Another simple formula??

a1= $2.73
b1=2
c1=6.5%
d1=$5.89

Very simply I want to take the unit price (a1) * Qty (b1) and add the sales 
tax (c1) and have the result in one cell  (d1).  I can do it with helper 
column but would rather not.  The answer should be $5.89.   (d1)


Tx

0
grunge (11)
12/7/2010 9:58:17 PM
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17 Replies
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wabbleknee,
Your D1 figure is wrong. It should be in the $5.81 or $5.82 range based on 
how you rounded the result.
Choose from the following formulas, and place one in Cell D1, drag and fill 
down the rest of the column:

=ROUND(SUM($A1*$B1,$A1*B1*$C1),2)

=ROUND(($A1*$B1)*(1+$C1),2)
Will give you $5.81

=ROUNDUP(SUM($A1*$B1,$A1*B1*$C1),2)

=ROUNDUP(($A1*$B1)*(1+$C1),2)
Will give you $5.82

-- 
Have a Good Day,
Rich/rerat


"wabbleknee" <grunge@hobbleknee.com> wrote in message 
news:idmalk$ddq$1@speranza.aioe.org...
a1= $2.73
b1=2
c1=6.5%
d1=$5.89

Very simply I want to take the unit price (a1) * Qty (b1) and add the sales
tax (c1) and have the result in one cell  (d1).  I can do it with helper
column but would rather not.  The answer should be $5.89.   (d1)


Tx


0
rrr_news (40)
12/7/2010 10:36:09 PM
I just have to ask... why use a signature delimiter while
using Outlook Express? OE is a program that doesn't utilize
the delimiter for its intended purpose, which is to delete
itself and everything after it when someone replies. Sig
delimiters only make sense when bottom posting. Using it
when top posting removes relevant parts of the post. You'll
notice that what you responded to is now missing from this
post because my news app deleted it when I hit reply.

Jordon

Rich/rerat wrote:
> wabbleknee,
> Your D1 figure is wrong. It should be in the $5.81 or $5.82 range based on
> how you rounded the result.
> Choose from the following formulas, and place one in Cell D1, drag and fill
> down the rest of the column:
>
> =ROUND(SUM($A1*$B1,$A1*B1*$C1),2)
>
> =ROUND(($A1*$B1)*(1+$C1),2)
> Will give you $5.81
>
> =ROUNDUP(SUM($A1*$B1,$A1*B1*$C1),2)
>
> =ROUNDUP(($A1*$B1)*(1+$C1),2)
> Will give you $5.82
>

0
Jordon
12/7/2010 10:59:53 PM
On Dec 7, 1:58=A0pm, "wabbleknee" <gru...@hobbleknee.com> wrote:
> a1=3D $2.73
> b1=3D2
> c1=3D6.5%
> d1=3D$5.89
> Very simply I want to take the unit price (a1) * Qty (b1) and add the sal=
es
> tax (c1) and have the result in one cell =A0(d1). =A0I can do it with hel=
per
> column but would rather not. =A0The answer should be $5.89. =A0 (d1)

The answer should be $5.81.

In the US, sales tax is rounded to the penny, then added to the pre-
tax amount.  So the formula in D1 should be ostensibly:

=3DA1*B1 + ROUND(A1*B1*C1,2)

But in order to avoid anomalies of computer binary arithmetic, it is
more reliable as well as more efficient to write:

=3DROUND(A1*B1*(1+C1),2)
0
joeu2004 (766)
12/7/2010 11:10:17 PM
* * *

"joeu2004"  wrote in message 
news:988564df-4be9-43a7-947c-791781837458@v17g2000prc.googlegroups.com...

On Dec 7, 1:58 pm, "wabbleknee" <gru...@hobbleknee.com> wrote:
> a1= $2.73
> b1=2
> c1=6.5%
> d1=$5.89
> Very simply I want to take the unit price (a1) * Qty (b1) and add the 
> sales
> tax (c1) and have the result in one cell  (d1).  I can do it with helper
> column but would rather not.  The answer should be $5.89.   (d1)

The answer should be $5.81.

In the US, sales tax is rounded to the penny, then added to the pre-
tax amount.  So the formula in D1 should be ostensibly:

=A1*B1 + ROUND(A1*B1*C1,2)

But in order to avoid anomalies of computer binary arithmetic, it is
more reliable as well as more efficient to write:

=ROUND(A1*B1*(1+C1),2)


Your right....where in the h... did I get $5.89?   Using the last formula 
gets me what I want.  Tx 

0
grunge (11)
12/8/2010 1:42:23 AM
Hear, hear.

