested.\
> 
> Lucky
> 
> "Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:ujS8J4$ALHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> "A days work getting the problem fixed..."
>>
>> Too bad you haven't heard about backing up. You could have been back 
>> at work in minutes.
>> ---
>> Leonard Grey
>> Errare humanum est
>>
>> Lucky wrote:
>>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:uUYHms1ALHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have successfully removed the updates by doing a system restore 
>>>> and the machine is once again working perfectly. This now tells me 
>>>> the Antivirus program was not causing an issue but rather Windows 
>>>> Updates are at fault.
>>>>
>>>> I will be reinstalling the updates one at a time until I figure out 
>>>> which one is the problem.
>>>
>>> Not a surprise to me.  I had my computer totally crashed after one of 
>>> Microsoft's "debugged and released to the public" updates.
>>>
>>>
>>> A days work getting the problem fixed and the OS re-installed and 
>>> working properly and another day getting the software back up and 
>>> running.
>>>
>>> Microsoft's tech could have cared less. He was getting paid. But, I 
>>> wasn't.
>>>
>>> Not surprisingly, I no longer use any Microsoft software when I have 
>>> a good alternative.
>>>
>>>
>>>

No offense, but many of the backup and/or imaging programs have the means to 
boot outside of the operating system, so a "days work involved trying to get 
the darn machine just back in running condition before I even tried to 
recover the backups" wouldn't have been necessary. When my HDD crashed, I 
was back up and running in less than 4 hours, and that included the trip to 
store to buy a new drive.
-- 
SC Tom

"V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
news:%23Xt$YaCBLHA.1892@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Not to sound negative here but for some reason on this case everyone here 
> is giving me grief about things
> they think I should have done and not done like backing up without asking 
> if I did so and Not having
> Antivirus for one of the tests. I explained Antivirus eariler.
>
> Backing up is not the issue here. I probably backup more than anyone. I 
> have
> multipal  backups in several locations. One on site and two remote
> locations. I have never lost anything due to not having a backup.
>
> Had this machine worked like it should the thing would have been up and
> running in no time. I also have many other computers at my becon call so 
> one
> machine down for a few hours or even days will not kill me.
>
> The days work involved trying to get the darn machine just back in running
> condition before I even tried to recover the backups. We wanted badly to
> keep the XP machine running just due to some old software we wanted to run
> on it.
>
> This machine is one of those things that turned out to be very hard to 
> find.
> Like a car that don't work for you but works just fine when you take it to
> the shop. Turns out there is an intermittent short in the mainboard that
> made you think it was the OS when it really was hardware related.
>
> Anyway the computer is now in the dumpster and a new one was purchased.
> "Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:ujS8J4$ALHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> "A days work getting the problem fixed..."
>>
>> Too bad you haven't heard about backing up. You could have been back at
>> work in minutes.
>> ---
>> Leonard Grey
>> Errare humanum est
>>
>> Lucky wrote:
>>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message
>>> news:uUYHms1ALHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have successfully removed the updates by doing a system restore and
>>>> the machine is once again working perfectly. This now tells me the
>>>> Antivirus program was not causing an issue but rather Windows Updates
>>>> are at fault.
>>>>
>>>> I will be reinstalling the updates one at a time until I figure out
>>>> which one is the problem.
>>>
>>> Not a surprise to me.  I had my computer totally crashed after one of
>>> Microsoft's "debugged and released to the public" updates.
>>>
>>>
>>> A days work getting the problem fixed and the OS re-installed and 
>>> working
>>> properly and another day getting the software back up and running.
>>>
>>> Microsoft's tech could have cared less. He was getting paid. But, I
>>> wasn't.
>>>
>>> Not surprisingly, I no longer use any Microsoft software when I have a
>>> good alternative.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> 

"Rob" <nomail@example.com> wrote in message 
news:slrni0jvte.332.nomail@xs8.xs4all.nl...
> Lucky <harold777@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> My computer crashed. I had to do a complete reformat and clean install(as
>> recommended by the MS Tech).
>> The files were the easy part. They WERE backed up. Do you know of a 
>> backup
>> that covers the total operating system, all of Windows related programs 
>> and
>> all the programs that I had installed on the computer. Please let me know 
>> if
>> you do, because I would sure be interested.\
>
> Of course that exists, but it would be useless to use because it would
> restore the defects that were present when the backup was made as well.
> So you never can go back to a clean state when using such a backup.

If you do your backups on a regular schedule when your machine is running 
correctly, then you won't be restoring the "defects."
-- 
SC Tom
 

Thanks for making this a suggestion instead of assuming.

You are correct about booting out of the operating system to test the 
hardware. I did that with a live version of Linux. all seemed well so I 
continued on.

Reloaded the software just to find out I had issues during Windows updates. 
Thought maybe got a corrupt update and that caused my issues.

Anyway in the end on the last attempt the issue got worse and that is when I 
decided it was a mainboard short.

Seems that you can boot it good several times then the next two or three 
times it would not boot at all then finally it would boot again. Then it 
would stop again.

Just one of those issues where you thing you have it fixed just to find out 
you were looking in the wrong place.

Just wish it had been something obvious like a bad hard drive or cd rom 
drive and or even memory, but it was not.

