MS can't even get the release date right

Microsoft CRM has been a major disappointment in most every aspect.  Now, 
they've failed again with the CRM product by delaying the CRM 2005 release 
until 4th Quarter.  Some might say that this is a good thing so that it's a 
better product, but MS should have it more together than to announce a ship 
date they can't fulfill.  Very frustrating  that we have to continue on with 
this inferior version 1 product even longer.

-- 
Brandon Smith
IT Director
Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
http://www.presentationsdirect.com


0
Brandon
2/14/2005 8:49:14 PM
crm 35858 articles. 1 followers. Follow

21 Replies
955 Views

Similar Articles

[PageSpeed] 42

So what causes you to call MSCRM inferior?

Jake
www.mscrmexperts.com

"Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
news:Oh5EgatEFHA.4020@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Microsoft CRM has been a major disappointment in most every aspect.  Now, 
> they've failed again with the CRM product by delaying the CRM 2005 release 
> until 4th Quarter.  Some might say that this is a good thing so that it's 
> a better product, but MS should have it more together than to announce a 
> ship date they can't fulfill.  Very frustrating  that we have to continue 
> on with this inferior version 1 product even longer.
>
> -- 
> Brandon Smith
> IT Director
> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>
> 


0
Jake
2/14/2005 10:17:59 PM
I would be inclined to say Microsoft had their marketing wrong,
especially in the Asia/Pacific market.

Microsoft aimed CRM at small businesses up to medium sized, however if
you add up the amount of dollars required for full migration,
implementation, training and deployment of the product, there is no way
a small business can afford to put in such a customised system at a
decent cost.

So all these small businesses have gone out and purchased it, thinking
it was aimed at them, but then realising thy need to spend $120/hour to
get it installed, have good enough systems to run it (client and
server) then fork out for a ton of addon to do basic functionality like
activies view, and then pay $120/hr to get it customised, and then have
their staff trained and then pay for extras like Crystall Reports at
$600.

So for a large business sure, that is normal and ok and great, but
Microsoft should really consider what type of product they are putting
into what market and then sell it as that, with all the facts.

0
Biyoojok
2/15/2005 3:59:38 AM
What level of business would you say that Microsoft is targeting this 
marketing to?

I am more just trying to see what people's thoughts are,  I can say we 
really don't try to sell MSCRM to firms with less than 10 users.

A true CRM app in general is not a fit, they are better off going with 
something off the shelf.  Make no mistake MSCRM is not an off the shelf CRM 
system.

I would say it is much more like SalesLogix or Pivotal than ACT.

I have also said many times here that CRM is not something you do 
internally, internal IT departments are not well equipped in implement CRM 
systems.  Would you have your IT department (or IT "guy") try to implement 
your accounting system?


"Biyoojok" <biyoojok@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1108439978.739388.64870@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I would be inclined to say Microsoft had their marketing wrong,
> especially in the Asia/Pacific market.
>
> Microsoft aimed CRM at small businesses up to medium sized, however if
> you add up the amount of dollars required for full migration,
> implementation, training and deployment of the product, there is no way
> a small business can afford to put in such a customised system at a
> decent cost.
>
> So all these small businesses have gone out and purchased it, thinking
> it was aimed at them, but then realising thy need to spend $120/hour to
> get it installed, have good enough systems to run it (client and
> server) then fork out for a ton of addon to do basic functionality like
> activies view, and then pay $120/hr to get it customised, and then have
> their staff trained and then pay for extras like Crystall Reports at
> $600.
>
> So for a large business sure, that is normal and ok and great, but
> Microsoft should really consider what type of product they are putting
> into what market and then sell it as that, with all the facts.
> 


0
Jake
2/15/2005 4:21:50 AM
Our experience here suggests that it is most definitely inferior.
We're currently on our second CRM development team after every single
member of the first team resigned rather than work with CRM. Even the
current team have described working with CRM as a "miserable soul
destroying experience". CRM has its place but so far we haven't
found a customer who has that place for it.

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:17:59 -0600, "Jake Horn"
<jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote:

>So what causes you to call MSCRM inferior?
>
>Jake
>www.mscrmexperts.com
>
>"Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>news:Oh5EgatEFHA.4020@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> Microsoft CRM has been a major disappointment in most every aspect.  Now, 
>> they've failed again with the CRM product by delaying the CRM 2005 release 
>> until 4th Quarter.  Some might say that this is a good thing so that it's 
>> a better product, but MS should have it more together than to announce a 
>> ship date they can't fulfill.  Very frustrating  that we have to continue 
>> on with this inferior version 1 product even longer.

0
fullname
2/15/2005 9:27:31 AM
Where could I begin?  EVERY step of the way has been an ENORMOUS headache. 
I've even heard MS reps on the CRM team call it "crap" (direct quote).  So I 
won't bore you with details of every problem we've had, but from Integration 
to Migration to Customization to Ease of Use . . . It's a very bad product. 
It has potential and I hold hope that it will be a good product someday, but 
right now it's not at all a good product.  Our reps switched from ACT to 
this and they long for ACT back and its long list of features not found in 
CRM (common everyday stuff!).

-- 
Brandon Smith
IT Director
Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
http://www.presentationsdirect.com


"Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
news:ensoRIuEFHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> So what causes you to call MSCRM inferior?
>
> Jake
> www.mscrmexperts.com
>
> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
> news:Oh5EgatEFHA.4020@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> Microsoft CRM has been a major disappointment in most every aspect.  Now, 
>> they've failed again with the CRM product by delaying the CRM 2005 
>> release until 4th Quarter.  Some might say that this is a good thing so 
>> that it's a better product, but MS should have it more together than to 
>> announce a ship date they can't fulfill.  Very frustrating  that we have 
>> to continue on with this inferior version 1 product even longer.
>>
>> -- 
>> Brandon Smith
>> IT Director
>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>
>>
>
> 


0
Brandon
2/15/2005 5:21:45 PM
There is another view that says there is no such thing as an inferior or 
superior product; its up to the purchaser to carry out due diligence to 
ensure there is a fit between the product they are buying (incl associated 
services/add-ins warts and all) and their business requirements 
(functionality, integration and future proofing)

You can't please all the people all the time. You can please some of them 
all of the time. We certainly have some very satisfied CRM customers



"Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
news:e1cDNL4EFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Where could I begin?  EVERY step of the way has been an ENORMOUS headache. 
> I've even heard MS reps on the CRM team call it "crap" (direct quote).  So 
> I won't bore you with details of every problem we've had, but from 
> Integration to Migration to Customization to Ease of Use . . . It's a very 
> bad product. It has potential and I hold hope that it will be a good 
> product someday, but right now it's not at all a good product.  Our reps 
> switched from ACT to this and they long for ACT back and its long list of 
> features not found in CRM (common everyday stuff!).
>
> -- 
> Brandon Smith
> IT Director
> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>
>
> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
> news:ensoRIuEFHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> So what causes you to call MSCRM inferior?
>>
>> Jake
>> www.mscrmexperts.com
>>
>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>> news:Oh5EgatEFHA.4020@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>> Microsoft CRM has been a major disappointment in most every aspect. 
>>> Now, they've failed again with the CRM product by delaying the CRM 2005 
>>> release until 4th Quarter.  Some might say that this is a good thing so 
>>> that it's a better product, but MS should have it more together than to 
>>> announce a ship date they can't fulfill.  Very frustrating  that we have 
>>> to continue on with this inferior version 1 product even longer.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Brandon Smith
>>> IT Director
>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
Peter
2/15/2005 5:54:49 PM
I would not recommend any CRM system as a replacement for ACT, if your users 
need a tool to manage their day to day activities with customers.  If you 
need a tool that unites disparate customer systems, provides deep vertical 
functionality (with customization), and provides a place for users to manage 
customers throughout a total customer lifecycle, then CRM begins to answer 
that question.

The story is still there, it is classic do more with less, but it takes work 
to get there, and an understanding of what is valuable to your organization 
and what is not.  I have found through a long history of CRM (Microsoft CRM 
and others) implementations that CRM systems are not a tool that will 
automatically make you able to sell more, it does not do your sales managers 
job for you.

The functions of a contact manager like ACT and a CRM system like MSCRM, 
Pivotal, Onxy, and SalesLogix are totally different in what they strive to 
do.

It is unfortunate that your organization feels this way, perhaps it was poor 
expectation of value.   We have had many customers satisfied with what 
Microsoft CRM has done for their organizations, things ACT could never do 
for them.  Contact Management is about managing day to day activities, CRM 
is so much more, contact management is a portion, but usually not all that 
much.

I am sure we will get to where you would like to be, it will just take time.

Lastly, did you use a partner who knew what they were doing?

Again, I apologize that you have had such a headache, contact a partner, 
Microsoft has programs that might help you correct your issues or get you 
closer to what you want.  A good partner will know where to plug you in to 
get you what you need.



"Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
news:e1cDNL4EFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Where could I begin?  EVERY step of the way has been an ENORMOUS headache. 
> I've even heard MS reps on the CRM team call it "crap" (direct quote).  So 
> I won't bore you with details of every problem we've had, but from 
> Integration to Migration to Customization to Ease of Use . . . It's a very 
> bad product. It has potential and I hold hope that it will be a good 
> product someday, but right now it's not at all a good product.  Our reps 
> switched from ACT to this and they long for ACT back and its long list of 
> features not found in CRM (common everyday stuff!).
>
> -- 
> Brandon Smith
> IT Director
> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>
>
> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
> news:ensoRIuEFHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> So what causes you to call MSCRM inferior?
>>
>> Jake
>> www.mscrmexperts.com
>>
>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>> news:Oh5EgatEFHA.4020@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>> Microsoft CRM has been a major disappointment in most every aspect. 
>>> Now, they've failed again with the CRM product by delaying the CRM 2005 
>>> release until 4th Quarter.  Some might say that this is a good thing so 
>>> that it's a better product, but MS should have it more together than to 
>>> announce a ship date they can't fulfill.  Very frustrating  that we have 
>>> to continue on with this inferior version 1 product even longer.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Brandon Smith
>>> IT Director
>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
Jake
2/15/2005 5:58:39 PM
That's a rather simplistic view to say that it's the customer's fault and 
there are no bad products!  The product is BAD and I'm not alone on this. 
As I've said, Microsoft has even admitted it.  Why do you think the CRM 2005 
product was delayed until 4th quarter?   Because it wasn't GOOD enough (i.e. 
still bad).

-- 
Brandon Smith
IT Director
Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
http://www.presentationsdirect.com


"Peter Lynch" <peter.lynch@optevia.com.SPAMFREE> wrote in message 
news:ODhzyd4EFHA.3376@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> There is another view that says there is no such thing as an inferior or 
> superior product; its up to the purchaser to carry out due diligence to 
> ensure there is a fit between the product they are buying (incl associated 
> services/add-ins warts and all) and their business requirements 
> (functionality, integration and future proofing)
>
> You can't please all the people all the time. You can please some of them 
> all of the time. We certainly have some very satisfied CRM customers
>
>
>
> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
> news:e1cDNL4EFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> Where could I begin?  EVERY step of the way has been an ENORMOUS 
>> headache. I've even heard MS reps on the CRM team call it "crap" (direct 
>> quote).  So I won't bore you with details of every problem we've had, but 
>> from Integration to Migration to Customization to Ease of Use . . . It's 
>> a very bad product. It has potential and I hold hope that it will be a 
>> good product someday, but right now it's not at all a good product.  Our 
>> reps switched from ACT to this and they long for ACT back and its long 
>> list of features not found in CRM (common everyday stuff!).
>>
>> -- 
>> Brandon Smith
>> IT Director
>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>
>>
>> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
>> news:ensoRIuEFHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>> So what causes you to call MSCRM inferior?
>>>
>>> Jake
>>> www.mscrmexperts.com
>>>
>>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:Oh5EgatEFHA.4020@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>> Microsoft CRM has been a major disappointment in most every aspect. 
>>>> Now, they've failed again with the CRM product by delaying the CRM 2005 
>>>> release until 4th Quarter.  Some might say that this is a good thing so 
>>>> that it's a better product, but MS should have it more together than to 
>>>> announce a ship date they can't fulfill.  Very frustrating  that we 
>>>> have to continue on with this inferior version 1 product even longer.
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Brandon Smith
>>>> IT Director
>>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
Brandon
2/15/2005 6:11:56 PM
I mention one little thing about ACT and you take that and run with it 
because it fits whatever point your after.  There are MANY, MANY reasons why 
this is a bad product . . . it's inability to meet up to ACT was just one of 
them.  And BTW, the new version of CRM does some things to bring CRM up to 
the ACT standard or exceed it (such as notes).  You don't think MS CRM looks 
at ACT as competition?  Please.

As far as Partners . . . I've dealt with multiple partners.  None of them 
are nearly as competent on this as they should be and in most cases I've 
known more about the product than they have.  All they want to do is charge 
a fortune to do nothing.   And also, because of all the problems we've had, 
we were assigned, a special escalated support rep (at Microsoft's expense) 
who worked with us on a daily basis to make sure that our installation was 
successful.  It took them months and they ran into headache after headache 
as well . . . and were stumped on many things.  They even had to do custom 
setups for VERY COMMON requirements (which they admitted were flawed).  So 
if the top support reps at MS can't get it installed and setup easily  . . . 
why do you think some partner would have "made it all better"?

-- 
Brandon Smith
IT Director
Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
http://www.presentationsdirect.com


"Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
news:uOqIBc4EFHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>I would not recommend any CRM system as a replacement for ACT, if your 
>users need a tool to manage their day to day activities with customers.  If 
>you need a tool that unites disparate customer systems, provides deep 
>vertical functionality (with customization), and provides a place for users 
>to manage customers throughout a total customer lifecycle, then CRM begins 
>to answer that question.
>
> The story is still there, it is classic do more with less, but it takes 
> work to get there, and an understanding of what is valuable to your 
> organization and what is not.  I have found through a long history of CRM 
> (Microsoft CRM and others) implementations that CRM systems are not a tool 
> that will automatically make you able to sell more, it does not do your 
> sales managers job for you.
>
> The functions of a contact manager like ACT and a CRM system like MSCRM, 
> Pivotal, Onxy, and SalesLogix are totally different in what they strive to 
> do.
>
> It is unfortunate that your organization feels this way, perhaps it was 
> poor expectation of value.   We have had many customers satisfied with 
> what Microsoft CRM has done for their organizations, things ACT could 
> never do for them.  Contact Management is about managing day to day 
> activities, CRM is so much more, contact management is a portion, but 
> usually not all that much.
>
> I am sure we will get to where you would like to be, it will just take 
> time.
>
> Lastly, did you use a partner who knew what they were doing?
>
> Again, I apologize that you have had such a headache, contact a partner, 
> Microsoft has programs that might help you correct your issues or get you 
> closer to what you want.  A good partner will know where to plug you in to 
> get you what you need.
>
>
>
> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
> news:e1cDNL4EFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> Where could I begin?  EVERY step of the way has been an ENORMOUS 
>> headache. I've even heard MS reps on the CRM team call it "crap" (direct 
>> quote).  So I won't bore you with details of every problem we've had, but 
>> from Integration to Migration to Customization to Ease of Use . . . It's 
>> a very bad product. It has potential and I hold hope that it will be a 
>> good product someday, but right now it's not at all a good product.  Our 
>> reps switched from ACT to this and they long for ACT back and its long 
>> list of features not found in CRM (common everyday stuff!).
>>
>> -- 
>> Brandon Smith
>> IT Director
>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>
>>
>> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
>> news:ensoRIuEFHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>> So what causes you to call MSCRM inferior?
>>>
>>> Jake
>>> www.mscrmexperts.com
>>>
>>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:Oh5EgatEFHA.4020@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>> Microsoft CRM has been a major disappointment in most every aspect. 
>>>> Now, they've failed again with the CRM product by delaying the CRM 2005 
>>>> release until 4th Quarter.  Some might say that this is a good thing so 
>>>> that it's a better product, but MS should have it more together than to 
>>>> announce a ship date they can't fulfill.  Very frustrating  that we 
>>>> have to continue on with this inferior version 1 product even longer.
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Brandon Smith
>>>> IT Director
>>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
Brandon
2/15/2005 6:18:34 PM
The function of the partner and the function of a support rep are totally 
different.  Support reps cannot write custom functionality to fill the gaps 
your particular organization have with a CRM solution.

ACT is a good product and a former employer of mine, but it isn't CRM, 
unless your company has 5 sales reps.

I just take issue with you saying that the product I have spent the last 
year of my life dedicated to, and have been able to make work for many 
customers is "crap".

Does it have problems?  Sure.  There are certain scenarios we stear clear 
of.  But much more than that, we have made it work because we as a partner 
and our customers looked for acheivable value and did the proper DD.

"Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
news:eiD68q4EFHA.3648@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>I mention one little thing about ACT and you take that and run with it 
>because it fits whatever point your after.  There are MANY, MANY reasons 
>why this is a bad product . . . it's inability to meet up to ACT was just 
>one of them.  And BTW, the new version of CRM does some things to bring CRM 
>up to the ACT standard or exceed it (such as notes).  You don't think MS 
>CRM looks at ACT as competition?  Please.
>
> As far as Partners . . . I've dealt with multiple partners.  None of them 
> are nearly as competent on this as they should be and in most cases I've 
> known more about the product than they have.  All they want to do is 
> charge a fortune to do nothing.   And also, because of all the problems 
> we've had, we were assigned, a special escalated support rep (at 
> Microsoft's expense) who worked with us on a daily basis to make sure that 
> our installation was successful.  It took them months and they ran into 
> headache after headache as well . . . and were stumped on many things. 
> They even had to do custom setups for VERY COMMON requirements (which they 
> admitted were flawed).  So if the top support reps at MS can't get it 
> installed and setup easily  . . . why do you think some partner would have 
> "made it all better"?
>
> -- 
> Brandon Smith
> IT Director
> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>
>
> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
> news:uOqIBc4EFHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>I would not recommend any CRM system as a replacement for ACT, if your 
>>users need a tool to manage their day to day activities with customers. 
>>If you need a tool that unites disparate customer systems, provides deep 
>>vertical functionality (with customization), and provides a place for 
>>users to manage customers throughout a total customer lifecycle, then CRM 
>>begins to answer that question.
>>
>> The story is still there, it is classic do more with less, but it takes 
>> work to get there, and an understanding of what is valuable to your 
>> organization and what is not.  I have found through a long history of CRM 
>> (Microsoft CRM and others) implementations that CRM systems are not a 
>> tool that will automatically make you able to sell more, it does not do 
>> your sales managers job for you.
>>
>> The functions of a contact manager like ACT and a CRM system like MSCRM, 
>> Pivotal, Onxy, and SalesLogix are totally different in what they strive 
>> to do.
>>
>> It is unfortunate that your organization feels this way, perhaps it was 
>> poor expectation of value.   We have had many customers satisfied with 
>> what Microsoft CRM has done for their organizations, things ACT could 
>> never do for them.  Contact Management is about managing day to day 
>> activities, CRM is so much more, contact management is a portion, but 
>> usually not all that much.
>>
>> I am sure we will get to where you would like to be, it will just take 
>> time.
>>
>> Lastly, did you use a partner who knew what they were doing?
>>
>> Again, I apologize that you have had such a headache, contact a partner, 
>> Microsoft has programs that might help you correct your issues or get you 
>> closer to what you want.  A good partner will know where to plug you in 
>> to get you what you need.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>> news:e1cDNL4EFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>> Where could I begin?  EVERY step of the way has been an ENORMOUS 
>>> headache. I've even heard MS reps on the CRM team call it "crap" (direct 
>>> quote).  So I won't bore you with details of every problem we've had, 
>>> but from Integration to Migration to Customization to Ease of Use . . . 
>>> It's a very bad product. It has potential and I hold hope that it will 
>>> be a good product someday, but right now it's not at all a good product. 
>>> Our reps switched from ACT to this and they long for ACT back and its 
>>> long list of features not found in CRM (common everyday stuff!).
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Brandon Smith
>>> IT Director
>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>
>>>
>>> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:ensoRIuEFHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>> So what causes you to call MSCRM inferior?
>>>>
>>>> Jake
>>>> www.mscrmexperts.com
>>>>
>>>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>>> news:Oh5EgatEFHA.4020@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Microsoft CRM has been a major disappointment in most every aspect. 
>>>>> Now, they've failed again with the CRM product by delaying the CRM 
>>>>> 2005 release until 4th Quarter.  Some might say that this is a good 
>>>>> thing so that it's a better product, but MS should have it more 
>>>>> together than to announce a ship date they can't fulfill.  Very 
>>>>> frustrating  that we have to continue on with this inferior version 1 
>>>>> product even longer.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Brandon Smith
>>>>> IT Director
>>>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
Jake
2/15/2005 6:47:05 PM
I didn't say it was crap . . . I was quoting a LEAD MS CRM product manager 
(at a meeting in St. Louis).  And I think it's crazy that I would NEED to 
get a Partner to fill the gaps if I don't want to use one.
-- 
Brandon Smith
IT Director
Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
http://www.presentationsdirect.com


"Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
news:%23eAcF34EFHA.2564@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> The function of the partner and the function of a support rep are totally 
> different.  Support reps cannot write custom functionality to fill the 
> gaps your particular organization have with a CRM solution.
>
> ACT is a good product and a former employer of mine, but it isn't CRM, 
> unless your company has 5 sales reps.
>
> I just take issue with you saying that the product I have spent the last 
> year of my life dedicated to, and have been able to make work for many 
> customers is "crap".
>
> Does it have problems?  Sure.  There are certain scenarios we stear clear 
> of.  But much more than that, we have made it work because we as a partner 
> and our customers looked for acheivable value and did the proper DD.
>
> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
> news:eiD68q4EFHA.3648@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>I mention one little thing about ACT and you take that and run with it 
>>because it fits whatever point your after.  There are MANY, MANY reasons 
>>why this is a bad product . . . it's inability to meet up to ACT was just 
>>one of them.  And BTW, the new version of CRM does some things to bring 
>>CRM up to the ACT standard or exceed it (such as notes).  You don't think 
>>MS CRM looks at ACT as competition?  Please.
>>
>> As far as Partners . . . I've dealt with multiple partners.  None of them 
>> are nearly as competent on this as they should be and in most cases I've 
>> known more about the product than they have.  All they want to do is 
>> charge a fortune to do nothing.   And also, because of all the problems 
>> we've had, we were assigned, a special escalated support rep (at 
>> Microsoft's expense) who worked with us on a daily basis to make sure 
>> that our installation was successful.  It took them months and they ran 
>> into headache after headache as well . . . and were stumped on many 
>> things. They even had to do custom setups for VERY COMMON requirements 
>> (which they admitted were flawed).  So if the top support reps at MS 
>> can't get it installed and setup easily  . . . why do you think some 
>> partner would have "made it all better"?
>>
>> -- 
>> Brandon Smith
>> IT Director
>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>
>>
>> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
>> news:uOqIBc4EFHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>I would not recommend any CRM system as a replacement for ACT, if your 
>>>users need a tool to manage their day to day activities with customers. 
>>>If you need a tool that unites disparate customer systems, provides deep 
>>>vertical functionality (with customization), and provides a place for 
>>>users to manage customers throughout a total customer lifecycle, then CRM 
>>>begins to answer that question.
>>>
>>> The story is still there, it is classic do more with less, but it takes 
>>> work to get there, and an understanding of what is valuable to your 
>>> organization and what is not.  I have found through a long history of 
>>> CRM (Microsoft CRM and others) implementations that CRM systems are not 
>>> a tool that will automatically make you able to sell more, it does not 
>>> do your sales managers job for you.
>>>
>>> The functions of a contact manager like ACT and a CRM system like MSCRM, 
>>> Pivotal, Onxy, and SalesLogix are totally different in what they strive 
>>> to do.
>>>
>>> It is unfortunate that your organization feels this way, perhaps it was 
>>> poor expectation of value.   We have had many customers satisfied with 
>>> what Microsoft CRM has done for their organizations, things ACT could 
>>> never do for them.  Contact Management is about managing day to day 
>>> activities, CRM is so much more, contact management is a portion, but 
>>> usually not all that much.
>>>
>>> I am sure we will get to where you would like to be, it will just take 
>>> time.
>>>
>>> Lastly, did you use a partner who knew what they were doing?
>>>
>>> Again, I apologize that you have had such a headache, contact a partner, 
>>> Microsoft has programs that might help you correct your issues or get 
>>> you closer to what you want.  A good partner will know where to plug you 
>>> in to get you what you need.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:e1cDNL4EFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>> Where could I begin?  EVERY step of the way has been an ENORMOUS 
>>>> headache. I've even heard MS reps on the CRM team call it "crap" 
>>>> (direct quote).  So I won't bore you with details of every problem 
>>>> we've had, but from Integration to Migration to Customization to Ease 
>>>> of Use . . . It's a very bad product. It has potential and I hold hope 
>>>> that it will be a good product someday, but right now it's not at all a 
>>>> good product. Our reps switched from ACT to this and they long for ACT 
>>>> back and its long list of features not found in CRM (common everyday 
>>>> stuff!).
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Brandon Smith
>>>> IT Director
>>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>>> news:ensoRIuEFHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>> So what causes you to call MSCRM inferior?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jake
>>>>> www.mscrmexperts.com
>>>>>
>>>>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:Oh5EgatEFHA.4020@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Microsoft CRM has been a major disappointment in most every aspect. 
>>>>>> Now, they've failed again with the CRM product by delaying the CRM 
>>>>>> 2005 release until 4th Quarter.  Some might say that this is a good 
>>>>>> thing so that it's a better product, but MS should have it more 
>>>>>> together than to announce a ship date they can't fulfill.  Very 
>>>>>> frustrating  that we have to continue on with this inferior version 1 
>>>>>> product even longer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Brandon Smith
>>>>>> IT Director
>>>>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>>>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
Brandon
2/15/2005 6:56:31 PM
This is something I don't actually agree with Microsoft on.

I have been doing CRM implementation for the last 5 years at least.  One 
thing I have come to realize is the "do-it-yourself" concept is a recipe for 
disaster.

Most other CRM vendors (SalesLogix, Pivotal, etc.) don't sell without a 
partner.  Microsoft is unique in that you can get the product without 
working with a VAR.