On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 14:59:53 -0800, Jordon
<jordon@REMOVE~THISmyrealbox.com> wrote:

>I just have to ask... why use a signature delimiter while
>using Outlook Express? OE is a program that doesn't utilize
>the delimiter for its intended purpose, which is to delete
>itself and everything after it when someone replies. Sig
>delimiters only make sense when bottom posting. Using it
>when top posting removes relevant parts of the post. You'll
>notice that what you responded to is now missing from this
>post because my news app deleted it when I hit reply.
>
>Jordon
>
>Rich/rerat wrote:
>> wabbleknee,
>> Your D1 figure is wrong. It should be in the $5.81 or $5.82 range based on
>> how you rounded the result.
>> Choose from the following formulas, and place one in Cell D1, drag and fill
>> down the rest of the column:
>>
>> =ROUND(SUM($A1*$B1,$A1*B1*$C1),2)
>>
>> =ROUND(($A1*$B1)*(1+$C1),2)
>> Will give you $5.81
>>
>> =ROUNDUP(SUM($A1*$B1,$A1*B1*$C1),2)
>>
>> =ROUNDUP(($A1*$B1)*(1+$C1),2)
>> Will give you $5.82
>>

0
dranon (82)
12/9/2010 12:34:20 AM
Jordon,
The signature delimiter is built into the signature block in OE. It's been
that way since I can remember for twelve (12) years, from OE4 to the current
version of OE6, which I use on a XP computer. I have it set to include the
text of the message I am repying to, and it seems to have no problem with
it. And not use the format of my reply from the message I am replying to.

I have never installed or used Mozilla or its variants, which appears to be
what you are using for a News Reader program. So I don't know how that
particular program deals with signature delimiters. So I don't know if there
is a setting or option in that program, which would then allow all the text
of the message thread below my signature block, in your replies to the
thread.

-- 
Have a Nice Day,
Rich/rerat
(RRR News)    <message rule>
<<Previous Text Snipped to Save Bandwidth When Appropriate>>


"Jordon" <jordon@REMOVE~THISmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:idme9a$idq$1@news.eternal-september.org...
I just have to ask... why use a signature delimiter while
using Outlook Express? OE is a program that doesn't utilize
the delimiter for its intended purpose, which is to delete
itself and everything after it when someone replies. Sig
delimiters only make sense when bottom posting. Using it
when top posting removes relevant parts of the post. You'll
notice that what you responded to is now missing from this
post because my news app deleted it when I hit reply.

Jordon

Rich/rerat wrote:
> wabbleknee,
> Your D1 figure is wrong. It should be in the $5.81 or $5.82 range based on
> how you rounded the result.
> Choose from the following formulas, and place one in Cell D1, drag and
> fill
> down the rest of the column:
>
> =ROUND(SUM($A1*$B1,$A1*B1*$C1),2)
>
> =ROUND(($A1*$B1)*(1+$C1),2)
> Will give you $5.81
>
> =ROUNDUP(SUM($A1*$B1,$A1*B1*$C1),2)
>
> =ROUNDUP(($A1*$B1)*(1+$C1),2)
> Will give you $5.82
>




0
rrr_news (40)
12/9/2010 4:28:31 PM
I appreciate the followup Rich.

I have OE on this computer (Win2k) and I just used it to add a
signature on an outgoing message. No delimiter shows up unless
I add it to the signature settings. I also have an XP computer
next to me. Same results with it.

What is the signature delimiter for? Since it ends with a space
it can't be purely for aesthetic reasons. Why add a character
that you can't see?

The only reason for the delimiter is so your email/news program
will strip everything below it when you reply to a message.

<http://www.officeformachelp.com/2007/06/signature_blocks_and_netiquett/>

<http://everything2.com/title/signature+delimiter>

It baffles me why OE users add the delimiter when OE was never
designed to use it. You never see what it was intended for. I
don't really care about top posting versus bottom posting, every
group is different. But when you use the delimiter when top
posting, when someone replies to your post (with a news reader
that supports the delimiter) everything below your post is stripped
out because your delimiter has marked it all as a signature.

If you use Google Advanced Search to search www.imc.org for
"signature delimiter" you'll see a lot of discussion about it
but it's a little tedious to get through.