Oh Well I guess getting burned by tricky hardware once in 10 years is not 
bad.

Have a good day.

"SC Tom" <sc@tom.net> wrote in message 
news:ODANt0KBLHA.4500@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> No offense, but many of the backup and/or imaging programs have the means 
> to boot outside of the operating system, so a "days work involved trying 
> to get the darn machine just back in running condition before I even tried 
> to recover the backups" wouldn't have been necessary. When my HDD crashed, 
> I was back up and running in less than 4 hours, and that included the trip 
> to store to buy a new drive.
> -- 
> SC Tom
>
> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
> news:%23Xt$YaCBLHA.1892@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Not to sound negative here but for some reason on this case everyone here 
>> is giving me grief about things
>> they think I should have done and not done like backing up without asking 
>> if I did so and Not having
>> Antivirus for one of the tests. I explained Antivirus eariler.
>>
>> Backing up is not the issue here. I probably backup more than anyone. I 
>> have
>> multipal  backups in several locations. One on site and two remote
>> locations. I have never lost anything due to not having a backup.
>>
>> Had this machine worked like it should the thing would have been up and
>> running in no time. I also have many other computers at my becon call so 
>> one
>> machine down for a few hours or even days will not kill me.
>>
>> The days work involved trying to get the darn machine just back in 
>> running
>> condition before I even tried to recover the backups. We wanted badly to
>> keep the XP machine running just due to some old software we wanted to 
>> run
>> on it.
>>
>> This machine is one of those things that turned out to be very hard to 
>> find.
>> Like a car that don't work for you but works just fine when you take it 
>> to
>> the shop. Turns out there is an intermittent short in the mainboard that
>> made you think it was the OS when it really was hardware related.
>>
>> Anyway the computer is now in the dumpster and a new one was purchased.
>> "Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:ujS8J4$ALHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> "A days work getting the problem fixed..."
>>>
>>> Too bad you haven't heard about backing up. You could have been back at
>>> work in minutes.
>>> ---
>>> Leonard Grey
>>> Errare humanum est
>>>
>>> Lucky wrote:
>>>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:uUYHms1ALHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have successfully removed the updates by doing a system restore and
>>>>> the machine is once again working perfectly. This now tells me the
>>>>> Antivirus program was not causing an issue but rather Windows Updates
>>>>> are at fault.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will be reinstalling the updates one at a time until I figure out
>>>>> which one is the problem.
>>>>
>>>> Not a surprise to me.  I had my computer totally crashed after one of
>>>> Microsoft's "debugged and released to the public" updates.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A days work getting the problem fixed and the OS re-installed and 
>>>> working
>>>> properly and another day getting the software back up and running.
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft's tech could have cared less. He was getting paid. But, I
>>>> wasn't.
>>>>
>>>> Not surprisingly, I no longer use any Microsoft software when I have a
>>>> good alternative.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
> 

Sounds like it may possibly be a shorted capacitor or two. That's fixable, 
if you want to go through the trouble of finding which one(s) it is. With 
the cost of boards being what they are, I personally probably wouldn't go 
through that kind of problem unless I wanted a project to work on :-)
-- 
SC Tom

P.S. I try not to assume. It just seems to get me in trouble. . .

"V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
news:ecp4c9bBLHA.3880@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Thanks for making this a suggestion instead of assuming.
>
> You are correct about booting out of the operating system to test the 
> hardware. I did that with a live version of Linux. all seemed well so I 
> continued on.
>
> Reloaded the software just to find out I had issues during Windows 
> updates. Thought maybe got a corrupt update and that caused my issues.
>
> Anyway in the end on the last attempt the issue got worse and that is when 
> I decided it was a mainboard short.
>
> Seems that you can boot it good several times then the next two or three 
> times it would not boot at all then finally it would boot again. Then it 
> would stop again.
>
> Just one of those issues where you thing you have it fixed just to find 
> out you were looking in the wrong place.
>
> Just wish it had been something obvious like a bad hard drive or cd rom 
> drive and or even memory, but it was not.
>
> Oh Well I guess getting burned by tricky hardware once in 10 years is not 
> bad.
>
> Have a good day.
>
> "SC Tom" <sc@tom.net> wrote in message 
> news:ODANt0KBLHA.4500@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> No offense, but many of the backup and/or imaging programs have the means 
>> to boot outside of the operating system, so a "days work involved trying 
>> to get the darn machine just back in running condition before I even 
>> tried to recover the backups" wouldn't have been necessary. When my HDD 
>> crashed, I was back up and running in less than 4 hours, and that 
>> included the trip to store to buy a new drive.
>> -- 
>> SC Tom
>>
>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
>> news:%23Xt$YaCBLHA.1892@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> Not to sound negative here but for some reason on this case everyone 
>>> here is giving me grief about things
>>> they think I should have done and not done like backing up without 
>>> asking if I did so and Not having
>>> Antivirus for one of the tests. I explained Antivirus eariler.
>>>
>>> Backing up is not the issue here. I probably backup more than anyone. I 
>>> have
>>> multipal  backups in several locations. One on site and two remote
>>> locations. I have never lost anything due to not having a backup.
>>>
>>> Had this machine worked like it should the thing would have been up and
>>> running in no time. I also have many other computers at my becon call so 
>>> one
>>> machine down for a few hours or even days will not kill me.
>>>
>>> The days work involved trying to get the darn machine just back in 
>>> running
>>> condition before I even tried to recover the backups. We wanted badly to
>>> keep the XP machine running just due to some old software we wanted to 
>>> run
>>> on it.
>>>
>>> This machine is one of those things that turned out to be very hard to 
>>> find.
>>> Like a car that don't work for you but works just fine when you take it 
>>> to
>>> the shop. Turns out there is an intermittent short in the mainboard that
>>> made you think it was the OS when it really was hardware related.
>>>
>>> Anyway the computer is now in the dumpster and a new one was purchased.
>>> "Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:ujS8J4$ALHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>> "A days work getting the problem fixed..."
>>>>
>>>> Too bad you haven't heard about backing up. You could have been back at
>>>> work in minutes.
>>>> ---
>>>> Leonard Grey
>>>> Errare humanum est
>>>>
>>>> Lucky wrote:
>>>>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:uUYHms1ALHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have successfully removed the updates by doing a system restore and
>>>>>> the machine is once again working perfectly. This now tells me the
>>>>>> Antivirus program was not causing an issue but rather Windows Updates
>>>>>> are at fault.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will be reinstalling the updates one at a time until I figure out
>>>>>> which one is the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not a surprise to me.  I had my computer totally crashed after one of
>>>>> Microsoft's "debugged and released to the public" updates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A days work getting the problem fixed and the OS re-installed and 
>>>>> working
>>>>> properly and another day getting the software back up and running.
>>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft's tech could have cared less. He was getting paid. But, I
>>>>> wasn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not surprisingly, I no longer use any Microsoft software when I have a
>>>>> good alternative.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> 

