One to Many Relationship between a Company and its' Contacts/Emplo

This one's for a Microsoft Engineer / Product rep to answer. If anyone else 
has any input, please jump in...

Q: Why wasn't MSCRM designed with a Company layer? This is to say, why isn't 
there a singular relationship between a Company and all of its employees 
(contacts). I have a collection of small businesses and we've used every 
contact manager from ACT to Goldmine over the years and I have come across 
this same problem with most early versions of all of these.

At this stage of evolution of "true" CRM though, it seems to somewhat of an 
unforgivable design flaw not to have such a design. There is no more natural 
relationship than the company organization. Why not create the functionality 
to support it?  

I moved (3) of my businesses from Siebel to CRM and I could not be happier - 
with the bold exception of this very obvious failure. 

Can somebody please reply and let me know if Microsoft plans on adding this 
functionality, feels it's important or hjust thinks I'm nuts.

Thanks,

MikeG 

0
Utf
8/6/2004 5:09:01 PM
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Hi,

I am not a Microsoft CRM Engineer but I'm not understand 
why you said one Account to many Contact is impossible.

When you create you Account, after you click on save 
button, you have a new tab with Contact. From their, you 
can create the number of contact you want.

And from your Account form, you can link a primary 
contact. 

And if you need to create many to many relationship, you 
can use ISV like C360 and Salentica

An

>-----Original Message-----
>This one's for a Microsoft Engineer / Product rep to 
answer. If anyone else 
>has any input, please jump in...
>
>Q: Why wasn't MSCRM designed with a Company layer? This 
is to say, why isn't 
>there a singular relationship between a Company and all 
of its employees 
>(contacts). I have a collection of small businesses and 
we've used every 
>contact manager from ACT to Goldmine over the years and 
I have come across 
>this same problem with most early versions of all of 
these.
>
>At this stage of evolution of "true" CRM though, it 
seems to somewhat of an 
>unforgivable design flaw not to have such a design. 
There is no more natural 
>relationship than the company organization. Why not 
create the functionality 
>to support it?  
>
>I moved (3) of my businesses from Siebel to CRM and I 
could not be happier - 
>with the bold exception of this very obvious failure. 
>
>Can somebody please reply and let me know if Microsoft 
plans on adding this 
>functionality, feels it's important or hjust thinks I'm 
nuts.
>
>Thanks,
>
>MikeG 
>
>.
>
0
An
8/6/2004 6:12:51 PM
An is correct.

Accounts = Businesses in MSCRM. They can have many Contacts (people) related
to them. To associate an existing contact with an account, open the contact
form and select the "parent account" in the lookup. Next time you open the
account form, you will see the contact under the contacts tab.

Hope that helps,
Alex


"An" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:177401c47be0$fc7eddc0$a501280a@phx.gbl...
> Hi,
>
> I am not a Microsoft CRM Engineer but I'm not understand
> why you said one Account to many Contact is impossible.
>
> When you create you Account, after you click on save
> button, you have a new tab with Contact. From their, you
> can create the number of contact you want.
>
> And from your Account form, you can link a primary
> contact.
>
> And if you need to create many to many relationship, you
> can use ISV like C360 and Salentica
>
> An
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >This one's for a Microsoft Engineer / Product rep to
> answer. If anyone else
> >has any input, please jump in...
> >
> >Q: Why wasn't MSCRM designed with a Company layer? This
> is to say, why isn't
> >there a singular relationship between a Company and all
> of its employees
> >(contacts). I have a collection of small businesses and
> we've used every
> >contact manager from ACT to Goldmine over the years and
> I have come across
> >this same problem with most early versions of all of
> these.
> >
> >At this stage of evolution of "true" CRM though, it
> seems to somewhat of an
> >unforgivable design flaw not to have such a design.
> There is no more natural
> >relationship than the company organization. Why not
> create the functionality
> >to support it?
> >
> >I moved (3) of my businesses from Siebel to CRM and I
> could not be happier -
> >with the bold exception of this very obvious failure.
> >
> >Can somebody please reply and let me know if Microsoft
> plans on adding this
> >functionality, feels it's important or hjust thinks I'm
> nuts.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >MikeG
> >
> >.
> >