Rich/rerat wrote:
> Jordon,
> The signature delimiter is built into the signature block in OE. It's been
> that way since I can remember for twelve (12) years, from OE4 to the current
> version of OE6, which I use on a XP computer. I have it set to include the
> text of the message I am repying to, and it seems to have no problem with
> it. And not use the format of my reply from the message I am replying to.
>
> I have never installed or used Mozilla or its variants, which appears to be
> what you are using for a News Reader program. So I don't know how that
> particular program deals with signature delimiters. So I don't know if there
> is a setting or option in that program, which would then allow all the text
> of the message thread below my signature block, in your replies to the
> thread.
>

0
Jordon
12/9/2010 5:23:54 PM
Jordon,

Why does OE and Mozilla products interact the way they do, don't know. Not a
programmer. I use the product I have. I have barely skimmed through Googles
newsgroups, and have seen that there have been discussions about this, and
nothing has been changed over the years. Just curious, are you using US
versions of Windows and OE, or are you using Europeon versions, I have the
US versions. That may be the difference, and your versions not adding the
signature delimiter..

My PCs over the years:
1. Purchased 1998: Packard Bell MM955 Windows 1stED (US)
IE/OE4 to IE/OE5.5
2. Purchased 2003: Dell Dim4600 WinXP Home (US)
IE/OE6 to IE8 w/updates, and OE6 with current updates.
3. Purchased 2006: Dell DimE521 WinXP MCE (US)
IE/OE6 to IE8 w/updates, and OE6 with current updates.

OE has been adding the signature delimiter from at least 5/10/99, on the
computers that I have owned. I was using OE4, or maybe OE5 at the time, but
can't remember. You will see with this link from a posting of mine dated
5/10/99.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.newservers/browse_thread/thread/4ed70ddce2136bf1/301cadc7021b9460?hl=en&q=author:rerat

1. For the majority of the time that I have posted to newsgroups, I have
used plain text for message format. May had posted messages after I upgraded
OE, but had yet made changes from default after the upgrade.
2. Uuencode selected under advance button, under Sending Tab in Options.
With no Identations.
3. Using Outlook Express (OE4 Tthough OE6) as my Mail client, did not
install a version of Outlook until 2003 on my PC. And rarely use it. It was
part of an Office Installation.
4. Used NotePad as my Editor.
5. Always had signatures added to my replies and new messages automatically.
6. Uncheck box to Reply in same format as Sender.
7. Current version of OE6 is 6.2900.5512.


-- 
Have a Good Day,
Rich/rerat


"Jordon" <jordon@REMOVE~THISmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:idr3bb$4g1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
I appreciate the followup Rich.

I have OE on this computer (Win2k) and I just used it to add a
signature on an outgoing message. No delimiter shows up unless
I add it to the signature settings. I also have an XP computer
next to me. Same results with it.

What is the signature delimiter for? Since it ends with a space
it can't be purely for aesthetic reasons. Why add a character
that you can't see?

The only reason for the delimiter is so your email/news program
will strip everything below it when you reply to a message.

<http://www.officeformachelp.com/2007/06/signature_blocks_and_netiquett/>

<http://everything2.com/title/signature+delimiter>

It baffles me why OE users add the delimiter when OE was never
designed to use it. You never see what it was intended for. I
don't really care about top posting versus bottom posting, every
group is different. But when you use the delimiter when top
posting, when someone replies to your post (with a news reader
that supports the delimiter) everything below your post is stripped
out because your delimiter has marked it all as a signature.

If you use Google Advanced Search to search www.imc.org for
"signature delimiter" you'll see a lot of discussion about it
but it's a little tedious to get through.


Rich/rerat wrote:
> Jordon,
> The signature delimiter is built into the signature block in OE. It's been
> that way since I can remember for twelve (12) years, from OE4 to the
> current
> version of OE6, which I use on a XP computer. I have it set to include the
> text of the message I am repying to, and it seems to have no problem with
> it. And not use the format of my reply from the message I am replying to.
>
> I have never installed or used Mozilla or its variants, which appears to
> be
> what you are using for a News Reader program. So I don't know how that
> particular program deals with signature delimiters. So I don't know if
> there
> is a setting or option in that program, which would then allow all the
> text
> of the message thread below my signature block, in your replies to the
> thread.
>




0
rrr_news (40)
12/10/2010 12:01:10 AM
Jordon,

My PCs over the years:
1. Purchased 1998: Packard Bell MM955 Windows 98 1stED (US)
Came with: IE/OE4 Upgraded to: IE/OE5.5
2. Purchased 2003: Dell Dim4600 WinXP Home (US)
Came with: IE/OE6 Upgraded to: IE8 w/updates, and OE6 with current updates.
3. Purchased 2006: Dell DimE521 WinXP MCE (US)
Came with: IE/OE6 Upgraded to: IE8 w/updates, and OE6 with current updates.


OE has been adding the signature delimiter from at least 5/10/99, on the 
computers that I have owned. I was using OE4, or maybe OE5.0 at the time, 
but can't remember for sure. Can you tell me where under the Options section 
where I can turn off the delimiter?