Jake

"Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
news:OOtCKA5EFHA.4024@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>I didn't say it was crap . . . I was quoting a LEAD MS CRM product manager 
>(at a meeting in St. Louis).  And I think it's crazy that I would NEED to 
>get a Partner to fill the gaps if I don't want to use one.
> -- 
> Brandon Smith
> IT Director
> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>
>
> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
> news:%23eAcF34EFHA.2564@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> The function of the partner and the function of a support rep are totally 
>> different.  Support reps cannot write custom functionality to fill the 
>> gaps your particular organization have with a CRM solution.
>>
>> ACT is a good product and a former employer of mine, but it isn't CRM, 
>> unless your company has 5 sales reps.
>>
>> I just take issue with you saying that the product I have spent the last 
>> year of my life dedicated to, and have been able to make work for many 
>> customers is "crap".
>>
>> Does it have problems?  Sure.  There are certain scenarios we stear clear 
>> of.  But much more than that, we have made it work because we as a 
>> partner and our customers looked for acheivable value and did the proper 
>> DD.
>>
>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>> news:eiD68q4EFHA.3648@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>I mention one little thing about ACT and you take that and run with it 
>>>because it fits whatever point your after.  There are MANY, MANY reasons 
>>>why this is a bad product . . . it's inability to meet up to ACT was just 
>>>one of them.  And BTW, the new version of CRM does some things to bring 
>>>CRM up to the ACT standard or exceed it (such as notes).  You don't think 
>>>MS CRM looks at ACT as competition?  Please.
>>>
>>> As far as Partners . . . I've dealt with multiple partners.  None of 
>>> them are nearly as competent on this as they should be and in most cases 
>>> I've known more about the product than they have.  All they want to do 
>>> is charge a fortune to do nothing.   And also, because of all the 
>>> problems we've had, we were assigned, a special escalated support rep 
>>> (at Microsoft's expense) who worked with us on a daily basis to make 
>>> sure that our installation was successful.  It took them months and they 
>>> ran into headache after headache as well . . . and were stumped on many 
>>> things. They even had to do custom setups for VERY COMMON requirements 
>>> (which they admitted were flawed).  So if the top support reps at MS 
>>> can't get it installed and setup easily  . . . why do you think some 
>>> partner would have "made it all better"?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Brandon Smith
>>> IT Director
>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>
>>>
>>> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:uOqIBc4EFHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>I would not recommend any CRM system as a replacement for ACT, if your 
>>>>users need a tool to manage their day to day activities with customers. 
>>>>If you need a tool that unites disparate customer systems, provides deep 
>>>>vertical functionality (with customization), and provides a place for 
>>>>users to manage customers throughout a total customer lifecycle, then 
>>>>CRM begins to answer that question.
>>>>
>>>> The story is still there, it is classic do more with less, but it takes 
>>>> work to get there, and an understanding of what is valuable to your 
>>>> organization and what is not.  I have found through a long history of 
>>>> CRM (Microsoft CRM and others) implementations that CRM systems are not 
>>>> a tool that will automatically make you able to sell more, it does not 
>>>> do your sales managers job for you.
>>>>
>>>> The functions of a contact manager like ACT and a CRM system like 
>>>> MSCRM, Pivotal, Onxy, and SalesLogix are totally different in what they 
>>>> strive to do.
>>>>
>>>> It is unfortunate that your organization feels this way, perhaps it was 
>>>> poor expectation of value.   We have had many customers satisfied with 
>>>> what Microsoft CRM has done for their organizations, things ACT could 
>>>> never do for them.  Contact Management is about managing day to day 
>>>> activities, CRM is so much more, contact management is a portion, but 
>>>> usually not all that much.
>>>>
>>>> I am sure we will get to where you would like to be, it will just take 
>>>> time.
>>>>
>>>> Lastly, did you use a partner who knew what they were doing?
>>>>
>>>> Again, I apologize that you have had such a headache, contact a 
>>>> partner, Microsoft has programs that might help you correct your issues 
>>>> or get you closer to what you want.  A good partner will know where to 
>>>> plug you in to get you what you need.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>>> news:e1cDNL4EFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Where could I begin?  EVERY step of the way has been an ENORMOUS 
>>>>> headache. I've even heard MS reps on the CRM team call it "crap" 
>>>>> (direct quote).  So I won't bore you with details of every problem 
>>>>> we've had, but from Integration to Migration to Customization to Ease 
>>>>> of Use . . . It's a very bad product. It has potential and I hold hope 
>>>>> that it will be a good product someday, but right now it's not at all 
>>>>> a good product. Our reps switched from ACT to this and they long for 
>>>>> ACT back and its long list of features not found in CRM (common 
>>>>> everyday stuff!).
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Brandon Smith
>>>>> IT Director
>>>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:ensoRIuEFHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> So what causes you to call MSCRM inferior?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jake
>>>>>> www.mscrmexperts.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:Oh5EgatEFHA.4020@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>> Microsoft CRM has been a major disappointment in most every aspect. 
>>>>>>> Now, they've failed again with the CRM product by delaying the CRM 
>>>>>>> 2005 release until 4th Quarter.  Some might say that this is a good 
>>>>>>> thing so that it's a better product, but MS should have it more 
>>>>>>> together than to announce a ship date they can't fulfill.  Very 
>>>>>>> frustrating  that we have to continue on with this inferior version 
>>>>>>> 1 product even longer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Brandon Smith
>>>>>>> IT Director
>>>>>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>>>>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
Jake
2/15/2005 7:15:02 PM
Technologically speaking, a basic CRM install (no customizations, workflow, 
etc.)  should be able to be completed without partners.  At that point, I 
see partners as being helpful for customizations, streamlining processes, 
etc.  And I think this is also the route MS is going with v. 2.  MS said 
they want to move partners "up the ladder" so their not involved with a 
petty install, but with higher level tweaking.

-- 
Brandon Smith
IT Director
Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
http://www.presentationsdirect.com


"Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
news:ub9WuG5EFHA.228@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> This is something I don't actually agree with Microsoft on.
>
> I have been doing CRM implementation for the last 5 years at least.  One 
> thing I have come to realize is the "do-it-yourself" concept is a recipe 
> for disaster.
>
> Most other CRM vendors (SalesLogix, Pivotal, etc.) don't sell without a 
> partner.  Microsoft is unique in that you can get the product without 
> working with a VAR.
>
> Jake
>
> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
> news:OOtCKA5EFHA.4024@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>I didn't say it was crap . . . I was quoting a LEAD MS CRM product manager 
>>(at a meeting in St. Louis).  And I think it's crazy that I would NEED to 
>>get a Partner to fill the gaps if I don't want to use one.
>> -- 
>> Brandon Smith
>> IT Director
>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>
>>
>> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
>> news:%23eAcF34EFHA.2564@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>> The function of the partner and the function of a support rep are 
>>> totally different.  Support reps cannot write custom functionality to 
>>> fill the gaps your particular organization have with a CRM solution.
>>>
>>> ACT is a good product and a former employer of mine, but it isn't CRM, 
>>> unless your company has 5 sales reps.
>>>
>>> I just take issue with you saying that the product I have spent the last 
>>> year of my life dedicated to, and have been able to make work for many 
>>> customers is "crap".
>>>
>>> Does it have problems?  Sure.  There are certain scenarios we stear 
>>> clear of.  But much more than that, we have made it work because we as a 
>>> partner and our customers looked for acheivable value and did the proper 
>>> DD.
>>>
>>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:eiD68q4EFHA.3648@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>>I mention one little thing about ACT and you take that and run with it 
>>>>because it fits whatever point your after.  There are MANY, MANY reasons 
>>>>why this is a bad product . . . it's inability to meet up to ACT was 
>>>>just one of them.  And BTW, the new version of CRM does some things to 
>>>>bring CRM up to the ACT standard or exceed it (such as notes).  You 
>>>>don't think MS CRM looks at ACT as competition?  Please.
>>>>
>>>> As far as Partners . . . I've dealt with multiple partners.  None of 
>>>> them are nearly as competent on this as they should be and in most 
>>>> cases I've known more about the product than they have.  All they want 
>>>> to do is charge a fortune to do nothing.   And also, because of all the 
>>>> problems we've had, we were assigned, a special escalated support rep 
>>>> (at Microsoft's expense) who worked with us on a daily basis to make 
>>>> sure that our installation was successful.  It took them months and 
>>>> they ran into headache after headache as well . . . and were stumped on 
>>>> many things. They even had to do custom setups for VERY COMMON 
>>>> requirements (which they admitted were flawed).  So if the top support 
>>>> reps at MS can't get it installed and setup easily  . . . why do you 
>>>> think some partner would have "made it all better"?
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Brandon Smith
>>>> IT Director
>>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>>> news:uOqIBc4EFHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>I would not recommend any CRM system as a replacement for ACT, if your 
>>>>>users need a tool to manage their day to day activities with customers. 
>>>>>If you need a tool that unites disparate customer systems, provides 
>>>>>deep vertical functionality (with customization), and provides a place 
>>>>>for users to manage customers throughout a total customer lifecycle, 
>>>>>then CRM begins to answer that question.
>>>>>
>>>>> The story is still there, it is classic do more with less, but it 
>>>>> takes work to get there, and an understanding of what is valuable to 
>>>>> your organization and what is not.  I have found through a long 
>>>>> history of CRM (Microsoft CRM and others) implementations that CRM 
>>>>> systems are not a tool that will automatically make you able to sell 
>>>>> more, it does not do your sales managers job for you.
>>>>>
>>>>> The functions of a contact manager like ACT and a CRM system like 
>>>>> MSCRM, Pivotal, Onxy, and SalesLogix are totally different in what 
>>>>> they strive to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is unfortunate that your organization feels this way, perhaps it 
>>>>> was poor expectation of value.   We have had many customers satisfied 
>>>>> with what Microsoft CRM has done for their organizations, things ACT 
>>>>> could never do for them.  Contact Management is about managing day to 
>>>>> day activities, CRM is so much more, contact management is a portion, 
>>>>> but usually not all that much.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am sure we will get to where you would like to be, it will just take 
>>>>> time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lastly, did you use a partner who knew what they were doing?
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, I apologize that you have had such a headache, contact a 
>>>>> partner, Microsoft has programs that might help you correct your 
>>>>> issues or get you closer to what you want.  A good partner will know 
>>>>> where to plug you in to get you what you need.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:e1cDNL4EFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Where could I begin?  EVERY step of the way has been an ENORMOUS 
>>>>>> headache. I've even heard MS reps on the CRM team call it "crap" 
>>>>>> (direct quote).  So I won't bore you with details of every problem 
>>>>>> we've had, but from Integration to Migration to Customization to Ease 
>>>>>> of Use . . . It's a very bad product. It has potential and I hold 
>>>>>> hope that it will be a good product someday, but right now it's not 
>>>>>> at all a good product. Our reps switched from ACT to this and they 
>>>>>> long for ACT back and its long list of features not found in CRM 
>>>>>> (common everyday stuff!).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Brandon Smith
>>>>>> IT Director
>>>>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>>>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:ensoRIuEFHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>> So what causes you to call MSCRM inferior?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jake
>>>>>>> www.mscrmexperts.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:Oh5EgatEFHA.4020@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>> Microsoft CRM has been a major disappointment in most every aspect. 
>>>>>>>> Now, they've failed again with the CRM product by delaying the CRM 
>>>>>>>> 2005 release until 4th Quarter.  Some might say that this is a good 
>>>>>>>> thing so that it's a better product, but MS should have it more 
>>>>>>>> together than to announce a ship date they can't fulfill.  Very 
>>>>>>>> frustrating  that we have to continue on with this inferior version 
>>>>>>>> 1 product even longer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> Brandon Smith
>>>>>>>> IT Director
>>>>>>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>>>>>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
Brandon
2/15/2005 10:48:54 PM
Like I said, I don't think this will work.  But basic CRM doesn't work for 
most companies.