Thanks   Leonard. I will look into that.  Almost anything is preferable to 
what I had to go through
to get my computer up and running again.

I hesitate to point out the obvious.
If Microsoft would properly debug it update BEFORE releases thing, it would 
not be a concern.

But then if pigs could fly------I think they have about the same chance of 
occurring.


"Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
news:uSAKfpIBLHA.4308@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> The type of backup you are asking about is called an image, or a disk 
> image. An image is an exact, sector-by-sector copy of a disk or disk 
> partition, including the disk meta-data needed to boot. With a disk 
> imaging application, you can backup your software (including Windows) so 
> that you never have to re-install from scratch again.
>
> Disk imaging is a powerful tool, and a little difficult to grasp at first. 
> But it's so worth the effort to learn how it works and how to use it.
>
> Once you learn how to use the software, you'll want to backup every day, 
> at least. Then, the next time a bad driver update (for example) hoses your 
> system, you merely chuckle as you pour yourself a soothing /Haut Medoc/ 
> while your imaging application restores your software to exactly the way 
> it was before.
>
> Disk imaging is complex, so there are only a handful of applications that 
> do it really well. Some of the better known are (no order intended): 
> Acronis True Image, Norton Ghost and Paragon Backup and Recovery. I 
> personally use StorageCraft ShadowProtect, but most people don't want to 
> spend that much ($90) for backup software.
> ---
> Leonard Grey
> Errare humanum est
>
> Lucky wrote:
>> My computer crashed. I had to do a complete reformat and clean install(as 
>> recommended by the MS Tech).
>> The files were the easy part. They WERE backed up. Do you know of a 
>> backup that covers the total operating system, all of Windows related 
>> programs and all the programs that I had installed on the computer. 
>> Please let me know if you do, because I would sure be interested.\
>>
>> Lucky
>>
>> "Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
>> news:ujS8J4$ALHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> "A days work getting the problem fixed..."
>>>
>>> Too bad you haven't heard about backing up. You could have been back at 
>>> work in minutes.
>>> ---
>>> Leonard Grey
>>> Errare humanum est
>>>
>>> Lucky wrote:
>>>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
>>>> news:uUYHms1ALHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have successfully removed the updates by doing a system restore and 
>>>>> the machine is once again working perfectly. This now tells me the 
>>>>> Antivirus program was not causing an issue but rather Windows Updates 
>>>>> are at fault.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will be reinstalling the updates one at a time until I figure out 
>>>>> which one is the problem.
>>>>
>>>> Not a surprise to me.  I had my computer totally crashed after one of 
>>>> Microsoft's "debugged and released to the public" updates.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A days work getting the problem fixed and the OS re-installed and 
>>>> working properly and another day getting the software back up and 
>>>> running.
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft's tech could have cared less. He was getting paid. But, I 
>>>> wasn't.
>>>>
>>>> Not surprisingly, I no longer use any Microsoft software when I have a 
>>>> good alternative.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 

"I hesitate to point out the obvious..."

If it's so obvious, why don't I have problems with Microsoft updates?