You will see with this link from a posting of mine dated 5/10/99.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.newservers/browse_thread/thread/4ed70ddce2136bf1/301cadc7021b9460?hl=en&q=author:rerat

Why does OE and Mozilla products interact the way they do, don't know. Not a 
programmer. I use the product I have. I have barely skimmed through Google's 
newsgroups archives, and have seen that there have been numerous discussions 
about this. And nothing has changed over the years concerning OE and Mozilla 
users, and this subject.. Just curious, are you using US versions of Windows 
and OE, or are you using European versions, I have the US versions. That may 
be the difference, and your versions not adding the signature delimiter, 
when used.

Without getting into a Flame War about Top Posting. I will say this. I have 
OE as my news reader, and set it to list the postings in a newsgroup in 
descending order, group by conversation, and to hide read messages/postings. 
By doing this I am probably guilty of posting my replies in the wrong thread 
of the original question/posting, and follow-up replies. I can see the 
feature of a news reader of deleting every thing after a signature delimiter 
more like a threading issue, and how people post to a thread.

Example#1:
1. Post Question#1 by Al Smith
-->    2. Re: Post Question#1 by Rerat
            Wrong Response
    -->        3. Re: Post Question#1 by Jordon
                Correct Answer to Al Smith
                Plus telling Al Smith and Rerat, that Rerat's answer was 
wrong.

But in this process, Al Smith's original message/posting is not part of 
Jordan's Message/Posting reply.

What I think should happen in this case, based on the behavior of the 
Signature Delimiter with different news readers:

Example#2:
1. Post Question#1 by Al Smith
-->    2. Re: Post Question#1 by Rerat
            Wrong Response
        -->    4. Re: Post Question#1 by Jordon
                    Telling Rerat that his  answer was wrong.
-->    3. Re: Post Question#1 by Jordon
                Correct Answer to Al Smith: Plus telling Al Smith that 
Rerat's answer was wrong.

But that would require Jordon to make two (2) responses instead of one, to 
the original message/posting and reply/posting.

Example#3:
1. Post Question#1 by Al Smith
-->    2. Re: Post Question#1 by Rerat
            Wrong Response
-->    3. Re: Post Question#1 by Jordon
                Correct Answer to Al Smith: Plus telling Al Smith that 
Rerat's answer was wrong.

And Rerat reading later in the thread, that Jordon states his answer was 
wrong.

One of the links you gave me was for www.IMC.org :
I quote from the website:

"IMC is the host of numerous mailing lists that relate to Internet mail 
standards. Some of these mailing lists are for work being done in the IETF, 
while others are for discussion of particular mail topics."

I don't take much stock in IMC, since IETF provides them financial support, 
and IETF appears to be bankrupt or disbanded in the US. The Chicago website 
has not been updated since 2003. And the links on the IMC website,  appear 
to be just an archive of messages between individuals, dated years ago. 
Nothing more than a coffee clutch.

I would just say that I like the features of OE, you appear to prefer the 
features of Mozilla. In some ways they are not compatible with one another. 
If my postings become a problem for some others, then they can ignore them. 
My News Service ( news.eternal-september.org ), which appears to be the same 
one as you are using, has not stopped me from posting through them, so I am 
not in violation of their TOS policies, and I leave it at that.

-- 
Have a Good Day,
Rich/rerat


"Jordon" <jordon@REMOVE~THISmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:idr3bb$4g1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
I appreciate the follow-up Rich.

I have OE on this computer (Win2k) and I just used it to add a
signature on an outgoing message. No delimiter shows up unless
I add it to the signature settings. I also have an XP computer
next to me. Same results with it.

What is the signature delimiter for? Since it ends with a space
it can't be purely for aesthetic reasons. Why add a character
that you can't see?

The only reason for the delimiter is so your email/news program
will strip everything below it when you reply to a message.

<http://www.officeformachelp.com/2007/06/signature_blocks_and_netiquett/>

<http://everything2.com/title/signature+delimiter>

It baffles me why OE users add the delimiter when OE was never
designed to use it. You never see what it was intended for. I
don't really care about top posting versus bottom posting, every
group is different. But when you use the delimiter when top
posting, when someone replies to your post (with a news reader
that supports the delimiter) everything below your post is stripped
out because your delimiter has marked it all as a signature.

If you use Google Advanced Search to search www.imc.org for
"signature delimiter" you'll see a lot of discussion about it
but it's a little tedious to get through.


