Common Exchange Deployment on NAS?

Hi,
What is the most common way to deploy a large exchange installation...
is it common to use NAS?

As I understand, Exchange stores all its data in a few very large .edb
files... if so, does exchange transfer these large files back and forth
over the network in a NAS?

Thanks
David

0
3/16/2006 12:34:29 AM
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NAS devices that make the volumes appear as local storage will work and are 
used with Exchange - NetApp filers being one of them. NetApp uses a software 
util called "SnapDrive" to make this possible.
-- 
Bharat Suneja
MCSE, MCT
www.zenprise.com
blog: www.suneja.com/blog
-----------------------------------------


<david_moonsamy@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1142469269.309623.239050@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
> What is the most common way to deploy a large exchange installation...
> is it common to use NAS?
>
> As I understand, Exchange stores all its data in a few very large .edb
> files... if so, does exchange transfer these large files back and forth
> over the network in a NAS?
>
> Thanks
> David
> 


0
bharatsuneja1 (3146)
3/16/2006 12:41:06 AM
Thanks... is this something supported in CIFS or NFS?  That is, the
ability to make volumes visible... is that a CIFS feature?

Thanks
David

0
3/16/2006 1:18:39 AM
Isnt SnapDrive an iSCSI driver?  As in, doesent it just mean that
exchange is now technically using a SAN and not a NAS? My question was
more along the lines of configuring exhcnage with a network mounted
share...  like a true NAS... using CIFS or NFS...

0
3/16/2006 1:25:26 AM
For block mode, NetApp presents LUNs to hosts via FCP or iSCSI.  For NAS, 
Netapp presents LUNs via file mode protocols like CIFS or NFS.  On Exchange, 
you would use a block mode based connection, iSCSI or Fibre Channel 
Protocol.


"Bharat Suneja" <bharatsuneja@no.spam.org> wrote in message 
news:OP0uSJJSGHA.5924@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> NAS devices that make the volumes appear as local storage will work and 
> are used with Exchange - NetApp filers being one of them. NetApp uses a 
> software util called "SnapDrive" to make this possible.
> -- 
> Bharat Suneja
> MCSE, MCT
> www.zenprise.com
> blog: www.suneja.com/blog
> -----------------------------------------
>
>
> <david_moonsamy@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
> news:1142469269.309623.239050@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Hi,
>> What is the most common way to deploy a large exchange installation...
>> is it common to use NAS?
>>
>> As I understand, Exchange stores all its data in a few very large .edb
>> files... if so, does exchange transfer these large files back and forth
>> over the network in a NAS?
>>
>> Thanks
>> David
>>
>
> 


0
fullbrij1 (373)
3/16/2006 2:08:41 AM
.... this was done earlier using NetApp VLD "protocol", iirc. iSCSI made it 
more efficient.

John can, of course, talk about this ad nauseam. :)
-- 
Bharat Suneja
MCSE, MCT
www.zenprise.com
blog: www.suneja.com/blog
-----------------------------------------


"John Fullbright" <fullbrij@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:uNBeN6JSGHA.5656@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> For block mode, NetApp presents LUNs to hosts via FCP or iSCSI.  For NAS, 
> Netapp presents LUNs via file mode protocols like CIFS or NFS.  On 
> Exchange, you would use a block mode based connection, iSCSI or Fibre 
> Channel Protocol.
>
>
> "Bharat Suneja" <bharatsuneja@no.spam.org> wrote in message 
> news:OP0uSJJSGHA.5924@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> NAS devices that make the volumes appear as local storage will work and 
>> are used with Exchange - NetApp filers being one of them. NetApp uses a 
>> software util called "SnapDrive" to make this possible.
>> -- 
>> Bharat Suneja
>> MCSE, MCT
>> www.zenprise.com
>> blog: www.suneja.com/blog
>> -----------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> <david_moonsamy@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
>> news:1142469269.309623.239050@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> Hi,
>>> What is the most common way to deploy a large exchange installation...
>>> is it common to use NAS?
>>>
>>> As I understand, Exchange stores all its data in a few very large .edb
>>> files... if so, does exchange transfer these large files back and forth
>>> over the network in a NAS?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> David
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
bharatsuneja1 (3146)
3/16/2006 2:48:09 AM
Thanks JOhn... does this mean that Exchange does not use CIFS to talk
to NetApp and also Exchange can never use CIFS with any NAS head/filer?

