Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: Intel

On the Windows version of Word (same year)  I can hover over the examples of layouts on the toolbar and the doc changes as I do it. <br><br>In the Mac version I have to click and select it and if it does not fit I have to undo and select a new one. <br><br>Little things like this preview make me wonder what else I am missing

Mac Office 2008 and Windows Office 2007 are different products, made by
different groups in different locations.

They're not much related.  There's a heap of features they have that we
haven't, and a few features we have that they haven't.

The next version of Mac Office will be closer to the next version of Windows
Office (according to the Microsoft announcements so far).

But it's a bit pointless trying to come up with a list of them: if you
noticed the lack of "Live Preview" (which annoys the hell out of me in Word
2007) I am guessing that you won't be too concerned by the ones you don't
have :-)

Cheers


On 20/01/10 10:35 AM, in article 59bb1424.-1@webcrossing.JaKIaxP2ac0,
"cocobop@officeformac.com" <cocobop@officeformac.com> wrote:

> Version: 2008 Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) Processor: Intel On
> the Windows version of Word (same year)  I can hover over the examples of
> layouts on the toolbar and the doc changes as I do it.
> 
> In the Mac version I have to click and select it and if it does not fit I have
> to undo and select a new one.
> 
> Little things like this preview make me wonder what else I am missing

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

 -- 

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:john@mcghie.name

Thanks

Hello there, John,

On 2010.01.20 19:07, in article C77D210D.46F0%john@mcghie.name, "John
McGhie" <john@mcghie.name> wrote:

> They're not much related.  There's a heap of features they have that we
> haven't, and a few features we have that they haven't.
> 
> The next version of Mac Office will be closer to the next version of Windows
> Office (according to the Microsoft announcements so far).
> 
> But it's a bit pointless trying to come up with a list of them: if you
> noticed the lack of "Live Preview" (which annoys the hell out of me in Word
> 2007) I am guessing that you won't be too concerned by the ones you don't
> have :-)

Speaking of which... I recently started using the Word 2008 Publication
Layout feature (on a whim), and was actually surprised at how they've
designed it along the lines of Publisher or similar programs (although we're
still in Word).

Have you or anyone else used Publication Layout much, and what are your
thoughts? Any success stories or issues?

Jeff Chapman

Hi Jeff:

To me, it's a disaster area that creates seriously non-standard documents
without ever explaining how they're put together :-)

In the professional/office workspace, you would have a serious "chat" with
anyone who used the feature, because nobody else has much of a chance of
being able to edit/maintain it.

So "no" I have never even tried to use it.  Then again: my work and
workflows are just not the kind of thing that desktop publishing is intended
to succeed with.  At the office, we just made a decision to flow one into
InDesign because it's just too hairy and too critical to leave it in Word.
But we're up at the Kenworth Truck end of document production :-)

What I *would* like to see is Mac Word able to read/write/produce "real"
Microsoft Publisher documents, since that application is not available on
the Mac.

Cheers

On 21/01/10 6:46 PM, in article C77E3559.2430%japchap@hotmail.com, "Jeff
Chapman" <japchap@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hello there, John,
> 
> On 2010.01.20 19:07, in article C77D210D.46F0%john@mcghie.name, "John
> McGhie" <john@mcghie.name> wrote:
> 
>> They're not much related.  There's a heap of features they have that we
>> haven't, and a few features we have that they haven't.
>> 
>> The next version of Mac Office will be closer to the next version of Windows
>> Office (according to the Microsoft announcements so far).
>> 
>> But it's a bit pointless trying to come up with a list of them: if you
>> noticed the lack of "Live Preview" (which annoys the hell out of me in Word
>> 2007) I am guessing that you won't be too concerned by the ones you don't
>> have :-)
> 
> Speaking of which... I recently started using the Word 2008 Publication
> Layout feature (on a whim), and was actually surprised at how they've
> designed it along the lines of Publisher or similar programs (although we're
> still in Word).
> 
> Have you or anyone else used Publication Layout much, and what are your
> thoughts? Any success stories or issues?
> 
> Jeff Chapman
> 

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

 -- 

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:john@mcghie.name

Hi John,

On 2010.01.21 17:14, in article C77E57F8.475F%john@mcghie.name, "John
McGhie" <john@mcghie.name> wrote:

> So "no" I have never even tried to use it.  Then again: my work and
> workflows are just not the kind of thing that desktop publishing is intended
> to succeed with. 