Rich/rerat wrote:
> Jordon,
> The signature delimiter is built into the signature block in OE. It's been
> that way since I can remember for twelve (12) years, from OE4 to the
> current
> version of OE6, which I use on a XP computer. I have it set to include the
> text of the message I am replying to, and it seems to have no problem with
> it. And not use the format of my reply from the message I am replying to.
>
> I have never installed or used Mozilla or its variants, which appears to
> be
> what you are using for a News Reader program. So I don't know how that
> particular program deals with signature delimiters. So I don't know if
> there
> is a setting or option in that program, which would then allow all the
> text
> of the message thread below my signature block, in your replies to the
> thread.
>




0
rrr_news (40)
12/10/2010 12:02:07 AM
My first PC was a 286, 40 meg HD, 640k of non-upgradable
memory (1990). I'm in the states. I've been using Usenet
since around 1995, and for a lot of years, it was with OE.

Do me a favor? Open Tools/Options/Signatures and see if
you can remove the delimiter? I don't care if you put it
back or not. I just find it hard to believe that your
version of OE automatically inserts the delimiter when
OE was never designed us use the delimiter and in my
20 years of experience I've never found it to work that
way.

Rich/rerat wrote:
> Jordon,
>
> My PCs over the years:
> 1. Purchased 1998: Packard Bell MM955 Windows 98 1stED (US)
> Came with: IE/OE4 Upgraded to: IE/OE5.5
> 2. Purchased 2003: Dell Dim4600 WinXP Home (US)
> Came with: IE/OE6 Upgraded to: IE8 w/updates, and OE6 with current updates.
> 3. Purchased 2006: Dell DimE521 WinXP MCE (US)
> Came with: IE/OE6 Upgraded to: IE8 w/updates, and OE6 with current updates.
>
>
> OE has been adding the signature delimiter from at least 5/10/99, on the
> computers that I have owned. I was using OE4, or maybe OE5.0 at the time,
> but can't remember for sure. Can you tell me where under the Options section
> where I can turn off the delimiter?
>
> You will see with this link from a posting of mine dated 5/10/99.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.newservers/browse_thread/thread/4ed70ddce2136bf1/301cadc7021b9460?hl=en&q=author:rerat
>
> Why does OE and Mozilla products interact the way they do, don't know. Not a
> programmer. I use the product I have. I have barely skimmed through Google's
> newsgroups archives, and have seen that there have been numerous discussions
> about this. And nothing has changed over the years concerning OE and Mozilla
> users, and this subject.. Just curious, are you using US versions of Windows
> and OE, or are you using European versions, I have the US versions. That may
> be the difference, and your versions not adding the signature delimiter,
> when used.
>
> Without getting into a Flame War about Top Posting. I will say this. I have
> OE as my news reader, and set it to list the postings in a newsgroup in
> descending order, group by conversation, and to hide read messages/postings.
> By doing this I am probably guilty of posting my replies in the wrong thread
> of the original question/posting, and follow-up replies. I can see the
> feature of a news reader of deleting every thing after a signature delimiter
> more like a threading issue, and how people post to a thread.
>
> Example#1:
> 1. Post Question#1 by Al Smith
> -->     2. Re: Post Question#1 by Rerat
>              Wrong Response
>      -->         3. Re: Post Question#1 by Jordon
>                  Correct Answer to Al Smith
>                  Plus telling Al Smith and Rerat, that Rerat's answer was
> wrong.
>
> But in this process, Al Smith's original message/posting is not part of
> Jordan's Message/Posting reply.
>
> What I think should happen in this case, based on the behavior of the
> Signature Delimiter with different news readers:
>
> Example#2:
> 1. Post Question#1 by Al Smith
> -->     2. Re: Post Question#1 by Rerat
>              Wrong Response
>          -->     4. Re: Post Question#1 by Jordon
>                      Telling Rerat that his  answer was wrong.
> -->     3. Re: Post Question#1 by Jordon
>                  Correct Answer to Al Smith: Plus telling Al Smith that
> Rerat's answer was wrong.
>
> But that would require Jordon to make two (2) responses instead of one, to
> the original message/posting and reply/posting.
>
> Example#3:
> 1. Post Question#1 by Al Smith
> -->     2. Re: Post Question#1 by Rerat
>              Wrong Response
> -->     3. Re: Post Question#1 by Jordon
>                  Correct Answer to Al Smith: Plus telling Al Smith that
> Rerat's answer was wrong.
>
> And Rerat reading later in the thread, that Jordon states his answer was
> wrong.
>
> One of the links you gave me was for www.IMC.org :
> I quote from the website:
>
> "IMC is the host of numerous mailing lists that relate to Internet mail
> standards. Some of these mailing lists are for work being done in the IETF,
> while others are for discussion of particular mail topics."
>
> I don't take much stock in IMC, since IETF provides them financial support,
> and IETF appears to be bankrupt or disbanded in the US. The Chicago website
> has not been updated since 2003. And the links on the IMC website,  appear
> to be just an archive of messages between individuals, dated years ago.
> Nothing more than a coffee clutch.
>
> I would just say that I like the features of OE, you appear to prefer the
> features of Mozilla. In some ways they are not compatible with one another.
> If my postings become a problem for some others, then they can ignore them.
> My News Service ( news.eternal-september.org ), which appears to be the same
> one as you are using, has not stopped me from posting through them, so I am
> not in violation of their TOS policies, and I leave it at that.
>

