polite people say HELO first

Recently, I have started receiving 5.0.0 NDRs on replies sent out through our 
Exchange 2000 server with the following error:

#5.0.0 smtp;503 5.0.0 Polite people say HELO first

The only change was an SPF entry made to our DNS records at the suggestion 
of our ISP. Apparently, they hadn't fully researched the SPF entry, or 
applied it incorrectly, and we started getting these bounces on replies and 
forwards, to domains which we had always been able to reply to before. I 
subsequently had them delete these entries, yet the NDRs remain, and are 
starting to show up for new messages as well. I believe this is probably a 
DNS issue rather than an Exchange issue, but I wanted to run it past the 
experts here first.  Thanks for any guidance you can offer.
0
61shevy (7)
11/14/2005 5:30:07 PM
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On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 09:30:07 -0800, "61shevy"
<61shevy@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Recently, I have started receiving 5.0.0 NDRs on replies sent out through our 
>Exchange 2000 server with the following error:
>
>#5.0.0 smtp;503 5.0.0 Polite people say HELO first
>
>The only change was an SPF entry made to our DNS records at the suggestion 
>of our ISP. Apparently, they hadn't fully researched the SPF entry, or 
>applied it incorrectly, and we started getting these bounces on replies and 
>forwards, to domains which we had always been able to reply to before. I 
>subsequently had them delete these entries, yet the NDRs remain, and are 
>starting to show up for new messages as well. I believe this is probably a 
>DNS issue rather than an Exchange issue, but I wanted to run it past the 
>experts here first.  Thanks for any guidance you can offer.


Check your domain at www.dnsreport.com
Does your mail server have a PTR? 
0
adavid (8731)
11/14/2005 5:54:43 PM
Did you check SMTP protocol logs on your server?
-- 
Bharat Suneja
MCSE, MCT
www.zenprise.com
blog: www.suneja.com/blog
-----------------------------------------


"61shevy" <61shevy@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:6FE4298D-08B9-49F6-9A18-02FBBAB7185F@microsoft.com...
> Recently, I have started receiving 5.0.0 NDRs on replies sent out through 
> our
> Exchange 2000 server with the following error:
>
> #5.0.0 smtp;503 5.0.0 Polite people say HELO first
>
> The only change was an SPF entry made to our DNS records at the suggestion
> of our ISP. Apparently, they hadn't fully researched the SPF entry, or
> applied it incorrectly, and we started getting these bounces on replies 
> and
> forwards, to domains which we had always been able to reply to before. I
> subsequently had them delete these entries, yet the NDRs remain, and are
> starting to show up for new messages as well. I believe this is probably a
> DNS issue rather than an Exchange issue, but I wanted to run it past the
> experts here first.  Thanks for any guidance you can offer. 


0
bharatsuneja1 (3146)
11/14/2005 7:03:59 PM
this is what shows in the log for one of the bounces:

10:08:44 156.33.203.10 - - 0
10:08:44 156.33.203.10 EHLO - 0
10:08:44 156.33.203.10 - - 0
10:08:44 156.33.203.10 MAIL - 0
10:08:44 156.33.203.10 - - 0
10:08:44 156.33.203.10 QUIT - 0
10:08:44 156.33.203.10 - - 0

"Bharat Suneja" wrote:

> Did you check SMTP protocol logs on your server?
> -- 
> Bharat Suneja
> MCSE, MCT
> www.zenprise.com
> blog: www.suneja.com/blog
> -----------------------------------------
> 
> 
> "61shevy" <61shevy@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
> news:6FE4298D-08B9-49F6-9A18-02FBBAB7185F@microsoft.com...
> > Recently, I have started receiving 5.0.0 NDRs on replies sent out through 
> > our
> > Exchange 2000 server with the following error:
> >
> > #5.0.0 smtp;503 5.0.0 Polite people say HELO first
> >
> > The only change was an SPF entry made to our DNS records at the suggestion
> > of our ISP. Apparently, they hadn't fully researched the SPF entry, or
> > applied it incorrectly, and we started getting these bounces on replies 
> > and
> > forwards, to domains which we had always been able to reply to before. I
> > subsequently had them delete these entries, yet the NDRs remain, and are
> > starting to show up for new messages as well. I believe this is probably a
> > DNS issue rather than an Exchange issue, but I wanted to run it past the
> > experts here first.  Thanks for any guidance you can offer. 
> 
> 
> 
0
61shevy (7)
11/14/2005 7:52:19 PM
error from the event viewer is:
Event Type:	Warning
Event Source:	smtpsvc
Event Category:	None
Event ID:	4001
Date:		11/14/2005
Time:		4:22:19 PM
User:		N/A
Computer:	MAILSERVER
Description:
Message delivery to the remote domain 'elmstreetdev.com' failed.  The error 
message is 'An SMTP protocol error occurred.
'. The SMTP verb which caused the error is 'MAIL'.  The response from the 
remote server is '503 Bad command sequence
'. 
Data:
0000: d7 02 04 c0               ×..À    


thanks for any help you can give

"Bharat Suneja" wrote:

> Did you check SMTP protocol logs on your server?
> -- 
> Bharat Suneja
> MCSE, MCT
> www.zenprise.com
> blog: www.suneja.com/blog
> -----------------------------------------
> 
> 
> "61shevy" <61shevy@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
> news:6FE4298D-08B9-49F6-9A18-02FBBAB7185F@microsoft.com...
> > Recently, I have started receiving 5.0.0 NDRs on replies sent out through 
> > our
> > Exchange 2000 server with the following error:
> >
> > #5.0.0 smtp;503 5.0.0 Polite people say HELO first
> >
> > The only change was an SPF entry made to our DNS records at the suggestion
> > of our ISP. Apparently, they hadn't fully researched the SPF entry, or
> > applied it incorrectly, and we started getting these bounces on replies 
> > and
> > forwards, to domains which we had always been able to reply to before. I
> > subsequently had them delete these entries, yet the NDRs remain, and are
> > starting to show up for new messages as well. I believe this is probably a
> > DNS issue rather than an Exchange issue, but I wanted to run it past the
> > experts here first.  Thanks for any guidance you can offer. 
> 
> 
> 
0
61shevy (7)
11/14/2005 9:36:09 PM
"61shevy" <61shevy@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Recently, I have started receiving 5.0.0 NDRs on replies sent out through our 
>Exchange 2000 server with the following error:
>
>#5.0.0 smtp;503 5.0.0 Polite people say HELO first
>
>The only change was an SPF entry made to our DNS records at the suggestion 
>of our ISP. 

That should have no effect on your sending messages.

>Apparently, they hadn't fully researched the SPF entry, or 
>applied it incorrectly, and we started getting these bounces on replies and 
>forwards, to domains which we had always been able to reply to before. 

The SPF information should have no effect on what the receiving server
sees in the way of SMTP commands. If every server replies that it
didn't see a HELO or EHLO command from your server then SPF isn't the
culprit.

>I 
>subsequently had them delete these entries, yet the NDRs remain, and are 
>starting to show up for new messages as well. I believe this is probably a 
>DNS issue rather than an Exchange issue, but I wanted to run it past the 
>experts here first.  Thanks for any guidance you can offer.

I doubt it's an Exchange problem, but it an certainly b a problem
introduced by a SMTP proxy between your server and the target server.

A quick look at the SMTP protocol log should show you if you're
sending the HELO.

-- 
Rich Matheisen
MCSE+I, Exchange MVP
MS Exchange FAQ at http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm
Don't send mail to this address mailto:h.pott@getronics.com
Or to these, either: mailto:h.pott@pinkroccade.com mailto:melvin.mcphucknuckle@getronics.com mailto:melvin.mcphucknuckle@pinkroccade.com
0
richnews (7316)
11/14/2005 10:00:50 PM
"61shevy" <61shevy@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>this is what shows in the log for one of the bounces:
>
>10:08:44 156.33.203.10 - - 0
>10:08:44 156.33.203.10 EHLO - 0
>10:08:44 156.33.203.10 - - 0
>10:08:44 156.33.203.10 MAIL - 0
>10:08:44 156.33.203.10 - - 0
>10:08:44 156.33.203.10 QUIT - 0
>10:08:44 156.33.203.10 - - 0

Add more fields to the information collected by the SMTP protocol
logs. That way you'll see the data and status for each command.

I'd say your problem is at the PIX firewall at the IP address above
(but that's probably not here the problem lies since that's
"senmail3.senate.gov"), or that your server isn't sending its FQDN or
domain in the HELO/EHLO, or that you've got a STP proxy that's
swallowing the HELO/EHLO. :)

-- 
Rich Matheisen
MCSE+I, Exchange MVP
MS Exchange FAQ at http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm
Don't send mail to this address mailto:h.pott@getronics.com
Or to these, either: mailto:h.pott@pinkroccade.com mailto:melvin.mcphucknuckle@getronics.com mailto:melvin.mcphucknuckle@pinkroccade.com
0
richnews (7316)
11/14/2005 10:09:06 PM
Thank you for your response
As far as I know, nothing has changed, besides the DNS record entry, and the 
problem started almost immediately afterwards. It doesn't affect all email, 
just some, but it is domain specific.