Seems like you need more than a backup program for your problem.
---
Leonard Grey
Errare humanum est

Lucky wrote:
> Thanks   Leonard. I will look into that.  Almost anything is preferable 
> to what I had to go through
> to get my computer up and running again.
> 
> I hesitate to point out the obvious.
> If Microsoft would properly debug it update BEFORE releases thing, it 
> would not be a concern.
> 
> But then if pigs could fly------I think they have about the same chance 
> of occurring.
> 
> 
> "Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:uSAKfpIBLHA.4308@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> The type of backup you are asking about is called an image, or a disk 
>> image. An image is an exact, sector-by-sector copy of a disk or disk 
>> partition, including the disk meta-data needed to boot. With a disk 
>> imaging application, you can backup your software (including Windows) 
>> so that you never have to re-install from scratch again.
>>
>> Disk imaging is a powerful tool, and a little difficult to grasp at 
>> first. But it's so worth the effort to learn how it works and how to 
>> use it.
>>
>> Once you learn how to use the software, you'll want to backup every 
>> day, at least. Then, the next time a bad driver update (for example) 
>> hoses your system, you merely chuckle as you pour yourself a soothing 
>> /Haut Medoc/ while your imaging application restores your software to 
>> exactly the way it was before.
>>
>> Disk imaging is complex, so there are only a handful of applications 
>> that do it really well. Some of the better known are (no order 
>> intended): Acronis True Image, Norton Ghost and Paragon Backup and 
>> Recovery. I personally use StorageCraft ShadowProtect, but most people 
>> don't want to spend that much ($90) for backup software.
>> ---
>> Leonard Grey
>> Errare humanum est
>>
>> Lucky wrote:
>>> My computer crashed. I had to do a complete reformat and clean 
>>> install(as recommended by the MS Tech).
>>> The files were the easy part. They WERE backed up. Do you know of a 
>>> backup that covers the total operating system, all of Windows related 
>>> programs and all the programs that I had installed on the computer. 
>>> Please let me know if you do, because I would sure be interested.\
>>>
>>> Lucky
>>>
>>> "Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
>>> news:ujS8J4$ALHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>> "A days work getting the problem fixed..."
>>>>
>>>> Too bad you haven't heard about backing up. You could have been back 
>>>> at work in minutes.
>>>> ---
>>>> Leonard Grey
>>>> Errare humanum est
>>>>
>>>> Lucky wrote:
>>>>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:uUYHms1ALHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have successfully removed the updates by doing a system restore 
>>>>>> and the machine is once again working perfectly. This now tells me 
>>>>>> the Antivirus program was not causing an issue but rather Windows 
>>>>>> Updates are at fault.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will be reinstalling the updates one at a time until I figure 
>>>>>> out which one is the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not a surprise to me.  I had my computer totally crashed after one 
>>>>> of Microsoft's "debugged and released to the public" updates.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A days work getting the problem fixed and the OS re-installed and 
>>>>> working properly and another day getting the software back up and 
>>>>> running.
>>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft's tech could have cared less. He was getting paid. But, I 
>>>>> wasn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not surprisingly, I no longer use any Microsoft software when I 
>>>>> have a good alternative.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
> 

"Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
news:%233BA%23IdBLHA.4660@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> "I hesitate to point out the obvious..."
>
> If it's so obvious, why don't I have problems with Microsoft updates?
>
> Seems like you need more than a backup program for your problem.
> ---
> Leonard Grey
> Errare humanum est



Leonard, you were doing fine until you resorted to flaming. I was following 
the instructions of a Microsoft Support Tech.

If it had not had been for that, I would not have needed a complete reformat 
and re-install.

Like so many of large companys today, Microsoft farms out their Tech Support 
to save money. To be blunt, they getI(rather their customers get) what
Microsoft pays for, which, many times, is someone  who is reading a computer 
screen, rather than possessing knowledge.

Agreed, the computer is long gone and a new one is up and running. Boss not 
happy and glad I insisted on a new computer.