0
alex_simons
8/6/2004 9:02:38 PM
Hey Mike,

I definitely understand your scenario here. I think that that you may be
reading more into the word "Account" than we meant to convey. In our
internal conversations, we always talk about Accounts = Businesses. We never
intended "Account" to have the extra level of contextual meaning that you
are thinking of. So in your scenario, I would add a drop down to the Account
form which let me give it a type: Customer, Vendor, Partner, etc. Then I
would build some views that I shared out with the right teams "Customers",
"Vendors", etc. for the Account tab that would filter on those properties.

Regarding the scenario of two leads, yes, each would convert the lead into a
Contact and maybe an Account and you would end up with two accounts. In v2.0
we are adding the ability to 1.) merge these duplicate records together and
maintain all the relevant notes, activities, etc. 2.) purchase aftermarket
dup-checking add-ons that will catch this at creation and prompt the user to
make sure they don't want to use the existing instance of "IBM".

Regards,
Alex


"MikeG" <MikeG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:66DF0378-CB07-4E9E-83FE-2902361D01E0@microsoft.com...
> Thanks for the Reply -
>
> I understand that in Accounts you can create this relationship, however an
> Account is a special kind of company.
>
> An Account  in CRM speak is a Business that you have a financial
> relationship with.
>
> A Company however is just a way to view an entitiy and prefereably all of
> it's associated contacts.
>
> Where the absence of this creates a problem in CRM is when you go to try
and
> create a Lead, the first step in entering business relationship in CRM,
you
> are promted to create a whole new entity and you have no way to associate
> that person to an existing Company thaty my be in your DB.
>
> So lets say that Sales Person 1 (SP1) creates contact / lead Bob Smith at
> IBM. When SP2 goes to create a new contact / lead at the same company they
> have to create a whole new company for that person.
>
> So now let's say that  our sales people SP1 & 2 both did thier job well
and
> converted their prospects into customers. Now it is time to convert those
> leads to Accounts.
>
> Now we have two seprate companies named IBM (which is a whole different
> problem , eg, CRM would of course not allow you to have to Accounts with
the
> exact same name so now you need to create some fake name for IBM #2).
>
> Are you starting to see the problem here?
>
> There is a major hierarchichal dbase structure / work flow flaw in CRM
that
> could be easily addressed by having another entity called Companies.
> Associated to comanies are Contacts. Companies can be Accounts, Companies
can
> be Vendors, Contacts can be Leads, ect...ect...ect...
>
> Please reply to this thread. I want to get Microsfots attention..
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
>
> "An" wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am not a Microsoft CRM Engineer but I'm not understand
> > why you said one Account to many Contact is impossible.
> >
> > When you create you Account, after you click on save
> > button, you have a new tab with Contact. From their, you
> > can create the number of contact you want.
> >
> > And from your Account form, you can link a primary
> > contact.
> >
> > And if you need to create many to many relationship, you
> > can use ISV like C360 and Salentica
> >
> > An
> >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >This one's for a Microsoft Engineer / Product rep to
> > answer. If anyone else
> > >has any input, please jump in...
> > >
> > >Q: Why wasn't MSCRM designed with a Company layer? This
> > is to say, why isn't
> > >there a singular relationship between a Company and all
> > of its employees
> > >(contacts). I have a collection of small businesses and
> > we've used every
> > >contact manager from ACT to Goldmine over the years and
> > I have come across
> > >this same problem with most early versions of all of
> > these.
> > >
> > >At this stage of evolution of "true" CRM though, it
> > seems to somewhat of an
> > >unforgivable design flaw not to have such a design.
> > There is no more natural
> > >relationship than the company organization. Why not
> > create the functionality
> > >to support it?
> > >
> > >I moved (3) of my businesses from Siebel to CRM and I
> > could not be happier -
> > >with the bold exception of this very obvious failure.
> > >
> > >Can somebody please reply and let me know if Microsoft
> > plans on adding this
> > >functionality, feels it's important or hjust thinks I'm
> > nuts.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >
> > >MikeG
> > >
> > >.
> > >
> >


0
alex_simons
8/10/2004 1:38:40 AM
Alex,

That drop down already exists.  In fact, I believe those exact options are in
there.