Lets think about it, accounting is dominated by GAPP, email is a pretty 
simple task to automate, a spreadsheet is a spreadsheet, etc.

Everything out there has pretty bound requirements, then enters CRM.  Every 
company is different in how they deal with customers, that is how most 
companies try to differentiate themselves.  We live and work in a customer 
centric world, not a product world, so companies have to be better than the 
competitor.

CRM is much that way, it is a tool that helps organization define and 
implement customer centric strategic advantage.

I think the only mixed message that Microsoft has given to customers is to 
make them feel like implementing CRM is like implementing word or Exchange. 
Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Jake

"Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
news:em1HAC7EFHA.2828@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Technologically speaking, a basic CRM install (no customizations, 
> workflow, etc.)  should be able to be completed without partners.  At that 
> point, I see partners as being helpful for customizations, streamlining 
> processes, etc.  And I think this is also the route MS is going with v. 2. 
> MS said they want to move partners "up the ladder" so their not involved 
> with a petty install, but with higher level tweaking.
>
> -- 
> Brandon Smith
> IT Director
> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>
>
> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
> news:ub9WuG5EFHA.228@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> This is something I don't actually agree with Microsoft on.
>>
>> I have been doing CRM implementation for the last 5 years at least.  One 
>> thing I have come to realize is the "do-it-yourself" concept is a recipe 
>> for disaster.
>>
>> Most other CRM vendors (SalesLogix, Pivotal, etc.) don't sell without a 
>> partner.  Microsoft is unique in that you can get the product without 
>> working with a VAR.
>>
>> Jake
>>
>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>> news:OOtCKA5EFHA.4024@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>I didn't say it was crap . . . I was quoting a LEAD MS CRM product 
>>>manager (at a meeting in St. Louis).  And I think it's crazy that I would 
>>>NEED to get a Partner to fill the gaps if I don't want to use one.
>>> -- 
>>> Brandon Smith
>>> IT Director
>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>
>>>
>>> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:%23eAcF34EFHA.2564@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>> The function of the partner and the function of a support rep are 
>>>> totally different.  Support reps cannot write custom functionality to 
>>>> fill the gaps your particular organization have with a CRM solution.
>>>>
>>>> ACT is a good product and a former employer of mine, but it isn't CRM, 
>>>> unless your company has 5 sales reps.
>>>>
>>>> I just take issue with you saying that the product I have spent the 
>>>> last year of my life dedicated to, and have been able to make work for 
>>>> many customers is "crap".
>>>>
>>>> Does it have problems?  Sure.  There are certain scenarios we stear 
>>>> clear of.  But much more than that, we have made it work because we as 
>>>> a partner and our customers looked for acheivable value and did the 
>>>> proper DD.
>>>>
>>>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>>> news:eiD68q4EFHA.3648@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>>>I mention one little thing about ACT and you take that and run with it 
>>>>>because it fits whatever point your after.  There are MANY, MANY 
>>>>>reasons why this is a bad product . . . it's inability to meet up to 
>>>>>ACT was just one of them.  And BTW, the new version of CRM does some 
>>>>>things to bring CRM up to the ACT standard or exceed it (such as 
>>>>>notes).  You don't think MS CRM looks at ACT as competition?  Please.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as Partners . . . I've dealt with multiple partners.  None of 
>>>>> them are nearly as competent on this as they should be and in most 
>>>>> cases I've known more about the product than they have.  All they want 
>>>>> to do is charge a fortune to do nothing.   And also, because of all 
>>>>> the problems we've had, we were assigned, a special escalated support 
>>>>> rep (at Microsoft's expense) who worked with us on a daily basis to 
>>>>> make sure that our installation was successful.  It took them months 
>>>>> and they ran into headache after headache as well . . . and were 
>>>>> stumped on many things. They even had to do custom setups for VERY 
>>>>> COMMON requirements (which they admitted were flawed).  So if the top 
>>>>> support reps at MS can't get it installed and setup easily  . . . why 
>>>>> do you think some partner would have "made it all better"?
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Brandon Smith
>>>>> IT Director
>>>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:uOqIBc4EFHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>I would not recommend any CRM system as a replacement for ACT, if your 
>>>>>>users need a tool to manage their day to day activities with 
>>>>>>customers. If you need a tool that unites disparate customer systems, 
>>>>>>provides deep vertical functionality (with customization), and 
>>>>>>provides a place for users to manage customers throughout a total 
>>>>>>customer lifecycle, then CRM begins to answer that question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The story is still there, it is classic do more with less, but it 
>>>>>> takes work to get there, and an understanding of what is valuable to 
>>>>>> your organization and what is not.  I have found through a long 
>>>>>> history of CRM (Microsoft CRM and others) implementations that CRM 
>>>>>> systems are not a tool that will automatically make you able to sell 
>>>>>> more, it does not do your sales managers job for you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The functions of a contact manager like ACT and a CRM system like 
>>>>>> MSCRM, Pivotal, Onxy, and SalesLogix are totally different in what 
>>>>>> they strive to do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is unfortunate that your organization feels this way, perhaps it 
>>>>>> was poor expectation of value.   We have had many customers satisfied 
>>>>>> with what Microsoft CRM has done for their organizations, things ACT 
>>>>>> could never do for them.  Contact Management is about managing day to 
>>>>>> day activities, CRM is so much more, contact management is a portion, 
>>>>>> but usually not all that much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am sure we will get to where you would like to be, it will just 
>>>>>> take time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lastly, did you use a partner who knew what they were doing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Again, I apologize that you have had such a headache, contact a 
>>>>>> partner, Microsoft has programs that might help you correct your 
>>>>>> issues or get you closer to what you want.  A good partner will know 
>>>>>> where to plug you in to get you what you need.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:e1cDNL4EFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>> Where could I begin?  EVERY step of the way has been an ENORMOUS 
>>>>>>> headache. I've even heard MS reps on the CRM team call it "crap" 
>>>>>>> (direct quote).  So I won't bore you with details of every problem 
>>>>>>> we've had, but from Integration to Migration to Customization to 
>>>>>>> Ease of Use . . . It's a very bad product. It has potential and I 
>>>>>>> hold hope that it will be a good product someday, but right now it's 
>>>>>>> not at all a good product. Our reps switched from ACT to this and 
>>>>>>> they long for ACT back and its long list of features not found in 
>>>>>>> CRM (common everyday stuff!).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Brandon Smith
>>>>>>> IT Director
>>>>>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>>>>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:ensoRIuEFHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>> So what causes you to call MSCRM inferior?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jake
>>>>>>>> www.mscrmexperts.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
>>>>>>>> news:Oh5EgatEFHA.4020@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>>> Microsoft CRM has been a major disappointment in most every 
>>>>>>>>> aspect. Now, they've failed again with the CRM product by delaying 
>>>>>>>>> the CRM 2005 release until 4th Quarter.  Some might say that this 
>>>>>>>>> is a good thing so that it's a better product, but MS should have 
>>>>>>>>> it more together than to announce a ship date they can't fulfill. 
>>>>>>>>> Very frustrating  that we have to continue on with this inferior 
>>>>>>>>> version 1 product even longer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>> Brandon Smith
>>>>>>>>> IT Director
>>>>>>>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
>>>>>>>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> 


0
Jake
2/16/2005 12:09:33 AM
I think the product is GREAT for a mid sized business who can afford to
implement and pay for such customisations and implmentations. I have no
doubt many of you have really satisfied clients... But is the end, how
much if you honestly add it all up did that come to?

