Multiple id problem

Hello. I have an instance that I'd like some input-suggestions on if anyone 
would be so kind. We have a vendor table with each vendor ID being unique. 
One problem is, some vendor numbers have changed so there is a current # and 
an old #. Because of the multiple vendor #s the primary key is an auto #. The 
main dilemma I'm having with the design is that at least one vendor (maybe a 
few more but I'm not sure yet) has two old numbers and one new/current #. 
There are hundreds upon hundreds of vendors, and I'm wondering if a third 
vendor # field is the way to go. It seems like a cumbersome solution, 
especially since it's (apparently) only one vendor. On the other hand, 
although it's unlikely, the situation might come up again and I want to be 
ready for it even if it's 5 years down the road. 

I'm grateful for any ideas.
0
Utf
4/5/2010 3:16:01 PM
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Unless I'm missing something,  The short answer is that the ID number should 
never change for a given vendor. Yet you imply that you have changed vendor 
id# for a given vendor.    And so the short simplistic answer would be to 
stop doing that, and, where you have already done it, pick one as your main 
#, and go to any duplicates and mark the  "double entered by  mistake.  

I'm sure that there is another aspect to this that you need to tell us about 
(= why did you changed ID #s?) in which case the answer might be different. 

Hope that helps a little. 
0
Utf
4/5/2010 3:36:14 PM
You haven't described what you need to do...

If you just need to keep VendorA connected to his/her "jobs/items/...", use 
the AutonumberID, not whatever "name/number" the vendor uses for him/herself 
this week.

If you need to keep a history so you know that last year VendorA went by 
"12345" but this year is going by "98765", you'll need to keep a history 
table...

More info, please...

Regards

Jeff Boyce
Microsoft Access MVP

-- 
Disclaimer: This author may have received products and services mentioned
in this post. Mention and/or description of a product or service herein
does not constitute endorsement thereof.

Any code or pseudocode included in this post is offered "as is", with no
guarantee as to suitability.

You can thank the FTC of the USA for making this disclaimer
possible/necessary.

"Bird Byte" <BirdByte@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:6ECC65AC-0A3F-48E7-9DC4-46B850E519B6@microsoft.com...
> Hello. I have an instance that I'd like some input-suggestions on if 
> anyone
> would be so kind. We have a vendor table with each vendor ID being unique.
> One problem is, some vendor numbers have changed so there is a current # 
> and
> an old #. Because of the multiple vendor #s the primary key is an auto #. 
> The
> main dilemma I'm having with the design is that at least one vendor (maybe 
> a
> few more but I'm not sure yet) has two old numbers and one new/current #.
> There are hundreds upon hundreds of vendors, and I'm wondering if a third
> vendor # field is the way to go. It seems like a cumbersome solution,
> especially since it's (apparently) only one vendor. On the other hand,
> although it's unlikely, the situation might come up again and I want to be
> ready for it even if it's 5 years down the road.
>
> I'm grateful for any ideas. 


0
Jeff
4/5/2010 3:54:30 PM
>> you'll need to keep a history table...
I would call it an 'Alias table.'   I think a self-join relation would do 
it.  Add a field for AKA.   Old record gets an AKA entry to new primary key 
field ID. 

   UNTESTED     UNTESTED  -- May not have IIF statement setup right ---
SELECT IIF([tblVendor_1].[AKA] Is Null,  [tblVendor].[ID],  
[tblVendor].[AKA]) AS Vendor, etc, ...
FROM [tblVendor] LEFT JOIN  [tblVendor_1] ON  [tblVendor].[ID] =  
[tblVendor_1].[AKA]
WHERE ........;

-- 
Build a little, test a little.