0
Jordon
12/10/2010 3:54:03 PM
Jordon,
I have added "OT" to the subject line, because this is really not a
discussion to have in a EXCEL related newsgroup. But should be moved to an
Outlook Express newsgroup like:
microsoft.public.windows.outlookexpress.general or a Mozilla newsgroup.

JPEG files of tabs under Options in OE on my PC.
http://cid-ae0324e3e067e636.office.live.com/browse.aspx/Newsgroups/For%20Jordon?uc=1

OE4 was introduced in 1997 with IE4, prior to that Windows used a program
called Windows Mail with IE3, which was similar to OUTLOOK, and the
delimiter was in there at the time of OE4's introduction.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/community/columns/historyofie.mspx

From Tom Koch an MVP specializing in OutlookExpress, posted on 12/5/2001, in
the microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie5.outlookexpress newsgroup:

He indicated that OE5 was inserting the signature delimiter automatically at
that time, and that people wanted it to change it then, but there was no
guarantee that it would be changed in OE6. And I have already provided you a
link to a posting to the newsgroups dated in 1999, showing the delimiter,
from a message/posting I wrote. So the problem has been around since OE5
came out, and I am sure with OE4, too.

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie5.outlookexpress/browse_thread/thread/8210a35d8465caf/42ef2cbbab473940?hl=en&q=signature+delimiter+author:tom+author:koch

An additional observation that may or may not be true. I have notice, that
the built in OE Spell Checker might use the delimiter, to restrict spell
checking to only new text in replies, above it. Which may be the reason why
OE defaults to "Top-posting" for reply messages/postings.

I am happy with the way OE functions for me; you prefer a Mozilla product.
And there appears a perceived conflict with messages created by these two
(2) products. I have offered you information about the version of OE6 that I
am using, and historically information on the problem which you inquired
about. As I said before, I am in compliance with the news service's TOS I
use, and plan to post to that service with OE6, that I have, until
instructed otherwise by the service.

With the little reading that I have done throughout this, Mozilla
products/versions have had bug issues with the delimiter, even with mail
sent by other mozilla clients. I would just suggest that you look through
Mozilla oriented newsgroups, and see if there are any solutions posted there
to resolve these programs interaction conflicts. Or contact the support
staff of Mozilla, and see they have a solution to your problem. I can't help
you anymore with this issue.

-- 
Have a Good Day,
Rich/rerat
(RRR News)    (message rule)
((Previous Text Snipped to Save Bandwidth When Appropriate))

"Jordon" <jordon@REMOVE~THISmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:idtieu$jkl$1@news.eternal-september.org...
My first PC was a 286, 40 meg HD, 640k of non-upgradable
memory (1990). I'm in the states. I've been using Usenet
since around 1995, and for a lot of years, it was with OE.

Do me a favor? Open Tools/Options/Signatures and see if
you can remove the delimiter? I don't care if you put it
back or not. I just find it hard to believe that your
version of OE automatically inserts the delimiter when
OE was never designed us use the delimiter and in my
20 years of experience I've never found it to work that
way.




0
rrr_news (40)
12/10/2010 11:20:33 PM
You are using an external file for a signature, which I've
never done. Put a signature in the Text box and it doesn't
add the delimiter. Does your external file include the
delimiter? I don't see that in your list of jpegs.

If it doesn't and OE is adding one, then it only confirms
my opinion that MS has never been concerned with standards.
I am convinced that they design their programs so they don't
play nice with competitive programs in order to capture more
of the market. One example... Google...

outlook winmail.dat

Outlook (not OE) will create attachments out of Word, pdfs
and rtf files and insert them into a file called winmail.dat,
which anyone not using Outlook can't open. Users of Outlook
have no problems opening them. The problem has been there
for years and MS refuses to address it.

Why in the heck would they design OE to add a delimiter
when OE itself, can't use it for it's intended purpose?