Hmm, I see. I guess I was thinking more along the
lines of whether or not Publishing Layout would be
a functional option for page-based layouts (which
Word has typically not be strong with) rather than
style-based structured documents (which Word can handle
with a fair degree of success and a generous dollop of time
spent futzing around).

Since I purchased Word 2008 back in early 2008, I hadn't been
interested in this feature, as it seemed a bit gimmicky
to me, perhaps a dumbed-down desktop publishing option
for people who want a drag-and-drop, slot-in content kind
of document creation option.

However, I decided to play around with it a bit out of
curiosity recently, and was interested to see that the
UI layout changes considerably (even a loupe-type zoom
feature and a hand icon to pan the page view is
available). It further seems that this is not just a
modal view of looking at the same file, but might be a
fundamentally different way of creating the document.
It seems that the text box is king in Publishing Layout
mode, rather than simply typing text onto the page as
is typically done in Word. You even get the smart guides
that pop up when you try to align objects.

Well, maybe Publishing Layout is more trouble than it's
worth... but it actually seems to be one of the
more underrated features of Word. I would second your
opinions on how good it would be to be able to read in
MS Publisher data, though.

Jeff

Hello again, John,

On 2010.01.21 17:14, in article C77E57F8.475F%john@mcghie.name, "John
McGhie" <john@mcghie.name> wrote:

> To me, it's a disaster area that creates seriously non-standard documents
> without ever explaining how they're put together :-)

One more thing I found out about Publishing Layout view:
you can actually create static guides on the pages as well
by dragging and dropping from the ruler, and snap objects to
the guides. Not bad.

There's even a master page, kind of a background template
apparently. Further, we can even show the page thumbnails (and
zoom or reduce their size) in the left sidebar.
Kinda like a hybrid PowerPoint/Word/Publisher feature.
Funny how people have overlooked this feature.

Jeff

There's a small prize available if you can figure out what the "Master Page"
actually IS and where it is stored in the document :-)

Yes, I DO know, but I had to ask CyberTaz...

Cheers


On 21/01/10 7:58 PM, in article C77E4630.244E%japchap@hotmail.com, "Jeff
Chapman" <japchap@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hello again, John,
> 
> On 2010.01.21 17:14, in article C77E57F8.475F%john@mcghie.name, "John
> McGhie" <john@mcghie.name> wrote:
> 
>> To me, it's a disaster area that creates seriously non-standard documents
>> without ever explaining how they're put together :-)
> 
> One more thing I found out about Publishing Layout view:
> you can actually create static guides on the pages as well
> by dragging and dropping from the ruler, and snap objects to
> the guides. Not bad.
> 
> There's even a master page, kind of a background template
> apparently. Further, we can even show the page thumbnails (and
> zoom or reduce their size) in the left sidebar.
> Kinda like a hybrid PowerPoint/Word/Publisher feature.
> Funny how people have overlooked this feature.
> 
> Jeff
> 

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

 -- 

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:john@mcghie.name

Hi John,

On 2010.01.21 7:26 PM, in article C77E76F4.477B%john@mcghie.name, "John
McGhie" <john@mcghie.name> wrote:

> There's a small prize available if you can figure out what the "Master Page"
> actually IS and where it is stored in the document :-)
> 
> Yes, I DO know, but I had to ask CyberTaz...

Hmmm... 
The master page stuff that was created in Publishing Layout view appears in
the background when you switch to Print Layout view, but this is regardless
of whether the "Background colors and images in Print Layout View" check box
in Word Preferences is checked or not.

I bet it's the header!
(Did some digging around in the .xml of a .docx file I made, and
I found a "header1.xml" file. Since I hadn't added my own header to
the file, I reasoned that this was added by the Publishing Layout feature
in Word.)

The weird thing is that I thought headers didn't (or rather, couldn't be
made to) bleed onto the lower page content.
Or is that assumption incorrect?