I recently did an interview with a company who was researching feedback
on Microsoft, contracted by Microsoft Australia. After talking to the
guy, he said, you wouldn't believe the amount of small businesses who
have been sold this product (often by a partner), and then simply were
not advised of such costs involved to implement (maybe only in
Australia is it $120/hour?). So the product is sitting on their selves
doing nothing. I think it is these people who have been "hurt" by
MIcrosoft, as their marketing has suggested it can be aimed at such a
small business, when really it should not be.

It is all well that we on here know what should and shouldn't be done,
but a small business with say 10 - 15 employees where they probaly
don't even have an IT guy, and a partner sells them on the product,
only to find out the "True" cost of it down the line. When I had a
meeting with my partner here, I certainly wasn't advised of all the
extensivness of the customisations needed. They really just wanted to
sell it. Of course, I didn't mind so much, but I can see how other
small businesses would.

0
Biyoojok
2/16/2005 12:22:58 AM
I can see your point...

We don't specialize in selling software.  We more concentrate on the "Value 
Added" part of the name Value Added Reseller.  It is a shame, but I think 
the channel is dominated by "Resellers" and not VARs in the sense of 
providing service.  I hope we can change that.

Jake

"Biyoojok" <biyoojok@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1108513378.397076.49720@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I think the product is GREAT for a mid sized business who can afford to
> implement and pay for such customisations and implmentations. I have no
> doubt many of you have really satisfied clients... But is the end, how
> much if you honestly add it all up did that come to?
>
> I recently did an interview with a company who was researching feedback
> on Microsoft, contracted by Microsoft Australia. After talking to the
> guy, he said, you wouldn't believe the amount of small businesses who
> have been sold this product (often by a partner), and then simply were
> not advised of such costs involved to implement (maybe only in
> Australia is it $120/hour?). So the product is sitting on their selves
> doing nothing. I think it is these people who have been "hurt" by
> MIcrosoft, as their marketing has suggested it can be aimed at such a
> small business, when really it should not be.
>
> It is all well that we on here know what should and shouldn't be done,
> but a small business with say 10 - 15 employees where they probaly
> don't even have an IT guy, and a partner sells them on the product,
> only to find out the "True" cost of it down the line. When I had a
> meeting with my partner here, I certainly wasn't advised of all the
> extensivness of the customisations needed. They really just wanted to
> sell it. Of course, I didn't mind so much, but I can see how other
> small businesses would.
> 


0
Jake
2/16/2005 12:47:46 AM
We switched from Act! to CRM a couple of months ago and we are VERY
disappointed.

There are upsides to the product: managing contacts and accounts,
opportuniteis, oredrs, and so on, BUT:

One of the major PROs to going with MS CRM was the (promissed) seamless
integration with outlook. Most of our problems are exactly with that.
Integration is far from seamless. Some emails get lost on the way,
others get duplicated, u can't realy work only in one system (outlook
or CRM), or send from the crm system to internal outlook groups, etc.

We are now waiting anxiously for the next release to see what it will
bring, but... :-/

Rakefet Shohat
RepliWeb, Inc.
http://www.repliweb.com

0
rakefet
2/16/2005 12:47:01 PM
We switched from Act! to CRM a couple of months ago and we are VERY
disappointed.

There are upsides to the product: managing contacts and accounts,
opportuniteis, oredrs, and so on, BUT:

One of the major PROs to going with MS CRM was the (promissed) seamless
integration with outlook. Most of our problems are exactly with that.
Integration is far from seamless. Some emails get lost on the way,
others get duplicated, u can't realy work only in one system (outlook
or CRM), or send from the crm system to internal outlook groups, etc.

We are now waiting anxiously for the next release to see what it will
bring, but... :-/

Rakefet Shohat
RepliWeb, Inc.
http://www.repliweb.com

0
rakefet
2/16/2005 12:47:23 PM
Biyoojok

Whereabouts are you located?  We have a fixed price implementation package 
for Ms CRM for 5,000AUD.  This includes business consultancy implementation 
and user training for a group of up to 10 users.  

For a company who does not have any of the software or server hardware, we 
have another fixed price package for 25,000AUD.

For the functionality that this gives, and its ROI both of these are very 
competitive deals.

Please get in touch with me directly if you would kike more information.

Thanks

Gill
www.opsis.com.au
gill@opsis.com.au




"Biyoojok" wrote:

> I would be inclined to say Microsoft had their marketing wrong,
> especially in the Asia/Pacific market.
> 
> Microsoft aimed CRM at small businesses up to medium sized, however if
> you add up the amount of dollars required for full migration,
> implementation, training and deployment of the product, there is no way
> a small business can afford to put in such a customised system at a
> decent cost.
> 
> So all these small businesses have gone out and purchased it, thinking
> it was aimed at them, but then realising thy need to spend $120/hour to
> get it installed, have good enough systems to run it (client and
> server) then fork out for a ton of addon to do basic functionality like
> activies view, and then pay $120/hr to get it customised, and then have
> their staff trained and then pay for extras like Crystall Reports at
> $600.
> 
> So for a large business sure, that is normal and ok and great, but
> Microsoft should really consider what type of product they are putting
> into what market and then sell it as that, with all the facts.
> 
> 
0
Utf
2/19/2005 2:55:01 AM
I just had to write to agree with Jake's comment that "implementing CRM is 
like implementing word or Exchange" is so far from the truth.

Thanks

Gill

"Jake Horn" wrote:

> Like I said, I don't think this will work.  But basic CRM doesn't work for 
> most companies.
> 
> Lets think about it, accounting is dominated by GAPP, email is a pretty 
> simple task to automate, a spreadsheet is a spreadsheet, etc.
> 
> Everything out there has pretty bound requirements, then enters CRM.  Every 
> company is different in how they deal with customers, that is how most 
> companies try to differentiate themselves.  We live and work in a customer 
> centric world, not a product world, so companies have to be better than the 
> competitor.
> 
> CRM is much that way, it is a tool that helps organization define and 
> implement customer centric strategic advantage.
> 
> I think the only mixed message that Microsoft has given to customers is to 
> make them feel like implementing CRM is like implementing word or Exchange. 
> Nothing could be farther from the truth.
> 
> Jake
> 
> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
> news:em1HAC7EFHA.2828@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > Technologically speaking, a basic CRM install (no customizations, 
> > workflow, etc.)  should be able to be completed without partners.  At that 
> > point, I see partners as being helpful for customizations, streamlining 
> > processes, etc.  And I think this is also the route MS is going with v. 2. 
> > MS said they want to move partners "up the ladder" so their not involved 
> > with a petty install, but with higher level tweaking.
> >
> > -- 
> > Brandon Smith
> > IT Director
> > Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
> > http://www.presentationsdirect.com
> >
> >
> > "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
> > news:ub9WuG5EFHA.228@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> >> This is something I don't actually agree with Microsoft on.
> >>
> >> I have been doing CRM implementation for the last 5 years at least.  One 
> >> thing I have come to realize is the "do-it-yourself" concept is a recipe 
> >> for disaster.
> >>
> >> Most other CRM vendors (SalesLogix, Pivotal, etc.) don't sell without a 
> >> partner.  Microsoft is unique in that you can get the product without 
> >> working with a VAR.
> >>
> >> Jake
> >>
> >> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
> >> news:OOtCKA5EFHA.4024@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> >>>I didn't say it was crap . . . I was quoting a LEAD MS CRM product 
> >>>manager (at a meeting in St. Louis).  And I think it's crazy that I would 
> >>>NEED to get a Partner to fill the gaps if I don't want to use one.
> >>> -- 
> >>> Brandon Smith
> >>> IT Director
> >>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
> >>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
> >>> news:%23eAcF34EFHA.2564@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >>>> The function of the partner and the function of a support rep are 
> >>>> totally different.  Support reps cannot write custom functionality to 
> >>>> fill the gaps your particular organization have with a CRM solution.
> >>>>
> >>>> ACT is a good product and a former employer of mine, but it isn't CRM, 
> >>>> unless your company has 5 sales reps.
> >>>>
> >>>> I just take issue with you saying that the product I have spent the 
> >>>> last year of my life dedicated to, and have been able to make work for 
> >>>> many customers is "crap".
> >>>>
> >>>> Does it have problems?  Sure.  There are certain scenarios we stear 
> >>>> clear of.  But much more than that, we have made it work because we as 
> >>>> a partner and our customers looked for acheivable value and did the 
> >>>> proper DD.
> >>>>
> >>>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
> >>>> news:eiD68q4EFHA.3648@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>I mention one little thing about ACT and you take that and run with it 
> >>>>>because it fits whatever point your after.  There are MANY, MANY 
> >>>>>reasons why this is a bad product . . . it's inability to meet up to 
> >>>>>ACT was just one of them.  And BTW, the new version of CRM does some 
> >>>>>things to bring CRM up to the ACT standard or exceed it (such as 
> >>>>>notes).  You don't think MS CRM looks at ACT as competition?  Please.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As far as Partners . . . I've dealt with multiple partners.  None of 
> >>>>> them are nearly as competent on this as they should be and in most 
> >>>>> cases I've known more about the product than they have.  All they want 
> >>>>> to do is charge a fortune to do nothing.   And also, because of all 
> >>>>> the problems we've had, we were assigned, a special escalated support 
> >>>>> rep (at Microsoft's expense) who worked with us on a daily basis to 
> >>>>> make sure that our installation was successful.  It took them months 
> >>>>> and they ran into headache after headache as well . . . and were 
> >>>>> stumped on many things. They even had to do custom setups for VERY 
> >>>>> COMMON requirements (which they admitted were flawed).  So if the top 
> >>>>> support reps at MS can't get it installed and setup easily  . . . why 
> >>>>> do you think some partner would have "made it all better"?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -- 
> >>>>> Brandon Smith
> >>>>> IT Director
> >>>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
> >>>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
> >>>>> news:uOqIBc4EFHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>>I would not recommend any CRM system as a replacement for ACT, if your 
> >>>>>>users need a tool to manage their day to day activities with 
> >>>>>>customers. If you need a tool that unites disparate customer systems, 
> >>>>>>provides deep vertical functionality (with customization), and 
> >>>>>>provides a place for users to manage customers throughout a total 
> >>>>>>customer lifecycle, then CRM begins to answer that question.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The story is still there, it is classic do more with less, but it 
> >>>>>> takes work to get there, and an understanding of what is valuable to 
> >>>>>> your organization and what is not.  I have found through a long 
> >>>>>> history of CRM (Microsoft CRM and others) implementations that CRM 
> >>>>>> systems are not a tool that will automatically make you able to sell 
> >>>>>> more, it does not do your sales managers job for you.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The functions of a contact manager like ACT and a CRM system like 
> >>>>>> MSCRM, Pivotal, Onxy, and SalesLogix are totally different in what 
> >>>>>> they strive to do.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It is unfortunate that your organization feels this way, perhaps it 
> >>>>>> was poor expectation of value.   We have had many customers satisfied 
> >>>>>> with what Microsoft CRM has done for their organizations, things ACT 
> >>>>>> could never do for them.  Contact Management is about managing day to 
> >>>>>> day activities, CRM is so much more, contact management is a portion, 
> >>>>>> but usually not all that much.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am sure we will get to where you would like to be, it will just 
> >>>>>> take time.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Lastly, did you use a partner who knew what they were doing?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Again, I apologize that you have had such a headache, contact a 
> >>>>>> partner, Microsoft has programs that might help you correct your 
> >>>>>> issues or get you closer to what you want.  A good partner will know 
> >>>>>> where to plug you in to get you what you need.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
> >>>>>> news:e1cDNL4EFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>>> Where could I begin?  EVERY step of the way has been an ENORMOUS 
> >>>>>>> headache. I've even heard MS reps on the CRM team call it "crap" 
> >>>>>>> (direct quote).  So I won't bore you with details of every problem 
> >>>>>>> we've had, but from Integration to Migration to Customization to 
> >>>>>>> Ease of Use . . . It's a very bad product. It has potential and I 
> >>>>>>> hold hope that it will be a good product someday, but right now it's 
> >>>>>>> not at all a good product. Our reps switched from ACT to this and 
> >>>>>>> they long for ACT back and its long list of features not found in 
> >>>>>>> CRM (common everyday stuff!).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -- 
> >>>>>>> Brandon Smith
> >>>>>>> IT Director
> >>>>>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
> >>>>>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "Jake Horn" <jhorn_remove_@mscrmexperts_nospam.com> wrote in message 
> >>>>>>> news:ensoRIuEFHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>>>> So what causes you to call MSCRM inferior?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Jake
> >>>>>>>> www.mscrmexperts.com
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "Brandon" <bsmith@presentationsdirect.nospam.com> wrote in message 
> >>>>>>>> news:Oh5EgatEFHA.4020@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>>>>> Microsoft CRM has been a major disappointment in most every 
> >>>>>>>>> aspect. Now, they've failed again with the CRM product by delaying 
> >>>>>>>>> the CRM 2005 release until 4th Quarter.  Some might say that this 
> >>>>>>>>> is a good thing so that it's a better product, but MS should have 
> >>>>>>>>> it more together than to announce a ship date they can't fulfill. 
> >>>>>>>>> Very frustrating  that we have to continue on with this inferior 
> >>>>>>>>> version 1 product even longer.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -- 
> >>>>>>>>> Brandon Smith
> >>>>>>>>> IT Director
> >>>>>>>>> Presentations Direct - Specialized Office Equipment & Supplies
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.presentationsdirect.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
0
Utf
2/19/2005 3:01:04 AM
I think the issue is that there's a disconnect between CRM-as-a-technology 
and CRM-as-a-business-process. Taking the latter view means that 
implementing any CRM is an expensive, on-going, time-consuming process 
because the goal is to get exactly the right business process in place and 
CRM-as-a-technology is just a very small part of that. Those people 
comparing CRM implementations to Exchange, Seibel, SAP, or any other 
technology are missing the point (and yes those people might be MSFT 
employees, I'm not speaking for them, I'm speaking for myself). Certainly 
installing a CRM technology in a business environment is fairly inexpensive, 
doesn't involve much input from the customer or the end user, and can be 
done with a few clicks. That's the wrong viewpoint though because it means 
you're trying to introduce business change through technology using a push 
approach when you should implement change as a pull.

Anyway, I'll step off my soapbox for now.

-- 
Mj Miller
Technical Lead
Microsoft CRM

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.


0
Mj
2/21/2005 12:10:44 AM
Reply:

Similar Artilces:

HQ Reports should allow multiply coloms by store or date
Reports should allow for a data sheet view. I would like to see a report with all items down the left side of my report. Colom headings for total item instock and a quantity in stock at each location. Would be nice to see this for all kinds of reports, Sales by dollar amount, Sales by item, ect. Basicly a spread sheet report that the detail can be seen side beside. ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not...

MS Outlook 2007
I am running MS Outlook 2007 on a Vista home lap top. When trying to delete files (or folders) in the Deleted Items folder, I get a message that "the Folder is full" and the items remain. I "right click" on Deleted Items, select "Empty 'Deleted Items' Folder", and I get the usueal warning msg that states "Are you sure you want to permanently delete all the items and subfolders from the 'Deleted Items' folder?" I click on "Yes". I then get a second warning msg that says "The folder is full." The ite...

Use of MS Dynamics CRM in Utility Billing
Hello Friendz, I was wondering if we can easily use Microsoft Dynamics CRM 3.0 for 'Utility Billing System and Print Presentment'. This also involves use of handheld devices for reading meters and bill presentment. In case you know about a better solution for this requirement, please share that with me. -- Regards, Dave Banerjee Cell: 0060 17331 4676 | email: IfThenElseEndIf@msn.com | IfThenElseEndIf@GMail.com That depends on what you mean by "easily" ;-) CRM out of the box will provide a great, flexible platform to quickly develop a robust business solution. Fro...

MS Office 97 to MS Office 2007
I have been running Office 97 pro on Windows XP because I do not want to loose the shortcut bar that came with 97. Thing is that I have been thinking about installing the 2007 version of Office that I have had but never installed yet for above reasons. Question is can I install the 2007 version over the 97 version and have it update the programs but keep the shortcut bar?? I know there are probably other shortcut bars or whatever out there but as I asked I would rather keep the 97 one if possible. TIA Microsoft has several Knowledge Base articles on running multiple...

MS Exange connection
It deals with Outlook 2003, running under Win XP home: A friend has two ISPs, one with standard POP and SMTP servers, no problem there. The second is a remote MS Exchange server. He connects to both via Internet using ADSL connection. Question: how to configure the Exchange server connection such that it remembers his ID and PW? I could not find anything under just about any thinkable tab in Outlook, email accounts, etc. Any help will be greatly appreciated. -- JanAdam ...

Difference between MS EPM and MS Projects
What is the difference between MS EPM and MS projects Is it just project server and sharepoint added to MS projects together called MS EPM? Yes. EPM is Enterprise Project Management. Microsoft's solution is Project Professional plus Project Server which in turn uses SharePoint technology. -- Rod Gill Microsoft MVP for Project - http://www.project-systems.co.nz Author of the only book on Project VBA, see: http://www.projectvbabook.com "Project Mgt Noob" <Project Mgt Noob @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:A565E3DF-A7FC-4D2A-B2F1...

Calculating days and dates
I need to calculate the number of working days (ie Monday to Friday) from the date entered in cell D4 (22/07/2005). This needs to update each day in cell E4. I can do this not based on working days, by entering =DATEDIF(D4,TODAY(),"d") but where in the formula do I reference it to working days or network days? HELP! -- HDV ------------------------------------------------------------------------ HDV's Profile: http://www.excelforum.com/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=26299 View this thread: http://www.excelforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=395788 You can use the ...