Matt Parks
MVP - Microsoft CRM

----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 18:38:40 -0700, "alex_simons" <alexsi@online.microsoft.com>
wrote:

Hey Mike,

I definitely understand your scenario here. I think that that you may be
reading more into the word "Account" than we meant to convey. In our
internal conversations, we always talk about Accounts = Businesses. We never
intended "Account" to have the extra level of contextual meaning that you
are thinking of. So in your scenario, I would add a drop down to the Account
form which let me give it a type: Customer, Vendor, Partner, etc. Then I
would build some views that I shared out with the right teams "Customers",
"Vendors", etc. for the Account tab that would filter on those properties.

Regarding the scenario of two leads, yes, each would convert the lead into a
Contact and maybe an Account and you would end up with two accounts. In v2.0
we are adding the ability to 1.) merge these duplicate records together and
maintain all the relevant notes, activities, etc. 2.) purchase aftermarket
dup-checking add-ons that will catch this at creation and prompt the user to
make sure they don't want to use the existing instance of "IBM".

Regards,
Alex


"MikeG" <MikeG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:66DF0378-CB07-4E9E-83FE-2902361D01E0@microsoft.com...
> Thanks for the Reply -
>
> I understand that in Accounts you can create this relationship, however an
> Account is a special kind of company.
>
> An Account  in CRM speak is a Business that you have a financial
> relationship with.
>
> A Company however is just a way to view an entitiy and prefereably all of
> it's associated contacts.
>
> Where the absence of this creates a problem in CRM is when you go to try
and
> create a Lead, the first step in entering business relationship in CRM,
you
> are promted to create a whole new entity and you have no way to associate
> that person to an existing Company thaty my be in your DB.
>
> So lets say that Sales Person 1 (SP1) creates contact / lead Bob Smith at
> IBM. When SP2 goes to create a new contact / lead at the same company they
> have to create a whole new company for that person.
>
> So now let's say that  our sales people SP1 & 2 both did thier job well
and
> converted their prospects into customers. Now it is time to convert those
> leads to Accounts.
>
> Now we have two seprate companies named IBM (which is a whole different
> problem , eg, CRM would of course not allow you to have to Accounts with
the
> exact same name so now you need to create some fake name for IBM #2).
>
> Are you starting to see the problem here?
>
> There is a major hierarchichal dbase structure / work flow flaw in CRM
that
> could be easily addressed by having another entity called Companies.
> Associated to comanies are Contacts. Companies can be Accounts, Companies
can
> be Vendors, Contacts can be Leads, ect...ect...ect...
>
> Please reply to this thread. I want to get Microsfots attention..
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
>
> "An" wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am not a Microsoft CRM Engineer but I'm not understand
> > why you said one Account to many Contact is impossible.
> >
> > When you create you Account, after you click on save
> > button, you have a new tab with Contact. From their, you
> > can create the number of contact you want.
> >
> > And from your Account form, you can link a primary
> > contact.
> >
> > And if you need to create many to many relationship, you
> > can use ISV like C360 and Salentica
> >
> > An
> >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >This one's for a Microsoft Engineer / Product rep to
> > answer. If anyone else
> > >has any input, please jump in...
> > >
> > >Q: Why wasn't MSCRM designed with a Company layer? This
> > is to say, why isn't
> > >there a singular relationship between a Company and all
> > of its employees
> > >(contacts). I have a collection of small businesses and
> > we've used every
> > >contact manager from ACT to Goldmine over the years and
> > I have come across
> > >this same problem with most early versions of all of
> > these.
> > >
> > >At this stage of evolution of "true" CRM though, it
> > seems to somewhat of an
> > >unforgivable design flaw not to have such a design.
> > There is no more natural
> > >relationship than the company organization. Why not
> > create the functionality
> > >to support it?
> > >
> > >I moved (3) of my businesses from Siebel to CRM and I
> > could not be happier -
> > >with the bold exception of this very obvious failure.
> > >
> > >Can somebody please reply and let me know if Microsoft
> > plans on adding this
> > >functionality, feels it's important or hjust thinks I'm
> > nuts.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >
> > >MikeG
> > >
> > >.
> > >
> >