Jeff

Hi again, John,

So, assuming that I got the answer correct,
what's the prize? A mug cup? A Rolodex? Potted plants?
:D

On 2010.01.21 7:26 PM, in article C77E76F4.477B%john@mcghie.name, "John
McGhie" <john@mcghie.name> wrote:

> There's a small prize available if you can figure out what the "Master Page"
> actually IS and where it is stored in the document :-)
> 
> Yes, I DO know, but I had to ask CyberTaz...

Hi Jeff:

Yes, your answer is "partly" correct :-)

The prize is that you now get to answer ALL the Publishing Layout View
questions in here, since you are now an acknowledged expert :-)

The complete answer is:  "Each section of the document uses a layout stored
in its header.  Whenever you add a new master page, you actually add a new
section to the document.  The master page is its header."

Yes, content anchored in the header or footer can appear anywhere in
relation to the page.  I say "in relation to" because the content is not
actually ON the page: it is not even in the Main Text Story of the document.

A document has a selection of Stories:  Main Text, Header First, Header
Right, Header Left, and Footer First, Footer Right, and Footer Left, and
Shapes are among the common ones.

The Header and Footer stories are children of the section break controlling
that section of the document.  The others are children of the document
master section break (the one at the bottom).

Because other versions of Word do not expect multiple, single,
non-replicating headers containing content positioned outside the header or
footer region, such documents can be very fragile/unreliable in other
versions of Word.

Add some auto-numbering and tracked changes and a publishing layout document
is unlikely to survive a single editing cycle :-)

Cheers


On 22/01/10 11:00 AM, in article C77F199C.CD11%japchap@hotmail.com, "Jeff
Chapman" <japchap@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi again, John,
> 
> So, assuming that I got the answer correct,
> what's the prize? A mug cup? A Rolodex? Potted plants?
> :D
> 
> On 2010.01.21 7:26 PM, in article C77E76F4.477B%john@mcghie.name, "John
> McGhie" <john@mcghie.name> wrote:
> 
>> There's a small prize available if you can figure out what the "Master Page"
>> actually IS and where it is stored in the document :-)
>> 
>> Yes, I DO know, but I had to ask CyberTaz...
> 

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

 -- 

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:john@mcghie.name

Hi John,

On 2010.01.22 17:07, in article C77FA7E5.47D9%john@mcghie.name, "John
McGhie" <john@mcghie.name> wrote:

> The prize is that you now get to answer ALL the Publishing Layout View
> questions in here, since you are now an acknowledged expert :-)

Perhaps that would be the Booby Prize, indeed. :-p
How 'bout a Publishing Layout mug cup?

> The complete answer is:  "Each section of the document uses a layout stored
> in its header.  Whenever you add a new master page, you actually add a new
> section to the document.  The master page is its header."

Sounds like YOU are the acknowledged Publishing Layout expert here ;)

> Yes, content anchored in the header or footer can appear anywhere in
> relation to the page.  I say "in relation to" because the content is not
> actually ON the page: it is not even in the Main Text Story of the document.

Ah, indeed - headers are common to the entire document.
I just tried placing an incredibly oversized autoshape in a header
in Print Layout View, and sure enough - the object bled over the
header area into the content, just as an object on the Master page
in Print Layout view would.

Also, after this, I switched to Publishing Layout View,
and there it was - my object that was placed in the
header was right there on the Master page.
Interesting.

> A document has a selection of Stories:  Main Text, Header First, Header
> Right, Header Left, and Footer First, Footer Right, and Footer Left, and
> Shapes are among the common ones.
> 
> The Header and Footer stories are children of the section break controlling
> that section of the document.  The others are children of the document
> master section break (the one at the bottom).

What I noticed was that text typed in what you term as
the "Main Text Story" actually _wraps_ around objects
placed in the Header Story. I would have expected for
the text in the Main Text Story to simply ignore the
Header Story, but it didn't. What that tells me is that the
Main Text Story is a child of the Header Story, not the reverse.
Heh.

