Hi !

I am a beginner to databeses, and particulary to MS Access 2003. (althought I
passed the first lessons)
I want to make a small database with possibility to grow up. (max. 100
entries for a table)
I think that in my case the data must be structured like loop into loop.
Like that:

Year:
2000
2001
2002
2003 
etc.
 
   Plant:
   plant_1
   plant_2
   plant_3
   etc.
      
      Generator:
      gen_1
      gen_2
      gen_3
      etc. 

So for every Year it must exist some Power Plants, and for every Power Plant
it must exist some Generators.
I already have made 3 tables: YEAR, PLANT, GENERATOR with data in it.
So, few questions arise:

1. Is my algorithm any good (to consider 3 loops one in another for database)
?
2. If my algorithm is good, how should it be done the relationship between
tables ?  

That is for start. Later i must make queries, input data, some logical
comparison, etc. 
So i must do right from the beginning. I admit that my database must be done
for 8 loops, not 3, but if i understand for 3, the same it will be for 8.

Thanks in advance for help !

dsasorin,

Well, at least one of those tables is wrong and you are missing one, 
possibly two tables.  I am not totally clear what you are doing but I can 
say this... it seems odd that you need a table for years.  Sounds like you 
need a *joiner* table.

tblPowerPlants
pPowerPlantID (PK - Autonumber)
etc...

tblGenerators
gGeneratorID (PK - Autonumber)
etc...

tblPowerPlantGenerators
ppgPowerPlantGeneratorID (PK - Autonumber)
ppgPowerPlantID (FK - Long)
ppgGeneratorID (FK - Long)

tblPowerPlantYears
ppgPowerPlantGeneratorID (FK - Long)
ppgYear (Combo Box with years)

If you explain your purpose a little more it would help to give you a more 
precise answer.  I also don't understand the *looping*, what are the loops 
for?  Out of curiousity, what were the first lessons?

-- 
Gina Whipp
2010 Microsoft MVP (Access)

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors 
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"dsasorin" <u58852@uwe> wrote in message news:a5427d702fbf8@uwe...
Hi !

I am a beginner to databeses, and particulary to MS Access 2003. (althought 
I
passed the first lessons)
I want to make a small database with possibility to grow up. (max. 100
entries for a table)
I think that in my case the data must be structured like loop into loop.
Like that:

Year:
2000
2001
2002
2003
etc.

   Plant:
   plant_1
   plant_2
   plant_3
   etc.

      Generator:
      gen_1
      gen_2
      gen_3
      etc.

So for every Year it must exist some Power Plants, and for every Power Plant
it must exist some Generators.
I already have made 3 tables: YEAR, PLANT, GENERATOR with data in it.
So, few questions arise:

1. Is my algorithm any good (to consider 3 loops one in another for 
database)
?
2. If my algorithm is good, how should it be done the relationship between
tables ?

That is for start. Later i must make queries, input data, some logical
comparison, etc.
So i must do right from the beginning. I admit that my database must be done
for 8 loops, not 3, but if i understand for 3, the same it will be for 8.

Thanks in advance for help ! 

I hope u need data for all tables.

1) You can go thru all tables and data with 1 loop if you do join all tables 
in 1 singel select.

2) If the select is manually written it can be like this:
SELECT *
FROM YEAR,
          PLANT,
          GENERATOR
WHERE PLANT.FK = YEAR PK
     AND GENERATOR FK = PLANT.PK
 
PK = Primary key,  FK = foriegn key 
You will have 1 row for each unik kombination.  

"dsasorin" skrev:

> Hi !
> 
> I am a beginner to databeses, and particulary to MS Access 2003. (althought I
> passed the first lessons)
> I want to make a small database with possibility to grow up. (max. 100
> entries for a table)
> I think that in my case the data must be structured like loop into loop.
> Like that:
> 
> Year:
> 2000
> 2001
> 2002
> 2003 
> etc.
>  
>    Plant:
>    plant_1
>    plant_2
>    plant_3
>    etc.
>       
>       Generator:
>       gen_1
>       gen_2
>       gen_3
>       etc. 
> 
> So for every Year it must exist some Power Plants, and for every Power Plant
> it must exist some Generators.
> I already have made 3 tables: YEAR, PLANT, GENERATOR with data in it.
> So, few questions arise:
> 
> 1. Is my algorithm any good (to consider 3 loops one in another for database)
> ?
> 2. If my algorithm is good, how should it be done the relationship between
> tables ?  
> 
> That is for start. Later i must make queries, input data, some logical
> comparison, etc. 
> So i must do right from the beginning. I admit that my database must be done
> for 8 loops, not 3, but if i understand for 3, the same it will be for 8.
> 
> Thanks in advance for help !
> 
> .
> 