Rich/rerat wrote:
> Jordon,
> I have added "OT" to the subject line, because this is really not a
> discussion to have in a EXCEL related newsgroup. But should be moved to an
> Outlook Express newsgroup like:
> microsoft.public.windows.outlookexpress.general or a Mozilla newsgroup.
>
> JPEG files of tabs under Options in OE on my PC.
> http://cid-ae0324e3e067e636.office.live.com/browse.aspx/Newsgroups/For%20Jordon?uc=1
>
> OE4 was introduced in 1997 with IE4, prior to that Windows used a program
> called Windows Mail with IE3, which was similar to OUTLOOK, and the
> delimiter was in there at the time of OE4's introduction.
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/community/columns/historyofie.mspx
>
>  From Tom Koch an MVP specializing in OutlookExpress, posted on 12/5/2001, in
> the microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie5.outlookexpress newsgroup:
>
> He indicated that OE5 was inserting the signature delimiter automatically at
> that time, and that people wanted it to change it then, but there was no
> guarantee that it would be changed in OE6. And I have already provided you a
> link to a posting to the newsgroups dated in 1999, showing the delimiter,
> from a message/posting I wrote. So the problem has been around since OE5
> came out, and I am sure with OE4, too.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie5.outlookexpress/browse_thread/thread/8210a35d8465caf/42ef2cbbab473940?hl=en&q=signature+delimiter+author:tom+author:koch
>
> An additional observation that may or may not be true. I have notice, that
> the built in OE Spell Checker might use the delimiter, to restrict spell
> checking to only new text in replies, above it. Which may be the reason why
> OE defaults to "Top-posting" for reply messages/postings.
>
> I am happy with the way OE functions for me; you prefer a Mozilla product.
> And there appears a perceived conflict with messages created by these two
> (2) products. I have offered you information about the version of OE6 that I
> am using, and historically information on the problem which you inquired
> about. As I said before, I am in compliance with the news service's TOS I
> use, and plan to post to that service with OE6, that I have, until
> instructed otherwise by the service.
>
> With the little reading that I have done throughout this, Mozilla
> products/versions have had bug issues with the delimiter, even with mail
> sent by other mozilla clients. I would just suggest that you look through
> Mozilla oriented newsgroups, and see if there are any solutions posted there
> to resolve these programs interaction conflicts. Or contact the support
> staff of Mozilla, and see they have a solution to your problem. I can't help
> you anymore with this issue.
>

0
Jordon
12/11/2010 12:06:36 AM
Jordon,
You signature file theory doesn't apply, already check that out. If I put 
the signature in the signature tab in the text box provided, under options 
or use a text file created with notepad, the signature delimiter is 
automatically added either way. Also adding signatures from the message 
toolbar under INSERT, does the same thing. As I have said and proven, this 
has been the behavior of OE since at least OE5.0, and may even be part of 
Windows Live Mail which was introduce for Windows Vista, and upgraded for 
Windows7. But I will add the signature files I use, to the JPEG folder 
mentioned in last posting.

http://cid-ae0324e3e067e636.office.live.com/browse.aspx/Newsgroups/For%20Jordon?uc=1

Jordon you only choice now is to either find a fix to your problem through 
the Mozilla newsgroups, or don't make replies to my postings and others that 
post with OE that automatically add a signature delimiter to their messages. 
If you do, pieces of the original thread will be lost, unless you do a lot 
of copying and pasting.
-- 
Rich/rerat
(RRR News)    (message rule)
((Previous Text Snipped to Save Bandwidth When Appropriate))

"Jordon" <jordon@REMOVE~THISmyrealbox.com> wrote in message 
news:idufae$2cu$1@news.eternal-september.org...
You are using an external file for a signature, which I've
never done. Put a signature in the Text box and it doesn't
add the delimiter. Does your external file include the
delimiter? I don't see that in your list of jpegs.

If it doesn't and OE is adding one, then it only confirms
my opinion that MS has never been concerned with standards.
I am convinced that they design their programs so they don't
play nice with competitive programs in order to capture more
of the market. One example... Google...

outlook winmail.dat

Outlook (not OE) will create attachments out of Word, pdfs
and rtf files and insert them into a file called winmail.dat,
which anyone not using Outlook can't open. Users of Outlook
have no problems opening them. The problem has been there
for years and MS refuses to address it.

Why in the heck would they design OE to add a delimiter
when OE itself, can't use it for it's intended purpose?



0
rrr_news (40)
12/11/2010 5:23:24 AM
I'm not the one with the problem.

Why do you refuse to look up the purpose of the delimiter? Are
you saying that the following links contain erroneous information?