"SC Tom" <sc@tom.net> wrote in message 
news:%23InZojcBLHA.1888@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Sounds like it may possibly be a shorted capacitor or two. That's fixable, 
> if you want to go through the trouble of finding which one(s) it is. With 
> the cost of boards being what they are, I personally probably wouldn't go 
> through that kind of problem unless I wanted a project to work on :-)
> -- 
> SC Tom
>
> P.S. I try not to assume. It just seems to get me in trouble. . .
>
> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
> news:ecp4c9bBLHA.3880@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Thanks for making this a suggestion instead of assuming.
>>
>> You are correct about booting out of the operating system to test the 
>> hardware. I did that with a live version of Linux. all seemed well so I 
>> continued on.
>>
>> Reloaded the software just to find out I had issues during Windows 
>> updates. Thought maybe got a corrupt update and that caused my issues.
>>
>> Anyway in the end on the last attempt the issue got worse and that is 
>> when I decided it was a mainboard short.
>>
>> Seems that you can boot it good several times then the next two or three 
>> times it would not boot at all then finally it would boot again. Then it 
>> would stop again.
>>
>> Just one of those issues where you thing you have it fixed just to find 
>> out you were looking in the wrong place.
>>
>> Just wish it had been something obvious like a bad hard drive or cd rom 
>> drive and or even memory, but it was not.
>>
>> Oh Well I guess getting burned by tricky hardware once in 10 years is not 
>> bad.
>>
>> Have a good day.
>>
>> "SC Tom" <sc@tom.net> wrote in message 
>> news:ODANt0KBLHA.4500@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>> No offense, but many of the backup and/or imaging programs have the 
>>> means to boot outside of the operating system, so a "days work involved 
>>> trying to get the darn machine just back in running condition before I 
>>> even tried to recover the backups" wouldn't have been necessary. When my 
>>> HDD crashed, I was back up and running in less than 4 hours, and that 
>>> included the trip to store to buy a new drive.
>>> -- 
>>> SC Tom
>>>
>>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:%23Xt$YaCBLHA.1892@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>> Not to sound negative here but for some reason on this case everyone 
>>>> here is giving me grief about things
>>>> they think I should have done and not done like backing up without 
>>>> asking if I did so and Not having
>>>> Antivirus for one of the tests. I explained Antivirus eariler.
>>>>
>>>> Backing up is not the issue here. I probably backup more than anyone. I 
>>>> have
>>>> multipal  backups in several locations. One on site and two remote
>>>> locations. I have never lost anything due to not having a backup.
>>>>
>>>> Had this machine worked like it should the thing would have been up and
>>>> running in no time. I also have many other computers at my becon call 
>>>> so one
>>>> machine down for a few hours or even days will not kill me.
>>>>
>>>> The days work involved trying to get the darn machine just back in 
>>>> running
>>>> condition before I even tried to recover the backups. We wanted badly 
>>>> to
>>>> keep the XP machine running just due to some old software we wanted to 
>>>> run
>>>> on it.
>>>>
>>>> This machine is one of those things that turned out to be very hard to 
>>>> find.
>>>> Like a car that don't work for you but works just fine when you take it 
>>>> to
>>>> the shop. Turns out there is an intermittent short in the mainboard 
>>>> that
>>>> made you think it was the OS when it really was hardware related.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway the computer is now in the dumpster and a new one was purchased.
>>>> "Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:ujS8J4$ALHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>> "A days work getting the problem fixed..."
>>>>>
>>>>> Too bad you haven't heard about backing up. You could have been back 
>>>>> at
>>>>> work in minutes.
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Leonard Grey
>>>>> Errare humanum est
>>>>>
>>>>> Lucky wrote:
>>>>>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:uUYHms1ALHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have successfully removed the updates by doing a system restore 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> the machine is once again working perfectly. This now tells me the
>>>>>>> Antivirus program was not causing an issue but rather Windows 
>>>>>>> Updates
>>>>>>> are at fault.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will be reinstalling the updates one at a time until I figure out
>>>>>>> which one is the problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not a surprise to me.  I had my computer totally crashed after one of
>>>>>> Microsoft's "debugged and released to the public" updates.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A days work getting the problem fixed and the OS re-installed and 
>>>>>> working
>>>>>> properly and another day getting the software back up and running.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Microsoft's tech could have cared less. He was getting paid. But, I
>>>>>> wasn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not surprisingly, I no longer use any Microsoft software when I have 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> good alternative.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> 

Hey, gotta keep the boss happy!  :-)