The goal is to make a growing database (a programm) with inputs like
year2010/powerplant 3/generator1/ .... or year 2012/powerplant7/generator3
and so on ...

Then, the programm must have a simple user interface with those inputs. In
the database tables i must asign diferent numbers (points) on specific tasks
of the generator for example, and after a logical comparison and arithmetic
calculations, it must result a number of points. So i need to input/select
new data, to see/select old data, and after that i need a result (number of
points) which coresponds to a certain ANSWER, introduced in the very
beginning of the database (i.e. THE GENERATOR IS GOOD), also a table, i think.


So, the purpose of the database is to find the state of the generator, based
on the actions or the maintenance work made on each generator from database,
and a new one.
The criteria is based on those points and arithmetic calculations.

Thank you for interest.


Gina Whipp wrote:
>dsasorin,
>
>Well, at least one of those tables is wrong and you are missing one, 
>possibly two tables.  I am not totally clear what you are doing but I can 
>say this... it seems odd that you need a table for years.  Sounds like you 
>need a *joiner* table.
>
>tblPowerPlants
>pPowerPlantID (PK - Autonumber)
>etc...
>
>tblGenerators
>gGeneratorID (PK - Autonumber)
>etc...
>
>tblPowerPlantGenerators
>ppgPowerPlantGeneratorID (PK - Autonumber)
>ppgPowerPlantID (FK - Long)
>ppgGeneratorID (FK - Long)
>
>tblPowerPlantYears
>ppgPowerPlantGeneratorID (FK - Long)
>ppgYear (Combo Box with years)
>
>If you explain your purpose a little more it would help to give you a more 
>precise answer.  I also don't understand the *looping*, what are the loops 
>for?  Out of curiousity, what were the first lessons?
>
>Hi !
>
>I am a beginner to databeses, and particulary to MS Access 2003. (althought 
>I
>passed the first lessons)
>I want to make a small database with possibility to grow up. (max. 100
>entries for a table)
>I think that in my case the data must be structured like loop into loop.
>Like that:
>
>Year:
>2000
>2001
>2002
>2003
>etc.
>
>   Plant:
>   plant_1
>   plant_2
>   plant_3
>   etc.
>
>      Generator:
>      gen_1
>      gen_2
>      gen_3
>      etc.
>
>So for every Year it must exist some Power Plants, and for every Power Plant
>it must exist some Generators.
>I already have made 3 tables: YEAR, PLANT, GENERATOR with data in it.
>So, few questions arise:
>
>1. Is my algorithm any good (to consider 3 loops one in another for 
>database)
>?
>2. If my algorithm is good, how should it be done the relationship between
>tables ?
>
>That is for start. Later i must make queries, input data, some logical
>comparison, etc.
>So i must do right from the beginning. I admit that my database must be done
>for 8 loops, not 3, but if i understand for 3, the same it will be for 8.
>
>Thanks in advance for help !

-- 
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/access-tablesdbdesign/201003/1

I forgot that you put me a simple question.  My first lessons were like this
(Access 2003): What is a database ? The components of a database (the objects)
. How to sort data in tables ? and thinks like that ...