<http://www.officeformachelp.com/2007/06/signature_blocks_and_netiquett/>

<http://everything2.com/title/signature+delimiter>

Rich/rerat wrote:
> Jordon,
> You signature file theory doesn't apply, already check that out. If I put
> the signature in the signature tab in the text box provided, under options
> or use a text file created with notepad, the signature delimiter is
> automatically added either way. Also adding signatures from the message
> toolbar under INSERT, does the same thing. As I have said and proven, this
> has been the behavior of OE since at least OE5.0, and may even be part of
> Windows Live Mail which was introduce for Windows Vista, and upgraded for
> Windows7. But I will add the signature files I use, to the JPEG folder
> mentioned in last posting.
>
> http://cid-ae0324e3e067e636.office.live.com/browse.aspx/Newsgroups/For%20Jordon?uc=1
>
> Jordon you only choice now is to either find a fix to your problem through
> the Mozilla newsgroups, or don't make replies to my postings and others that
> post with OE that automatically add a signature delimiter to their messages.
> If you do, pieces of the original thread will be lost, unless you do a lot
> of copying and pasting.

0
Jordon
12/13/2010 5:18:56 PM
Jordon
1. First link is irreverent, since I do not use Office for Mac, there are 
even some slight differences between MS Office and Office for Mac. I use OE6 
for both mail and news, and the signature delimiter is built into it, and 
always has been, since OE5, and maybe with OE4.

2. Second link states that the replier's mail/news client or service should 
automatically remove the delimiter, when creating the reply, if not, then 
the writer of the reply should remove the delimiter, manually. So if 
anything the problem is with the replier's software, or mail/news service, 
or the process the replier uses to create the reply, not the original 
sender's.

Jordon you only choice now is to either find a fix to your problem through 
the Mozilla newsgroups, or don't make replies to my postings and others that 
post with OE that automatically add a signature delimiter to their messages. 
If you do, pieces of the original thread will be lost, unless you do a lot 
of copying and pasting.

I will longer participate in this thread, Jordon, you need to another 
solution to your problem, I can't help you.

-- 

Rich/rerat
(RRR News)    (message rule)
((Previous Text Snipped to Save Bandwidth When Appropriate))



"Jordon" <jordon@REMOVE~THISmyrealbox.com> wrote in message 
news:ie5ki0$och$1@news.eternal-september.org...
I'm not the one with the problem.

Why do you refuse to look up the purpose of the delimiter? Are
you saying that the following links contain erroneous information?

<http://www.officeformachelp.com/2007/06/signature_blocks_and_netiquett/>

<http://everything2.com/title/signature+delimiter>



0
rrr_news (40)
12/13/2010 7:08:31 PM
Rich/rerat wrote:
> Jordon
> 1. First link is irreverent, since I do not use Office for Mac,

But it provides an explanation for the delimiter.

> 2. Second link states that the replier's mail/news client or service should
> automatically remove the delimiter, when creating the reply,

EXACTLY! That's what the delimiter is for. The replier's client
removes the delimiter and everything below it.

Your client does not do that. You don't get to see what the
delimiter is for because OE was never designed to use it. When
you top post and use the delimiter, the person that replies to
your message with a properly configured client ends up with
part of the post missing.

> if not, then
> the writer of the reply should remove the delimiter, manually. So if
> anything the problem is with the replier's software, or mail/news service,
> or the process the replier uses to create the reply, not the original
> sender's.

The light isn't coming on is it? Fine. Bury your head in the
sand and go on thinking OE is the finest email/news client
available.
0
Jordon
12/13/2010 7:41:52 PM
On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 00:23:24 -0500, "Rich/rerat" <rrr_news@isp.com>
wrote:

>Jordon,
>You signature file theory doesn't apply, already check that out. If I put 
>the signature in the signature tab in the text box provided, under options 
>or use a text file created with notepad, the signature delimiter is 
>automatically added either way. Also adding signatures from the message 
>toolbar under INSERT, does the same thing. As I have said and proven, this 
>has been the behavior of OE since at least OE5.0, and may even be part of 
>Windows Live Mail which was introduce for Windows Vista, and upgraded for 
>Windows7. But I will add the signature files I use, to the JPEG folder 
>mentioned in last posting.
>
>http://cid-ae0324e3e067e636.office.live.com/browse.aspx/Newsgroups/For%20Jordon?uc=1
>
>Jordon you only choice now is to either find a fix to your problem through 
>the Mozilla newsgroups, or don't make replies to my postings and others that 
>post with OE that automatically add a signature delimiter to their messages. 
>If you do, pieces of the original thread will be lost, unless you do a lot 
>of copying and pasting.

Or, in the case where you have bottom posted, no problems for anybody.

Strange, but the conclusion I'm reaching is that the addition of the
delimeter is an attempt to force those who post to adhere to the long
recognized preference for bottom posting.
0
dranon (82)
12/13/2010 8:41:49 PM
Reply:

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