"V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
news:enFM$T1BLHA.4308@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Agreed, the computer is long gone and a new one is up and running. Boss 
> not happy and glad I insisted on a new computer.
>
>
> "SC Tom" <sc@tom.net> wrote in message 
> news:%23InZojcBLHA.1888@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Sounds like it may possibly be a shorted capacitor or two. That's 
>> fixable, if you want to go through the trouble of finding which one(s) it 
>> is. With the cost of boards being what they are, I personally probably 
>> wouldn't go through that kind of problem unless I wanted a project to 
>> work on :-)
>> -- 
>> SC Tom
>>
>> P.S. I try not to assume. It just seems to get me in trouble. . .
>>
>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
>> news:ecp4c9bBLHA.3880@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> Thanks for making this a suggestion instead of assuming.
>>>
>>> You are correct about booting out of the operating system to test the 
>>> hardware. I did that with a live version of Linux. all seemed well so I 
>>> continued on.
>>>
>>> Reloaded the software just to find out I had issues during Windows 
>>> updates. Thought maybe got a corrupt update and that caused my issues.
>>>
>>> Anyway in the end on the last attempt the issue got worse and that is 
>>> when I decided it was a mainboard short.
>>>
>>> Seems that you can boot it good several times then the next two or three 
>>> times it would not boot at all then finally it would boot again. Then it 
>>> would stop again.
>>>
>>> Just one of those issues where you thing you have it fixed just to find 
>>> out you were looking in the wrong place.
>>>
>>> Just wish it had been something obvious like a bad hard drive or cd rom 
>>> drive and or even memory, but it was not.
>>>
>>> Oh Well I guess getting burned by tricky hardware once in 10 years is 
>>> not bad.
>>>
>>> Have a good day.
>>>
>>> "SC Tom" <sc@tom.net> wrote in message 
>>> news:ODANt0KBLHA.4500@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>> No offense, but many of the backup and/or imaging programs have the 
>>>> means to boot outside of the operating system, so a "days work involved 
>>>> trying to get the darn machine just back in running condition before I 
>>>> even tried to recover the backups" wouldn't have been necessary. When 
>>>> my HDD crashed, I was back up and running in less than 4 hours, and 
>>>> that included the trip to store to buy a new drive.
>>>> -- 
>>>> SC Tom
>>>>
>>>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
>>>> news:%23Xt$YaCBLHA.1892@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Not to sound negative here but for some reason on this case everyone 
>>>>> here is giving me grief about things
>>>>> they think I should have done and not done like backing up without 
>>>>> asking if I did so and Not having
>>>>> Antivirus for one of the tests. I explained Antivirus eariler.
>>>>>
>>>>> Backing up is not the issue here. I probably backup more than anyone. 
>>>>> I have
>>>>> multipal  backups in several locations. One on site and two remote
>>>>> locations. I have never lost anything due to not having a backup.
>>>>>
>>>>> Had this machine worked like it should the thing would have been up 
>>>>> and
>>>>> running in no time. I also have many other computers at my becon call 
>>>>> so one
>>>>> machine down for a few hours or even days will not kill me.
>>>>>
>>>>> The days work involved trying to get the darn machine just back in 
>>>>> running
>>>>> condition before I even tried to recover the backups. We wanted badly 
>>>>> to
>>>>> keep the XP machine running just due to some old software we wanted to 
>>>>> run
>>>>> on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> This machine is one of those things that turned out to be very hard to 
>>>>> find.
>>>>> Like a car that don't work for you but works just fine when you take 
>>>>> it to
>>>>> the shop. Turns out there is an intermittent short in the mainboard 
>>>>> that
>>>>> made you think it was the OS when it really was hardware related.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway the computer is now in the dumpster and a new one was 
>>>>> purchased.
>>>>> "Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:ujS8J4$ALHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> "A days work getting the problem fixed..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Too bad you haven't heard about backing up. You could have been back 
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> work in minutes.
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> Leonard Grey
>>>>>> Errare humanum est
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lucky wrote:
>>>>>>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:uUYHms1ALHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have successfully removed the updates by doing a system restore 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> the machine is once again working perfectly. This now tells me the
>>>>>>>> Antivirus program was not causing an issue but rather Windows 
>>>>>>>> Updates
>>>>>>>> are at fault.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I will be reinstalling the updates one at a time until I figure out
>>>>>>>> which one is the problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not a surprise to me.  I had my computer totally crashed after one 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> Microsoft's "debugged and released to the public" updates.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A days work getting the problem fixed and the OS re-installed and 
>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>> properly and another day getting the software back up and running.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Microsoft's tech could have cared less. He was getting paid. But, I
>>>>>>> wasn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not surprisingly, I no longer use any Microsoft software when I have 
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> good alternative.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> 

Yep, and by the way ment boss now happy I typo'ed the last post to say not.

He really did not want a new machine but now that he has a new laptop with 
an LED screen he loves it.
"SC Tom" <sc@tom.net> wrote in message 
news:O76joo1BLHA.5476@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Hey, gotta keep the boss happy!  :-)
>
> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
> news:enFM$T1BLHA.4308@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Agreed, the computer is long gone and a new one is up and running. Boss 
>> not happy and glad I insisted on a new computer.
>>
>>
>> "SC Tom" <sc@tom.net> wrote in message 
>> news:%23InZojcBLHA.1888@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> Sounds like it may possibly be a shorted capacitor or two. That's 
>>> fixable, if you want to go through the trouble of finding which one(s) 
>>> it is. With the cost of boards being what they are, I personally 
>>> probably wouldn't go through that kind of problem unless I wanted a 
>>> project to work on :-)
>>> -- 
>>> SC Tom
>>>
>>> P.S. I try not to assume. It just seems to get me in trouble. . .
>>>
>>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:ecp4c9bBLHA.3880@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>> Thanks for making this a suggestion instead of assuming.
>>>>
>>>> You are correct about booting out of the operating system to test the 
>>>> hardware. I did that with a live version of Linux. all seemed well so I 
>>>> continued on.
>>>>
>>>> Reloaded the software just to find out I had issues during Windows 
>>>> updates. Thought maybe got a corrupt update and that caused my issues.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway in the end on the last attempt the issue got worse and that is 
>>>> when I decided it was a mainboard short.
>>>>
>>>> Seems that you can boot it good several times then the next two or 
>>>> three times it would not boot at all then finally it would boot again. 
>>>> Then it would stop again.
>>>>
>>>> Just one of those issues where you thing you have it fixed just to find 
>>>> out you were looking in the wrong place.
>>>>
>>>> Just wish it had been something obvious like a bad hard drive or cd rom 
>>>> drive and or even memory, but it was not.
>>>>
>>>> Oh Well I guess getting burned by tricky hardware once in 10 years is 
>>>> not bad.
>>>>
>>>> Have a good day.
>>>>
>>>> "SC Tom" <sc@tom.net> wrote in message 
>>>> news:ODANt0KBLHA.4500@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>> No offense, but many of the backup and/or imaging programs have the 
>>>>> means to boot outside of the operating system, so a "days work 
>>>>> involved trying to get the darn machine just back in running condition 
>>>>> before I even tried to recover the backups" wouldn't have been 
>>>>> necessary. When my HDD crashed, I was back up and running in less than 
>>>>> 4 hours, and that included the trip to store to buy a new drive.
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> SC Tom
>>>>>
>>>>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:%23Xt$YaCBLHA.1892@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Not to sound negative here but for some reason on this case everyone 
>>>>>> here is giving me grief about things
>>>>>> they think I should have done and not done like backing up without 
>>>>>> asking if I did so and Not having
>>>>>> Antivirus for one of the tests. I explained Antivirus eariler.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Backing up is not the issue here. I probably backup more than anyone. 
>>>>>> I have
>>>>>> multipal  backups in several locations. One on site and two remote
>>>>>> locations. I have never lost anything due to not having a backup.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Had this machine worked like it should the thing would have been up 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> running in no time. I also have many other computers at my becon call 
>>>>>> so one
>>>>>> machine down for a few hours or even days will not kill me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The days work involved trying to get the darn machine just back in 
>>>>>> running
>>>>>> condition before I even tried to recover the backups. We wanted badly 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> keep the XP machine running just due to some old software we wanted 
>>>>>> to run
>>>>>> on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This machine is one of those things that turned out to be very hard 
>>>>>> to find.
>>>>>> Like a car that don't work for you but works just fine when you take 
>>>>>> it to
>>>>>> the shop. Turns out there is an intermittent short in the mainboard 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> made you think it was the OS when it really was hardware related.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway the computer is now in the dumpster and a new one was 
>>>>>> purchased.
>>>>>> "Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:ujS8J4$ALHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>> "A days work getting the problem fixed..."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Too bad you haven't heard about backing up. You could have been back 
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> work in minutes.
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> Leonard Grey
>>>>>>> Errare humanum est
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lucky wrote:
>>>>>>>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:uUYHms1ALHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have successfully removed the updates by doing a system restore 
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> the machine is once again working perfectly. This now tells me the
>>>>>>>>> Antivirus program was not causing an issue but rather Windows 
>>>>>>>>> Updates
>>>>>>>>> are at fault.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I will be reinstalling the updates one at a time until I figure 
>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>> which one is the problem.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not a surprise to me.  I had my computer totally crashed after one 
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> Microsoft's "debugged and released to the public" updates.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A days work getting the problem fixed and the OS re-installed and 
>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>> properly and another day getting the software back up and running.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Microsoft's tech could have cared less. He was getting paid. But, I
>>>>>>>> wasn't.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not surprisingly, I no longer use any Microsoft software when I 
>>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>>> good alternative.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
> 