"Jeff Boyce" wrote:

> You haven't described what you need to do...
> 
> If you just need to keep VendorA connected to his/her "jobs/items/...", use 
> the AutonumberID, not whatever "name/number" the vendor uses for him/herself 
> this week.
> 
> If you need to keep a history so you know that last year VendorA went by 
> "12345" but this year is going by "98765", you'll need to keep a history 
> table...
> 
> More info, please...
> 
> Regards
> 
> Jeff Boyce
> Microsoft Access MVP
> 
> -- 
> Disclaimer: This author may have received products and services mentioned
> in this post. Mention and/or description of a product or service herein
> does not constitute endorsement thereof.
> 
> Any code or pseudocode included in this post is offered "as is", with no
> guarantee as to suitability.
> 
> You can thank the FTC of the USA for making this disclaimer
> possible/necessary.
> 
> "Bird Byte" <BirdByte@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
> news:6ECC65AC-0A3F-48E7-9DC4-46B850E519B6@microsoft.com...
> > Hello. I have an instance that I'd like some input-suggestions on if 
> > anyone
> > would be so kind. We have a vendor table with each vendor ID being unique.
> > One problem is, some vendor numbers have changed so there is a current # 
> > and
> > an old #. Because of the multiple vendor #s the primary key is an auto #. 
> > The
> > main dilemma I'm having with the design is that at least one vendor (maybe 
> > a
> > few more but I'm not sure yet) has two old numbers and one new/current #.
> > There are hundreds upon hundreds of vendors, and I'm wondering if a third
> > vendor # field is the way to go. It seems like a cumbersome solution,
> > especially since it's (apparently) only one vendor. On the other hand,
> > although it's unlikely, the situation might come up again and I want to be
> > ready for it even if it's 5 years down the road.
> >
> > I'm grateful for any ideas. 
> 
> 
> .
> 
0
Utf
4/5/2010 8:46:17 PM
Is the vendor number different than the primary key?  If so, is there a
reason you can't just change the second (presumably visible) vendor number
without creating a new record, or do you need to maintain the old vendor
number for historical reasons?

Bird Byte wrote:
>Hello. I have an instance that I'd like some input-suggestions on if anyone 
>would be so kind. We have a vendor table with each vendor ID being unique. 
>One problem is, some vendor numbers have changed so there is a current # and 
>an old #. Because of the multiple vendor #s the primary key is an auto #. The 
>main dilemma I'm having with the design is that at least one vendor (maybe a 
>few more but I'm not sure yet) has two old numbers and one new/current #. 
>There are hundreds upon hundreds of vendors, and I'm wondering if a third 
>vendor # field is the way to go. It seems like a cumbersome solution, 
>especially since it's (apparently) only one vendor. On the other hand, 
>although it's unlikely, the situation might come up again and I want to be 
>ready for it even if it's 5 years down the road. 
>
>I'm grateful for any ideas.

-- 
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/access-tablesdbdesign/201004/1

0
BruceM
4/8/2010 12:00:37 PM
Yes, the vendor id is different from the primary key. It is an autonum. The 
old vendor numbers have to be maintained for historical reasons - all 
transactions (up to two years worth) linked to them need to be accessable for 
queries.  

"BruceM via AccessMonster.com" wrote:

> Is the vendor number different than the primary key?  If so, is there a
> reason you can't just change the second (presumably visible) vendor number
> without creating a new record, or do you need to maintain the old vendor
> number for historical reasons?
> 
> Bird Byte wrote:
> >Hello. I have an instance that I'd like some input-suggestions on if anyone 
> >would be so kind. We have a vendor table with each vendor ID being unique. 
> >One problem is, some vendor numbers have changed so there is a current # and 
> >an old #. Because of the multiple vendor #s the primary key is an auto #. The 
> >main dilemma I'm having with the design is that at least one vendor (maybe a 
> >few more but I'm not sure yet) has two old numbers and one new/current #. 
> >There are hundreds upon hundreds of vendors, and I'm wondering if a third 
> >vendor # field is the way to go. It seems like a cumbersome solution, 
> >especially since it's (apparently) only one vendor. On the other hand, 
> >although it's unlikely, the situation might come up again and I want to be 
> >ready for it even if it's 5 years down the road. 
> >
> >I'm grateful for any ideas.
> 
> -- 
> Message posted via AccessMonster.com
> http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/access-tablesdbdesign/201004/1
> 
> .
> 
0
Utf
4/12/2010 3:44:01 PM
Are you saying that Vendor ID rather than the autonumber field is the linking
field?

Bird Byte wrote:
>Yes, the vendor id is different from the primary key. It is an autonum. The 
>old vendor numbers have to be maintained for historical reasons - all 
>transactions (up to two years worth) linked to them need to be accessable for 
>queries.  
>
>> Is the vendor number different than the primary key?  If so, is there a
>> reason you can't just change the second (presumably visible) vendor number
>[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>> >
>> >I'm grateful for any ideas.