"Rich Matheisen [MVP]" wrote:

> "61shevy" <61shevy@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> 
> >Recently, I have started receiving 5.0.0 NDRs on replies sent out through our 
> >Exchange 2000 server with the following error:
> >
> >#5.0.0 smtp;503 5.0.0 Polite people say HELO first
> >
> >The only change was an SPF entry made to our DNS records at the suggestion 
> >of our ISP. 
> 
> That should have no effect on your sending messages.
> 
> >Apparently, they hadn't fully researched the SPF entry, or 
> >applied it incorrectly, and we started getting these bounces on replies and 
> >forwards, to domains which we had always been able to reply to before. 
> 
> The SPF information should have no effect on what the receiving server
> sees in the way of SMTP commands. If every server replies that it
> didn't see a HELO or EHLO command from your server then SPF isn't the
> culprit.
> 
> >I 
> >subsequently had them delete these entries, yet the NDRs remain, and are 
> >starting to show up for new messages as well. I believe this is probably a 
> >DNS issue rather than an Exchange issue, but I wanted to run it past the 
> >experts here first.  Thanks for any guidance you can offer.
> 
> I doubt it's an Exchange problem, but it an certainly b a problem
> introduced by a SMTP proxy between your server and the target server.
> 
> A quick look at the SMTP protocol log should show you if you're
> sending the HELO.
> 
> -- 
> Rich Matheisen
> MCSE+I, Exchange MVP
> MS Exchange FAQ at http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm
> Don't send mail to this address mailto:h.pott@getronics.com
> Or to these, either: mailto:h.pott@pinkroccade.com mailto:melvin.mcphucknuckle@getronics.com mailto:melvin.mcphucknuckle@pinkroccade.com
> 
0
61shevy (7)
11/14/2005 10:15:02 PM
"61shevy" <61shevy@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Thank you for your response
>As far as I know, nothing has changed, besides the DNS record entry, and the 
>problem started almost immediately afterwards. It doesn't affect all email, 
>just some, but it is domain specific.

There's always te possibility that those domains run badly configured
MTA's. Still, the SMTP protocol log would verify this.

-- 
Rich Matheisen
MCSE+I, Exchange MVP
MS Exchange FAQ at http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm
Don't send mail to this address mailto:h.pott@getronics.com
Or to these, either: mailto:h.pott@pinkroccade.com mailto:melvin.mcphucknuckle@getronics.com mailto:melvin.mcphucknuckle@pinkroccade.com
0
richnews (7316)
11/15/2005 2:05:10 AM
Rich,

Again, thanks for your help. A couple of quick questions:
1) To turn up the SMTP logging, is that done in the SMTP server properties 
in the System Manager? What format should I use to collect the most 
information?

2) Where do I check what FQDN or domain name is being is being sent out? I 
want to make sure it's matching what shows up in the DNS information.

Thank you

"Rich Matheisen [MVP]" wrote:

> "61shevy" <61shevy@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> 
> >Thank you for your response
> >As far as I know, nothing has changed, besides the DNS record entry, and the 
> >problem started almost immediately afterwards. It doesn't affect all email, 
> >just some, but it is domain specific.
> 
> There's always te possibility that those domains run badly configured
> MTA's. Still, the SMTP protocol log would verify this.
> 
> -- 
> Rich Matheisen
> MCSE+I, Exchange MVP
> MS Exchange FAQ at http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm
> Don't send mail to this address mailto:h.pott@getronics.com
> Or to these, either: mailto:h.pott@pinkroccade.com mailto:melvin.mcphucknuckle@getronics.com mailto:melvin.mcphucknuckle@pinkroccade.com
> 
0
61shevy (7)
11/15/2005 11:45:07 AM
"61shevy" <61shevy@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>1) To turn up the SMTP logging, is that done in the SMTP server properties 
>in the System Manager? What format should I use to collect the most 
>information?

Yes, use the ESM to do this.

Use the default (W3C) log file format, but on the "Properties... ->
Advanced" tab, check ALL the boxes (it's always better to have more
than what you think you might need).

>2) Where do I check what FQDN or domain name is being is being sent out? 

In the SMTP protocol log, of course!

Changing it, if necssary, can be done from the "Advanced..." button on
the "Delivery" tab of the SMTP virtual server property page.

-- 
Rich Matheisen
MCSE+I, Exchange MVP
MS Exchange FAQ at http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm
Don't send mail to this address mailto:h.pott@getronics.com
Or to these, either: mailto:h.pott@pinkroccade.com mailto:melvin.mcphucknuckle@getronics.com mailto:melvin.mcphucknuckle@pinkroccade.com
0
richnews (7316)
11/15/2005 3:59:26 PM
Reply:

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