0
Matt
8/12/2004 9:21:36 PM
It is also posible to address your other problem.  

When you promote a lead, you can either create a account 
and a inked contact, or just a contact.  If you create 
just a contact, you can then link it to an existing 
account - within the promotion process, or later.

Thanks

Gill
>-----Original Message-----
>An is correct.
>
>Accounts = Businesses in MSCRM. They can have many 
Contacts (people) related
>to them. To associate an existing contact with an 
account, open the contact
>form and select the "parent account" in the lookup. Next 
time you open the
>account form, you will see the contact under the contacts 
tab.
>
>Hope that helps,
>Alex
>
>
>"An" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in 
message
>news:177401c47be0$fc7eddc0$a501280a@phx.gbl...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am not a Microsoft CRM Engineer but I'm not understand
>> why you said one Account to many Contact is impossible.
>>
>> When you create you Account, after you click on save
>> button, you have a new tab with Contact. From their, you
>> can create the number of contact you want.
>>
>> And from your Account form, you can link a primary
>> contact.
>>
>> And if you need to create many to many relationship, you
>> can use ISV like C360 and Salentica
>>
>> An
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >This one's for a Microsoft Engineer / Product rep to
>> answer. If anyone else
>> >has any input, please jump in...
>> >
>> >Q: Why wasn't MSCRM designed with a Company layer? This
>> is to say, why isn't
>> >there a singular relationship between a Company and all
>> of its employees
>> >(contacts). I have a collection of small businesses and
>> we've used every
>> >contact manager from ACT to Goldmine over the years and
>> I have come across
>> >this same problem with most early versions of all of
>> these.
>> >
>> >At this stage of evolution of "true" CRM though, it
>> seems to somewhat of an
>> >unforgivable design flaw not to have such a design.
>> There is no more natural
>> >relationship than the company organization. Why not
>> create the functionality
>> >to support it?
>> >
>> >I moved (3) of my businesses from Siebel to CRM and I
>> could not be happier -
>> >with the bold exception of this very obvious failure.
>> >
>> >Can somebody please reply and let me know if Microsoft
>> plans on adding this
>> >functionality, feels it's important or hjust thinks I'm
>> nuts.
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >
>> >MikeG
>> >
>> >.
>> >
>
>
>.
>
0
Gill
9/14/2004 6:32:11 AM
Alex

regarding part 2 of yr message, i would like to have confirmation (by 
anyone) that 
the functionality of merging 2 (similar) records to 1, keeping associated 
contacts, opport, orders, activities, ... is going to be in MS CRM 2.0.

at the moment, we are considering to write our own duplicate checking 
add-on, but if it s going to be included somehow in MS CRM 's next version, 
.... maybe we don't have to any more...

does anyone know future v2.0 functionalities?