How do I do word count in MS Publisher?
Mike, Publisher doesn't have a word count; the work-around wound be manually count the words or you could try copy the text and paste into Word. -- Don - Publisher 2000� Vancouver, USA "Mike Finn" <Mike Finn@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:9EBF3083-D7EC-46E9-ADA2-E4616499399E@microsoft.com... > Why not just do a "Edit Story in Microsoft Word" instead of copy and paste? -- JoAnn Paules MVP Microsoft [Publisher] Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies" "Don Schmidt" <Don Engineer@PNB.Retired_...

MS CRM Certification question
Hi all, I have a question regarding the CRM certification? What, if any, certifications are there available with MS CRM? Is there anything like CRM Professional? Have I earned any certification if I passed the Applications Professional exam? T.I.A -- Kuba Skalbania [MCAD] ...

Get Start date of Week number and Year
I’d like to build the following expression in my query GetStartWeekNumber(DatePart("ww",[EnteredDate]), Year([EnteredDate])) So if EnteredDate = 11/3/2009 the function would return 11/1/2009 But GetStartWeekNumber does not exist as an Access Built-In Function. Is there another way to do this as an expression in a query? I’m not familiar with creating my own functions. Thanks. That would depend on how you define the start of the week... One option would be to get the day-of-week number of the date (in my system/setup, Monday is day 2), then subtract one less than that...

MS Money 2005 Basics
I am new to MS Money after many years with Quicken. Money help offline and online, seems woefully short of detailed explanations o user scenarios. . Searching help for "Epay" yields nothing. Ca someone either direct me to a better help area or answer this In Bills what is the difference between Epay, APay, and Direct debit I see Apay is how i use the bill pay service of my bank. Is direc debit just my manual entry? What then is Epay? What might "Other payment type then be used for? Thanks The difference between them is this Epay is for electronic bill pay. You must have Bi...

Sent items downloading problem in MS office outlook 2007
Hi all, In my client pc's i have configured the Microsoft office outlook 2007 after the configuration inbox mails are visible in inbox but sent items and other folders are not getting downloaded, my mail server is squirrel mail ,so please let me know the reason . POP3 or IMAP? "xpmate" <sreekanth.chn@gmail.com> wrote in message news:41cb29fe-c615-44b3-aa86-ea3eb607e2a5@g22g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > Hi all, > > In my client pc's i have configured the Microsoft office outlook > 2007 after the configuration inbox mails are visible in in...

MS Access
Why doesn't MS support MS Access for Macintosh? Since I work in an educational environment that's mostly PC with MS Office begin the main suite, it would only be logical that since the PC version of MS Office contains MS Access for database entry, the Mac version of MS Office would also have MS Access. In article <BE09D66D.5FB8%redclawx@hotmail.com>, Red Claw <redclawx@hotmail.com> wrote: > Why doesn't MS support MS Access for Macintosh? Since I work in an > educational environment that's mostly PC with MS Office begin the main > suite, it would only ...

Adding 2 days to the greater of three dates
Hi all, I am hoping someone can help me with the following problem. Columns A,B, and C have three different dates in them (i.e. Column A - 23/02/05, column B - 21/02/05 and column C - 22/02/05). I would like a formula to add two days to the greater date (i.e. column A) and therefore column D should equal 25/02/05. I thank you all in advance. Regards Mas Hi Mas, =MAX(A1:C1)+2 -- Kind Regards, Niek Otten Microsoft MVP - Excel "Maddoktor" <maddoktor@clinic.com> wrote in message news:%23SVqzXaQFHA.2132@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl... > Hi all, > > I am hoping s...

Starting MS Outlook on startup
How can I start Outlook on startup (XP) and keep it running in the back? >-----Original Message----- >How can I start Outlook on startup (XP) and keep it running in the back? > > >. > All you need to do is move the Outlook program icon to the startup group in XP. >-----Original Message----- >How can I start Outlook on startup (XP) and keep it running in the back? > > >. >Double click My Computer, go into the C:\Documents and Settings\User\Start Menu\Programs\Startup Place an Outlook shortcut into this folder and it will automatically startup when...

Restarting MS Money with a "correction" switch
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C3DDDC.D92AA4A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I currently use version 10 - 2002 Deluxe, and I need to startup MS Money = with a correction switch that I hope will correct some problems that I = have been having, but I can't seem to locate the post that talks about doing = this. Is it "msmoney.exe /s"? --=20 Russell (if replying, replace nospam with rpottharst) ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C3DDDC.D92AA4A0 Content-Type: text/html; c...

Alternative to Ms sql server 2005 express edition
Hello Everyone, Our server hosting providers are saying that our web site is running slow because we are using ms sql server 2005 express edition which is a free edition and had only a capacity of handling up to 4 GB data. And our database which we are currently using is now having more than 4.5 GB. Hence they recommended us to go for a paid one that is specialized edition workgroup and gave us the following link http://www.microsoft.com/sqlserver/2008/en/us/editions.aspx to go through the comparison. The hosting providers says that it will be around 4500 rupees per month for ...

MS Word Problem
Hello people following problem: in a MFC MDI application one also shall Being displayed Word97 document. And but not in an external program but as a one prayed OLE object. I have managed this. The following problem lets itself be seen now: if I maximize/reduce the main window the visible range of the Word document shall adapt the visible doesn't become however if I maximize the object frame of the OLE object Range of the document changed but Word zoom lens the document. To this the one prayed window is placed so for this these force Word-Scrollbalken are no longer visible. I can ...

I get updates with EMPTY information before installation, why?
Lately I have been getting some updates that -- prior to installation -- doesn't seem to have any information associated with them, not even a title. See this screenshot: http://www.pvv.org/~fredj/winupdate-20100122-a-empty.jpg It is only when I install the update that I get to know what it contains. Surely Windows Update is not supposed to work like this. What is the problem? Any information appreciated :-) * Fred Fred Johansen wrote: > Lately I have been getting some updates that -- prior to > installation -- doesn't seem to have any information associated...

Have office for 95
if so, how? Thanks! No. Not unless you have a very generous friend who is willing to buy you a copy. Tom Wickerath Microsoft Access MVP http://www.accessmvp.com/TWickerath/ http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/expert_contributors.html __________________________________________ "bg" wrote: > Have office for 95 - can I get 2007 for my new pc for free? > if so, how? Thanks! ...

MS Money Planner file
Hello I have a problem in MS Money 2004. Each time I open money I get the following error: "A file needed to run the Planner is either missing or corrupted. To resolve this problem, re-install money and then re open your money file". I have tried doing this but still keep getting the same error. Can anyone please advise? Thanks and a Happy New Year to all you kind souls out there. Dave Hello Glyn That seems to work for me. Thanks for taking the time and trouble to reply. Much appreciated. Hope you have a happy & prosperous New Year. Regards Dave "Glyn Simpso...

Business Contact Manager for MS Outlook 2003
I just installed MS Office @003 Standart Upgrade and want to use the Business Contact Manager functionality. However, I cannot find it. The "Help" feature tells me I should have Business Contact Manager as an add-in but I cannot find it nor do I want to download the version with Micrrosoft Exchange Server (I think). Can anyone tell me how to get Business Contact Manager for MS Outlook 2003? Thanks, Jim BCM is available as part of Office 2003 Professional Edition, Small Business Edition, or Prefessional Enterprise Edition (requires Volume License from Microsoft). As far as I k...

ms outlook: unable to find default email folder
on opening outlook it says;UNABLE TO OPEN DEFAULT FOLDERS. THE REQUESTED INFORMATION COULD OT BE FOUND IN THE ACTIVE PROFILE. On clicking ok it says; WOULD YOU LIKE TO OPEN YOUR DEFAULT FILE SYSYTEM FOLDER INSTEAD. Please help whats causing this. thanks "=?Utf-8?B?c2hheWFuOTk=?=" <shayan99@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in news:CEC2AC86-64EF-4684-A6EA-C3D3AEC3A9BC@microsoft.com: > on opening outlook it says;UNABLE TO OPEN DEFAULT FOLDERS. THE REQUESTED > INFORMATION COULD OT BE FOUND IN THE ACTIVE PROFILE. > On clicking ok it says; WOULD YOU LIKE TO OPEN YOUR ...

Convert MS publisher to MS Word
Hello ALL, Could anyone plz tell me how to convert a publisher file to MS Word, while retaing all text, images, formatting etc. Help will be greatly appreciated. Regards, Asim Hi Asim (alatif@ultimus.com), in the Microsoft� newsgroups you posted: || Could anyone plz tell me how to convert a publisher file || to MS Word, while retaing all text, images, formatting etc. You can't. The only thing you can do is copy/paste or drag/drop between the two applications and adjust formatting accordingly. -- Brian Kvalheim Microsoft Office Publisher MVP Official Publisher MVP Site: http://www....

X Y Scatter Chart
Hi, Attempting to create an X Y scatter chart with dates on the X axis, however, when the chart is displayed the dates start at 1/1/1900 instead of 01/15/08. I understand that Excel stores dates and times as a number representing the number of days since 1900-Jan-0, plus a fractional portion of a 24 hour day. However, is there a work around to this issue? Regards, Moms The problem is that Excel doesn't know what dates you want, so it is using 1, 2, 3, etc as its X values. This is caused by two things: 1. There is no X data range defined for the chart 2. The X data range contains te...