Gina Whipp wrote:
>dsasorin,
>
>Well, at least one of those tables is wrong and you are missing one, 
>possibly two tables.  I am not totally clear what you are doing but I can 
>say this... it seems odd that you need a table for years.  Sounds like you 
>need a *joiner* table.
>
>tblPowerPlants
>pPowerPlantID (PK - Autonumber)
>etc...
>
>tblGenerators
>gGeneratorID (PK - Autonumber)
>etc...
>
>tblPowerPlantGenerators
>ppgPowerPlantGeneratorID (PK - Autonumber)
>ppgPowerPlantID (FK - Long)
>ppgGeneratorID (FK - Long)
>
>tblPowerPlantYears
>ppgPowerPlantGeneratorID (FK - Long)
>ppgYear (Combo Box with years)
>
>If you explain your purpose a little more it would help to give you a more 
>precise answer.  I also don't understand the *looping*, what are the loops 
>for?  Out of curiousity, what were the first lessons?
>
>Hi !
>
>I am a beginner to databeses, and particulary to MS Access 2003. (althought 
>I
>passed the first lessons)
>I want to make a small database with possibility to grow up. (max. 100
>entries for a table)
>I think that in my case the data must be structured like loop into loop.
>Like that:
>
>Year:
>2000
>2001
>2002
>2003
>etc.
>
>   Plant:
>   plant_1
>   plant_2
>   plant_3
>   etc.
>
>      Generator:
>      gen_1
>      gen_2
>      gen_3
>      etc.
>
>So for every Year it must exist some Power Plants, and for every Power Plant
>it must exist some Generators.
>I already have made 3 tables: YEAR, PLANT, GENERATOR with data in it.
>So, few questions arise:
>
>1. Is my algorithm any good (to consider 3 loops one in another for 
>database)
>?
>2. If my algorithm is good, how should it be done the relationship between
>tables ?
>
>That is for start. Later i must make queries, input data, some logical
>comparison, etc.
>So i must do right from the beginning. I admit that my database must be done
>for 8 loops, not 3, but if i understand for 3, the same it will be for 8.
>
>Thanks in advance for help !

-- 
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/access-tablesdbdesign/201003/1

Abki, please forgive me, but i don't understand your answer. Maybe because
i'm a beginner in Access. I don't know how to join tables nor to manually
writte a select. Maybe you get a picture for what i want to do, from my other
answer to Gina Whipp. Thank you too.

Abki wrote:
>I hope u need data for all tables.
>
>1) You can go thru all tables and data with 1 loop if you do join all tables 
>in 1 singel select.
>
>2) If the select is manually written it can be like this:
>SELECT *
>FROM YEAR,
>          PLANT,
>          GENERATOR
>WHERE PLANT.FK = YEAR PK
>     AND GENERATOR FK = PLANT.PK
> 
>PK = Primary key,  FK = foriegn key 
>You will have 1 row for each unik kombination.  
>
>"dsasorin" skrev:
>
>> Hi !
>> 
>[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>> 
>> .

-- 
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/access-tablesdbdesign/201003/1

dsasorin,

Okay, that didn't get me the answer needed, so let's try this...

1. Is a Powerplant always going to have the same Generator?
2. Do you put in dates when you enter the activities?
3. Where are the activities entered?
4. Where is the data you do the calculations on, is it in a table?

You are concentrating on the how the data will look instead of how to store 
the data.  It's like buying tires before you buy the vehicle.  You need to 
buy the vehicle first... or build your tables first.

-- 
Gina Whipp
2010 Microsoft MVP (Access)

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors 
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"dsasorin via AccessMonster.com" <u58852@uwe> wrote in message 
news:a5507a74f901c@uwe...
The goal is to make a growing database (a programm) with inputs like
year2010/powerplant 3/generator1/ .... or year 2012/powerplant7/generator3
and so on ...

Then, the programm must have a simple user interface with those inputs. In
the database tables i must asign diferent numbers (points) on specific tasks
of the generator for example, and after a logical comparison and arithmetic
calculations, it must result a number of points. So i need to input/select
new data, to see/select old data, and after that i need a result (number of
points) which coresponds to a certain ANSWER, introduced in the very
beginning of the database (i.e. THE GENERATOR IS GOOD), also a table, i 
think.


So, the purpose of the database is to find the state of the generator, based
on the actions or the maintenance work made on each generator from database,
and a new one.
The criteria is based on those points and arithmetic calculations.

Thank you for interest.