"alex_simons" wrote:

> Hey Mike,
> 
> I definitely understand your scenario here. I think that that you may be
> reading more into the word "Account" than we meant to convey. In our
> internal conversations, we always talk about Accounts = Businesses. We never
> intended "Account" to have the extra level of contextual meaning that you
> are thinking of. So in your scenario, I would add a drop down to the Account
> form which let me give it a type: Customer, Vendor, Partner, etc. Then I
> would build some views that I shared out with the right teams "Customers",
> "Vendors", etc. for the Account tab that would filter on those properties.
> 
> Regarding the scenario of two leads, yes, each would convert the lead into a
> Contact and maybe an Account and you would end up with two accounts. In v2.0
> we are adding the ability to 1.) merge these duplicate records together and
> maintain all the relevant notes, activities, etc. 2.) purchase aftermarket
> dup-checking add-ons that will catch this at creation and prompt the user to
> make sure they don't want to use the existing instance of "IBM".
> 
> Regards,
> Alex
> 
> 
> "MikeG" <MikeG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:66DF0378-CB07-4E9E-83FE-2902361D01E0@microsoft.com...
> > Thanks for the Reply -
> >
> > I understand that in Accounts you can create this relationship, however an
> > Account is a special kind of company.
> >
> > An Account  in CRM speak is a Business that you have a financial
> > relationship with.
> >
> > A Company however is just a way to view an entitiy and prefereably all of
> > it's associated contacts.
> >
> > Where the absence of this creates a problem in CRM is when you go to try
> and
> > create a Lead, the first step in entering business relationship in CRM,
> you
> > are promted to create a whole new entity and you have no way to associate
> > that person to an existing Company thaty my be in your DB.
> >
> > So lets say that Sales Person 1 (SP1) creates contact / lead Bob Smith at
> > IBM. When SP2 goes to create a new contact / lead at the same company they
> > have to create a whole new company for that person.
> >
> > So now let's say that  our sales people SP1 & 2 both did thier job well
> and
> > converted their prospects into customers. Now it is time to convert those
> > leads to Accounts.
> >
> > Now we have two seprate companies named IBM (which is a whole different
> > problem , eg, CRM would of course not allow you to have to Accounts with
> the
> > exact same name so now you need to create some fake name for IBM #2).
> >
> > Are you starting to see the problem here?
> >
> > There is a major hierarchichal dbase structure / work flow flaw in CRM
> that
> > could be easily addressed by having another entity called Companies.
> > Associated to comanies are Contacts. Companies can be Accounts, Companies
> can
> > be Vendors, Contacts can be Leads, ect...ect...ect...
> >
> > Please reply to this thread. I want to get Microsfots attention..
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > "An" wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I am not a Microsoft CRM Engineer but I'm not understand
> > > why you said one Account to many Contact is impossible.
> > >
> > > When you create you Account, after you click on save
> > > button, you have a new tab with Contact. From their, you
> > > can create the number of contact you want.
> > >
> > > And from your Account form, you can link a primary
> > > contact.
> > >
> > > And if you need to create many to many relationship, you
> > > can use ISV like C360 and Salentica
> > >
> > > An
> > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >This one's for a Microsoft Engineer / Product rep to
> > > answer. If anyone else
> > > >has any input, please jump in...
> > > >
> > > >Q: Why wasn't MSCRM designed with a Company layer? This
> > > is to say, why isn't
> > > >there a singular relationship between a Company and all
> > > of its employees
> > > >(contacts). I have a collection of small businesses and
> > > we've used every
> > > >contact manager from ACT to Goldmine over the years and
> > > I have come across
> > > >this same problem with most early versions of all of
> > > these.
> > > >
> > > >At this stage of evolution of "true" CRM though, it
> > > seems to somewhat of an
> > > >unforgivable design flaw not to have such a design.
> > > There is no more natural
> > > >relationship than the company organization. Why not
> > > create the functionality
> > > >to support it?
> > > >
> > > >I moved (3) of my businesses from Siebel to CRM and I
> > > could not be happier -
> > > >with the bold exception of this very obvious failure.
> > > >
> > > >Can somebody please reply and let me know if Microsoft
> > > plans on adding this
> > > >functionality, feels it's important or hjust thinks I'm
> > > nuts.
> > > >
> > > >Thanks,
> > > >
> > > >MikeG
> > > >
> > > >.
> > > >
> > >
> 
> 
> 
0
Utf
9/16/2004 11:41:16 AM
Hi,

I rebond on that design problem which was at the beginning : A contact can't
be linked to many account entities !!!
This is a blocking problem when you are in competition with others tools in
some vertical market segments like for example, administrations.
A "contact" can be a Manager, Big Boss, ... of a companie and also member of
a community; and if you don't want create duplicates or use C60 module
(additional cost of the solution) you can't do it.