Thanks
David

0
3/16/2006 3:22:29 AM
A few years back, before iSCSI, there was VLD.  iSCSI is the option to use 
if you want to go over an IP network.  Exchange expects a block mode device 
formatted with NTFS.  It could be DAS or SAN.  The SAN could be FCP or 
iSCSI.  You really don't want to run Exchange over CIFS.

DAS, or Direct Attached Storage, relies on a dedicated connection via a
SCSI, IDE, or other local bus.  The disk is accessed via block mode.

SAN, or Storage Area Network, technologies extend a SCSI bus by
encapsulating the SCSI commands in FC frames or iSCSI frames.  If you choose
FC as the connection media, you have to provide an FC infrastructure - HBAs,
fibre, switches.  If you connect via iSCSI, you have to provide a
preferrably seperate IP infrastructure - initiator (hardware or software+
NIC), cabling, switches.  SAN uses the underlying SCSI protocol to attach to
disk via block mode.

NAS, or Network Attached Storage, relies on CIFS or NFS or other protocols
to provide file mode access to files that reside on disk on a remote server.
NAS typically leverages TCP/IP, but can use other network protocols such as
Novell IPX/SPX.  The big difference between SAN and NAS is block mode vs.
file mode access.



<david_moonsamy@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1142479349.370770.11650@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks JOhn... does this mean that Exchange does not use CIFS to talk
> to NetApp and also Exchange can never use CIFS with any NAS head/filer?
>
> Thanks
> David
> 


0
fullbrij1 (373)
3/16/2006 3:49:57 AM
SnapDrive is an MMC snapin that is the out of band provisioning component 
for NetApp filers.  It communicates via a limited CIFS subset to pass lun 
provisioning api calls to the filer, and allows connecting to LUNs for which 
the host has permissions to connect to.  In this respect, it's very similar 
the the out of band management components of other vendors; Navisphere comes 
to mind.  Snapdrive aslo integrates the Netapp hardware VSS provider with 
the microsoft VSS.  In addition, if MPIO is enabled, it allows the 
management of paths.

The host iSCSI driver is either the MS software initiator 1.6 or 2.0, or a 
hardware initiator and the driver provided by the hardware vendor.  The 
qlogic 4010 comes to mind.  If you have an MPIO license, you're using 
Microsoft MPIO.

You wouldn't want to connect to Exchange over a share.


<david_moonsamy@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1142472326.338495.288100@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> Isnt SnapDrive an iSCSI driver?  As in, doesent it just mean that
> exchange is now technically using a SAN and not a NAS? My question was
> more along the lines of configuring exhcnage with a network mounted
> share...  like a true NAS... using CIFS or NFS...
> 


0
fullbrij1 (373)
3/16/2006 4:02:49 AM
John Fullbright wrote:
> A few years back, before iSCSI, there was VLD.  iSCSI is the option to use
> if you want to go over an IP network.  Exchange expects a block mode device
> formatted with NTFS.  It could be DAS or SAN.  The SAN could be FCP or
> iSCSI.  You really don't want to run Exchange over CIFS.
>
> DAS, or Direct Attached Storage, relies on a dedicated connection via a
> SCSI, IDE, or other local bus.  The disk is accessed via block mode.
>
> SAN, or Storage Area Network, technologies extend a SCSI bus by
> encapsulating the SCSI commands in FC frames or iSCSI frames.  If you choose
> FC as the connection media, you have to provide an FC infrastructure - HBAs,
> fibre, switches.  If you connect via iSCSI, you have to provide a
> preferrably seperate IP infrastructure - initiator (hardware or software+
> NIC), cabling, switches.  SAN uses the underlying SCSI protocol to attach to
> disk via block mode.
>
> NAS, or Network Attached Storage, relies on CIFS or NFS or other protocols
> to provide file mode access to files that reside on disk on a remote server.
> NAS typically leverages TCP/IP, but can use other network protocols such as
> Novell IPX/SPX.  The big difference between SAN and NAS is block mode vs.
> file mode access.
>
>
>
> <david_moonsamy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1142479349.370770.11650@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > Thanks JOhn... does this mean that Exchange does not use CIFS to talk
> > to NetApp and also Exchange can never use CIFS with any NAS head/filer?
> >
> > Thanks
> > David
> >