Gina Whipp wrote:
>dsasorin,
>
>Well, at least one of those tables is wrong and you are missing one,
>possibly two tables.  I am not totally clear what you are doing but I can
>say this... it seems odd that you need a table for years.  Sounds like you
>need a *joiner* table.
>
>tblPowerPlants
>pPowerPlantID (PK - Autonumber)
>etc...
>
>tblGenerators
>gGeneratorID (PK - Autonumber)
>etc...
>
>tblPowerPlantGenerators
>ppgPowerPlantGeneratorID (PK - Autonumber)
>ppgPowerPlantID (FK - Long)
>ppgGeneratorID (FK - Long)
>
>tblPowerPlantYears
>ppgPowerPlantGeneratorID (FK - Long)
>ppgYear (Combo Box with years)
>
>If you explain your purpose a little more it would help to give you a more
>precise answer.  I also don't understand the *looping*, what are the loops
>for?  Out of curiousity, what were the first lessons?
>
>Hi !
>
>I am a beginner to databeses, and particulary to MS Access 2003. (althought
>I
>passed the first lessons)
>I want to make a small database with possibility to grow up. (max. 100
>entries for a table)
>I think that in my case the data must be structured like loop into loop.
>Like that:
>
>Year:
>2000
>2001
>2002
>2003
>etc.
>
>   Plant:
>   plant_1
>   plant_2
>   plant_3
>   etc.
>
>      Generator:
>      gen_1
>      gen_2
>      gen_3
>      etc.
>
>So for every Year it must exist some Power Plants, and for every Power 
>Plant
>it must exist some Generators.
>I already have made 3 tables: YEAR, PLANT, GENERATOR with data in it.
>So, few questions arise:
>
>1. Is my algorithm any good (to consider 3 loops one in another for
>database)
>?
>2. If my algorithm is good, how should it be done the relationship between
>tables ?
>
>That is for start. Later i must make queries, input data, some logical
>comparison, etc.
>So i must do right from the beginning. I admit that my database must be 
>done
>for 8 loops, not 3, but if i understand for 3, the same it will be for 8.
>
>Thanks in advance for help !

-- 
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/access-tablesdbdesign/201003/1 

dsasorin,

Oh okay.. was just curious.  But it is interesting that you didn't mention 
Data Normalization and Data Modeling, do they teach that?

-- 
Gina Whipp
2010 Microsoft MVP (Access)

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors 
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"dsasorin via AccessMonster.com" <u58852@uwe> wrote in message 
news:a55094019f828@uwe...
I forgot that you put me a simple question.  My first lessons were like this
(Access 2003): What is a database ? The components of a database (the 
objects)
 How to sort data in tables ? and thinks like that ...

Gina Whipp wrote:
>dsasorin,
>
>Well, at least one of those tables is wrong and you are missing one,
>possibly two tables.  I am not totally clear what you are doing but I can
>say this... it seems odd that you need a table for years.  Sounds like you
>need a *joiner* table.
>
>tblPowerPlants
>pPowerPlantID (PK - Autonumber)
>etc...
>
>tblGenerators
>gGeneratorID (PK - Autonumber)
>etc...
>
>tblPowerPlantGenerators
>ppgPowerPlantGeneratorID (PK - Autonumber)
>ppgPowerPlantID (FK - Long)
>ppgGeneratorID (FK - Long)
>
>tblPowerPlantYears
>ppgPowerPlantGeneratorID (FK - Long)
>ppgYear (Combo Box with years)
>
>If you explain your purpose a little more it would help to give you a more
>precise answer.  I also don't understand the *looping*, what are the loops
>for?  Out of curiousity, what were the first lessons?
>
>Hi !
>
>I am a beginner to databeses, and particulary to MS Access 2003. (althought
>I
>passed the first lessons)
>I want to make a small database with possibility to grow up. (max. 100
>entries for a table)
>I think that in my case the data must be structured like loop into loop.
>Like that:
>
>Year:
>2000
>2001
>2002
>2003
>etc.
>
>   Plant:
>   plant_1
>   plant_2
>   plant_3
>   etc.
>
>      Generator:
>      gen_1
>      gen_2
>      gen_3
>      etc.
>
>So for every Year it must exist some Power Plants, and for every Power 
>Plant
>it must exist some Generators.
>I already have made 3 tables: YEAR, PLANT, GENERATOR with data in it.
>So, few questions arise:
>
>1. Is my algorithm any good (to consider 3 loops one in another for
>database)
>?
>2. If my algorithm is good, how should it be done the relationship between
>tables ?
>
>That is for start. Later i must make queries, input data, some logical
>comparison, etc.
>So i must do right from the beginning. I admit that my database must be 
>done
>for 8 loops, not 3, but if i understand for 3, the same it will be for 8.
>
>Thanks in advance for help !