Who knows if the schem or relation ship contcat / Account will be changed in
the V2.0 or later ?

Thanks
Dominique

"Webstef" <Webstef@discussions.microsoft.com> a �crit dans le message de
news:C0BB3C35-BA52-4F5C-8760-545DB5140804@microsoft.com...
> Alex
>
> regarding part 2 of yr message, i would like to have confirmation (by
> anyone) that
> the functionality of merging 2 (similar) records to 1, keeping associated
> contacts, opport, orders, activities, ... is going to be in MS CRM 2.0.
>
> at the moment, we are considering to write our own duplicate checking
> add-on, but if it s going to be included somehow in MS CRM 's next
version,
> ... maybe we don't have to any more...
>
> does anyone know future v2.0 functionalities?
>
> "alex_simons" wrote:
>
> > Hey Mike,
> >
> > I definitely understand your scenario here. I think that that you may be
> > reading more into the word "Account" than we meant to convey. In our
> > internal conversations, we always talk about Accounts = Businesses. We
never
> > intended "Account" to have the extra level of contextual meaning that
you
> > are thinking of. So in your scenario, I would add a drop down to the
Account
> > form which let me give it a type: Customer, Vendor, Partner, etc. Then I
> > would build some views that I shared out with the right teams
"Customers",
> > "Vendors", etc. for the Account tab that would filter on those
properties.
> >
> > Regarding the scenario of two leads, yes, each would convert the lead
into a
> > Contact and maybe an Account and you would end up with two accounts. In
v2.0
> > we are adding the ability to 1.) merge these duplicate records together
and
> > maintain all the relevant notes, activities, etc. 2.) purchase
aftermarket
> > dup-checking add-ons that will catch this at creation and prompt the
user to
> > make sure they don't want to use the existing instance of "IBM".
> >
> > Regards,
> > Alex
> >
> >
> > "MikeG" <MikeG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:66DF0378-CB07-4E9E-83FE-2902361D01E0@microsoft.com...
> > > Thanks for the Reply -
> > >
> > > I understand that in Accounts you can create this relationship,
however an
> > > Account is a special kind of company.
> > >
> > > An Account  in CRM speak is a Business that you have a financial
> > > relationship with.
> > >
> > > A Company however is just a way to view an entitiy and prefereably all
of
> > > it's associated contacts.
> > >
> > > Where the absence of this creates a problem in CRM is when you go to
try
> > and
> > > create a Lead, the first step in entering business relationship in
CRM,
> > you
> > > are promted to create a whole new entity and you have no way to
associate
> > > that person to an existing Company thaty my be in your DB.
> > >
> > > So lets say that Sales Person 1 (SP1) creates contact / lead Bob Smith
at
> > > IBM. When SP2 goes to create a new contact / lead at the same company
they
> > > have to create a whole new company for that person.
> > >
> > > So now let's say that  our sales people SP1 & 2 both did thier job
well
> > and
> > > converted their prospects into customers. Now it is time to convert
those
> > > leads to Accounts.
> > >
> > > Now we have two seprate companies named IBM (which is a whole
different
> > > problem , eg, CRM would of course not allow you to have to Accounts
with
> > the
> > > exact same name so now you need to create some fake name for IBM #2).
> > >
> > > Are you starting to see the problem here?
> > >
> > > There is a major hierarchichal dbase structure / work flow flaw in CRM
> > that
> > > could be easily addressed by having another entity called Companies.
> > > Associated to comanies are Contacts. Companies can be Accounts,
Companies
> > can
> > > be Vendors, Contacts can be Leads, ect...ect...ect...
> > >
> > > Please reply to this thread. I want to get Microsfots attention..
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > "An" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I am not a Microsoft CRM Engineer but I'm not understand
> > > > why you said one Account to many Contact is impossible.
> > > >
> > > > When you create you Account, after you click on save
> > > > button, you have a new tab with Contact. From their, you
> > > > can create the number of contact you want.
> > > >
> > > > And from your Account form, you can link a primary
> > > > contact.
> > > >
> > > > And if you need to create many to many relationship, you
> > > > can use ISV like C360 and Salentica
> > > >
> > > > An
> > > >
> > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > >This one's for a Microsoft Engineer / Product rep to
> > > > answer. If anyone else
> > > > >has any input, please jump in...
> > > > >
> > > > >Q: Why wasn't MSCRM designed with a Company layer? This
> > > > is to say, why isn't
> > > > >there a singular relationship between a Company and all
> > > > of its employees
> > > > >(contacts). I have a collection of small businesses and
> > > > we've used every
> > > > >contact manager from ACT to Goldmine over the years and
> > > > I have come across
> > > > >this same problem with most early versions of all of
> > > > these.
> > > > >
> > > > >At this stage of evolution of "true" CRM though, it
> > > > seems to somewhat of an
> > > > >unforgivable design flaw not to have such a design.
> > > > There is no more natural
> > > > >relationship than the company organization. Why not
> > > > create the functionality
> > > > >to support it?
> > > > >
> > > > >I moved (3) of my businesses from Siebel to CRM and I
> > > > could not be happier -
> > > > >with the bold exception of this very obvious failure.
> > > > >
> > > > >Can somebody please reply and let me know if Microsoft
> > > > plans on adding this
> > > > >functionality, feels it's important or hjust thinks I'm
> > > > nuts.
> > > > >
> > > > >Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > >MikeG
> > > > >
> > > > >.
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >


0
Dominique
9/30/2004 1:02:14 PM
CRM 2005 will support adding new entities, new relationships and m:m
relationships between entities.

Matt Parks
MVP - Microsoft CRM

----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:02:14 +0200, "Dominique Szczudlak"
<dszczudlak@NOaxialogSPAMfr> wrote:

Hi,

I rebond on that design problem which was at the beginning : A contact can't
be linked to many account entities !!!
This is a blocking problem when you are in competition with others tools in
some vertical market segments like for example, administrations.
A "contact" can be a Manager, Big Boss, ... of a companie and also member of
a community; and if you don't want create duplicates or use C60 module
(additional cost of the solution) you can't do it.

Who knows if the schem or relation ship contcat / Account will be changed in
the V2.0 or later ?

Thanks
Dominique

"Webstef" <Webstef@discussions.microsoft.com> a �crit dans le message de
news:C0BB3C35-BA52-4F5C-8760-545DB5140804@microsoft.com...
> Alex
>
> regarding part 2 of yr message, i would like to have confirmation (by
> anyone) that
> the functionality of merging 2 (similar) records to 1, keeping associated
> contacts, opport, orders, activities, ... is going to be in MS CRM 2.0.
>
> at the moment, we are considering to write our own duplicate checking
> add-on, but if it s going to be included somehow in MS CRM 's next
version,
> ... maybe we don't have to any more...
>
> does anyone know future v2.0 functionalities?
>
> "alex_simons" wrote:
>
> > Hey Mike,
> >
> > I definitely understand your scenario here. I think that that you may be
> > reading more into the word "Account" than we meant to convey. In our
> > internal conversations, we always talk about Accounts = Businesses. We
never
> > intended "Account" to have the extra level of contextual meaning that
you
> > are thinking of. So in your scenario, I would add a drop down to the
Account
> > form which let me give it a type: Customer, Vendor, Partner, etc. Then I
> > would build some views that I shared out with the right teams
"Customers",
> > "Vendors", etc. for the Account tab that would filter on those
properties.
> >
> > Regarding the scenario of two leads, yes, each would convert the lead
into a
> > Contact and maybe an Account and you would end up with two accounts. In
v2.0
> > we are adding the ability to 1.) merge these duplicate records together
and
> > maintain all the relevant notes, activities, etc. 2.) purchase
aftermarket
> > dup-checking add-ons that will catch this at creation and prompt the
user to
> > make sure they don't want to use the existing instance of "IBM".
> >
> > Regards,
> > Alex
> >
> >
> > "MikeG" <MikeG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:66DF0378-CB07-4E9E-83FE-2902361D01E0@microsoft.com...
> > > Thanks for the Reply -
> > >
> > > I understand that in Accounts you can create this relationship,
however an
> > > Account is a special kind of company.
> > >
> > > An Account  in CRM speak is a Business that you have a financial
> > > relationship with.
> > >
> > > A Company however is just a way to view an entitiy and prefereably all
of
> > > it's associated contacts.
> > >
> > > Where the absence of this creates a problem in CRM is when you go to
try
> > and
> > > create a Lead, the first step in entering business relationship in
CRM,
> > you
> > > are promted to create a whole new entity and you have no way to