Yeah, I kinda figured that from the rest of the sentence. Glad everything's 
working well now!!

"V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
news:eWhAt11BLHA.4388@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Yep, and by the way ment boss now happy I typo'ed the last post to say 
> not.
>
> He really did not want a new machine but now that he has a new laptop with 
> an LED screen he loves it.
> "SC Tom" <sc@tom.net> wrote in message 
> news:O76joo1BLHA.5476@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> Hey, gotta keep the boss happy!  :-)
>>
>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
>> news:enFM$T1BLHA.4308@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> Agreed, the computer is long gone and a new one is up and running. Boss 
>>> not happy and glad I insisted on a new computer.
>>>
>>>
>>> "SC Tom" <sc@tom.net> wrote in message 
>>> news:%23InZojcBLHA.1888@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>> Sounds like it may possibly be a shorted capacitor or two. That's 
>>>> fixable, if you want to go through the trouble of finding which one(s) 
>>>> it is. With the cost of boards being what they are, I personally 
>>>> probably wouldn't go through that kind of problem unless I wanted a 
>>>> project to work on :-)
>>>> -- 
>>>> SC Tom
>>>>
>>>> P.S. I try not to assume. It just seems to get me in trouble. . .
>>>>
>>>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
>>>> news:ecp4c9bBLHA.3880@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Thanks for making this a suggestion instead of assuming.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are correct about booting out of the operating system to test the 
>>>>> hardware. I did that with a live version of Linux. all seemed well so 
>>>>> I continued on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Reloaded the software just to find out I had issues during Windows 
>>>>> updates. Thought maybe got a corrupt update and that caused my issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway in the end on the last attempt the issue got worse and that is 
>>>>> when I decided it was a mainboard short.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems that you can boot it good several times then the next two or 
>>>>> three times it would not boot at all then finally it would boot again. 
>>>>> Then it would stop again.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just one of those issues where you thing you have it fixed just to 
>>>>> find out you were looking in the wrong place.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just wish it had been something obvious like a bad hard drive or cd 
>>>>> rom drive and or even memory, but it was not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh Well I guess getting burned by tricky hardware once in 10 years is 
>>>>> not bad.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have a good day.
>>>>>
>>>>> "SC Tom" <sc@tom.net> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:ODANt0KBLHA.4500@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> No offense, but many of the backup and/or imaging programs have the 
>>>>>> means to boot outside of the operating system, so a "days work 
>>>>>> involved trying to get the darn machine just back in running 
>>>>>> condition before I even tried to recover the backups" wouldn't have 
>>>>>> been necessary. When my HDD crashed, I was back up and running in 
>>>>>> less than 4 hours, and that included the trip to store to buy a new 
>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> SC Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:%23Xt$YaCBLHA.1892@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>> Not to sound negative here but for some reason on this case everyone 
>>>>>>> here is giving me grief about things
>>>>>>> they think I should have done and not done like backing up without 
>>>>>>> asking if I did so and Not having
>>>>>>> Antivirus for one of the tests. I explained Antivirus eariler.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Backing up is not the issue here. I probably backup more than 
>>>>>>> anyone. I have
>>>>>>> multipal  backups in several locations. One on site and two remote
>>>>>>> locations. I have never lost anything due to not having a backup.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Had this machine worked like it should the thing would have been up 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> running in no time. I also have many other computers at my becon 
>>>>>>> call so one
>>>>>>> machine down for a few hours or even days will not kill me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The days work involved trying to get the darn machine just back in 
>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>> condition before I even tried to recover the backups. We wanted 
>>>>>>> badly to
>>>>>>> keep the XP machine running just due to some old software we wanted 
>>>>>>> to run
>>>>>>> on it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This machine is one of those things that turned out to be very hard 
>>>>>>> to find.
>>>>>>> Like a car that don't work for you but works just fine when you take 
>>>>>>> it to
>>>>>>> the shop. Turns out there is an intermittent short in the mainboard 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> made you think it was the OS when it really was hardware related.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway the computer is now in the dumpster and a new one was 
>>>>>>> purchased.
>>>>>>> "Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:ujS8J4$ALHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>> "A days work getting the problem fixed..."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Too bad you haven't heard about backing up. You could have been 
>>>>>>>> back at
>>>>>>>> work in minutes.
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>> Leonard Grey
>>>>>>>> Errare humanum est
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lucky wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:uUYHms1ALHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have successfully removed the updates by doing a system restore 
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> the machine is once again working perfectly. This now tells me 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Antivirus program was not causing an issue but rather Windows 
>>>>>>>>>> Updates
>>>>>>>>>> are at fault.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I will be reinstalling the updates one at a time until I figure 
>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>> which one is the problem.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not a surprise to me.  I had my computer totally crashed after one 
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> Microsoft's "debugged and released to the public" updates.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A days work getting the problem fixed and the OS re-installed and 
>>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>>> properly and another day getting the software back up and running.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Microsoft's tech could have cared less. He was getting paid. But, 
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> wasn't.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not surprisingly, I no longer use any Microsoft software when I 
>>>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>>>> good alternative.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> 