-- 
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/access-tablesdbdesign/201003/1 

Gina, 

More from my EE background than my (much less than yours) database 
background,  I think that the generators are handled as one-of-a-kind items, 
not a list of types that would get used multiple times.     Each 
instance/installation  of a  "generator" is typically a $xxx,xxx,xxx.xx 
multi-year construction project.    If so, then "Generator #1" is just half 
of the name given to a particular generator.  The full name might be Plant 
#5-generator #1    If that were true, IMHO a junction table would not be 
appropriate. 

-  -  -  

In order to have a good database, or to explain enough to us to help, you 
are going to have to start with deciding upon what the entities are that you 
are going to database, and what the mission that you want it to accomplish 
is.  Do this without using any database terminology.     


IF (and I emphasize IF, because we don't know that) you main mission were to 
track and completed maintenance, then instance of required-then-completed 
maintenance would be your main table.   In that case the year and or date 
would be merely a field,     If my guess address to Gina were right, you 
would probably have a table with listings of your individual generators.  The 
plant # might be just half of the name of that generator, or an attribute of 
that generator.  

Again, these are just guesses.  You'll have to tell us more to get a real 
answer. 

Hope that helps a little.   

Ooops.  The second part was supposed to be addressed to the OP :   


"Fred" wrote:

> Gina, 
> 
> More from my EE background than my (much less than yours) database 
> background,  I think that the generators are handled as one-of-a-kind items, 
> not a list of types that would get used multiple times.     Each 
> instance/installation  of a  "generator" is typically a $xxx,xxx,xxx.xx 
> multi-year construction project.    If so, then "Generator #1" is just half 
> of the name given to a particular generator.  The full name might be Plant 
> #5-generator #1    If that were true, IMHO a junction table would not be 
> appropriate. 
> 
> -  -  -  
> 

To: Dsasorin: 

> In order to have a good database, or to explain enough to us to help, you 
> are going to have to start with deciding upon what the entities are that you 
> are going to database, and what the mission that you want it to accomplish 
> is.  Do this without using any database terminology.     
> 
> 
> IF (and I emphasize IF, because we don't know that) you main mission were to 
> track and completed maintenance, then instance of required-then-completed 
> maintenance would be your main table.   In that case the year and or date 
> would be merely a field,     If my guess address to Gina were right, you 
> would probably have a table with listings of your individual generators.  The 
> plant # might be just half of the name of that generator, or an attribute of 
> that generator.  
> 
> Again, these are just guesses.  You'll have to tell us more to get a real 
> answer. 
> 
> Hope that helps a little.   
> 
> 
> 
> 

Fred,

Thanks for explaining that... now if I could just the OP to explain more 
we'd be set!

-- 
Gina Whipp
2010 Microsoft MVP (Access)

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors 
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

"Fred" <Fred@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:4A691DC2-D67D-422C-A28C-5A4C1A52A9CB@microsoft.com...
Gina,

More from my EE background than my (much less than yours) database
background,  I think that the generators are handled as one-of-a-kind items,
not a list of types that would get used multiple times.     Each
instance/installation  of a  "generator" is typically a $xxx,xxx,xxx.xx
multi-year construction project.    If so, then "Generator #1" is just half
of the name given to a particular generator.  The full name might be Plant
#5-generator #1    If that were true, IMHO a junction table would not be
appropriate.

-  -  -

In order to have a good database, or to explain enough to us to help, you
are going to have to start with deciding upon what the entities are that you
are going to database, and what the mission that you want it to accomplish
is.  Do this without using any database terminology.


IF (and I emphasize IF, because we don't know that) you main mission were to
track and completed maintenance, then instance of required-then-completed
maintenance would be your main table.   In that case the year and or date
would be merely a field,     If my guess address to Gina were right, you
would probably have a table with listings of your individual generators. 
The
plant # might be just half of the name of that generator, or an attribute of
that generator.

Again, these are just guesses.  You'll have to tell us more to get a real
answer.

Hope that helps a little.