associate
> > > that person to an existing Company thaty my be in your DB.
> > >
> > > So lets say that Sales Person 1 (SP1) creates contact / lead Bob Smith
at
> > > IBM. When SP2 goes to create a new contact / lead at the same company
they
> > > have to create a whole new company for that person.
> > >
> > > So now let's say that  our sales people SP1 & 2 both did thier job
well
> > and
> > > converted their prospects into customers. Now it is time to convert
those
> > > leads to Accounts.
> > >
> > > Now we have two seprate companies named IBM (which is a whole
different
> > > problem , eg, CRM would of course not allow you to have to Accounts
with
> > the
> > > exact same name so now you need to create some fake name for IBM #2).
> > >
> > > Are you starting to see the problem here?
> > >
> > > There is a major hierarchichal dbase structure / work flow flaw in CRM
> > that
> > > could be easily addressed by having another entity called Companies.
> > > Associated to comanies are Contacts. Companies can be Accounts,
Companies
> > can
> > > be Vendors, Contacts can be Leads, ect...ect...ect...
> > >
> > > Please reply to this thread. I want to get Microsfots attention..
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > "An" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I am not a Microsoft CRM Engineer but I'm not understand
> > > > why you said one Account to many Contact is impossible.
> > > >
> > > > When you create you Account, after you click on save
> > > > button, you have a new tab with Contact. From their, you
> > > > can create the number of contact you want.
> > > >
> > > > And from your Account form, you can link a primary
> > > > contact.
> > > >
> > > > And if you need to create many to many relationship, you
> > > > can use ISV like C360 and Salentica
> > > >
> > > > An
> > > >
> > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > >This one's for a Microsoft Engineer / Product rep to
> > > > answer. If anyone else
> > > > >has any input, please jump in...
> > > > >
> > > > >Q: Why wasn't MSCRM designed with a Company layer? This
> > > > is to say, why isn't
> > > > >there a singular relationship between a Company and all
> > > > of its employees
> > > > >(contacts). I have a collection of small businesses and
> > > > we've used every
> > > > >contact manager from ACT to Goldmine over the years and
> > > > I have come across
> > > > >this same problem with most early versions of all of
> > > > these.
> > > > >
> > > > >At this stage of evolution of "true" CRM though, it
> > > > seems to somewhat of an
> > > > >unforgivable design flaw not to have such a design.
> > > > There is no more natural
> > > > >relationship than the company organization. Why not
> > > > create the functionality
> > > > >to support it?
> > > > >
> > > > >I moved (3) of my businesses from Siebel to CRM and I
> > > > could not be happier -
> > > > >with the bold exception of this very obvious failure.
> > > > >
> > > > >Can somebody please reply and let me know if Microsoft
> > > > plans on adding this
> > > > >functionality, feels it's important or hjust thinks I'm
> > > > nuts.
> > > > >
> > > > >Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > >MikeG
> > > > >
> > > > >.
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >


0
Matt
9/30/2004 8:37:15 PM
Reply:

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