-- 
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com

0
BruceM
4/12/2010 7:03:07 PM
Sorry for not being clear. The primary key is an auto number, and the linking 
field. Lets say Vendor_ID for the PK (autonumber), and VendorNumber for the 
number assigned to the vendor. 

"BruceM via AccessMonster.com" wrote:

> Are you saying that Vendor ID rather than the autonumber field is the linking
> field?
> 
> Bird Byte wrote:
> >Yes, the vendor id is different from the primary key. It is an autonum. The 
> >old vendor numbers have to be maintained for historical reasons - all 
> >transactions (up to two years worth) linked to them need to be accessable for 
> >queries.  
> >
> >> Is the vendor number different than the primary key?  If so, is there a
> >> reason you can't just change the second (presumably visible) vendor number
> >[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> >> >
> >> >I'm grateful for any ideas.
> 
> -- 
> Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com
> 
> .
> 
0
Utf
4/12/2010 9:39:01 PM
If Vendor_ID is the linking field in the table tblMain (to give it a name for
convenience) , linked tables will be properly associated with tblMain.  If
VendorNumber changes it won't affect the links, which don't involve
VendorNumber.  Neither will changes to Address or other information affect
the links.

If you need to maintain old address information, VendorNumbers, etc. it would
be best to use related tables.  Otherwise if you create a new vendor record
in tblMain for a current vendor (because of VendorNumber change, for instance)
it will be necessary to update all of the links.  You can use append queries
to create new related tables for VendorNumber, etc.  I'm not sure I
understand the situation, so I won't go into a lot of detail, but I have
successfully repaired (normalized) some of my early projects (and buckets of
data provided by others), and may be able to steer you in the right direction
if needed.


Bird Byte wrote:
>Sorry for not being clear. The primary key is an auto number, and the linking 
>field. Lets say Vendor_ID for the PK (autonumber), and VendorNumber for the 
>number assigned to the vendor. 
>
>> Are you saying that Vendor ID rather than the autonumber field is the linking
>> field?
>[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>> >> >
>> >> >I'm grateful for any ideas.

-- 
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/access-tablesdbdesign/201004/1

0
BruceM
4/13/2010 11:34:34 AM
Thanks Bruce. Vendor_ID is the linking field. As of now, the fields are:
Vendor_ID (primary key auto number)
VendorNumber (number we assign to the vendor, and one vendor may have two 
VendorNumbers)
VendorAddress
VendorPhone
VendorCurrent (yes/no field to flag VendorNumber being used)

To achieve normalization, are you suggesting creating a related table that 
holds VendorNumber in a table separate from the other (static) vendor 
information? 


"BruceM via AccessMonster.com" wrote:

> If Vendor_ID is the linking field in the table tblMain (to give it a name for
> convenience) , linked tables will be properly associated with tblMain.  If
> VendorNumber changes it won't affect the links, which don't involve
> VendorNumber.  Neither will changes to Address or other information affect
> the links.
> 
> If you need to maintain old address information, VendorNumbers, etc. it would
> be best to use related tables.  Otherwise if you create a new vendor record
> in tblMain for a current vendor (because of VendorNumber change, for instance)
> it will be necessary to update all of the links.  You can use append queries
> to create new related tables for VendorNumber, etc.  I'm not sure I
> understand the situation, so I won't go into a lot of detail, but I have
> successfully repaired (normalized) some of my early projects (and buckets of
> data provided by others), and may be able to steer you in the right direction
> if needed.
> 
> 
> Bird Byte wrote:
> >Sorry for not being clear. The primary key is an auto number, and the linking 
> >field. Lets say Vendor_ID for the PK (autonumber), and VendorNumber for the 
> >number assigned to the vendor. 
> >
> >> Are you saying that Vendor ID rather than the autonumber field is the linking
> >> field?
> >[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I'm grateful for any ideas.
> 
> -- 
> Message posted via AccessMonster.com
> http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/access-tablesdbdesign/201004/1
> 
> .
> 
0
Utf
4/14/2010 4:32:01 PM
Reply:

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