On 2010-06-05 8:37 p.m., Leonard Grey wrote:

> The type of backup you are asking about is called an image, or a disk
> image. An image is an exact, sector-by-sector copy of a disk or disk
> partition, including the disk meta-data needed to boot. With a disk
> imaging application, you can backup your software (including Windows) so
> that you never have to re-install from scratch again.

Note that the backup software included in Windows 7 can create a system image. 
I don't think it's a sector-based image, but it is supposed to be capable of 
restoring the OS.  (I haven't actually tried the procedure out, mind you.)

   Harry.


>
> Disk imaging is a powerful tool, and a little difficult to grasp at
> first. But it's so worth the effort to learn how it works and how to use
> it.
>
> Once you learn how to use the software, you'll want to backup every day,
> at least. Then, the next time a bad driver update (for example) hoses
> your system, you merely chuckle as you pour yourself a soothing /Haut
> Medoc/ while your imaging application restores your software to exactly
> the way it was before.
>
> Disk imaging is complex, so there are only a handful of applications
> that do it really well. Some of the better known are (no order
> intended): Acronis True Image, Norton Ghost and Paragon Backup and
> Recovery. I personally use StorageCraft ShadowProtect, but most people
> don't want to spend that much ($90) for backup software.
> ---
> Leonard Grey
> Errare humanum est
>
> Lucky wrote:
>> My computer crashed. I had to do a complete reformat and clean
>> install(as recommended by the MS Tech).
>> The files were the easy part. They WERE backed up. Do you know of a
>> backup that covers the total operating system, all of Windows related
>> programs and all the programs that I had installed on the computer.
>> Please let me know if you do, because I would sure be interested.\
>>
>> Lucky
>>
>> "Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:ujS8J4$ALHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> "A days work getting the problem fixed..."
>>>
>>> Too bad you haven't heard about backing up. You could have been back
>>> at work in minutes.
>>> ---
>>> Leonard Grey
>>> Errare humanum est
>>>
>>> Lucky wrote:
>>>> "V" <noemai@notreal.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:uUYHms1ALHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have successfully removed the updates by doing a system restore
>>>>> and the machine is once again working perfectly. This now tells me
>>>>> the Antivirus program was not causing an issue but rather Windows
>>>>> Updates are at fault.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will be reinstalling the updates one at a time until I figure out
>>>>> which one is the problem.
>>>>
>>>> Not a surprise to me. I had my computer totally crashed after one of
>>>> Microsoft's "debugged and released to the public" updates.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A days work getting the problem fixed and the OS re-installed and
>>>> working properly and another day getting the software back up and
>>>> running.
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft's tech could have cared less. He was getting paid. But, I
>>>> wasn't.
>>>>
>>>> Not surprisingly, I no longer use any Microsoft software when I have
>>>> a good alternative.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>


-- 
Harry Johnston
http://harryjohnston.wordpress.com