Perhaps I should put my REAL content into the header,
to gain full control over the layout of my document! :D

> Because other versions of Word do not expect multiple, single,
> non-replicating headers containing content positioned outside the header or
> footer region, such documents can be very fragile/unreliable in other
> versions of Word.
> Add some auto-numbering and tracked changes and a publishing layout document
> is unlikely to survive a single editing cycle :-)

Hm. I did try saving a simple .docx created in Publishing Layout
to .doc format and then opened it in Word 2003. It seemed all
right. Would be interesting to experiment with this a bit more.
 
Jeff

Hi Jeff;


On 1/22/10 7:32 AM, in article C77FC9DA.24C5%japchap@hotmail.com, "Jeff
Chapman" <japchap@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi John,
> 
> On 2010.01.22 17:07, in article C77FA7E5.47D9%john@mcghie.name, "John
> McGhie" <john@mcghie.name> wrote:
> 
>> The prize is that you now get to answer ALL the Publishing Layout View
>> questions in here, since you are now an acknowledged expert :-)
> 
> Perhaps that would be the Booby Prize, indeed. :-p
> How 'bout a Publishing Layout mug cup?
> 
>> The complete answer is:  "Each section of the document uses a layout stored
>> in its header.  Whenever you add a new master page, you actually add a new
>> section to the document.  The master page is its header."
> 
> Sounds like YOU are the acknowledged Publishing Layout expert here ;)
> 
>> Yes, content anchored in the header or footer can appear anywhere in
>> relation to the page.  I say "in relation to" because the content is not
>> actually ON the page: it is not even in the Main Text Story of the document.
> 
> Ah, indeed - headers are common to the entire document.
> I just tried placing an incredibly oversized autoshape in a header
> in Print Layout View, and sure enough - the object bled over the
> header area into the content, just as an object on the Master page
> in Print Layout view would.
> 
> Also, after this, I switched to Publishing Layout View,
> and there it was - my object that was placed in the
> header was right there on the Master page.
> Interesting.
> 
>> A document has a selection of Stories:  Main Text, Header First, Header
>> Right, Header Left, and Footer First, Footer Right, and Footer Left, and
>> Shapes are among the common ones.
>> 
>> The Header and Footer stories are children of the section break controlling
>> that section of the document.  The others are children of the document
>> master section break (the one at the bottom).
> 
> What I noticed was that text typed in what you term as
> the "Main Text Story" actually _wraps_ around objects
> placed in the Header Story. I would have expected for
> the text in the Main Text Story to simply ignore the
> Header Story, but it didn't. What that tells me is that the
> Main Text Story is a child of the Header Story, not the reverse.
> Heh.
> 
> Perhaps I should put my REAL content into the header,
> to gain full control over the layout of my document! :D
> 
>> Because other versions of Word do not expect multiple, single,
>> non-replicating headers containing content positioned outside the header or
>> footer region, such documents can be very fragile/unreliable in other
>> versions of Word.
>> Add some auto-numbering and tracked changes and a publishing layout document
>> is unlikely to survive a single editing cycle :-)
> 
> Hm. I did try saving a simple .docx created in Publishing Layout
> to .doc format and then opened it in Word 2003. It seemed all
> right. Would be interesting to experiment with this a bit more.
>  
> Jeff
> 
I've been following your banter with John although I've kept silent until
now... but I couldn't resist chiming in :-)

Your observations & insights point to one basic irrefutable fact -- a Word
document is a Word document. Pub Layout View is nothing more than a veneer
which serves to give users the capacity to do [most of] what they think they
want to do without having any understanding of what they're doing or how the
construction actually takes place.

Difficulty controlling the position of floating objects in a Word document
has been a perennial issue since the introduction of the ability to insert
them was first introduced. Since then MS has bent itself into every
conceivable contortion to give users the impression that they do have that
control. Pub view IMHO is but another implementation of that deception. And
although they may deceive themselves as fully as they deceive their users,
they can't deceive the program.

As to the Main Story wrapping around the Master Page object -- Have you
noticed that an object inserted onto the Master is always inserted with Text
Wrapping applied? There is no available option for In Line.

Have fun!

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones 
[MVP] Office:Mac