Thanks Again John...  I am taking from your message that Exchange does
not support file mode access for its EDB database and therefore only
expects a block mode device and hence only can use SAN or DAS... is
that correct?

(Forgive me if I am restating the obvious...)

/D

0
3/16/2006 4:23:12 AM
Understood.  What I am actually trying to do is optimize away the
attachments of Exchange messages... so based on your description, I
take it that I can only do so by writing some sort of MAPI plugin that
runs ON the exchange server and communicates those seperately to the
NAS device which can handle attachements better... this way, Exchange
stores the (smaller) EDB database as is using block IO

/D

0
3/16/2006 4:25:44 AM
Look at Symantec Enterprise Vault.  It strips out messages/attachements 
based on a rule set and replaces them with a stub that points to the stored 
location in a "vault" than can be on CIFS.  It uses a SQL index to keep 
track of what's where.  Exchange/EV complementary workloads will be the 
subject of an upcoming Tech ONTAP article.  I think June.

John


<david_moonsamy@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1142483144.050245.259850@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> Understood.  What I am actually trying to do is optimize away the
> attachments of Exchange messages... so based on your description, I
> take it that I can only do so by writing some sort of MAPI plugin that
> runs ON the exchange server and communicates those seperately to the
> NAS device which can handle attachements better... this way, Exchange
> stores the (smaller) EDB database as is using block IO
>
> /D
> 


0
fullbrij1 (373)
3/16/2006 10:44:35 PM
Cool... This about answers my original questions...

What does Vault do with the messages it strips BTW?  (I went to
Symantecs website and the literature is more higherlevel than I was
looking for)

Thanks
David

0
3/17/2006 12:42:58 AM
It puts in a big volume or "Vault" that can be on a block mode disk or a 
share.  Shares work well because you can move stuff around in the 
background, ie.  move older vaults to SATA, etc.




<david_moonsamy@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1142556178.806420.104220@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Cool... This about answers my original questions...
>
> What does Vault do with the messages it strips BTW?  (I went to
> Symantecs website and the literature is more higherlevel than I was
> looking for)
>
> Thanks
> David
> 


0
fullbrij1 (373)
3/17/2006 2:26:12 AM
Also recommend looking at Mimosa Nearpoint... www.mimosasystems.com
-- 
Bharat Suneja
MCSE, MCT
www.zenprise.com
blog: www.suneja.com/blog
-----------------------------------------


<david_moonsamy@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1142556178.806420.104220@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Cool... This about answers my original questions...
>
> What does Vault do with the messages it strips BTW?  (I went to
> Symantecs website and the literature is more higherlevel than I was
> looking for)
>
> Thanks
> David
> 


0
bharatsuneja1 (3146)
3/17/2006 2:58:51 AM
You need to idenify the IOPS / mailbox requirements and # of users per 
server. I would recomend high end SAN storage for large Exchange 
installations. 

The JetStress tool from Microsoft will help with the lab tests for the design

"david_moonsamy@yahoo.com" wrote:

> Hi,
> What is the most common way to deploy a large exchange installation...
> is it common to use NAS?
> 
> As I understand, Exchange stores all its data in a few very large .edb
> files... if so, does exchange transfer these large files back and forth
> over the network in a NAS?
> 
> Thanks
> David
> 
> 
0
McGovern (3)
3/23/2006 10:31:02 PM
Reply:

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